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Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3pm ET

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 12:10:39 PM EST
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Update: The hearing adjourned without a ruling. The Judge said he understands that time is of the essence. Predictions?

Update: Liberal Common Sense has a profile of the Judge. Majikthise has a roundup of liberal blog coverage.

Bump and Update: There will be a hearing at 3pm ET in federal court on Terri Schiavo's parents request to reinsert the feeding tube.

The case will be heard by United States District Judge James D. Whittemore, who was appointed to the court in 1999 by President Clinton. David Gibbs II, a lawyer for the Schindlers, told The Associated Press that the judge had sent a message saying he was reviewing the filings in the case.

Bush's statement:

President Bush said in a statement just after 1 a.m.: "In cases like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws, and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life. This presumption is especially critical for those like Terri Schiavo, who live at the mercy of others."

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    • Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3pm ET | 65 comments (65 topical)
    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#1)
    by nolo on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:16:58 AM EST
    Sign another judge up for around-the-clock security.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:23:39 AM EST
    What Misplaced Morality? Of course, the Left supports your right to Life. That is, if you happen to be a Convicted Murderer. However, should you have the audacity to be an innocent unborn baby, or an innocent human being sans living will - forget it. Your as good as dead, as far as the Left is concerned. What ever happened to our society being judged upon how we treat those least among us? My, what a great "progressive" society we've built here... Its no wonder 87% of the fastest growing counties in the US went Republican in 2004... And is it any wonder that you fools must rely on activist judges and censorship of debate to 'progess' your agenda? No, it isn't.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:35:55 AM EST
    What ever happened to our society being judged upon how we treat those least among us? What a joke. Radicals seem to concern themselves with death at the beginning and end of lives but care little about what happens to those that die during the in between stages.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:36:38 AM EST
    Wow. Didn't you post almost the exact same thing in another thread? Come back when you actually have something new to say. Also, opinion polls have shown almost overhwelmingly, most Americans WOULDN'T want to be kept alive if they were like Terri. So I guess that means everyone must be a aborting, euthanasia anti disability left wing liberal. Or maybe most people want a decent end to their life. I somehow doubt that this judge, or any other judge, will over turn this. It's already been adjucated by how many courts by now? More if you include the bill that Jeb Bush called a legislative session for, and the Federal Supreme Court refused to take it.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#5)
    by nolo on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:40:14 AM EST
    Horse, more people in America support taking Terri Schiavo off the feeding tube than voted for Bush in the first place (warning-- link is to a .pdf file).

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#6)
    by Sailor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:42:42 AM EST
    bush is such a hypocrite, as TX gov he signed the Texas Futile Care Law where health care providers, not the patient or family, decide when to pull the plug on someone depending on their financial status. This schiavo bill comes at the same time he's cutting medicaid.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:48:58 AM EST
    fastest growing counties means nothing it's a percentage game not a gross numbers game as usual you are a horse's patoot the counties listed are tiny rural counties another example of spin but not the truth

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 11:21:18 AM EST
    Horse With no Name has been limited to four comments a day. All in excess will be deleted.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 11:22:10 AM EST
    Hi, Horse. Still haven't answered my questions. Here they are again: In your opinion, is the question of what to do in situations such as vegetative states, artificial extension of life, etc, etc ALWAYS one in which low-level cns functions must be sustained by any means necessary? A follow-up: Suppose the living will is crystal clear but conflicts with the religious beliefs of the patient's kin and the background in which s/he was raised. Do those kin have the right to have the living will annulled?

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 11:42:54 AM EST
    deleted

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 11:43:40 AM EST
    "In cases like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws, and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life
    Too bad this logic didn't apply prior to our invasion of Iraq.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#13)
    by Kitt on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 12:34:48 PM EST
    "This schiavo bill comes at the same time he's cutting medicaid." Sailor: That was brought up a couple of times last night during the debate. I don't know if Terri Schiavo is relying on Medicaid at all. I do know that Medicaid does limit the use of MRIs and the like of patients who are not systemic anew or their condition or diagnosis has not changed. I was stunned by what I've learned about Medicaid coverages. Plus, Medicaid covers people like my nephew who has Williams Syndrome and will never be an independently functioning member of society.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 12:36:46 PM EST
    Michael Schiavo has apparently overcome that presumption because more than 25 judges have sided with him and agreed that he has met the burden of proving that he is in fact carrying out Terri's wishes. Can't there also be a presumption that most people would choose to die with dignity rather than be turned into a spectacle, a poltical pawn and a martyr for a misguided family? If the Repubs want to bring this issue to the people and pass laws that reflect their "culture of life" policy then so be it. If a majority agree then get your laws passed and we'll live with it. But stop manipulating, disregarding and disgracing our courts.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 12:37:23 PM EST
    I think a case could be made that the Left picks the worst cases possible to fight the wrong battles. The Terri Schiavo case isn't about "Right to Die"- it is whether or not her husband (who has a lot to gain from her death) can pull the plug without clear instruction from Terri herself. I personally do not want Judges determining whose plug to kick out, and I do not think it is right for Mr Schiavo to do so either as long as her parents still have hope. If Terri herself had done a living will, THEN that is a whole different story. Why everyone wants to watch her starve is beyond me- what point is proven? That A husband can blandly make the life and death call of his incapacitated wife? That a judge can? By the way, the bill signed by Gov Bush came after at least one veto and a couple of threatened ones. The resulting bill was a marked improvement, although not what the Bush wanted. He has been consistent on this issue.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 12:41:44 PM EST
    "The real issue in this case, however, deals with treatment options for Terry Schiavo and whether or not they will have any positive affect so as to "significantly improve her quality of life". The treatment options essentially were the vasodilatation therapy offered by Dr. Hammesfahr and the hyperbaric therapy proposed by Dr. Maxfield. "While none of the doctors are really involved in stem cell therapy, it was discussed at great length by each of them. Perhaps one of the few agreements between these experts is that stem cell research is currently at the experimental stage and is years away from being accepted either medically or politically. It would not appear from the testimony that this is a viable treatment option at this time." "Neither Dr. Hammesfahr (Noble Prize in Medicine) nor Dr. Maxfield was able to credibly testify that the treatment options that they offered would significantly improve Terry Schiavo's quality of life." link Terri Schiavo information page by abstractappeal

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 12:42:53 PM EST
    we must keep her alive long enough for her family to apply for bankruptcy. It's God's will.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 12:52:54 PM EST
    Watch the next moves by the Talipublicans -- the legislate away living wills!

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 12:53:38 PM EST
    that should have been ..."to legislate away living wills."

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 12:53:47 PM EST
    This spectacle is truly one of the most embarrassing yet from this government. My questions for the Right: 1. How can you seriously treat a man who lectures about the "sanctity of life," who presided over many executions as the governor of Texas (and who actually went on television to mock one of his victim's pleas for her life)? 2. How can the religious right, which preaches that wives should be subservient to their husbands, be outraged when a husband fulfills his manly duties by making a decision for his wife? I do have to wonder whether the Right is over-compensating on Shiavo for their war and torture guilt. Asherone

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    I still haven't figured out how her husband has "so much to gain", as is being constantly suggested by certain folks. Considering the great link above to abstract appeal, it seems as if the malpractice award has been largely eaten up by her care. And it sounds like her husband and his girlfriend have been great to Terry. This seems like just so much cover to mask the massive attacks on the most vulnerable in America by the Talipublicans. And with DeLay leading the way, claiming the ethical high ground? HeeHee.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#21)
    by Dadler on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    gerry owen, just what are these things that michael schavio has to gain from her death? he could've taken ten million to relinquish his rights! life is full of tough, terrible decisions, as republicans always reminds us bleeding hearts. but when one of them is useful for their partisan political purposes, all principles are off and it's federal power to the max. single mother? poor child? unemployed? f*uck you! but now, we care SO much. b.s. pathetic, selfish, hypocritical as*holes.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:03:15 PM EST
    And what are her parents doing cavorting with that maniac Randall Terry? That by itself seems to say it all.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:07:20 PM EST
    I think a case could be made that the Left picks the worst cases possible to fight the wrong battles. The Terri Schiavo case isn't about "Right to Die"- Ummm...most people are not classifying it as a right to die, so much as what the current law says in respect to wills, marital spouses and the choice of healthcare for their partners, and as indicated by this recent chicanery, whether or not Congress has any business nuetering the decisions of multiple courts. This move essentially threatens to invalidate any jdugement the current majority in Congress dislikes. If this starts becoming a habit, its going to be ridiculous in this country. it is whether or not her husband (who has a lot to gain from her death) can pull the plug without clear instruction from Terri herself. He actually has little to nothing to gain. Most of the money has been spent fighting this case, and he has even been offered money to drop the whole issue. It simply hasn't happened, because for whatever reason, he doesn't want the money. I personally do not want Judges determining whose plug to kick out, and I do not think it is right for Mr Schiavo to do so either as long as her parents still have hope. Unfortuantly 200 years of jurisprudence says, amazingly, courts can adjucate wills. This is not some high moral horse issue. It's the issue of who has legal rights to decide issues when put into a state where the individual cannot render judgements. Courts accept the husband as her guardian.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:10:39 PM EST
    I can see it now....if the Judge rules against the parents, it will be the work of a "Clinton appointment". (read with the appropriate wingnut sneer!)

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:13:22 PM EST
    Gerry Owen: You don't know what you're talking about. No offense. If I said I knew the right solution for Schiavo, I wouldn't know what I was talking about either. I think it's entirely a private matter which only the close relatives can settle. That's the point. The courts looked long and hard at the evidence. It was repealed and they looked again. But the Congress is as clueless as you and me. So, what on earth are they doing illegally intervening? That is the question. And the answer is that last night, Tom Delay and George Bush succeeded in gaining the power to void any and all legal decisions they care to disagree with. That, my friend, is fascism. As it happens, I do have an opinion about fascism. Short version: double plus bad for the future of democracy in this country.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:20:40 PM EST
    I just love all these conservatives who for years have been screaming about reducing government and how "oppressive" government is now want the government overruling personal medical decisions. 70% of all Americans, according to the latest polls, are in agreement with Michael Schiavo on this matter - most people realize the slippery slope this is: If government can overrule personal medical decisions (and I'll take Michael Schiavo's word over Tom Delay's word anyday), then what's next? Do some of you REALLY want the government making your medical decisions for you, because that's what will eventually happen.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#27)
    by Patrick on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:31:35 PM EST
    Ally, Think national health care! I do not know what should be done with her, but it seems reasonable that ending her life through dehydration and/or starvation are not the hallmarks of a civilized society.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:36:04 PM EST
    Patrick, Neither is keeping her artifically alive when she has no chance at regaining normalcy.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:37:25 PM EST
    If Congress really cared about Terri Schiavo, they would have come up with the funds to try to secure a cure to her situation rather than plug the feeding tube back in and walk away (maybe for another 15 years). Now that all the posturing politicians have had their say, they can add another good deed to the list when fund raising. Playing politics with someone's life doesn't seem to go against their moral convictions concerning the sanctity of life.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:51:26 PM EST
    Maybe its just my base, but I have a number of republican friends that find Bush, et al's behavior disgusting and extremely troubling in this situation.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:53:39 PM EST
    The "human political ragdoll" dog and pony show continues..... I'm trying not to think about, the whole thing makes me want to vomit. I know the family asked for this mess by bringing their saga to their courts, but I still feel sorry for them all, especially the husband, who seems to be the only one in this for truly unselfish reasons.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#32)
    by Kitt on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:10:06 PM EST
    Sherpa - I don't know...I live in a blue spot in the midst of a red, red state and some of the Repubs we know aren't at all happy with what's going on. I try to not do that little Snoopy happy dance when they tell me anything like that so I force myself to remember they still voted for that jacka**. My husband said at the hospital this morning people were discussing the Schiavo case which he thought unusual as cases like this aren't routinely discussed. One of the interesting points he said he heard was how as a parent would he react? Would he want this for his daughter?

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#33)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:20:19 PM EST
    So keeping her locked into a nonfunctional body for years is preferable to days of, IMHO, nonexistent discomfort, and the end of her (supposed) suffering. If she was cognizant, which she most certainly is not, wouldn't it be inhumane to keep her in that state? IMHO she really isn't aware of her situation anyway so this really is political. You can keep her alive for as long as possible. It won't matter to her. You can withdraw aeverything. It won't matter to her. Nothing matters to her. She is not aware. Her brain is like a dried out apple core. This has been determined something like 25 times in the last 15 years. Randall Terry is a POS. Ally, Apparently you missed the bloodless coup that took place in this country in 2000.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#34)
    by Patrick on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:22:48 PM EST
    Neither is keeping her artifically alive when she has no chance at regaining normalcy. I wouldn't claim to be able to define normalcy in this day and age. Nor would I dare speak for her as I'm not in her or her family's shoes, thank God. Your statement may well be true, but it is disputed by people with more information about the case (Medical and legal) than me.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:22:55 PM EST
    If merely removing the feeding tube is inhumane then I guess people support physician assisted suicide. I know I do. Of course the Bushco took the STATE of Oregon to court over that even thought the PEOPLE of Oregon voted for it. Bush -no level of hypocrisy is too low to stoop

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#36)
    by Dadler on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:23:16 PM EST
    this judge will rule for michael schavio. who knows what after that. but i can't see this being a judge to uphold this wingnut grandstanding.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:24:29 PM EST
    The most interesting thing about this case is that the Republicans, who have traditionally postured in favor of states' rights, want to use "big government" to save the day when it suits their agenda. (It's not the first time, BTW. Anyone remember what happened after the Rodney King trial?) And the state of Florida has said time and again that Michael Schiavo can have his wife's feedings stopped. I don't necessarily want Terry Schiavo to die. But I also don't believe she should be a living martyr, not when her life, already diminished by catastrophic events 15 years ago, has been turned into a giant circus that she probably knows nothing about. I feel for Terry's parents, but I also believe that her husband needs to be responsible and accountable for making sure Terry's wishes are met. The courts, the parents and the President need not put this union asunder.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:31:43 PM EST
    If, at the conclusion of the hearing, the judge didn't enter a temporary order putting the tube back in pending his ruling, then there is a pretty decent chance that he's going to uphold what the Florida courts have already determined.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#39)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:34:01 PM EST
    I have no dog in this particular fight and have barely paid attention to it, but I did hear a doc say today that in his decades of experience with this type of non-responsive patient, he's seen that some who die relatively quickly and some who live, like Terri, for extended lengths of time. And that in his opinion it is the patient's active and ongoing will to live - or not live - that dictates the result.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#40)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:35:30 PM EST
    I wonder if the fight would be as vocal if she had a living will....

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:42:56 PM EST
    Terry Schiavo is not in a vegetative state. Terry Schiavo is not in a vegetative state. Terry Schiavo is not in vegetative state.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:51:00 PM EST
    I predict that the judge will never ever speak again to the person who assigned him to this case.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:51:58 PM EST
    This is great people are starting to understand and fighting back against insane government, remember it could be you next.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#44)
    by nolo on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 03:04:32 PM EST
    Unless there is something waaaaay egregiously bad about how the Florida proceedings were conducted (and given the extensive appellate review they've already received, I doubt there is), this judge is going to toss the Schindler family's claims right out. The only interesting bet is whether he's going to rule on the propriety of the enabling legislation. My 2 cents.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#45)
    by nolo on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 03:06:17 PM EST
    Sorry-- change that last sentence to "The only interesting bet is how he's going to rule on the propriety of the enabling legislation." I understand Schiavo's arguments had a lot of direct challenges.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 03:07:32 PM EST
    Patrick, I'm basing my thoughts about "normalcy" bases upon what many neurolgists and other doctors have said about the fact that she has zero chance of recovery. I have a sneaking suspicion they know what they are talking about. Che's Lounge, Oh, I was here all right. Naively, I never thought they'd go this far. Individual privacy and the ability to make our own decisions is slipping through our fingers faster then quicksand and few seem to care. Fred Dawes, I hope you're right, but don't hold your breath. As long as there is reality TV, Michael Jackson, etc. too many people will be happy to sit on their asses and let Bush decide what is best for them.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 03:11:32 PM EST
    Prediction? If the Judge rules in favor of the husband, the American Taliban will, in the furtherance of their respect for life, sentence the Judge to death.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#48)
    by nolo on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 03:18:05 PM EST
    silo, that's the part that's been freaking me out for a while. Judge Greer, the Florida trial judge who's been stuck with all this, travels with armed guards. The only role the Federal government ought to have taken in this case was to send the FBI to investigate the death threats for the terrorist acts they are.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 04:02:45 PM EST
    This is the most serious threat to the santity of marriage I've ever seen. If the feds can step in and take this decision away from a spouse, what's to stop them from making our financial decisions for us, or career choices? Oh, yeah. I keep forgetting the Taliban is in charge here.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 04:11:30 PM EST
    quality of life: for me, that is your heart(body) and brain(mind) functioning to some self determining level, with brain function being most important, imo. if nothing else; this hopefully has motivated many to address this type of situations now, being of sound mind and body. i am beginning research to understand all the options available for myself, spouse and family. it troubles me to learn from lawyers here that even a written/taped directive may/could be overturned/voided. stop the madness, now!

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 04:58:23 PM EST
    It comes down to this: The wingnuts smear campaign against Michael Schiavo has completely backfired. All their bs has completely been refuted beyond any doubt. I see no proof or any indication to why Michael would have any ulteriour motives in this matter. Michael Schiavo apparently cared and never abused her (read the link from my previous post above). He could have run of with 10$ million.. He didn´t. The Christian Right´s motives have on the other hand been very clear: Smear down / demonize Mr Schiavo and force the courts to terminate his legal guardian status. I don´t know how I managed the feat of finding Abstract Appeal (big creds to the blooger and his well made comprehensive study). Believe me, it wasn´t easy.. Thank Goood I had to sift through tons of wingnut s*** on Google first (keywords: Assault, Murder, Killer..) before I finally found the site. What would you expect? Information is scarce, it´s the Dark Ages..

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 05:06:57 PM EST
    Who besides me thinks that this is a grand shemce for the republican conservatives to come out of this, though they will lose in the end as having done thier hardest to keep alive an innocent woman?

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 05:22:32 PM EST
    "In cases like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws, and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life.
    Sure Geogie always use the presumption of law in favor of life. Just how many times did you do this when deciding death penalty cases as Gov. of Texas.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 05:25:03 PM EST
    If the judge had any misgivings about ruling for the husband he would have reinserted the tube pending decision. There is no apparent legal reason to overrule the decision of the Florida courts. One would hope that the President and the idiots in Congress would be big enough to gracefully defer to the judge's ruling but they will vilify him and basically put a bullseye on his back.I do fear for this judge's life. The Culture of life camp will surely spawn some prolife nut who willof course try to kill the judge and that will be a whole new circus for the media. The greatest legacy this poor woman can have is to force all of us to address this issue NOW and document our wishes including a clear statement that we want the government to stay the hell out of our personal lives.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#55)
    by jimcee on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 05:57:59 PM EST
    I long for the "olden days" as my Gramma used to say. This was a family matter and should have been settled in the privacy of the collective family but unfortunately politics, philosphy and possibly economics, has intervened. The state judge was wrong to rule in the first instance for Mr Schiavo has no "paper proof" exists of Mrs Schiavo's wishes. Why a judge of any sort should be injected into this kind case shows a personal animosity between paternal relatives and "in-law" relatives that will never be settled by the courts, the congress or any other political presence. Who knows what has gone on in the past between the two families over the years? The parents want their child to live regardless of her condition and are willing to visit her and well, mourn her in thier own way. Mr Shiavo wants her dead, period. He has said as much all over the airwaves in the last couple of days. He says she would want it that way but has no proof except his own family's here-say. Compassion is an odd thing. Mr Shiavo has none for his "wife's" family and a rather dubious claim to his own. He has been given the chance to walk away and live his life with his "fiance" and his two kids but has chosen this sad campaign into the courts. If this case tells us anything it is that 1) Politics and family do not mix, 2) That the media can't resist this story. I really think Mr Shiavo should back off or should kill her himself instead of using the courts and the medical community to starve his wife to death in proxy. This whole situation makes me sad. Anyone's attempt to politicize it makes me ill.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#56)
    by karen on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:11:24 PM EST
    I believe she is gone gone gone. That said, I wonder why giving her to the parents is not the compassionate response? Terri is gone, does not know what state she is in. So, it won't hurt her to keep her this way, I wonder if the people hurting are her parents and maybe they should get to keep this pointless vigil as long as they can stand it?? I am against all the crap going on right now with the congress. i believe she should be allowed to die. But, trying to think like a Buddhist where compassion is the most important consideration, the people needing compassion are the parents.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:15:39 PM EST
    I read that this law required a two-thirds majority to pass and it passed by more than that. Who are the Democrats who voted for it and why did they? Scary prediction - this law is ruled unconstitutional by every federal court it's appealed to until it reaches the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court will, by a 5-4 majority, issue another non-precedent setting ruling ordering the feeding restarted and terminating Michael Schiavo's spousal rights. A year later the Florida legislature passes a law similar to the one Bush signed as Governor of Texas, but it will specifically exclude Terri Schiavo. Sleep well, living in America...

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:08:44 PM EST
    The Schindler's apparently haven't been able to demonstrate a likelihood of success on the merits (how could they after losing a 15 year long battle in the state courts), so the only interesting question is whether the judge finds the statute to be unconstitutional and on what basis. After Whittemore has his say, you know it's going to SCOTUS either directly or via the 11th Circuit. The Repubs basically blew it: there are 7 judges in MD Fl, and some of them aren't Bush or Reagan appointee. Live by the sword; die by the sword.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#58)
    by jerry on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:08:32 PM EST
    More bull.. He belives in the right to life huh, how about all that died on death row during his Texas watch. This weasel will say whatever Karl Rove tells him to that will make him look good. I can't understand how half of our citizens voted for this fraud.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:11:06 PM EST
    Yes, I know.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#61)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:13:34 PM EST
    Tristero- Frankly, I think the Congress intervening in this isolated case is a lot less intrusive than a judiciary deciding who lives and who dies. Unlike dearest no name, I prefer them to stick to ajudicating wills of people who are ALREADY DEAD. This is a private family matter that would seem to have spun out of control when Mr Schiavo had his falling out with the family in 93. It was not until 98 that he filed to have her killed. I'm all for living wills and DNR orders, and I would go so far as to suggest that if several close friends and family members were willing to testify that was the individuals wishes, then so be it. But one person claiming she said something at the end of a movie does not conclusive proof make. The family has hope, let them assume the reponsibility and Mr Schiavo needs to get on with his life.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#62)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:30:16 PM EST
    I say we eliminate spousal rights entirely. Make marriage a purely religious institution, with spouses having no special rights over each other's lives, except as they may provide for in explicit legal documents. Eliminate special marriage benefits as well, such as tax breaks. This would eliminate the church-state seperation issue in marriage. It would even eliminate the gay marriage issue. And Terri Schiavo's parents would get what they want. Either marriage means something or it doesn't.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#63)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:59:17 PM EST
    "ITristero- Frankly, I think the Congress intervening in this isolated case is a lot less intrusive than a judiciary deciding who lives and who dies. " Talk about cynical framing! That's like describing an opponent of abortion "pro-coathanger." The only people who come close to playing God in this circus are Tom DeLay and George W. Bush. To be frank (since you were), they've got a lot of damn gall thinking they can play God. But they have succeeded in demonstrating that they are constrained by nothing but their own will to power. They can and will use their power to void any court decision they disagree with. Nothing will restrain them. And if you think it stops with this one specific law and specific case, that this is the only time such fanatics will determine they know better than the legal system what is fair, what is just, there's a bridge in my town I'd like to sell you. This is fascism.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#64)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 06:23:08 AM EST
    Tristero- You are defying logic. The President et al are standing behind the status quo, not wanting a judiciary to make decisions to the detriment of those most helpless. The Judges in this case have so far deemed their robes sufficiently powerful enough to kill innocents. If there is a tyranny here, you are failing to see it.

    Re: Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3p (none / 0) (#65)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 07:51:45 AM EST
    The spin is amazing. Michael should move on with his life, michael is greedy, michael is trying to kill her, blah blah blah. I agree with some of the posts relative to a comment after a movie and the depth to which they discussed "what ifs". How many different judges found in favor of Michael? The spin about the family is equally as obscene "let them grieve in their own way". Let me say loud and clear, My family has NO RIGHT to grieve their own way over my brain dead living corpse. But that is what is at issue here. Michael believes that she did not want to exist in this state and he is fighting for HER, as I would fully do for my wife and as I would expect her to do for me. Get a living will or you get to be a poster child for the religious right.

    Terri Schiavo: Federal Court Hearing Today, 3pm ET | 65 comments (65 topical)