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Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 05:52:54 AM EST
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Update: The jury of ten has been seated. All men, four officers and six enlisted men.

Charles Graner is scheduled for trial today in Fort Hood, Texas on abuse charges stemming from the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. He is considered a ringleader. He is also the father of Lynndie England's baby. In civilian life, he was a Pennsylvania prison guard who has been accused of beating an inmate and a husband accused of spousal abuse.

The prison guard from Uniontown, Pa., is accused of jumping on detainees, stomping on their hands and feet, and punching one man in the temple hard enough to knock him out. In one of the photos that blew the scandal wide open, Graner is shown giving a thumbs-up behind a pile of naked Iraqi inmates. Another photo shows him cocking his fist as if to punch a hooded detainee.

According to Lynndie England,

Graner... applied needle and thread to prisoners after beating them. "Cpl. Graner would personally stitch up detainees if the wound weren't too bad," she said. "He would take pictures of his work. One particular incident Cpl. Graner ran a former Iraqi general into a wall and split his lip. Cpl. Graner stitched up his lip."

Graner got a bit of a break Thursday when prosecutors dropped four charges. He now faces a maximum of 17 1/2 years in prison.

His defense will be that he was acting on orders from higher-ups. You can access all of our prior coverage of his case here.

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    Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday | 28 comments (28 topical)
    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#1)
    by cp on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 05:52:41 AM EST
    news flash! according to the candidate for u.s. attorney general, torture is a bad thing, sort of, maybe. hey, let me get back to you on that, ok. boy, that's the problem, these messages just take forever to filter down to the troops, they're always the last ones to know. well, now that mr. gonzales has cleared that up for everyone, this kind of nonsense will cease immediately. maybe. probably not. does anyone in this administration really care? maybe. probably not.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#2)
    by wishful on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 06:00:09 AM EST
    Those silly bad apples, they do the darndest things. Too bad the Bushists didn't know the old saying, "One bad apple spoils the whole bunch." They could have developed those chain of command and discipline thingies they used to do in the military to deal with this kind of behavior and nip it in the apple blossom. Without that top-down clear knowledge of what's right and wrong, with consequences clearly spelled out, and that sense of accountability all the way to the top, these guys could get the mistaken idea that a little torture is ok. And [gasp!] that silly idea could mysteriously spread around the world, wherever low-level little apples can be found executing their duties as directed by their superiors. Or maybe they were all sneaking in a few of the exact same torture techniques on prisoners not in any way related to terrorist activities. Just ask the 16 year old boy at Abu Ghraib who was reportedly raped by a rotten apple. How can we not have a system in place to hold our leaders responsible for this travesty and its immediate halt? How can the use of torture even be debated? See AG's AG confirmation hearings for the most incredible discussions, conducted with straight faces. Never in a million years would I have thought any such display would be anything but a parody in my beloved U.S. of A. But here we are. Who among us thinks that the prosecution of Grainer will have any impact on the standard practice expected of our soldiers by our military and civilian leaders? Oh what a sorry day.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 06:05:39 AM EST
    Actually, I do think that each prosecution of these thugs does have an impact on our troops. There may be some sense of betrayal by the higherups, but the word travels fast that just because the commander winks when he says geneva conventions that doesn't mean a thing once the digital photos hit the internet. Some of the troops are criminals or of a criminal mind set - mens rea - just like the regular population. They will probably not get the message. They will kill, pillage, torture, rape because it really appeals to their being. We may be created in God's image, but we have free will and we act of our free will.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#4)
    by wishful on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 06:20:26 AM EST
    The impact of each prosecution on the troops is this: No more photos! Got that, you idiots? Nothing that can implicate us. I thought I taught you guys better than that. If you get caught, you're on your own. Look at Grainer, you fools. And if you aren't tough on these dogs you're guarding, you'll get a little of what they're getting. Understood? The thing that AG said yesterday when questioned about his reaction to news about the torture at Abu Ghraib was something like, "As a human being, I was sickened by those pictures." Note the weasel words. Troops heard exactly what was being said. No more pictures, you idiots.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 08:11:29 AM EST
    Welcome to the post Rodney King world. There are no places without cameras. By the time military system of conducts are (re)written and insitutionalized, there will be robotic cameras everywhere. The future belongs to nations that act honorable like we said we were before we had a President who thinks God speaks to him directly.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 09:12:41 AM EST
    So the little guy goes to prison and the big guys get new jobs, so do you care about this madness? don't think so, you care only for the show,The American Federal Empire has started and you don't see it, how sad.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#7)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 09:42:25 AM EST
    Yeah Fred I see it. What do you want me to do? They got Fox News, 3000 nukes and an army to keep us down. Any suggestions?

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 10:46:42 AM EST
    I can't help but feel sorry for those poor terrorist prisoners. They kill innocent people, get imprisoned and something horrible like this happens to them. I'm glad there are websites out there like yours that stand up for their rights to chop heads off, kidnap and torture without the same thing happening to them. Keep up the good work!

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 10:50:19 AM EST
    Makes me sick. They're getting away with it, too. They just won't be allowed cameras. It's a subtle mixture of "don't ask, don't tell" and "what we don't know won't hurt us."

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 10:53:24 AM EST
    yeah Will, because there is no doubt that they all are "terrorists" and have, or will try to kill us. We're only forcing democracy on them, it's not like we need to practice it ourselves.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 10:56:35 AM EST
    Will: Could one summize that you are in agreement with Col. Kurtz.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#13)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 11:18:37 AM EST
    As a nation we have reached the heart of darkness and have imbraced it.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 11:33:07 AM EST
    Not a single 'authorized' torturer at Abu Garaib [CIA & Merc] have been charged. Let's see Gonzales get right on this [after the DEMs gleefully confirm him].

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 11:37:45 AM EST
    “He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression.” Thomas Paine

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 12:08:57 PM EST
    The little guys go to jail, the big guys get promoted..you nailed it again Fred.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#16)
    by desertswine on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 12:30:48 PM EST
    And I thought irony was dead.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 12:45:00 PM EST
    Kind of like Enron, little guys get screwed out of their due, big guys steal everything that isn't bolted down.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 01:19:49 PM EST
    Will, you sound like you want us to be as good as the terrorist at being terrorists. You assume that those who got tortured are guilty, how do you know, how does anyone know since we have had no trials. This can't shoot straight gang (administration) hasn't caught many of those terrorists we know did the deed. I don't feel sorry for any terrorist, thet get what they get, but how about if some of these folks are innocent. From your own words you incriminate yourself and maybe you should be interrogated as to what you know especially since your sure of their guilt and only their accomplices would or could be that sure.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 05:33:21 PM EST
    If you really want to do something, start to do some real work, start to setup a march on washington like in 1969, start to act-up-start to work with each other. But that would only make the empire mad, and put us all in prison, can we say 1938?

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 06:52:59 PM EST
    What those, who were accused, are guilty of is on par with fraternity "dirty tricks" -- big deal !! OMG they scared some jackass with a growling dog. I feel so bad for those among them that were the killers.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 05:57:40 AM EST
    Paul represents a certain slice of the American electorate who can't see the problems with their logic or humanity. They are unaware of our treaty obligations, they know little or nothing about due process, and they vote Bush. These are the folks I think about when it crosses my mind that maybe we get the government we deserve.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 06:01:04 AM EST
    On the question of photos: yes, I think I completely understand that when the admin thugs say these photos made them sick, they may indeed be talking about their reaction to the fact of the documentation of torture, not the fact of torture, and the message that they never want to see photos like this again is not lost on me. But I also agree with the poster above who noted that in the world we now live in you will never know when you are on camera. For better or worse, that's just a fact. Can't unring that bell.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 09:40:29 AM EST
    You underestimate people at your own peril, CA. Your side was sent packing by people you presume to wax superior to. Irony certainly is not dead...

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#25)
    by cp on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 09:54:38 AM EST
    oh dr. ace, droll as always. waxing superior to this crowd is sooooooooooo easy, they darn near do it for us. it's low hanging fruit dude! i think, at this point, the RNC is going to have to diligently try to amend the constitution, to allow for a third term, or pray that the electorate is just as stupid in 2008 as in 2004. or, work very hard to get even more "fixed" voting machines in place. anything, other than have someone who isn't "in" elected. when the dirt all comes out, on this administration, it isn't going to be a pretty sight. i see lots of criminal cases, lots of claims of immunity, from the current crowd. it should be, if nothing else, entertaining.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 12:24:55 PM EST
    Once more in English, please, cp... [Dr. Ace, you're over limit for today. Feel free to come back tomorrow.]

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#27)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 03:20:54 AM EST
    Now that the investigation of sexual abuse in the Democratic Republic of Congo is out (hint; the UN did it), I expect you'll have as much outrage about that as about Abu Ghraib. I sure do. Otherwise, it would be clear you don't give a rodent's patootie about injustice unless it can be invoked to reproach the US. As if that's a surprise.

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 05:37:26 AM EST
    RA, the thread is about the trial for abuse by American soldiers who were holding Iraqis in a prison setting. There are many sad events that occur in the world each day. Some make it to this website. This particular event is about US taxpayer dollars funding what look like crimes and treaty violations by our troops. Here is the website for you: link

    Re: Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday (none / 0) (#29)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sun Jan 09, 2005 at 07:02:58 AM EST
    off topic comment deleted. Commenter warned he will be banned if he repeats.

    Abu Graib Abuse Trial to Begin Friday | 28 comments (28 topical)