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Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tissue for Burial

Bump and Update: This is the lead story on the Denver local news. Ahead of the Inaugural.

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Original Post (this morning)

Simply outrageous. For over a year, Crist Mortuary in Boulder, Colorado has had a secret deal with a local Catholic church to stash fetal tissue from an abortion clinic that the mortuary had picked up for cremation. Now, on the anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the church is going to hold a burial ceremony and bury the tissue in its cemetary. The mortuary's general manager is Michael Greenwood.

To lament the upcoming 32nd anniversary of the Roe vs. Wade abortion decision, a Roman Catholic parish in Boulder says it plans to bury the cremated remains of hundreds of aborted fetuses, most of which came from a prominent local abortion clinic without the clinic's knowledge, according to interviews with the parties involved.

The parish received the ashes in boxes from Crist Mortuary in Boulder, which picks up fetal remains from the Boulder Abortion Clinic and cremates them for no charge "as a community service," said Michael Greenwood, the mortuary's general manager. He said there is no contract.

The owner of the business, disturbed by what he found in the shipments, has been quietly passing the remains along to the parish since 2001, and also did so from 1996 to 1998 when he worked at another Boulder County mortuary, said Susan LaVelle, former Respect Life coordinator at Sacred Heart of Mary parish in Boulder.

This has been going on since 2001 but never publicized before because of the controversy the Church and Mortuary knew it would engender.

LaVelle said the remains of between 600 and 1,000 fetuses from abortions conducted between November 2003 and November 2004 would be laid to rest....The church has staged similar burials twice a year since 2001, but LaVelle said organizers have been hesitant to publicize them because the parish's arrangement with the mortuary was unknown to the abortion clinic and almost certainly would be halted once it came to light.

The director of the abortion clinic was shocked to learn of the misappropriation and burial plan:

There's been no interruption of the harassment...And I consider this press release (announcing the parish events) harassment."

If, as these anti-choice extremists believe, the discarded fetal tissue is a human being, then perhaps the Church and the mortuary owner should be charged under the Colorado statute with abuse of a corpse.

18-13-101. Abuse of a corpse

(1) A person commits abuse of a corpse if, without lawful authority, he:

(a) Removes the body or remains of any person from a grave or other place of sepulcher without the consent of surviving relatives or surviving intimate friends; or

(b) Treats the body or remains of any person in a way that would outrage normal family sensibilities.

I suspect that anti-choice people will read this post and want to leave comments here supporting the action of the mortuary and church. Since I will have to wade through their comments and delete those that do not conform to TalkLeft's commenting rules, prominently displayed on the home page, I've come up with a solution: All comments supporting the action will be deleted unless a $2.00 paypal donation to TalkLeft to cover my time to read them is made. (Long quotes, especially those from the Bible, and comments that violate TalkLeft's commenting policy will be deleted regardless of payment.)

In anticpation of freedom of speech complaints, remember, TalkLeft is a personal site, I am not the Government, and I am not obligated to host comments. If the thread gets hijacked or too many responses supporting the action are made without payment, I'll shut down the comments.

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    What a revolting thing to do.

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#2)
    by wishful on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 09:08:28 AM EST
    I thought the Church wouldn't perform funerals for fetuses. My mother had a miscarriage (spontaneous abortion) many years ago, at 5 mo., and the Catholic Church told her to get over it. It wasn't a human--no funeral allowed.

    Father Frankenstein, I presume.

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#4)
    by pigwiggle on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 09:21:17 AM EST
    Holy freakshow!

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 09:25:16 AM EST
    A pretty tasteless stunt in my opinion. I think you are right Lavocat, my brother's first child was still-born, and the local Catholic parish would not perform a funeral. I guess Catholic tradition goes out the window when you have an agenda to push.

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#7)
    by tps12 on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 09:27:31 AM EST
    At least they are being consistent with their beliefs. Creepily so, but since when have the deeply religious let that stop them.

    I wonder if they’ll give me a plot for my dirty sheets?

    When I drove through Boulder it looked so nice. But uber-creepy law enforcement (and Catholics, apparently). Must be something in the water??

    I think (hope) you'll find this to be an isolated incident. Sorry, folks, but pro-life or pro-choice, this is patently disgusting and contemptuous of human life. That it was done through the auspices of a church is anathema. Can church-santioned grave-robbing be far behind? This has got to be one of the most disturbing posts I've yet seen on Talk Left. Sad beyond words.

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#11)
    by cp on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 09:40:45 AM EST
    no tps12, they aren't. as noted in a couple of posts above yours, the catholic church does not perform funerals for miscarried fetuses, deeming them not human. this particular church is in violation of church canon. i'd be curious to know if this same church had refused to perform funeral services for miscarried fetuses of parishioners, on the grounds that they weren't human beings? anyone got any way of finding out? that would be the ultimate hypocrisy. richard aubrey, nice to know you are consistent. consistently unable to actually get the point. there is something almost refreshing about your little-minded hobgoblin of consistency.

    life begins at conception Since these people can't conceive of anything else I guess they don't count as life;-)

    The question is not whether a baby was born dead, but if it is baptized. Non-baptized people are not supposed to be buried in consecrated ground.

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#14)
    by desertswine on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 10:07:02 AM EST
    I assume that they're going to baptize the aborted fetuses so that the tissue can go to heaven. Also, unless the tissue is Catholic, it can't be buried in a Catholic cemetary. Are they going to convert the tissue before burial?

    this seems to me to be a horrifying violation of privacy. when they had the abortion, they were told that the fetal tissue would be destroyed. not cremated and then buried years later after being stored by some psychopath. whether is was ever 'human' or not, it was once a part of the bodies of these women and they have the right to know that once it is destroyed, it is gone. again, not sitting in the warehouse of some crazy church person. if those women chose to come forward and press charges for invasion of privacy (breach of contract?), would they be granted anonymity? of course not. if the women want to do anything about it, they have to come forward and be subject to possible death threats and guaranteed hatred and abuse from the supposedly righteous religious leaders involved in this atrocity. so they probably won't ever say a word. that's probably part of the plan. considering that a portion of these women no doubt went through a trauma that led to their abortion (rape, incest, etc), they are now being traumatized again by this church. which is what jesus would want, i am sure. what really irks me is that these same churches are probably not going to all this trouble to make sure that dead homeless people or just plain poor people who cannot afford funerals (icluding children) are getting proper burials and blessings. their 'respect for life' must end at birth.

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#16)
    by wishful on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 10:11:20 AM EST
    Mary R. That always bothered me, even as a 6 yr old in Catholic school. It doesn't present a very loving image of G*d, to condemn babies to burn in hell forever NOT due to free will choices, but due to what Adam & Eve did. And add to that the anguish of parents who "know" their babies are so condemned by the Almighty. It must be hard for them to square that with the loving and forgiving part, no? So how do these guys at this particular church get a pass from G*d?

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#17)
    by wishful on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 10:13:43 AM EST
    BTW, baptism only counts if one is alive at the time. You can't baptize someone who has already passed. Church law and all.

    Wishful: The Mormon folks have made baptism of dead people a growth industry. Depends on which church law you are talking about. In a related story, the Church has also agreed to bury thousands of "sticky" tissues provided by teenage males in the area, as these might have someday become a human being as well. The things people on both sides will do to push their viewpoint on this issue is a never ending source of amusement for me.

    Point of note: Children who are "born" inherit the suffering bequethed by God onto the descendants of Adam and Eve. If I remember my Catholic dogma correctly, an unborn baby that is miscarried or aborted "goes right to heaven" without passing purgatory because it has been spared the "mark of original sin". Although I've never heard this discussed, I have always believed that this theory underlies religion-based concern for the unborn vs. the born, the latter which, being sinners, deserve their misery.

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#20)
    by glanton on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 10:52:06 AM EST
    Excellent post, Adept. There's a scene in _Legally Blonde_ where Witherspoon wonders aloud if we aren't heading down a road where masturbation might one day be grounds for reckless abandonment. Silly movie, great point!

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 10:57:24 AM EST
    Assuming this is an official Cathoilic church and not an offshoot, I would hope the Vatican will be quick to condemn this activity and hand down some punishment. The Catholic Church cannot survive much more bad press.

    MASS graves in Colorado.

    kelite on January 20, 2005 11:09 AM "...their 'respect for life' must end at birth." i ain't not groupie, but yeah... what kelite said.

    Adept Havelock on January 20, 2005 11:27 AM "In a related story, the Church has also agreed to bury thousands of "sticky" tissues provided by teenage males in the area, as these might have someday become a human being as well." is this suggesting what i think this is suggesting. if it is, this could get expensive and time consuming. your joking right!!!! o.k. now i'm roflol!!!

    kdog on January 20, 2005 11:57 AM "...I would hope the Vatican will be quick to condemn this activity and hand down some punishment. The Catholic Church cannot survive much more bad press." i think the vatican has already demonstrated their ability/willingness to punish their own, transfer, hide history, payoff.

    I would expect, and support, charges being brought against all involved. From my catholic school days, I believe I remember that babies are born with original sin and if they die before baptism they don't go to hell, nor heaven, nor purgagtory. I believe I was taught that they go to something called "limbo." We did not duscuss aborted children in my schools, at least not that I remember. I believe I also remember something about the church declining the burial wishes of those who have been cremated. Regardless of all the above conjecture, and despite my anti-abortion beliefs, the actions of this church and its priest(s) are abominable.

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#28)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 01:00:50 PM EST
    It doesn't scare us RA, it is offensive. Were the parents of the aborted fetuses notified and provided consent forms to release the fetuses to the catholic church to be used in an advertisement for their cause? Abortion is not an easy choice and it is emotionally painful for the people that choose it. In keeping with the traditions of religion are they seeking to induce more guilt upon the women? Provided they have consent decrees from each of the women to perform their religious rites, I say go for it. If they do not, then they have violated the rights of those women to have the fetuses to be handled or buried or cremated as they best saw fit.

    comment deleted, no paypal contribution made. See post for details. If contribution is made, comment will be restored.

    richard aubrey; yes, of course it's hit home. yes, of course we are outraged. and yes, of course we are scared. because what these people are doing is shameful and horrifying. if they had personally had abortions and had chosen to bury the removed tissue in sacred ground after storing it for a year or so... i would think it was weird but my outrage level would be low. however, this is the result of thousands of women having legal abortions at a clinic, having the removed tissue taken away by a company promising to destroy and dispose of it, and then having that company instead perform religious ceremonies with the tissue. without the consent or even the knowledge of the people who had that tissue removed from their bodies. now, if the women who had the abortions choose to take issue with this happening with tissue from their bodies, they face abuse and possible harm from fanatical pro-choice groups. if you can't see what's wrong with this, and why it should scare us all, perhaps something is wrong wth you.

    comment deleted, no paypal contribution made. See post for details. If contribution is made, comment will be restored. [Once more and this commenter will be banned.]

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#5)
    by Richard Aubrey on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 05:05:50 PM EST
    comment deleted, no paypal contribution made. See post for details. If contribution is made, comment will be restored.

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#33)
    by pigwiggle on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 07:25:34 PM EST
    DA- Out of curiosity for a peak at the previous post I considered throwing in my two bucks. However, you seem to actually like the guy. Two bones, pretty cheap.

    There's just got to be a Stephen King novel somewhere in this morass.

    So I'm supposed to pay. Right. [since you didn't pay, your comment was deleted. ]

    The link is apparently bad. it should be .html, not .htm [thanks, I fixed it.]

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#35)
    by Mary on Thu Jan 20, 2005 at 08:06:31 PM EST
    There has to be some legal penalty for the funeral home for this activity. Seems they are pretending because there was no written contract that there is no penalty, but I think not. I hope the Catholic church people involved and the funeral home guy all go to jail.

    From the experience of learning the Baltimore catechism and standard pastoral comfort given after two very early miscarriages. The souls of children who die before birth and therefore can not be baptised go to heaven and/or a place of peace but without the beatific vision. If the latter they will go to heaven after the end of the world. They are popularly described to the family as "little angles in heaven" A priest would certainly say a mass for them. This brings up a very sore point for the church , which I think is one of the reasons behind their opposition to abortion. If we are human from the moment of conception ( which the church has claimed only in the last 100 years or so)than the souls of the aborted go to heaven. They are not harmed . In church thought is the souls of the women having abortions that are at risk. The fetus is in spiritual terms saved. It may or may not have to wait for a close relationship with God. But its eternal salvation is assured. It is not in church terms harmed. It was simply a human who lived and died as we all must and went to heaven, as we may or may not. There are creepy aspects to this definitely Borges wrote a fantasy history about imaginary early christian cults killing their children before the chilren reached the age of reason and therfore sin. It also applies of to say severly retarded people of any age. You can see where this chain of reasoning can lead. In any case we are, as has been often pointed out a fertility religion. If you find the burial farce horrific ,as I do, contact the bishop of whatever diocese Denver is in. Diocese have web pages usually giving phone numbers, web pages.

    For the record, Aubrey's post, now removed, made reference to the fact that the acts cited above effectively personalized the fetal remains, a concept that ironically seems to offend the left. I find this idea very conducive to serious reflection.

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#38)
    by cp on Fri Jan 21, 2005 at 08:23:46 AM EST
    hardly dr. ace. dumping boxes of mixed ashes, in a mass grave, in no way constitutes "personalizing". using that definition, the nazis, by dumping thousands of the dead bodies of their murder victims at dachou, auschwitz, bergin-belsin, etc., into mass graves, effectively "personalized" them. i doubt the survivors would agree. once again, neither you or richard seem capable of getting even a simple concept straight.

    ra; we were all over the case in which the funeral home failed to cremate bodies for the same reasons we are all over this nasty bit of business. women who have abortions have a right to decide what happens with the tissue once it has been removed. just as the families of the dead in georgia have a right to make sure the funeral home follows their wishes and the wishes of their dead loved one. an analogy; you take your car in to the shop. they tell you it is hopeless, it will never run again. you ask them to donate the car to a charity, thinking maybe they can sell the scrap metal. the auto shop agrees, you leave. a year or so later, you discover that they did not do what was asked. instead, they sold the scrap metal for their own profit and gave none of it to charity. of course, that analogy is lacking because it doesn't approximate the creepiness factor, or the fact that if these women want to complain they'll have to out themselves publicly as women who had abortions and therefore open themselves up to hate mail etc (at the very least). this is not about the religious ceremony, to me. the funeral home agreed to dispose of the ashes as a community service, if they want to say a few prayers over them that's their affair. but saving them all up for a publicized mass burial in a cemetary? it's about doing things with pieces of someone's body without their knowledge or consent for your own political or personal gain. that's wrong, in my view.

    deleted, no donation made.

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#42)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Jan 21, 2005 at 12:38:28 PM EST
    First, let me again say; CREEPY, CREEPY, and CREEPY. But really folks, when I put my trash at the curb it’s hard for me to get too concerned about what happens to it, as long as it doesn’t end up back on the lawn. Even if some religious nut-job is trying to send it to heaven. I have to wonder why people would get so emotional about this. Here are two reasons right off the top of my head. People get chappy when they think others disapprove of their behavior; when new acquaintances find out my wife is a vegetarian they feel like their eating habits are automatically under attack. Or, perhaps people who had abortions weren’t that comfortable with it.

    Well, for the sake of the unnamed women to whom this tissue belongs, I'll out myself so that I can comment with authority. I have had two abortions. One was when I was very young and became accidentally pregnant in an unhealthy relationship. My parents are true Christians in that they would have considered me a "fallen" woman and any suffering that befell me or my child considered just punishment for the "wages of sin". The second was when I was in my thirties and working and attending night school. Again, really, really bad choice of future fathers. However, the only reason I didn't have this baby was financial. I wanted it badly and was heartbroken. In addition, I am adopted. My biological mother got pregnant from a musician in a bar when she was 21. He was 35 and it was her "first time". One of the first things she told me when we first met via telephone was that she would have had an abortion if it was legal at the time. I don't hold this against her. re; Personal preferences, I would never give a child up for adoption. I and my adoptive siblings were physically and emotionally abused from adoption since "our mothers were whores" and my adoptive mother was mad she couldn't get pregnant when she had been so damn religious her whole life. I realize my admission creates a bias against me among some of you, to whom I will forever lose moral credibility. However it's worth it to say that THAT TISSUE BELONGS TO THOSE WOMEN and if I'd had an abortion at that clinic, I'd have a lawyer estimating the worth of the crematory and church I would soon own. Dr. Ace and Cliff, don't f***ing personalize ANYTHING that belongs to me unless I ask you to do first. And the only thing I'm asking you to personalize is the big snot on the end of my middle finger. You've reminded me that women having abortions where I live is still traumatic - I'm going to volunteer as an escort on Saturdays.

    Correction to above posting: Abortions are always traumatic. What is still traumatic is walking into the abortion clinic (which has been bombed, BTW)

    i'll understand if the sitemaster chooses to pull this post, but here is some basic contact info for groups involved in this. I found this info on google so it's public domain and etc. < a href="http://sacredheartofmary.org"> is the website for the church at issue. there is contact info on the staff page under about shm. Crist Mortuary & Crematory (303) 442-4411 3395 Penrose Pl Boulder, CO 80301 (no website I could find through google.) i'm sure many are well ahead of me in this, but these folk need some direct feedback.

    comment deleted, no paypal contribution made. See post for details. If contribution is made, comment will be restored.

    Crusader, as I'm sure others will point out to you: this is JM's own site, not public space, which she pays for and she runs as suits her. If you don't like that, set up your own blog where you can say what you like.

    Re: Church and Mortuary Schemed to Take Fetal Tiss (none / 0) (#48)
    by brian on Fri Jan 21, 2005 at 04:48:45 PM EST
    HA HA, leave it to religeon to mess with other's affairs. So how much of our hard earned money are we going to shell out for an organization based on subserviant rule? For those of you who completely disagree, try reading something other than scripture, perhaps you'll learn something. And this story about the abortion thing.... well, the catholics have always been corrupt, just another drop in the bucket.

    deleted, no paypal contribution made.

    Mfox: I tip my hat to you on your candor. However, I've found that candor can be a dangerous thing on blogs (hence the anonymous monikers, et al.). Nonetheless, thanks for sharing. Funny thing about adoption: I'm thinking about doing so right now. A friend of mine mentioned the number of orphans left by the recent tsunami disaster, and I find myself seriously thinking about the prospect. Still, from a cultural perspective, I have an uneasy feeling about it. It feels more like poaching than adopting. Anyway, thank you, mfox.

    Explain how the law was violated, please.

    If you want to stop the farcical burial contact the diocese. All diocese have web pages and e@mail addresses. If they feel it is causing a Scandal they will stop it and make sure it will not happen again. Emphasize that the pastors have always told their flock that funeral masses and burial in sacred ground are inappropriate for miscarried fetuses.

    ck: CANON law, not secular law. And since I am a starnger to canon law, I'll leave it to others on this post.

    Anyone ever notice that the same entities that favor abortion seem to favor having "litters" instead of one or two kids. More kids per family diminishes the quality of life ie: education, nourishment, personal attention, etc. per child. Hey church, Does burying the fetus of an atheist or Jewish or Protestant mother in "Sacred Ground" contaminate the fetus or the cemetary? Sanctified action, my a**!