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Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case

By Jeralyn, Section Legislation
Posted on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 03:33:53 PM EST
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The House and Senate have reached a compromise on Terri Schiavo. The new legislation will allow her case to be reviewed by the federal courts. It could be passed at a special session tomorrow. It then goes to President Bush for signature.

Bottom line: Assuming the legislation becomes law, Terri Schiavo's feeding tube will be reinserted pending the outcome of federal review.

The measure would effectively take Schiavo's fate out of Florida state courts, where judges ordered the feeding tube removed on Friday, and allow Schiavo's parents to take their case to a federal judge. DeLay said that would likely mean restoration of the feeding tube "for as long as this appeal endures."

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    Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case | 52 comments (52 topical)
    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 03:56:36 PM EST
    This is more an issue of the Cynical political exploitation of science and logic vs beliefs,hope and faith. I believe this will only hurt the Repugs in the long run.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 04:14:49 PM EST
    Agree with you Ed! I see it backfiring on the Republicans. Question for anyone: In all likelihood, will this legislation be passed tomorrow, and does it mean that her parent's can the case to Federal Court? What are the advantages of that? Will her husband keep his standing regarding decision making? And how long would this type of appeal take?? Sorry for all the questions, I'm an RN, not a lawyer. One thing I'd to add is that Terri's tube was never removed, it's just capped, or closed. This is the only way she recieves her medications and it's still in use for that. When she's fed, it hooked up to a pump or she gets bolus feedings (I work for the Hospice there). Thanks

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 04:28:52 PM EST
    Do we want Congress in our living rooms, evaluating all of our personal decisios? Poor Terry Schiavo's parents, whose daughter is gone, but they cannot bear the prospect of the loss, so they want to keep her alive (at the cost of thousands - paid by us all via taxes, since she is on State aid) -- despite her husband's assertion that she did not want to be kept alive in that state.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#4)
    by wishful on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 05:16:26 PM EST
    If God exists, he is surely disappointed in us. Look at what people outside the Schiavo family are doing to them just to get their own ideologies made into the law of the land. For a believer, why is it difficult to believe that if someone no longer has the capacity to swallow and take in sustenance, He is calling that person home? When the heart has no capacity to beat, when the lungs have no capacity to breath, people die. If these things can be corrected and made to work again through the miracle of science, go for it. But a feeding tube does not restore the ability to swallow. Maybe the connection between the brain damage that Mrs. Schiavo suffered, and her incapability to swallow are part of Intelligent Design and not just a coincidence. Maybe her husband is honoring wishes that she made clear to him that she did not want extraordinary measures to be kept from dying in such an instance. Maybe about 16 judges agreed so far after weighing all of the evidence, multiple times. How do those people kneeling on Mr. Shiavo's lawn know more what God wants than Terri or Michael?

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 05:30:49 PM EST
    In 1999 then governor Bush signed a law which allowed hospitals to withdraw life support from patients, over the objections of the family, if they consider the treatment to be nonbeneficial. -Atrios 8:05 PM he confusing world of George Bush

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 06:01:02 PM EST
    MS - I think there was a very large law suit settlement. So she isn't on state aid. But if you are concerned about money spent on trying to save lives, I am sure you want the EPA to rescind their latest rules, which are supposed save about 17,000 people over five years, at a cost of billions of dollars.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#7)
    by wishful on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 06:15:07 PM EST
    PPJ, what is your position on money spent to save lives?

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 06:38:21 PM EST
    Funny, what happened to States Rights and small federal government? Why does it always seem like certain people care more for the unborn and the permanently incapacitated than they do for the tens of thousands of people in desperate need of help? Why do the same people who preach the sanctity of marriage - which gives Mr. Schiavo certain legal rights in this situation - want to now ignore all that and give her Mom, Dad, and the federal government those rights? None of this is to say that I don't feel for the Schiavo family, but this battle has long sense stopped being about one woman, and become an agenda for certain groups. You just wonder where that agenda really is.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 06:50:23 PM EST
    I think the agenda is demogagery. People like Terry Randall whipping up hysteria among folks who have no connection to the actual human beings suffering with the terrible choices and circumstances. How many of the folks who are demonstrating have their legal ducks in a row? We need to print out a form advance directive that specifies for these folks that because of the sanctity of life, they want every test and treatment known to man and beast if they ever become incapacitated. They want to suffer every possible indignity because it as God wills that each one of should stay alive every minute it is possible, no matter how much suffering is involved for ourselves or our loved ones. Sign on the dotted line for all the medical treatment that can possibly be brought to bear. Don't just demonstrate for someone else and their family to suffer your dream death, sign up yourself. I would be happy to draft the advance directive for those who want to sign their copy.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimcee on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 06:56:48 PM EST
    Overall I would not have made the discision that the husband has made and perhaps he should have removed the feeding tube himself. The abstract arguement would become personal action. I am not being judgemental just thinking how this is such a Soloman-like thing. The answer lies in so many small instances and observations that makes it impossible to realisically say who is right. Somehow I think there isn't a correct answer in this case and for either political side to use it to advance thier agenda is vulgar to say the least. This case has been over-exposed in the media and then has become grist for the media mill. My two cents tells me if the parents are willing to stand by thier daughter I can except that. I also understand how the husband feels too but I have a hard time excepting that dehydration/starvation is a humane way to let someone die. As I said a tough, private thing it is.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#11)
    by wishful on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 07:22:45 PM EST
    jimcee says":
    Overall I would not have made the discision that the husband has made
    Is this a hypothetical for you, or have you been there?

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 07:58:43 PM EST
    Arguing states' rights to promote the death of the handicapped; Denying states' rights to promote the death of the unborn. Objective: Death for the defenseless.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#15)
    by jerry on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 08:30:32 PM EST
    Lets see: Delay is on the hotseat for some compaign funny money antics and Bush is in his usual," I'll save everything for everybody mode". So what better time to ride in on the white horse and deflect the press coverage for a while over his miserable failure at war, economics, and his "I have no plan for social security, but It needs changin". In the mean time this poor family wages a battle against this womans wishes not to be kept alive. Bush and company are so pathetic. What ever happened when american justice is being overidden by the whitehouse? What do we need judges and courts for.....We've got George and his band of Bible thumpers to tell us how to live.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 08:48:46 PM EST
    The evidence in this case, the evidence showing what Terri Schiavo would want is far from clear.
    numerous judges have already ruled contrary to your belief. did you reread your last paragraph. do then you will notice the difference in your situations. play hardball, like the right. strategy: her husband should convert his/their religion to Seventh-day Adventist, a "fundie" religion that prohibits such extreme medical intervention. extreme, ridiculous, but so like the rethugs. Jerry at March 19, 2005 09:30 PM and the truth often hurts. deflection, plain and simple.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 09:36:16 PM EST
    Numerous judges have ruled on the legal issues, but haven't reviewed Greer's factal findings.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 09:58:28 PM EST
    Ugh, clicked too soon. Can't spell either. I meant factual before. A g-tube is far from extreme medical intervention. (Hell, I'm pouring whiskey down my own as we speak.) The Schindlers clearly find their daughter's life valuable. I understand that, I find my daughters' lives valuable. If a g-tube isn't your cup of tea, if it is against your beliefs, then fine, have at it. Write down your wishes. Make a video, scratch them out in blood, on toilet paper -- Do anything to memorialize them. Do whatever you want to yourself. The problem in this case is that she just didn't write down her wishes. We (our judicial system) have to guess. The problem with guessing is that sometimes we are wrong. Sometimes we are right, but sometimes we are wrong. The other problem is that what is decided in Terri's case is applied to other people with disabilities down the line. The rulings in her case become precedent. What about the death row inmate? Should we guess about his or her guilt? Of course not. The state should not be in the position of killing people (which raises the question why we

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 10:27:01 PM EST
    It's not about a g-tube. It's not about disabilities. It's about Terri's mental status. I don't really see all that much difference between keeping people in a persistant vegetative state alive by artificial means and torture. If there's no mind there it's nothing but a bizarre Mengelean medical experiment.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 10:51:46 PM EST
    Fellow Americans, How can any of us possibly tolerate the US. Congress intervening in a state proceeding which involves the most personal of decisions. Partisanship and ideology aside, where is our respect for the Constitution?

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#21)
    by Linkmeister on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 11:00:05 PM EST
    Don't forget that the same clowns who want to take away Mr. Schiavo's right to do what his wife asked (from what I've read of the court cases) are the ones who were howling about the sanctity of marriage during the 2004 election campaign. If they believed their own talking points they'd let Mr. Schiavo, as the husband, make the decision.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 02:00:26 AM EST
    put a sock on her head and change her name to Ali Schiavo and you crazy whacked out libs will be sending in the Aclu to save Terry. Why do you rush to the aid of Muslim scum in Abu GRa and Guantanamo but when it comes to poor Terry off with her head. If Terry were a marne you would probably be calling for a firing squad.Liberals will be losing lots of elections.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 02:14:06 AM EST
    The description of Ayuyu2's personal suffering makes it all but impossible to hold an opposing position without sounding like you wish her personally dead (and are homophobic to boot). What liberal who wants to keep his heart bleeding profusely wouldn't pull his/her punches in disagreeing with her? But I don't care; Ayuyu2 is not the topic here. Bad, disingenuous argumentation is bad and disingenuous whether it comes from a paragon of health and vigor -like our beloved president- or a multiply - disabled lesbian. The personal situation she describes as her own is in no way analogous to Schiavo. And so I resent the fact that ayuyu2 is trying to claim the moral high road in such a cheap fashion. Ayuyu2 doesn't know what she is talking about any more than anyone else on the outside of the Schiavo case. Either her argument makes sense on its own merits or it doesn't. And it doesn't. Tragically, Schiavo doesn't have a brain anymore. There's nothing but fluid there, a situation that is not going to change with a new "review of the evidence." Ayuyu2 is being willfully dishonest here. Tragically, Schiavo didn't write down specific instructions that clearly spell out what to do. Not that that would matter to anyone connected to this case. You think such compassionate, honest men as Jeb Bush or Tom Delay would honor Schiavo's wishes when a fundamental moral principle - the very sanctity of life, dear friends! - is involved? No, they'd just pick her statement apart -it's the right that are masters at deconstruction - and twist it for their own ends. Which, I hasten to add, have nothing to do with issues of life or ending Schiavo's misery but simply holding onto their own corrupt power. In case I'm being unclear: The decision about what to do in this case is entirely a private decision that neither ayuyu2 nor Tom Delay has any right to interfere with. The underlying issues cannot be discussed with any kind of intelligence in the circus atmosphere that's been deliberately created by obscenely cynical Republicans. Nevertheless, it is truly striking how the right wing is so obsessed with preserving the body of a woman who has no brain. It is also truly sick.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 04:47:47 AM EST
    I've got an idea: why don't we just ask Terry what she wants to do? Oh, wait. We can't cause she's a vegetable with a 0% chance of recovery and is better suited to being a doorstop than anything else? Oh, that tears it then -- pull the tube.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 07:32:17 AM EST
    bad cop good cop, just a game its not about her its about playing games. and Remember its Florida land of child imprisonment.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 09:59:32 AM EST
    The unfortunate aspect of all this is that we can reasonably certain that neither side of this debate could really give two s***s about Ms. Schiavo herself, or the fact that the law, as Florida interprets it, permits, quite literally and quite possibly in this case, a spouse from manufacturing "the patient's intent" for personal financial benefit, with the State's full and total blessing. It's not a coincidence that this occurs in Florida, a state with an awful lot of potentially inconvenient elderly people much more likely to find themselves in Ms. Schiavo's current position than a 20-something newlywed with an eating disorder. Congress's actions, even if they keep Terri alive for now, will likely result in being struck down as "ex post facto" actions. Where was Congress all along (before the political football of this case maxed out) in mandating that "evidence" of the kind that will, ultimately, send Terri to her death, not be acceptable in a court of the United States, or any nation purportedly populated by "human beings"?

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 10:41:40 AM EST
    The parent's "experts" are quite thoroughly debunked at Majikthise.. See also Lie's Terri's Parents Told Me, among other places. People with far better prognosises (sp?) are taken off feeding tubes every day. What is crazy about this is this is a woman with over 1/3 of her brain MISSING. Not damaged or injured - MISSING. Refusing to deal with the facts of the case, pretending that removing feeding tubes from a woman who expresed a wish that she would not want to be kept alive under these circumstance means that they are coming to murder disabled children next doesn't help solve this problem in any way.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 12:32:41 PM EST
    "The unfortunate aspect of all this is that we can reasonably certain that neither side of this debate" Anyone who knows even the vaguest outlines of this story knows that there are not "two sides" but many. One can predict from this kind of black/white opening gambit that we are dealing with the start of a rightwing rant. And guess what? That's all it is, complete with selective marshalling of facts that represent not "both" sides, or "many" sides, but just one: the current Republican talking point.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 01:51:15 PM EST
    People should not post until they have read more about the case. From what I have learned, Terri very much wants to live. She is not "gone" and her family only wants to take custody and take care of her at their own expense not the tax payers. She should be allowed to live. Her so called husband obviously doesn't want to care for her. He has another woman AND children. Although her abilities are very limited and she requires considerable care and perhaps is not an ideal way to live, Terri IS able to communicate and laugh and love and cry. She is not on life support. She only requires that she be fed and hydrated through a tube. It is not right to flat out MURDER this woman. Let her continue to live and be cared for by her family that still loves her.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 02:27:15 PM EST
    kathrynsr, I've read plenty about this damn case, thank you very much. Your view is one of many. It neglects, among many relevant facts, the dreadful fact that Schiavo's brain deteriorated a long time ago. You are also playing God. No one knows all the details about what is involved except those directly involved, including those who examined what happened to Schiavo's brain. This is a private matter that tens of thousands of devout, loving families have had to deal with. But the extreme right wing has turned the Schiavo case into an obscene, immoral circus. Join me in condemning the politicians' disgraceful behavior towards this family. With them out of the picture, a good solution has a chance of emerging once these issues again become private ones. As long as they are public, there is nothing of genuine insight that can be gained, aside from the grotesque spectacle of the lunatic posturing by Tom DeLay and his henchmen.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 02:37:54 PM EST
    Hey Katherine If she could communicate --we would all know what she wants... I'd be curious to know how much time you spend helping the disabled other than this case

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 02:45:10 PM EST
    citations on where you learned so much, please kathrynsr. The facts you post don't seem to fit with what I have heard in this case. No matter how this turns out, Ms. S will not be cared for by her parents. She has been in professional nursing home care now for many years. It's hard enough to come to reasonable conclusions about this case if we stick to the facts of the case instead of making up things that are convenient to our point of view. Kathrynsr - do you have your advance directive in place? Have you signed on for hydration, tube feeding, sparking if your heart becomes tired of beating? CPR til your ribs break if necessary because you are a child of God who wants every second of this existence for the glory of the Creator? Just asking. I can draft that up. I also have the language all drafted for catheterization and bowel program. If you want to spare no expense, discomfort, or indignity to manifest your understanding of God's will, you really have to think it through and cover all the bases. If you have parents, spouse, children or loved ones, you want to make sure they also have these matters well expressed and binding on all parties.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 02:47:26 PM EST
    Another option: medical power of attorney with durable provision to the House or Senate majority leader, Terry Randall, Pat Robertson, Newt Gingrich, Pat Robertson or whoever. You know, someone you can count on to truly look out for your best interests, not to just make a political symbol out of your end of life process.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 06:30:57 PM EST
    I'm sickened and saddened that this very personal and horrendous decision has been removed from the hands of family and placed into a political forum. Let us all hope none of our loved ones (or us) become some political toy in order that someones agenda may be furthered. Anyone ready for Roe V Wade to be overturned? Get ready

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 07:09:46 PM EST
    Does anyone remember what marriage is? Marriage is til death do you part, IN SICKNESS AND HEALTH!!! It does not and was not supposed to mean if your other half gets sick, in a vegetated state,or whatever, to go on find another and have children by someone OTHER THAN YOUR LEGAL SPOUSE!!!!AND MAKE A DESCION TO BASICLY KILL HER.WHEN YOU HAVE BROKE YOUR VOWS AND LEGAL MARITAL RIGHTS WHEN YOU MAKE A DESCION THAT IS BASICLY ADULTRY.SO WHY HAVENT HER PARENTS GOT THE RIGHT? HE HAS EXERSIZED DIVORCE ALREADY WHEN HE GOT ANOTHER WOMAN AND HAD KIDS WITH HER!

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 07:53:32 PM EST
    Hey, OUTRAGED, you need an advance directive? You want one for your spouse? I think I can build all of your values directly into the document along with the rib-cracking, chest-sparking good times. Stoning for adultery might be hard to manage, but we can put it in there in case our justice and medical systems take a turn towards Old Testament.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 08:13:17 PM EST
    That is not my values nor the old testament directly,It is views that dont take marriage to its true and seriouse nature that makes so many people hurt, make bad desicions and whatever.What i am saying is He clearly went completly on with his life by going through the motions of marriage while he is married already and then trying to make a desicion for his LEGAL wife to remove a feeding tube, When her REAL blood family who will always be her family deside. The sad truth is a spouse is only a spouse for as long as they want to be once divorsed they are nothing to that person but the family parent,brother sister will ALWAYS BE FAMILY. Further more what gives him the right to make such a desicion for their daughter? And not let them be heard? He said it was a moral issue to remove her, so should'nt it be a moral issue to stay faithful to your marriage

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 10:16:10 PM EST
    I am a liberal, pro-choice, lesbian, single parent, peace and disability rights activist who supports Terri Schiavo's right to live. I support Terri Schiavo's right to live because the issue is a disability rights issue. This is not a right-to-die issue. This is not a conservative religious, conservative theological issue. This is not an anti-abortion issue. This is a civil rights issue. This is about saying people with disabilities are people no matter how severe their disabilities are, and no matter how severe their disabilities, they deserve the equal protection of the law ....Terri Schiavo's case is not about the religious right. It is also not about the right-to-die. It is about balancing the right to refuse treatment against the right not to be deprived of life without due process of law. The evidence in this case, the evidence showing what Terri Schiavo would want is far from clear. In addition, her guardian husband has many conflicts of interest. [remainder deleted due to length.]

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:21:24 AM EST
    Congress cannot constitutionally pass laws that apply to one person. This bill violates equal protection of the law to all citizens. And therein lies the problem the Schiavo family will have in federal court. The "government" has no right to intervene is this area of individual liberty.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:35:45 AM EST
    This is in response to ayuyu2 Terry Schiavo is not disabled, she is BRAIN DAMAGED. She has no cerebal cortex activity. This is a fact that was gathered by an mri or a cat scan. Mr. Schiavo has very little money left from the award that he received. He has spent it on doctors to try and rehabilitate Terry. Plus he has spent much of the money on lawyers fees because of people like you who for some reason, possibly because of self righteousness, or total ignorance to the case, and total ignorance to the medical aspects of the case. People like you take it upon yourselves to put your noses in other peoples lives. Did you know Terry Schiavo? No you didn't, so how can you say that she wouldnt want to be keep alive artificially? Only her and her husband can make that decision. Unfortunantly she cannot communicate because she has NO CEREBRAL CORTEX ACTIVITY, this has been proved by CAT scans or MRI'S that have been done. This case has been heard by over 20 judges, so what do you think will happen even if the judge decides to hear the case, which i do not think he will do? I suspect the judge will not even hear the case let alone throw it out. I seriously hope that you or a loved one is NEVER in the same postition as Mr. and Mrs. Schiavo is.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:26:37 AM EST
    IS EVERYTHIBG POLITICAL ? HOW MANY 22YR OLDS TALK ABOUT THEIR DYING WISHES? TERRY IS BREATHING ON HER OWN!!!! SHE HAS LIFE!!! I HAVE SEEN DEATH IN ALL FORMS, AND IT IS ALLLLLL PAINFUL! DO ALL YOU LIBERALS OUT THERE REALLY THINK HER HUSBAND CARES ABOUT "HER WISHES" or ALL THAT MONEY HE STANDS TO RECEIVE? I HOPE WHEN ITS YOUR TIME TO GO ,BYE BYE TO THE OTHER SIDE, YOU WILL BE SOOOO WILLING! !!!! I GUARANTEE YOU WILL NOT BE, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR PHYSICAL CONDITION IS!!! I KNOW OF THIS FIRST HAND.....

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#41)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 09:32:42 AM EST
    Hospice worker, The caps lock button is usually located just above the shift button on the left side of your keyboard. Many commenters here tend to scroll past comments that are all caps. Not me this time. HAVE SEEN DEATH IN ALL FORMS, AND IT IS ALLLLLL PAINFUL! B**ls**t. There are medical practitioners (besides myself) who comment here regularly. You are just another hitperson for the prolife movement. And to think of all the viable human beings murdered in our names by the same hypocrites who want to "save" Terry Schiavo.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 11:54:53 AM EST
    This is in response to HOSPICE WORKER on March 21, 2005 09:26 AM So you work in a hospice? What are you an orderly? Because if you had any knoledge at all about medical conditions or medications you would know that they give PAIN KILLING medications to people who suffer pain. Terry might be breathing on her own but she cannot feed herself, bath herself, or think for herself. So she breathes on her own, no body is disputing that. If she cannot feed her self she will die naturally. How do you know that Terry wasnt one of the many twenty two year olds who did talk about there future wishes about what to do in case something bad happens. More then one person other then Mr. Schiavo witnessed her statement of not wanting to be keep alive artificialy. Another problem with your arguement is the statement that "all you liberals", I am not liberal, I just tend to agree with the side of REASON, unlike people like you. I was watching C-Span at 12:30 this morning and they had a call in show and there were alot of republicans calling in saying how apauled they were at there fellow republicans

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 04:01:07 PM EST
    I GUARANTEE YOU WILL NOT BE
    bold assumption, i guarantee you that i will accept death for what it is, an inevitable part, albeit conclusion, to life! a life that i have enjoyed and cherised, but like all good things, i know and understand, must come to an end. btw: quality of life, does that mean anything to you. you probably have caged birds, or house-only pets that are neutered and/or spayed, and further you believe in the death penalty. i know bold assumption.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:50:08 PM EST
    Every one here trying to get the other to hear certain views is pointless,as a matter of fact, it is all over the world.Every one is different and no one is right.People are saying congress shouldnt get involved,but yet you are the very ones saying oh shes brain dead,cant swallow,dont respond,dont know whats going on.Well guess what noone really knows for sure what she feels,if she can or what.One thing is a fact and not an oppion,is that her husband went on with his life,a new woman and kids.I understand it is almost impossible to stop life that young and all.BUT being he went on it wouldnt hurt him to give custody to her rightful loving family and just finish getting on with his life.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 08:49:58 AM EST
    The Terry Schiavo situation is very sad, I think that is something that we can all agree on. But why do matters like this have to continually divide ua as a people? The last time I checked, only a few people actually hold the power to make a decision in this case. Maybe Mr. Schiavo, maybe Terry's family. Everyone who posts their own opinion (INCLUDING MYSELF) is wasting their precious time. Enjoy your life. Live it. Write out a will (talk to your spouse, hint hint) before this happens to you. At least your wishes will be known. Don't waste your time worrying about meaningless things (e.g. the personal beliefs/decisions of others).

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 09:36:42 AM EST
    "Eye tracking and Emotional responses are the most common ways of determining whether a patient is responding, and therefore no longer in a vegetative state. The first sign of a patient emerging from PVS is the localizing of the eyes on a visual stimulus. This can be observed because persons in a vegetative state are unable to track moving objects or fixate their vision on an object, and as a patient recovers they regain this ability. This type of a response if most often detected by family members or caregivers that have worked directly with the patient. Eye tracking is not necessarily enough to show that a person is recovering from PVS because patients may not show any other evidence of other meaningful response to the environment. More difficulties with eye tracking may come into play because of the possibility of other neurological or ophthalmological damage that may prevent a patient from tracking stimuli. This means that a patient may actually have a degree of recovery that will be missed because it cannot be detected through eye tracking." Anyone that has seen videos of Schiavo can clearly see that her eyes followed the balloon placed in front of her. Her family has told other such stories, but the balloon video is just one good example. 6. A Noble prize nominated Doctor that has spent over 10 hours with Schiavo contends that she could be rehabilitated. 7. She is not in a coma and she does comprehend things. 8. Terri could go outside in a wheel chair; she could go home, or even be taken other places.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 09:37:42 AM EST
    A Few Facts on Schiavo Many Americans have been lead to believe that Terri Schiavo is in the process of dying, that there is no hope of her getting better, and that she is living by artificial means such as life support. I would like to clear up these mistakes and list some facts that we do know. 1. Terri Schiavo has been connected to a feeding tube. She is not connected to heart pumps, respirators, or "life support." Simply put, this is not a matter of "pulling the plug" as we have been lead to believe. It will take several days for her to starve to death. She will suffer if starvation continues. 2. Her husband only made the claim that "she would not want to live this way," years after the fact. One would think that if she had not wished to live in a vegetative state (which she actually is not even in, more on this later) he would have mentioned that fact at the beginning of the process. 3. Michael Schiavo has already moved on. He has a common law wife and two children with a new woman. I am not condemning him for "moving on" but the very fact that he is already married to someone else should legally exclude him from being Terri Schiavo's "guardian." 4. Michael Schiavo discontinued Terri's therapy the very day that he received the funds from the medical malpractice lawsuit that was filed. At the time of the discontinued therapy, Terri could speak and her therapist says that with therapy Terri could possibly again talk. 5. Terri is not in a persistent vegetative state (PVS). The following is taken from http://www.cwu.edu/~chem/courses/Chem564/finalpapers/PVSfinal.html "Eye tracking and Emotional responses are the most common ways of determining whether a patient is responding, and therefore no longer in a vegetative state. The first sign of a patient emerging from PVS is the localizing of the eyes on a visual stimulus. This can be observed because persons in a vegetative state are unable to track moving objects or fixate their vision on an object, and as a patient recovers they regain this ability. This type of a response if most often detected by family members or caregivers that have worked directly with the patient. Eye tracking is not necessarily enough to show that a person is recovering from PVS because patients may not show any other evidence of other meaningful response to the environment. More difficulties with eye tracking may come into play because of the possibility of other neurological or ophthalmological damage that may prevent a patient from tracking stimuli. This means that a patient may actually have a degree of recovery that will be missed because it cannot be detected through eye tracking." Anyone that has seen videos of Schiavo can clearly see that her eyes followed the balloon placed in front of her. Her family has told other such stories, but the balloon video is just one good example. 6. A Noble prize nominated Doctor that has spent over 10 hours with Schiavo contends that she could be rehabilitated. 7. She is not in a coma and she does comprehend things. 8. Terri could go outside in a wheel chair; she could go home, or even be taken other places.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 06:31:01 PM EST
    There is no proof that Terri's wishes were to die if in this situation, so it should automatically be assumed that she wants to live. We should all have a living will or some equivalent to prevent this from happening to others. I don't accept anyone making such as decision for me.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 04:24:14 AM EST
    I don't understand how or when our government decided they can play God. Dr Kavorkian was ruled not to be able to take that control, why is the government?

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 07:43:40 AM EST
    Schiavo To me, given the facts that I have, the whole thing is foolishness. Fact 1 re; vegetative state. What’s that? Brain dead, no response, foolishness. The brain is not dead. If it were, it would decay. Normally, we only use 5 to 10 % of our brain. The other 90 is for reserve. It can retrain somewhat, and at least above other animals. Regardless, however, who cares? If someone wants her, that is their business. After all, as cruel as it may seam, if we can look after plants and animals that know nothing, we can look after someone in a vegetative state. In our society we look after all sorts of thing, so why not another human being. Fact 2 re: wants to die. Probably bull. Her alleged husband only said that after some time. There is nothing in writing, and how can you tell what you want when you haven’t been there, and when you are there, if you can’t speak, then no one really knows. Even if she said something before, she can change her mind especially in 15 years. The main consideration should be whether she is in pain or not. Fact 3 re: Her husband is living common law for about seven years. That is bigamy, and illegal in our society. Furthermore most people would divorce their spouse if their spouse was sleeping with someone else. She can’t because of her condition. Someone should act on her behalf, and divorce him. Furthermore, from what I am hearing, her husband now has a lot to gain if she dies. Fact 4 re: Her condition. What caused it? All that I have heard is that it was probably a potassium imbalance. Well, what caused that? There could be many reasons, but I have not heard any, and as far as I can determine, she has not had a potassium imbalance since, in spite of being fed through a tube, and thus now more prone to such an imbalance. We need to know more about her condition. Fact 5 re: Her parents wants to look after her, but her husband and courts will not allow it. Why not? In my opinion, as I said above, he should be divorced on her behalf. The grounds are obvious. Fact 6 re: Letting her starve. They say that she won’t feel anything. Foolishness. How do they know? How can they be sure? When an animal reaches the end, we put it down in a humane way. How can we let a human being starve? Contrary to what her husband’s lawyer said, people do give up eating before they die, but usually that is when they are dieing from something else, not when they are being starved. Starvation kills. Yours truly, M Best

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#51)
    by soccerdad on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:03:32 AM EST
    Fact 1 re; vegetative state. What’s that? Brain dead, no response, foolishness. The brain is not dead. If it were, it would decay. Normally, we only use 5 to 10 % of our brain. The other 90 is for reserve. The cat scans of her head have revealed what has been described as "massive" shrinkage which does indeed indicate a "decaying" brain. Second the EEG was described as "flat" meaning no cortical activity again indicating, at the least, a dead cortex. The fact that she breathes on her own indicates the medulla and pons (brainstem) is still functioning. However, the brainstem is only for automatic function. Cognitive function does not occur there, but occurs in the higher centers which in her case are not functioning, based on the reports. Given that the part of her brain which is responsible for cognitive function is dead, she will be unable to "preceive" pain. A stimulus applied to the periphery may elicit a twitch or slight movement simply because of spinal reflexes not involving the brain.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:28:44 AM EST
    Re: Given that the part of her brain, which is responsible for cognitive function, is dead she will be unable to "preceive" pain. Is pain a cognitive function? I thought that cognitive function is the ability to recognize, to think, to know. For example, when you look away, you know what you previously look at, is still there. In kids, cognitive function is developed by a certain age, yet they can feel pain immediately after and even before birth. In fact, this is probably a big consideration in abortions. I also thought that pain involved the brainstem and that in fact a twitch or slight movement, or reflexes, would indicate pain. Nevertheless, it has been a long time since I studied anatomy and physiology, so I could be wrong. I don’t think however that we can be sure.

    Re: Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 12:39:31 PM EST
    Re: Given that the part of her brain, which is responsible for cognitive function, is dead she will be unable to "perceive" pain. Is pain a cognitive function? I thought that cognitive function is the ability to recognize, to think, to know. For example, when you look away, you know what you previously look at, is still there. In kids, cognitive function is developed by a certain age, yet they can feel pain immediately after and even before birth. In fact, this is probably a big consideration in abortions. I also thought that pain involved the brainstem and that in fact a twitch or slight movement, or reflexes, would indicate pain. Nevertheless, it has been a long time since I studied anatomy and physiology, so I could be wrong. I don’t think however that we can be sure.

    Congress Reaches Deal on Terri Schiavo Case | 52 comments (52 topical)