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Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami Relief Drive

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 08:22:27 AM EST
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This is the smartest move yet by Bush in trying to recover from the negative perception of his early non-action to the Tsunami crisis - he has selected his father (former President Bush) and former President Bill Clinton to spearhead the funds drive for the Tsunami relief effort. Clinton had already been acting on his own with Hillary to raise funds. Thus, by officially selecting him to work for the Administration on this, Bush gets the credit and removes the comparison that would otherwise have resulted.

The Bush Adminstration still needs to get its messages straight, however. While Bush makes an announcement in the U.S. that cash is most needed, as opposed to goods or services, Colin Powell announces in Thailand that the U.S. doesn't need to give more money beause enough has already been received.

Secretary of State Colin Powell said Monday the relief effort for countries devastated by the tsunami was going "exceptionally well" and he sees no immediate need for more U.S. governmental money.

Right hand, meet left hand.

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    Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami Relief Drive | 56 comments (56 topical)
    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 08:44:35 AM EST
    What negative perception? Yours? I know I keep repeating this LBJ joke, but it so pertains around here:
    If I walked across the Potomac the headlines would read: President can't swim!
    I wonder if Kofi has the same perception problem in the MSM and Liberal circles from not leaving his Aspen ski vacation for three days? -C

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#2)
    by Darryl Pearce on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 08:48:08 AM EST
    "Heh, heh, heh," chortled the president. "If this succeeds, Rove said I could praise dad. If this tanks, Rove said I could blame Clinton. Rove's some kind of a... super-genius."

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 09:18:03 AM EST
    When you factor in the cost of running the MEFs and the carrier battle groups (aviation fuel, personnel, equipment) in with the 350 million provided by the tax payers, I tend to agree that the US gov't have given enough. It is more important to keep the supplies from sitting on the airpot ramps from rotting and getting them out there. I have donated and will donate more. Apples and oranges.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 09:20:10 AM EST
    Except for Cliff's idea of being able to blame Clinton if things suddenly went south (which wouldn't work), I fail to see how Bush associatinghimself in anyway with Billy is good for Bush. It won't please Bush's supporters or Clinton's detractors, and the people who think well of Bubba won't give Bush any credit for the decision (as shown here).

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 09:39:20 AM EST
    This is a good P.R. move for the U.S., not just Bush. It removes politics from the aid

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 10:06:55 AM EST
    I remember LBJ. GWB is no LBJ.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 10:21:26 AM EST
    Oh man, do I wish for those halcyon days of the Clinton era when no one ever criticized the president for anything. Eh, Cliff?

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 10:55:54 AM EST
    Ernesto, That's totally different, Clinton had sex with an intern! And not just any intern, Ernesto. He had sex with a White House intern. And he lied about it. He lied Ernesto. He was a lying philanderer. Has Bush ever lied about sex? Not that I know of. So Bush likes to be a little deceptive about the US budget deficit, big deal!! So Bush wants to use the outdated projection of a $521 billion deficit, rather than last year's actual shortfall of $413 billion, so that he can say he has already reduced the shortfall by about $100 billion and claim victory if the deficit falls to just $260 billion. Big deal! At least he's not having sex with an intern! So Bush chooses to just not include in the federal budget some things that are really expensive, namely the cost of the Iraq war, operations in Afghanistan, and tax cuts, just because, well, doing it that way makes it look like we've accomplished deficit reduction without us having to accomplish any actual deficit reduction. At least he didn't lie about philandering! So Bush chooses not to count the $2 trillion transition cost of Social Security privatization, because he thinks eventually the government might get the money back, (which is a bit like choosing not to count the cost of your new ferrari because eventually you might make more money by getting to work faster.) At least he didn't have sex with an intern, Ernesto. Clinton did it with an intern and lied about it. AND his wife thinks that women should be paid the same as men!

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#9)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 11:03:04 AM EST
    Yeah, Clinton lied. He sure did. I was only saying that it's a good thing that we all had the restraint and courtesy not to pester him endlessly about it, OK?

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 11:55:06 AM EST
    Did you notice the continuing attempt to rewrite history as Bush announced that our "initial contribution" was $350 million?

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 12:11:21 PM EST
    thank god for clinton

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 12:16:01 PM EST
    So whats new? Bush and the clinton are good friends both are part of the ruling class, one is set in stone as a member of the old and loved oligarcheies and the other is a-want-to-be member. Both love Mecha and both love power and the peoples of the world and the money. Both hate you for knowing that fact and both are as sinister as can be; but both are still the ruling class and you have no say in the minds of that class of total corruption of our once great nation. Hey both are just checking out the damage to the enslaved and to see how long before the boys can get the little guys back to work helping this system make big bucks.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 01:11:07 PM EST
    Pudentilla thinks the appointment indicates that the aristocrats have come out of their ideological closet.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#14)
    by desertswine on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 01:21:48 PM EST
    Bush I and Clinton? My only question is when the hell did Shemp die?

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 01:27:33 PM EST
    justpaul - You people are so obsessed it's funny. Did you notice that you read Anon and wrote Clinton? I wasn't trying to blame anyone (well, all you you, but whatever) in particular and I actually found something I agreed with Kofi on - you can run your organization from almost anywhere with internet and phone service. Aspen or Crawford. -C

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 01:34:31 PM EST
    and to see how long before the boys can get the little guys back to work helping this system make big bucks.
    Fred may be on to something here. Aren't most of our clothes and plastic trinkets made in this part of the world? I can't help but be so cynical to think all the corporate elite (and their gov't stooges) are only concerned with getting the sweat shops up and running.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 01:38:31 PM EST
    Kdog: Yeah, and it also provinds work for thousands of people. Maybe they should hold out for better work. wouldn't buying some of those plastic trinkets create demand and therefore help with the recovery?

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 02:14:06 PM EST
    Some people never change: "Secretary of State Colin Powell said Monday the relief effort was going "exceptionally well" "Relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent." (results of his My Lai investigation) Don't even ask about how things are going since he dropped his pants at the UN, disgracing the nation, the services, and giving a lesson in servility hardly matched in the annals of history. --

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 02:14:44 PM EST
    Cliff, Sorry for the mistake. My bad. Don't know what you mean by "you people" though. There aren't very many groups that would have me as a member, and I certainly don't fit firmly into either mainstream idealogical camp. But whatever makes you happy. I still don't see how Bush working with Clinton helps Bush in the eyes of those who support him or those who oppose him.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 02:43:14 PM EST
    wile e might be the only person i have ever met who could think of a sweatshop (working 6 or 7 days a week, 16 or 18 hours a day for what, $6 a day? if that?) and have the next thing out of his (metaphorical) mouth be, 'at least they have jobs!'. where are we going? and why are we in this handbasket?

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 05:44:50 PM EST
    justpaul - No biggie. Personally I blame TL's 20th century editing and proofreading system. Cough. I cannot really imagine B/I and C working together without having to have a big slap fight first. -C

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 06:15:05 PM EST
    Kelite: I didn's say its a good or even desirable job. Maybe we should export more of our jobs overseas and then they will be getting better jobs. In a perfect world everybody will have jobs they want and will make lots of money, but that will never happen. I bet if you ask any of those people now scratching by in the aftermath, waiting for the next helo load of food what they would rather be doing, they would say they would like to be working. Maybe you should boycott Indonesian and Sri Lankan goods. That'll teach em to not work there.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 06:18:37 PM EST
    Kelite: here ya go a link for you to read. trade is better than Aid. Austrialian news article.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#24)
    by Andreas on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 11:27:47 PM EST
    It would have been far more appropriate if Clinton and the senior Bush had been appealing for greater contributions from the US government, rather than from the American people. It is quite likely that, behind the scenes, that is precisely what they were doing. Among the more experienced representatives of the American corporate elite—among whom these two must be counted—the younger Bush’s performance over the last week is regarded as a foreign policy blunder that only compounds the disaster in Iraq, undermining the position of US imperialism in the world. It may yet prove to be a political blow at home as well, especially if the number of American victims of the tsunami should grow larger. Secretary of State Powell, speaking with reporters aboard his plane en route to Bangkok, Thailand, the first stop in his tour of the disaster zone, revealed that between 4,000 and 5,000 American citizens are unaccounted for in the countries hit by the earthquake and tidal waves, although only 15 are confirmed dead.
    South Asia disaster appeal: White House tries to cover up Bush’s moment of truth By Patrick Martin, 4 January 2005

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Mon Jan 03, 2005 at 11:40:01 PM EST
    Maybe we should export more of our jobs overseas and then they will be getting better jobs. Wile E...in case you didn't know...India is getting all our techie jobs being outsourced now. In fact one of the Americans that died in the tsunami was over there training them how to do our tech jobs. Meanwhile, I guess I don't need to send any donations since I bought a whole lot of plastic trinkets over the Christmas holiday. Hey, I wonder if I could write that off on my tax return?

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 03:05:31 AM EST
    Ernie: All of our tech jobs? Link it. No where else but India? I would say yes you should be able to write off your christmas trinkets but it being an evil christian holiday, that would be exclusive. Not how you say- inclusive. Andreas:
    It would have been far more appropriate if Clinton and the senior Bush had been appealing for greater contributions from the US government, rather than from the American people.
    Isn't donating money from the US gov't really taking money from the US taxpayer?

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#27)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 03:43:33 AM EST
    Link for Wile. Another article in The Economic Times quoted Kathy Brittain White as warning that "If something is not done, in 10 years every technology job [in the US] will be overseas." White is the former Chief Information Officer of Cardinal Health, Inc., and was named one of Forbes Magazine's Top 25 American Businesswomen in 2001.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 03:50:35 AM EST
    Isn't donating money from the US gov't really taking money from the US taxpayer? Hey, it's about time Bush did something with my tax dollars besides paying for the bombing of countries on the Neocon hit list.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:24:03 AM EST
    Call me a commie Wile, but a Malaysian worker making $6 a day manufacturing $200 Air Jordans deserves a bigger piece of the pie than $6 a day. That's just what I call being a human being with a sense of decency. Thank god for collective bargaining, eh?

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:49:17 AM EST
    Kdog: Ah, the problem is- I am guessing you see the pie as one size. In order for one person to get a bigger slice, the other slices must get smaller. I see the pie as growing. If you are will to pay $200 for Air Jordans, then go for it. If no one buy Air Jordans then that line and this guys job goes by the wayside. Ernie: Is that bad? I would rather give trade than aid. I guess if we stopped outsourcing jobs, these guys in India can go back to tyedying t-shirts that shrink too fast. You are free to give more of your tax money if you wish. I doubt the gov't will turn it down. I would rather donate money thru a charity. More will get to the victims.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:59:07 AM EST
    Obviously Wile. I think Nike's CEO could give up a sliver of his billion dollar slice, and add to the Malaysians 2190.00 a year slice. Is that not fair, just, and right?

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:01:56 AM EST
    Maybe you should boycott Indonesian and Sri Lankan goods. That'll teach em to not work there. i do boycott goods manufactured and sold by companies who use sweatshop labor. and hopefully, eventually, it will teach them not to use sweatshop tactics. i don't think the right answer is to say, 'at least they have a job'. a job that barely keeps you alive by paying just enough to subsist on while demanding so much of your time that looking for another job or educating yourself is impossible is a job i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. come to think of it, that's why i boycott wal-mart et al too...

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:33:40 AM EST
    Kdog: Ask Him. If he want to voluntarily give it up, then sure. The gov't confiscating it is not giving it up. Kelite: good job. I try not to buy Chinese. Pretty tough.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:39:03 AM EST
    Yes Wile, that is the million dollar question. How does Nike's CEO sleep at night I often wonder? That's why I believe in a minimum wage, labor laws and regulations. And that's why Nike manufacturers their product in Malaysia, where no such safeguards exist. A true free market would work if greed did not exist, but it does. Believe me , I wish it didn't.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:41:37 AM EST
    Before the New Deal, those Malaysian workers were from NY, Chicago, etc. I believe the US should not trade or do business with any country w/o a minimum wage or fair labor standards.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#36)
    by pigwiggle on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:47:55 AM EST
    I’m interested in what you folks think Chinese or Indonesian ‘sweatshop’ workers would otherwise be doing. These kinds of jobs are undesirable by your standards, however it feeds the kids and pays the bills. If say Nike were to pay their workers more, the product would be more expensive and they would sell fewer units. Fewer units to make translates into fewer employees. Corporations strike a balance between price and quantity to maximize their bottom line, if you raise labor costs jobs will invariably get cut. I imagine for every one of you that boycotts a given company there are several more who would refuse to buy or otherwise could not afford a product produced with labor receiving an elevated wage. If our disparate living standards, American and Chinese for example, is the issue you can level them by simply giving poor Chinese your discretionary dollars.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#37)
    by pigwiggle on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:03:48 AM EST
    Minimum wage is a mirage, affluence cannot be mandated. If you raise labor costs product costs will also increase. Everyone’s cost of living increases and the wage increase becomes meaningless. For this to translate into anything other than simple inflation, cost caps or profit caps would also need to accompany wage increases. The heart of the matter is profit. Some of you folks think they are too high and should be allocated to wage increases. However, I think competition pressures have forced most companies into razor thin profit margins. Regulating these would be a disaster. And before you start quoting CEO salaries to me, realize that if every dollar these folks made was distributed to their labor it would only increase average salaries by a few dollars a year. For example, if GE were to redistribute it’s CEOs salary it would result in a $9.80 per year raise for every GE employee.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#38)
    by soccerdad on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:26:44 AM EST
    Minimum wage is a mirage, affluence cannot be mandated. If you raise labor costs product costs will also increase. Everyone’s cost of living increases and the wage increase becomes meaningless. I don't believe this is true. There is not a one-to-one correspondence.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#39)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:33:59 AM EST
    "I've said it a million times, and I'll say it again, The most dangerous phrases in our society are "There ought to be a law" OR "Somebody ought to do something"." Posted by: kdog on January 4, 2005 08:28 AM "That's why I believe in a minimum wage, labor laws and regulations." Posted by kdog at January 4, 2005 10:39 AM kdog, you believe in whatever serves you.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:38:22 AM EST
    I would say Pigwiggle has it pretty much correct. Soccerdad: got an example of what you think is true? Kdog: Greed keeps Socialism and any other ism from working. Nice to see that you think a free market is feasable. There are alot of countries you don't do business with.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:38:31 AM EST
    Labor makes up such a small part of the $200 Air Jordan sticker price, for example. The majority goes to the CEO, Michael Jordan, ad execs, media outlets, etc. It may be naive or idealist, but I feel the guy stiching the shoes deserves more of that $200 list price than say the $0.001 he is getting.
    If you raise labor costs product costs will also increase
    McDonald's turns enough profit every year to pay their burger flippers more without raising the price of a Big Mac. Same with Nike. These aren't companies with razor thin margins or year end losses. Instead of a 7 figure bonus to an exec, give the toilers a raise. How much does one person need? I feel it's also good business to do so, there isn't a more unproductive worker in the world than one who feels exploited. I know I'd work harder if I was getting a bigger slice of the pie. Bigger may be a poor choice of words, fairer is better.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:54:37 AM EST
    unnamed one, a pleasure as always. I said they were dangerous terms, but sometimes necessary (desperate times call for desperate measures). Do you really want to go back to the labor conditions of the early 1900's? Labor laws wouldn't be necessary if not for the greed of the "haves and the have-mores". Common decency, unfortunately, isn't enough.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#43)
    by pigwiggle on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:54:47 AM EST
    SD- “I don't believe this is true. There is not a one-to-one correspondence.” Most certainly there isn’t. The market is far more complicates; production costs, annual demand trends, advertising, product trends, ect. However, the market is extremely fluid and when competition pressures are working correctly we all benefit from affordable products while workers benefit from expanding business. It is dubious that business will statically absorb additional costs by reducing profits. I think a better model would be to add a premium to products manufactured by high wage employees and market them accordingly. Consumers will buy the provenance as well as the product; so-called fair wage products. kdog- “The majority goes to the CEO, Michael Jordan, ad execs, media outlets, etc.” These are all targeted at increasing sales. “McDonald's turns enough profit every year to pay their burger flippers more without raising the price of a Big Mac. Same with Nike.” They have a duty to their shareholders to do just this. Reducing investment capital also has job cost, albeit future jobs.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:00:56 AM EST
    Wile, If we had the guts to give China (or any country) an ultimatum, fair labor practices or no trade, I think working conditions would improve over there right quick. I agree greed kills all "isms", that's why I think our system is the best yet...a free, yet regulated, market. Nothings perfect that involves people. We just can't trust business to do the right thing because of human greed. How many rivers got polluted to hell before enviromental regulations? A greedy will business owner will always dump his waste in a river to save a buck, history has shown us.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#45)
    by soccerdad on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:07:49 AM EST
    Wilie, Giving a minimum wage increase to a small part of the work force will be distributed out through a much greater part of the economy. Will it raise prices, yes. What I'm saying is that the minimum wage worker will still be better off. In other words lets say he gets $1/hr raise. This will ripple through the economy, with many more people feeling the result of the increase thereby decreasing its effect on an individual. The increased cost incurred by that minimum wage worker will be less than $1/hr. My recollection from the studies I saw, it would be substantially less. I'll have to try and find that info. Anyway thats the line of thought

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:10:53 AM EST
    this is why i vote with my dollar - companies should treat their employees like they are human. companies that don't do that don't get my money. and if they are willing to treat people like they are less than human to support their bottom line, then they are truly depraved and will have my prayers (but not my money). let me ask you this - if i won the loterry, and promptly bought $100 million worth of nike products, do you think they would improve the working environment of their factories overseas? maybe give some workers a raise or a day off? no way! the big wigs and shareholders would gleefully roll around in all of that glorious money and none of it would ever 'trickle down' to their factories around the world. no profit is ever enough profit, no money is ever enough money, no cut in profit is ever worthwhile.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:25:34 AM EST
    kdog My observation stands, you believe in what ever serves you personally. I believe that's a good example of the label you lefties love to throw at conservatives; hypocrite. Don't be hypocritical and others won't point it out to you, however displeasureable is to you. Common decency, unfortunately, isn't enough. Ah, we're in agreement. Common decency is not always enough. For you, common decency means paying workers a reasonable wage. Fair enough. To me, common decency means not driving impaired, be it drugs or alcahol. I think we're mixing threads/topics here...

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#48)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:53:08 AM EST
    that was me at 12:25pm

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#49)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:58:37 AM EST
    Well said kelite. I can't understand the "too much is not enough mentality". "I find it difficult to live in a world where some die young and unhappy from working to much and consuming to little, and others die young and unhappy from consuming to much and working to little." unnamed one...fair enough. But driving impaired MAY hurt someone, not paying a reasonable wage DOES hurt someone everytime, a subtle difference.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 12:00:31 PM EST
    I prefer Jimmy! Jimmy could do it all by himself!

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#51)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 12:19:53 PM EST
    kdog Ugh. Your post was about common decency. Now you want to change the discussion to some rationalization based on "hurt." Why not just grow up and admit that you drive impaired and support driving impaired because, regardless of the common indecency of the act, or any other reason, selfishly, you want to drive impaired. And stop rationalizing your position.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 12:45:15 PM EST
    I don't drive impaired, what gave you that impression? That I think our DUI laws make no sense?

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#53)
    by Andreas on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 12:45:28 PM EST
    Wile E. Coyote asked "Isn't donating money from the US gov't really taking money from the US taxpayer?" The program of the Socialist Equality Party includes increasing taxes for the rich and lowering taxes for the vast majority of the population in the US. Yes, the government should take the money from Bill Gates, John Kerry, Kenneth Lay etc. and their families and use that to help the people.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#54)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 01:09:57 PM EST
    I don't drive impaired, what gave you that impression? Wow, I appologize. I was 100% out of line. What gave me that impression? You have spent so much time defending your pot smoking and claiming it doesn't impair driving skills as much as alcahol, old people and/or legal drugs, whatever, etc., that it seemed incongruous to me that you would never get behind the wheel with a "buzz" on. However, if you are saying that you don't ever drive with a buzz, then I am deeply sorry. I should not have made the comment. Please accept my appology.

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#55)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 01:34:27 PM EST
    unnamed, have you bothered to read the DOT reports on impairment and pot smoking or are you determining under the influence means impaired based on your own scientific studies?

    Re: Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami (none / 0) (#56)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 01:47:56 PM EST
    Jlvngstn I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Perhaps you could "bother" to make your point clear?

    Bush Picks His Dad and Clinton to Lead Tsunami Relief Drive | 56 comments (56 topical)