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Do Cities Need Sheriffs?

by TChris

There's a new Sheriff in town. Victor Hill was just elected to the post in Clayton County, Georgia, and he's bringing a bit of paranoia with him.

He adds a dimension to the definition of messiah complex; on his first day in office, he abruptly fired more than two dozen employees and posted snipers on the roof of the sheriff's department to make sure none objected too strenuously as they were escorted from the building.

In addition to the snipers, Hill insists on having armed guards at his home and office. He thinks he might be the target of assassins -- a strange fear for a man only recently elected to his job.

Fortunately, a judge ordered Hill to reinstate the fired employees, but the bizarre incident raises a larger question about the usefulness of sheriffs in urban society.

Hill's despotism helps make the case that metropolitan counties have no need for sheriff's offices. They waste taxpayer funds; they duplicate services; and, all too frequently, they give a badge and a gun to people who should have neither.

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    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#1)
    by desertswine on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 07:38:27 AM EST
    His fears of asassination might not be so unfounded as, I think, the sherrif of a neighboring county was murdered under similar circumstances a couple of years back. This is not to say he's right.

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#2)
    by wishful on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 07:46:05 AM EST
    The roof-top snipers are a nice touch.

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#3)
    by wishful on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 07:50:31 AM EST
    It just cries out for comment. The title of the previous post is "Stupid Criminal of the Week". I suppose it would take up too much bandwidth or it would be too difficult to decide among the many possibilities to have a recurring title, "Stupid Official of the Week". Or maybe it would just be too irreverent.

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 07:55:02 AM EST
    Cities don't need sheriffs, that's what the chief is police is about; but the unincorporated areas surrounding urban areas do require a sheriff's department for law enforcement. Whether the local sheriff is corrupt or inefficient is a matter for the voters or the state governor who has the power to remove and replace the sheriff.

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 08:08:02 AM EST
    In Georgia cities, the Sherrif's Dept. is in charge of the County Jails. They seem to have a great deal of Corruption (The Sherrif-elect Brown of neighboring Dekalb Co. was assinated a couple of years back when he came into office promising to end corruption in the Jails and the bonding agencies), acting like private fiefdoms.

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 08:31:21 AM EST
    New Orleans has TWO sherrifs, one criminal (runs the jail), the other civil.

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 08:47:26 AM EST
    Interesting what you chose to leave out. The new Sheriff is black and was firing white officers to hire black officers.
    Sheriff Hill was among a spate of black candidates elected last year in the county, which was once dominated by rural whites. The fired employees included four of the highest-ranking officers, all of them white. Sheriff Hill told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution that their replacements would be black.
    Look at me, quoting the NYT. Ich. FYI, all sheriffs hire their cronies, it's just that most are more discreet about it. :-) -C

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 08:49:36 AM EST
    I have oftened wondered what the Sheriffs in my county do. We have a county police dept., the state troopers working the parkways, what do the sheriffs do, if anything?

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#9)
    by cp on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 08:56:39 AM EST
    the county sheriffs go back to our english ancestory, and practically every locality has one. in urban areas, where there is a police dept., their main jobs are to attend to the jails and serve various papers, civil and criminal. as elected officials, they aren't actually required to have any formal training or experience. nor, are they required to be the brightest bulbs in the box. around these here parts, the sheriff and his deputies are, for the most part, local good old boys, wannabe state troopers, or even wannabe local police officers. actually, it was the spotsylvania sheriff's dept. that screwed up the lisk/silva murders several years ago. the fbi agent in charge of that investigation told me that, as a result of the sheriff dept.'s failure to secure both crime scenes, whatever forensic evidence may have been there was tainted. this goes back to their historically mediocre training, just enough to get their police license, and be able to carry a weapon. do we still need them? well, in most urban areas, with a police dept., probably not. but, there are still lots of rural areas that can't afford a police dept., and depend on the sheriff.

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#10)
    by cp on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 09:02:02 AM EST
    cliff, it's interesting what you chose to leave out as well. that would be the part of the article that quoted a black city council member as being livid about this guy's actions. it's nice to know that stupidity transcends gender/racial boundries!

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Patrick on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 09:19:27 AM EST
    Sheriff's Department's in Califoria are required by law to provide court security, service of civil papers and a jail (Which can be privatized with oversight). Unlike some of the descriptions previously, Sheriff's Deputies in California have to have exactly the same training as any other peace officer in the state. With the exception of San Francisco County all other California counties have Sheriff's Deputies on patrol as well as providing lae enforcement in contract cities. SF County has no unicorporated area within the county, therefore the sheriff there has no real patrol division. Perhaps in some BFE counties in rural american it's still like the movies, but I'd bet more often than not the local deputies are just as competent as the local police, and in some case probably more.

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 09:40:57 AM EST
    cp - the point of the story as well as the post by TL is the Sheriff's ego. Cliff's response is a factual account of the sheriff's actions. The councilmans opinion isn't an integral part of the story. I know it's sport to make fun of Cliff, and he's a big boy who doesn't need me to defend him, but many people dislike the messenger so much they have knee jerk responses to the messages.

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#13)
    by cp on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 10:26:27 AM EST
    true liberal, the point of cliff's post was that it was a black sheriff, firing white police deputies, and citing part of the story that tl neglected to. my point was that he is guilty of the failure to fully disclose. the councilman's opinion is also fact, as well as his race. while i may not care for the messenger, as long as the message isn't tainted, i don't have a problem. by failing to include all pertinent sections, cliff tainted the message. actually, i have no opinion on cliff personally, since i've never met him.

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 10:33:11 AM EST
    As I pointed out, most of the media outlets that print the AP report about this omit three key paragraphs describing what Cliff mentioned: the black sheriff fired white officers to hire black officers. Now, why would that be? Here let's try this test:
    the white sheriff fired black officers to hire white officers
    ("liberal" outrage, Jesse Jackson books flight, Al Sharpton leads marches, etc. etc.)
    the black sheriff fired white officers to hire black officers
    ("liberals": well, see, it's like this...)

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 12:28:40 PM EST
    Gee, do you think a paranoid black sheriff in Georgia might fear his white officers more than blacks? WHAT an amazing coincidence. I agree it's an important fact of this case, but to focus on 'liberal bias' solely is to ignore a rather significant history in Georgia. Sheriffs, even in California, are often closer to hoodlums than other law officers-- primarily, in my opinion, because they don't live in the areas they patrol. LAPD has its problem officers; but LAPD often live near their jobs, while the Sheriffs drive in from Riverside. Leaves them aliens in the communities they serve. --

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 01:21:26 PM EST
    cp - Actually, I'm a h*lluva nice guy. Just the fellow you want to know when a tree's down in the front yard or your daughter has to unload a bunch of the less popular Brownie cookies. :-) The whole story is quite fascinating - the city council is taking away the sheriff's forensic group (and some other stuff) b/c he's apparently less than competant. What struck me was the missing color attribution, the lack of a link to the story (I had just happened to read it), etc. Plus it's a heck of a lot more interesting to think about. I'm trying to imagine a female sheriff firing all the deputies and hiring her friends.... (This is basically what happens here when we rotate one fat man for another in the sheriff's office. :-) -C

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#17)
    by cp on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 01:45:35 PM EST
    actually, i had read about this, before i saw it on here. the story that i read had all the pertinent details, so i was already aware of them. funny that you should mention a female sheriff cliff. richmond has one, also black, with a majority black city council and a black mayor. she has been in trouble, not for firing people, but for mis-use of city funds. seems her expense accounts contained some "questionable" items for reimbursement. the black members of city council were just as irked as the white ones. graft and corruption know no boundries. on the other hand, this sheriff also contends that his office is not part of the city civil service, everyone serves at his pleasure. sort of like the mayor or president, kind of. if he is correct, and i don't know that he is or isn't, than it doesn't really matter what skin tone those fired were, he would be within his rights to staff his office with people he felt comfortable with. does it look good? not really, but i get the impression pr isn't really his forte. out of curiousity, which girl scout cookies are your favorite? i'm a thin mint kinda guy myself. lol

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:07:59 PM EST
    CP, you beat me to it and are dead with your retort to truelib. Paranoid, egocentric and discriminating, this guy reminds me of Daryl Gates.

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:19:06 PM EST
    I am totally all over the coconut ones. Though my wife does make an "Elvis Pie" using thin mint cookies and home-made strawberry ice-cream. -C

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 09:06:58 AM EST
    Response to Cliff and others: The fact the Victor Hill is black has nothing to do with the issue and the officers that he dismissed were not all white...more than a dozen were black. (check your facts). The issue at hand should be that these officers work for the interest of the people and not the sheriff; that often times, even incumbent sheriffs dismiss deputies that don't support their re-election campaign; that deputies can have their careers ended based on the mood of the elected official. Race has nothing to do with this...this is a political flaw in the system it self.

    Re: Do Cities Need Sheriffs? (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jan 11, 2005 at 09:36:59 AM EST
    YES IN GEORGIA A SHERIFF HAS THE ABILITY TO HIRE AND FIRE AS HE SEES FIT. BUT, IF THEY ABIDE BY THE COUNTY PERSONEL POLICIES(I.E.)SICK TIME, VACATION TIME, ETC. THEN THEY BECOME COUNTY EMPLOYEES NOT SHERIFFS EMPLOYEES. THIS DOES NOT GIVE HIM THE RIGHT TO FIRE THOSE EMPLOYEES. HE CAN RECOMEND THEM TO BE FIRED TO THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND THEY USUALLY WILL HONOR HIS REQUEST. NOT FACT, IT IS LAW.