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Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 11:20:01 PM EST
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What kind of parents let their ten year old kid get arrested? Answer: Anti-abortion activists, like those out in force at the Florida hospice where Terri Schiavo is spending her final days.

Earlier at the hospice, veteran pro-life activists skilled in civil disobedience at abortion clinics joined demonstrators to orchestrate the peaceful arrest of 10 people, including three children, ages 10 to 14.

Those arrested were charged with trespassing after their staged attempt to carry Styrofoam cups of water into the hospice. "It's an act of Biblical obedience, not civil disobedience," said Chet Gallagher, 55, a former Las Vegas motorcycle policeman turned anti-abortion activist with Operation Rescue. Gallagher, fired from his job in 1989 after he joined anti-abortion demonstrators whom he was supposed to arrest, has been jailed "at least 100 times" for his activism, he said. Each stepped up to waiting officers, then knelt down and acknowledged that they still wanted to proceed into the hospice.

Police then notified them that they were being arrested, helped them to their feet, and handcuffed each of them, including Chris Key, 43, of Texas, and three of his children. The adults were taken to the Pinellas County Jail. The children went to a juvenile center.

"My 10-year-old said that Jesus said, `If you offer a cup of water in my name, you did it for me.' And he told me that's what he wanted to do," said Key's wife, Gaylen.

Where's Gloria Allred and why isn't she demanding that Social Services remove these kids from their parents custody like she did with Michael Jackson?

< Jackson Prosecution Witness Jailed in Las Vegas | Supreme Court Denies Schiavo Relief >

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    Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested | 73 comments (73 topical)
    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#1)
    by Darryl Pearce on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 10:59:01 PM EST
    Alexandre Dumas said, "I prefer rogues to imbeciles, because they sometimes take a rest."

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 11:00:36 PM EST
    that's some serious dedicaton. if we could only turn these people against the death penalty.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 11:14:58 PM EST
    Where's Gloria Allred and why isn't she demanding that Social Services remove these kids from their parents custody like she did with Michael Jackson? Perhaps because allowing your child to carry a styrofoam cup of water is kind of different than sexually molesting children, wouldn't you agree????? hmmmm....

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 11:20:36 PM EST
    Sarcastically, why dont these would-be aborters just say that thier children will grow up to be Muslim. Perhaps then, their abortions wouldnt been seen as murder but apart of the war on terrorism.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 11:20:49 PM EST
    The relevant comparison is obviously intentionally having your child arrested, not having them carry water. But arguing with strawmen must be much more fun for you.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 11:24:34 PM EST
    WasherDreyer: Precisely.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 12:29:09 AM EST
    thank you for using this pic. i knew you would like it. but its a sad world we live in.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#9)
    by Johnny on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 01:10:19 AM EST
    I hop these parents realize their kids police records prevent them from EVER being accepted into society, i hope it was worth expressing ther personal political viewpoint to ruin their kids lives Because as every conservative knows, you life is your own, personal accountability and all that. Go ahead repugs, eat it up, you are teaching your kids a valuable lesson. myself? I would NEVER hire one of these kids, simply because they have a rapsheet, and reformation DOES not exist. Eat it up. nice try, way to use the innocent to make a political point. hows your kids doing?

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 03:34:30 AM EST
    this is a disgrace to this once great country, hitler would be so proud if he could see this picture,, i hope the cops that did this are proud of themselves,, they look lile real men,, ha ha

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#11)
    by cp on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 04:27:15 AM EST
    oh, i'm sure the cops were just thrilled to be there! these people have no shame, they are utterly convinced that only they know god's wish's, because randall "child support, you don't need no stinkin' child support! terry tells them so. who knows, maybe they're right, and the rest of us are all going to hell in a hand basket. somehow though, i doubt this is what jesus would do.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#12)
    by Lis Riba on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 04:33:06 AM EST
    And, of course, what would happen if these kids succeed? T.S. was on a feeding tube. If somebody actually were to force a cup of water down her throat, she'd choke. What an even better way of traumatizing a kid: either they get arrested or they kill the person they're trying to "save"

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 05:06:04 AM EST
    "using kids" that is the key here. A ten year old has no way of comprehending all the facts surrounding the case and cannot form their own opinion toward the issue. If god cares so much why doesn't he just tell her to get up and walk and do some calculus? Where is Benny Hinn when you need him?

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#15)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 05:14:34 AM EST
    why don't those kids pray to god for him/her to do something, surely an omnipotent god can intervene? Funny how christians give god the credit when science has kept her alive all this time. If god wants her alive and there is a god, then i would reckon something will be done by god, of course if nothing happens will the christians say what they always say "god has his reasons" blah blah blah.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#16)
    by John Mann on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 05:36:14 AM EST
    I don't think there are very many places in the world where we can see little kids being handcuffed and placed in police cars. (Of course in the United States, the kid might've had an AK-47 or a 50 cal. assault rifle stuffed down his pantleg, so I suppose it's best to be safe.) The hateful and arrogant rogue nation America has become since Ronald Reagan's presidency is one of those places.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 05:39:34 AM EST
    its wrong to use children and bring them to events such as this. Amy I recall that many postes in here found it distasteful when they would see little kids with Bush or Kerry stickers during the election. Childhood is the one time these worries are not present and as Jlvint pointed out there is no way for a 10 or 11 year old to comprehend these events in a meaningful way.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 05:47:03 AM EST
    Yes, these right wingers are nuts but I'll bet you lefties wouldn't say a word if a ten year old got arrested for protesting war, use of animal fur, or anything else you protesters protest!!!

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 05:47:40 AM EST
    Amy: Serious political protest demonstrations are never a place for young children. It is only a matter of time before a tragedy occurs. I question your historical analogy and ask you to prove it or retract it. In '68, I was 16 years old. I was against the Vietnam War and for King's freedom marches, like every other 16 year old with a brain who cared enough about politics to form an opinion. My parents wouldn't let me anywhere near a demo. When I was 17/18, I remember going to several demonstrations. I don't remember any young kids there. We were -correctly- afraid we would get our heads bashed in. Kent State was about to happen. I'm sure there were plenty of liitle kids at the "nice" safe candlelight marches and maybe at theatrical stunts like the Pentagon levitation. It is also possible that some of the racial protests had some kids in it, but I don't think there that many black families with little kids standing together during Selma. In other words, at the confrontational ones, roughly analagous in terms of physical danger only to the clown show in Florida, I sincerely doubt there were that many folks who brought little children along in order to get arrested. But if you have documentary proof that, say, during the Chicago protests of '68 there were 10 year olds getting arrested with their moms, I'll happily correct myself.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 05:50:17 AM EST
    Moderate: My 8 year old kid loves PETA kids and lectures us constantly on the evils of PetCo. It really upsets her. I would never, ever permit her to get into a situation where she stood the possibility of getting arrested during a protest. That would be child neglect.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 06:07:57 AM EST
    No matter the cause, using your kids as pawns to make a statement is pretty sick. As the saying goes, you need a license to drive, but any old mutant can have a kid.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 06:10:08 AM EST
    I have to agree with Amy. From an article about the response to Dr. King's Birmingham arrest: "On May 2, children, ranging in age from six to eighteen, gathered in Kelly Ingram Park, across the street from Sixteenth Street Baptist Church. Around 1:00, fifty teenagers left the church and headed for downtown, singing 'We Shall Overcome.' They were arrested and placed in police vans. Another group left the church, and they were also put in vans. Another group left, and another. Soon the police began stuffing the protesters in school buses because there were no more vans. Three hours later, there were 959 children in jail. The jails were absolutely packed." It has been argued many times that images of police arresting children and spraying them with fire hoses is what started to move many moderates to understand and support the civil rights movement. Whether to allow your children to be placed in harm's way for a cause is a difficult issue, but some causes are so important that it makes sense to involve your children. Of course, one major difference between children's participation in the civil rights movement and this situation is that if the civil rights movement did not make progress, the children themselves would suffer for it. Here, other than the more abstract harm of living in a world where we allow this sort of thing to happen, the children whose parents are allowing them to get arrested now would be able to grow up healthy and safe irrespective of the success of their parents' cause.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#23)
    by Kitt on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 06:20:41 AM EST
    "C'mon, folks. If this kid were being arrested for civil disobedience protesting racism or sexism, we'd be heaping praise on the parents for teaching the kid to stand up for what he believes in." Let's stay on task here. They weren't protesting anything significant. They were being exploited...by stupid parents and a cause sans celibre. Using Styrofoam cups, so wrong for the environment. Oh yeah - Terri Schiavo's swallowing function - just about nonexistent which is the why of the feeding tube. IF she could swallow she would have liquid and solids via conventional routes; however she cannot. How many times does this have to be brought up before it's understood?

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 06:24:16 AM EST
    if if if.and yet no children have been arrested at pro peace or pro choice demos.. and this is not the first time the right has done something like this and if you know the history of the civil rights movements -those children were fully informed and went in the face of great concern on the part of their parents

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 06:27:18 AM EST
    scout interesting point. I wonder what the discrepancies were in the six to eighteen age group. Were they mostly eight year-olds or late teenagers? I think there is a big difference. I agree some causes children do intervene because the group is protesting something so devastating there is little choice but to take to the streets. I think these times though are very few and far between...

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 06:28:47 AM EST
    I think some ten year olds may have absorbed a lot of emotional understanding of the world from their parents and immediate family. I think that some ten year olds have the capacity to take part in civil disobedience and I respect civil disobedience in service of conscience very much. If these children were truly motivated from within on this, I have no problem. Like Tristero, I was draft age during the Tet Offensive. I was at demonstrations and marches in Austin at 16. My parents were worried but supportive. Never got arrested or injured, but that was always a possibility. The styrofoam is stupid, but lots of churches use them. Maybe too narrow on their focus as stewards.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 06:50:04 AM EST
    PS Will these children be volunteering in the hospice or nursing homes that will be running out of money because the Republicans have cut medicaid

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#28)
    by libdevil on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:00:32 AM EST
    Wow, with that kind of false equivalence, Amy could work for the NYT. Of course lefties are just as bad as right wingers, except that of course there's no evidence that we really are. But who needs evidence? Amy knows what we would do in her fantasy world, and that's good enough, right?

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:12:17 AM EST
    I think you make a good point in re Birmingham, but I am not entirely convinced that is analogous to Schiavo. Here's two reasons why. Argument One Yes, you can make the case that the kids were used to send a political message of tremendous power. And yes, they were placed in some (arguably, great) danger, given that it was Birmingham. However, marching down a street singing a hymn is nowhere near the same level of protest as trying to force your way past police and security. The former is a guaranteed right. The latter truly is breaking the law. An adult may choose to break the law in the name of civil disobedience, but s/he does so knowing that it really is against the law. Obviously, this is a gray example with a lot of ambiguity. Everyone knew there were risks. But the fact is that no real laws were broken in Birmingham except maybe blocking traffic. Argument Two I'll grant you that as a parent I would never have permitted my kid to participate in the Birmingham action. But there is a considerable difference here with Schiavo. In Birmingham, the parents and children were the actual victims, not the potential victims, of atrocious racial discrimination. In Schiavo, neither the parents nor the children are, by no stretch of the imagination being directly victimized. You can argue that Schiavo herself is a victim, but not you yourself. But the kids in Birmingham really were the victims of oppression and prejudice. As with Soweto, where the riots started with school kids, that justifies the kids being there.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:16:13 AM EST
    typo in argument two. Change "no stretch" to "any stretch" and the meaning should be clear.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:20:07 AM EST
    Amy Yes, I think the cause in Schiavo is wrong. But even it was right, I'd never permit my kid anywhere close to a situation like that. My family went to the large rallies in NYC before the Iraq war, with my daugher. We marched with a huge contingent from her school. We were, literally, miles away from the CD and if I had seen any, we would have been out of there in a flash.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:27:43 AM EST
    Amy, sorry one more point. I want to stress that Schiavo is not that significant because the kids and parents who were arrested were by no stretch of the imagination direct victims of the Schiavo trial. Only Schiavo might be - and even then, you are standing not on firm moral ground universally accepted in a civil society, but on the specific moral convictions of religious fanatics which can only be justified through their very skewed biblical interpretation. And that is conceding a very important point: that the people who are protesting down there are actually sincere. I'm not sure I'm prepared to concede that until I know for certain they weren't paid by right wing operatives, a la the white collar riot of 2000.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:40:51 AM EST
    I think that if children are motivated from within to take part in civil disobedience, they should do it. I'd certainly have caveats about very little children - say younger than 8 - but I think it's quite possible a 10-year-old could be motivated from themselves. (My opinion about the Schiavo case can be found here.) I would unequivocably oppose parents who so much as strongly encouraged their children to take part in civil disobedience actions, no matter what their political complexion. It has to be a matter of choice from within. I am uneasy about children getting arrested, however - I hope that whatever police facility they are taken to has a proper understanding of how to behave towards minors in custody.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#36)
    by Kitt on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:49:50 AM EST
    The Supreme Court just denied the request from Terri Schiavo's parents. Damned activist judges!

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:52:23 AM EST
    Jesurgislac: My eight year old has a lot of inner motivations. Most of them, thank God, are mature beyond her years. A few are wildly immature. If my child, even in two years, demanded that she participate in cd against Petco, I would refuse her demand. Anything else is child negelect. The parents of the kids arrested over Schiavo should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. That they won't be prosecuted at all for child neglect is a sign of how truly insane this country's priorities have become under Bush.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#38)
    by Kitt on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:56:29 AM EST
    "Without any comment or recorded dissent, the high court turned down the request from the parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, for an order preventing any further withholding of nutrition and hydration from their 41-year-old daughter." The Supreme Court's action marked the fourth time since January that it has refused to intervene in the emotional right-to-die case in which Christian activists have supported the parents against Terri Schiavo's husband and guardian, Michael Schiavo."

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 07:59:27 AM EST
    When I was 12 I was arrested at a civil rights rally with my parents in Los Angeles. One of the proudest days in my life. Learning Civil Disobedience. Standing up for something I believe in. My younger sister was arrested at 14 protesting South Africa. It's so easy to complain than willing to risk something for a cause you believe in. It's actually very liberating and I look back at it fondly. I don't see anything wrong with this except your usual sniping at the religious.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 08:00:09 AM EST
    And the completely unreverend Pat Mahoney just suggested in re: Jeb Bush ignoring a court order, "If there is to be a constitutional crisis, so be it." And that, my friends, is what this is all about. Schiavo herself is just a pawn in a far bigger game.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 08:03:25 AM EST
    BocaJeff, Proud you should be. And your sister. But your parents were utterly negligent to let you do that. As for sniping about the religious, don't go there, pal. You have no idea how public my support and enormous respect for all religious traditions is. I would really hate to embarass you. This is about political fanatics and rightwing extremists manipulating religious belief. And you know it.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 08:06:25 AM EST
    Gloria Allred practices law in California, not Florida. So that's probably the answer. She fought Randall Terry's group when they came to L.A.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 08:27:23 AM EST
    Johnny wrote: "I hop these parents realize their kids police records prevent them from EVER being accepted into society, myself? I would NEVER hire one of these kids, simply because they have a rapsheet, and reformation DOES not exist." I think Dubya has an arrest record, and he managed to find employment.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 08:54:46 AM EST
    I have doubts the kid came up with this on his own is all. I think he was being used. Just my opinion. Marching the streets in protest is one thing (though I still say it's a bad idea for young children), barging into a private hospital room is another. What of the Schiavo families privacy? Doesn't a patient and their family have a right not to be pestered by fanatics in the hospital? FWIW.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 09:03:53 AM EST
    Kdog The protesting is being conducted outside the hospital, not inside Terry's room. And I'm positive Terry's parents would not mind being 'pestered' in this manner by people with an interest in saving her life. As far as your "doubts" and "opinions", you would have to have them in order to reconcile the following statement: "My 10-year-old said that Jesus said, `If you offer a cup of water in my name, you did it for me.' And he told me that's what he wanted to do," Should I thirst, I'd gladly accept a cup of water from this child.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 09:26:43 AM EST
    "
    My 10-year-old said that Jesus said
    Sounds like the 10 yr. old should maybe see a psychiatrist if they are hearing voices. And aren't they being arrested for trying to get access to her room? It seems odd to be arrested for simply standing in front of a hospital with a cup of water. But then again, you get arrested for the littlest thing these days, so who knows. I will say the cuffs are a bit much. I hate seeing kids in chains.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 09:42:19 AM EST
    Tristero, wouldn't it depend - to a certain extent at least - what the act of civil disobedience was? If your daughter wanted to go round throwing paint on fur coats, I'd say you should stop her. If she wanted to hand out leaflets against fur coats outside a fashion show, maybe you should let her. And there are many shades in between. If she comes up with some idea for CD that has no inherent risk, and that she really wants to do, and she's a reliable responsible child whom you can trust to be sensible and stay out of trouble, well - why not? While I disagree with the position this demo is taking in the Schiavo case, I think that if all the kids did was stand outside the hospital with cups of water, that's a reasonably safe form of civil disobedience. Whether or not the kids were there of their own accord or if their parents put them up to it is another matter. And I don't think the cops should have used handcuffs when they arrested them.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 09:59:20 AM EST
    Jesurgislac, Civil disobedience is dangerous. It is no place for kids. Are there exceptions? Possibly. It's also possible that George Bush will actually spend an entire day as president without lying about something important. But here in the real world, neither is likely to happen in our lifetime. Civil disobedience means breaking the law. My child is reliable and responsible, the world is neither. I wil err on the side of her life, always. I will give you an example. Right now, the not-so-reverend Mahoney is calling for a constitutional crisis to "save" Schiavo's life. If that turns into a kidnap effort by Jeb Bush, everyone near that hospice could be in grave danger if someone throws a rock or a cop gets a little too nervous. Y'think it's responsible for children to be anywhere near that doing civil disobedience?

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 10:00:38 AM EST
    Was there any doubt omn the part of these parents that the children would be arrested? I sometimes bring my nephews to protest I attend. Before I do so I take the trouble to make sure that this isa protest I believe will be calm and safe. If I feared arrest or violence I simply wouldn't bring them. Contrast this with the Florida situation. People had already been arrested for doing essentially the same thing. Parents brought the children with them and then engaged in the exact same behavior that had led to the arrest of others already. They greeted the police officers, kneeled, and politely awaited arrest. It's noble to do this in the cause of something one blieves to be right but it's exploitative to use children. These parents deliberately brought their children into a situation in which they knew they would be arrested and it doesn't wash to compare it with Selma. The racial laws were an attack on the children of that time. They were essentially guilty from birth of being black and it was the duty of all blacks to oppose this. Attacked from the cradle = opposition from the cradle. I've yet to see anything compelling that would show that removing Terri's feeding tube would have a direct adverse impact on the children being arrested. Their arrest might be another story however when applying for jobs, applying to college, getting lines of credit etc. etc...

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 10:02:11 AM EST
    Johnny I have a rapsheet fight against evil political rats, and to Rodney the cops in the third Reich were proud to keep order and move the old and the little ones into the death camps, the fight is starting not only for this new victim of an insane government but for the coming victimized of millions. this kid stands for what this nation is, not under laws but under a ruling power that is not of the bill of rights or the people of a nation. The Ideals of FDR,JFK, Have been attacked Now its up to you to take sides, Life or death, which side are you on?

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 10:10:58 AM EST
    Fred Dawes: Hey! There's a job opening up in Kyrgyztan! Go, now Fred! Go, go, go. You'll be far happier there.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 10:51:55 AM EST
    At least someone is teaching their kids morals.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 11:02:42 AM EST
    Actually, since Terri S. cannot swallow, they should be charging these kids with attempted murder. She'd choke to death on a glass of water. How's that for right to life? ant

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 11:09:17 AM EST
    The kid should instead be trying to get a drink to that dry-drunk, G.W. Bush. He needs one, the hypocrite. If Terri were in Texas, the bill he signed into law in 1999 to save hospitals money would've denied her water then.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 11:39:44 AM EST
    Tristero, already been there, have you? fight for the ideals of right against wrong. been here since 1635, and not going any-place, but will take it back for the ideals of of a nation under laws of common "sense" is that ok to say or will i get 50 years? under bush and business laws?

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 11:52:55 AM EST
    From Fred Daws "this kid stands for what this nation is, not under laws but under a ruling power that is not of the bill of rights or the people of a nation." Well.. I suppose. If you want to believe that then more power to you. I, however, happen to believe that we ARE a nation of laws ruled uner a constitution with a bill of rights. If we doin't have that then we don't have anything. The Constitution is the power and authority under which we the people have signed, voted, and sworn to defend. I pledge to defend and obey the constitution when I take public office - not the will and authority of a higher power that others may or may not believe in. If you're going to argue for something else then it is up to you to make the case with the public and pass the resolutions and ammendments by vote and will of the People. And that is People not people. Until then it's Rule of Law time.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#58)
    by Dadler on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 11:57:35 AM EST
    having attended the nation's largest evangelical high school, i have tons of experience with the fringe of american christianity that the parents of these children represent. and with this specific "cause", my dubiousness meter moves higher. while i took my then two year-old to anti-war marches, i never felt things were getting anywhere near arrest level or danger, and i would not allow my ten year-old to act as some sort of proud political trophy/sacrifice for my own "spritual" pride and mission. that said, don't kids get processed at juvie? or are they transferred their from the police department?

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 12:10:02 PM EST
    ...their from the police department?
    all this talk about arresting kids, they'll probably be let go without any processing, so they won't have a record. they whole thing was staged presenting these kids as willing to sacrifice their future for their beliefs. hell the cop is one of them! after all the lies and propaganda these people have wrought, need i remind you of the song line, "we won't be fooled again"!

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 12:10:27 PM EST
    The kids went to a juvie center. Their case will be handled separately from the parents. I'm not familiar with Florida law so I'm not sure what, if any, effect the parents case could have on their own. It might be considered mitigating or it might not.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#61)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 12:11:23 PM EST
    The kid was taken to a juvenile detention center. There's probably more of a chance he'll be molested there than at Neverland.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#62)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 12:40:17 PM EST
    What kind of parents let their ten year old kid get arrested? Answer: Anti-abortion activists, like those out in force at the Florida hospice where Terri Schiavo is spending her final days. Please stop this blatant and harmful generalization. Righteousness is no defense for such comments.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#63)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 12:40:53 PM EST
    TalkLeft and Chance: Exactly. All these hairsplitters and fake idealists posting here about how great it is when a child believes in something strong enough to get arrested, and especially along with his/her parents, how life-affirming! And it can easily end with a rape in the back of a urine-stained holding tank. Now there's something they'll never forget. As Frank Zappa once said, "Scientists say the most abundant element in the universe is hydrogen. They're wrong. It's stupidity." I'm outta here, folks. Thanks for all the fun.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#64)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 02:32:49 PM EST
    Well, in 1963 Birmingham, the Civil Rights Movement used children to continue the protest against segregation in public accomodations in downtown Birmingham. This is where the pictures of the waterhoses and dogs of "Bull" Connor come from. Those were mostly children marching and protesting. Also, in Soweto and Sharpeville, South Africa in 1976, the protest marches were predominantly children. In both instances, children were attacked by forces much more brutal than the police in Fla. Yet, these actions were considered powerful protests. It is true that Malcolm X and other Black nationalists criticized ML King and others for using children (and women, for that matter) in protests, but most activists saw this as positive.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#65)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 03:06:46 PM EST
    Well .. again .. this would be a different matter. Apartheid and Jim Crowe apply a sort of guilt at birth that makes the situation something different for those children. I can't comment on Soweto and South Africa but Birmingham began as something that was supposed to be peaceful and was a statement from everbody there (children included) of their own humanity. Children proclaiming their humanity and staking a claim for their full human rights at the side of their parents is something a little different from what happened here. I don't recall Rev. King telling little Timmy and Sally to step up and let them put the handcuffs on in the same way as this.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#66)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 03:22:16 PM EST
    When I was young my parents made me a pawn for their religious beliefs. At the time I thought I was doing something glorious for God, because that's what I was being told. Now I know they used me so that they could get some kind of kudos for their piousness. I really resent the way they used me.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#67)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 05:40:00 PM EST
    Has the kid been bail out? good god playing into the hands of bin laden, but maybe that is what Bush wants. this poor woman will be dead and I call it murder, some call it right and others make it into a joke, bin laden will win and that is because people just don't get it at all. But it is wrong to use kids like this, but isn't that what both the Right and Left do all the time.Sad fact 2005.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#68)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 08:11:42 PM EST
    I have no problem taking my 9 and 11 year old kids to anti- war protests, but would NEVER consider getting into a situation where any of us would get arrested. I have a friend who grew up evangelical, but suffered great guilt as a kid, for the kids he knew he couldn't SAVE FROM HELL. I think if these Christians could get back to feeding the poor and easing the infirm, it would make Jesus much happier than keeping a body alive that the soul has already departed from.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#69)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 10:18:34 PM EST
    I think that it's interesting that all of the persons standing outside the hospice (by the way, is filled with others who want to be in a safe place to die) aren't giving any consideration to the others who are trying to live their last days in relative peace. Well, I guess they don't count, do they? Don't they deserve some modicum of quiet from the crazy and what appears to be, noisy crowds? Well, I guess they don't count when there isn't a agenda attached to the others who also deserve some respect before they die. There's no point to prove and no hidden motive to justify with them. By the way, I don't see these same protesters rebelling against the same system that allows agencies like CPS not take care of the children that are abused, neglected and/or abandoned. I guess that small children don't matter; only if you need them to get arrested for you to prove a point!

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 06:00:42 AM EST
    Sweetiepie...well said. A classless bunch of zealots.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#71)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 09:23:38 AM EST
    Oh yes my great nation of child murdering pigs, i hope the little kid won't be rape/tortured inside the hell house called our jail system of total politcal corruption of an evil empire once called the USA. So to you who love to see little kids being murderd by bush and business don't look up, your next.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#72)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 10:10:07 AM EST
    I think it is wonderful that a parent will allow a child to demonstrate their protest, but do these age really understand what they are protesting? It is blinsided to let them be arreste for the parents believes.Too bad these people cant find something else to protest, abortion is a mmoral issue, not a society.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#73)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 12:11:07 PM EST
    40 million american citizens without health insurance. Seems to me these folks ought to be demonstrating about the lack of health care in the U.S. These so-called Christians aren't Christians at all, just hate-filled pharisees.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#74)
    by glanton on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 12:21:53 PM EST
    Thank you, Crusader. It's nice to see at least a few people get the healtrh care implications built into this whole spectacle down in Florida. Whatever you think about Shiavo herself, one thing is clear: had she been unable to afford the feeding tube in the first place (been uninsured), trhere would have been only a quiet death, followed by no media storm. Yet the vast majority of those who die prematurely every year, including those who cannot get transplants (due to lack of insurance), etc., unlike Shiavo, are not in vegetative states. Some fighting for Terry, such as PPJ, have expressed a humanity that I respect. Most, though, including the political carrion on Capital Hill, as well as the "protestors" outside the Hospice, are doing what they are as an indirect attack on Roe. They care about Terry about as much as they care for the homeless.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#75)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 01:18:39 PM EST
    "Posted by Amy Robertson: "C'mon, folks. If this kid were being arrested for civil disobedience protesting racism or sexism, we'd be heaping praise on the parents for teaching the kid to stand up for what he believes in." I don't know who you think 'we' is, but every protester I know would laugh in your face at this claim. We don't put our children in peril so they can 'stand up' for the beliefs of their parents. There are child protesters, that's fine. They do NOT participate in civil disobedience that may lead to arrest. Note the bait and switch: "On May 2, children, ranging in age from six to eighteen, gathered in Kelly Ingram Park, across the street from Sixteenth Street Baptist Church. Around 1:00, fifty teenagers left the church and headed for downtown." In all the protests we have had in the last twenty years, I have seen MANY children, including toddlers and infants, at the peaceful street marches. NONE have been arrested; none were ever put at significant risk. It is a false analogy, and I would be the first person to demand a review of custody if I saw a child getting arrested at any of our marches and protests.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#76)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 10:21:09 PM EST
    It's probably good practice for when the Left completes their takeover.

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#77)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 26, 2005 at 01:53:33 AM EST
    historian, you misspelled 'right.'

    Re: Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested (none / 0) (#79)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 27, 2005 at 12:28:37 AM EST
    I have to dispute that these arrests will prevent the kids from "being accepted into society." Ridiculous. A juvenile court case for trespassing will have no effect at all on that kid's life.

    Abortion Foes Let Their Own Kids Get Arrested | 73 comments (73 topical)