home

Montana Condems Patriot Act

By Jeralyn, Section Legislation
Posted on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 01:06:59 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

In the strongest language of any governmental entity to date, the Montana legislature has "just said no" to the Patriot Act.

Senate Joint Resolution 19, sponsored by Sen. Jim Elliott, D-Trout Creek, says that while the 2005 Legislature supports the federal government's fight against terrorism, the so-called Patriot Act of 2001 granted authorities sweeping powers that violate citizens' rights enshrined in both the U.S. and Montanan constitutions.

The resolution, which does not carry the weight of a law but expresses the Legislature's opinion, encourages Montana law enforcement agencies not to participate in investigations authorized under the Patriot Act that violate Montanans' constitutional rights. It requests all libraries in the state to post a sign warning citizens that under the Patriot Act, federal agents may force librarians to turn over a record of books a person has checked out and never inform that citizen of the request.

Montana becomes the 5th state to say no to the Patriot Act. The Bill of Rights Defense Committee is keeping track.

< Fred Korematsu: Unsung Hero | The Bernie Kerik Story >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Montana Condems Patriot Act | 22 comments (22 topical)
    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 02:10:34 PM EST
    It requests all libraries in the state to post a sign warning citizens that under the Patriot Act, federal agents may force librarians to turn over a record of books a person has checked out and never inform that citizen of the request. What is the big deal about federal authorities review library records? I mean, who cares? On the other hand, I can absolutely see the value in our federal authorities having access to that information. The Patriot Act stays...period.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#2)
    by glanton on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 02:16:08 PM EST
    MB: It's a bigger deal to those who read than to those who don't. And it's a bigger deal to those who read controversial or subversive literature than to those who read Clancy and Grisham. It also matters to those who value privacy and freedom. Other than that, you're right, "who cares"?

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#3)
    by Kitt on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 02:51:42 PM EST
    Damned leftists....they also want to bring back their National Guard units from Iraq because they're expecting a higher than usual number of forest fires due to ongoing drought.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 04:06:55 PM EST
    Patriot Act is not a threat to Americans who behave like sheep. Big brother poses little threat to good germans, right MB? 4th amendment goes right out the window, what's the big deal? It really is too bad that stupidity isn't immediately painful.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 04:56:59 PM EST
    CA is a glutton for punishment, after all ;-)

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 05:12:24 PM EST
    MB, I care about it. What I check out at the public library--and I'm a card-carrying member of three different library systems--is really no one's business. Next thing you know, someone will be dipping a probe into the sewer system to figure out what I ate for dinner. If the government has to invade my privacy to keep me safe, they're not doing the job right.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 05:31:41 PM EST
    The great move would be to start libraries that do not keep track of who checks out what, honor system kind of thing. They'd get my donation. Keep knowledge free.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#9)
    by michael on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 04:34:47 AM EST
    As a professional librarian, I'd like to say that many libraries delete patron's files when they return books. This is encouraged by ALA. We need to keep records temporarily to make sure that the books get returned, but after that, they should hit the trash. Many libraries have also purchased software that deletes computer and internet records every day as well. This is very important b/c libraries serve to promote the freedom of information. WE HATE THE PATRIOT ACT.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 06:09:51 AM EST
    Thank goodness the librarians of America love freedom more than our elected officials. Kudos to them for denouncing this unamerican act.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 07:00:36 AM EST
    Too bad the Patriot act didn't allow the Feds to track gun purchases instead of library books - in which case it never would have passed... Makes sense though, obviously readers are much more of a security threat than shooters.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#13)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 08:24:14 AM EST
    MB, How are you going to feel, Michael, when a book on making a bomb out of fertilizer rented from your library helps kill 100s of people? You should be put in jail for your actions as far as I'm concerned Thanks for validating Ward Churchill's claims. I guess we're all little Eichmanns to you, one way or another.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 08:40:29 AM EST
    MB has shown us time after time he does not value freedom. This is the mentality that those who love freedom are up against.
    Stop fighting the people who are trying to protect us
    I'll protect myself, thanks anyway.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 09:18:23 AM EST
    MB, everyone's entitled to their opinions, even if they support facism. You'd better live in NYC and not Kansas or your statement is not only sad but hypocritical. My son's dad was working at Logan Airport in the United terminal from 8 to 9 am on 9/11/01. My cousin's husband barrelled into the World Trade center that same morning - aboard Flight 175. Whoever you are, and despite the sarcasm, my heart goes out to you....

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 09:38:56 AM EST
    I was close enough to see the smoke on 9/11, and I still say freedom is worth the risk.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#20)
    by chupetin on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 09:47:52 AM EST
    Pigwiggle hit it right on nose. Corruption and abuse of power are a fact in law enforcement. Giving these guys unlimited power is asking for trouble. Why cant we learn from history?

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 11:16:19 AM EST
    Sorry, MB, it was me. (perhaps a bit of sympathy evaporates???) While proximity for you might mean renewed vengeance and isolationism, proximity for me meant my love of this country's freedom and democracy and my commitment to these vehicles of liberty was further underscored by the actions of those who lack such forms of expression. Bin Laden and Al Queda were around years and years before 9/11. They are still around and have been fueled by the Iraq war, purportedly using it as a training ground for future terrorists (we apparently are no better at Iraqi border defense than American). Abuse of freedom by the people didn't cause this attack, abuse of power by the government did. American so called capitalists in the WTC didn't contribute to the hatred of the U.S. by isolationist fundamentalists. But American wheeling and dealing with repressive regimes (Ahem, Saudi Arabia - check out ARAMCO!)for oil deals at the expense of the residents of said countries did. MB - exactly what "freedoms" and "rights" are you willing to give up? Are you comfortable posting on the web every site you've ever visited? Every bar, library, or political group you've checked out? It is the rare individual who has NOTHING to hide, MB. Maybe you are a one percenter in this case, however.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 12:05:31 PM EST
    MB - exactly what "freedoms" and "rights" are you willing to give up? Are you comfortable posting on the web every site you've ever visited? Every bar, library, or political group you've checked out? It is the rare individual who has NOTHING to hide, MB. Maybe you are a one percenter in this case, however. Ok, do I care if the government has the right to see all the porn sights I've visited lately? No. Do I care that in order to go on an airplane I have to go through a secuity check point? No. Do I care that driving home on New Year's Eve I might have to go through a sobriety check point? No. Yeah, like everybody else, there are things I'm a little embarrased about. But there are life and death reasons for each the mass intrusions into are life such as the ones I have listed above. Sure, it's regretable they are necessary, but it necessary to go through a security checkpoint before you get on an airplane, and that's just the way it is. The government doesn't care how much porn you look at on the iternet people. They do care about your visits to the how to make a dirty bomb website. Stop overracting to the Patriot Act and start helping law enforcment.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 12:53:01 PM EST
    MB, no one here is saying that they don't want to be safe and secure. But if you've read carefully, what we are saying is that we have legitimate concerns about potential abuse of the powers that are supposedly in place to protect us. Even for those who have nothing to hide, it's a scary thought. If library records can be searched, then what goes next? Will Borders or Barnes & Noble start sending reports to the feds on my book-buying habits? If I go to a university library instead, will they start kicking my checkouts to the FBI as suspicious, even on material that is in the public domain? I don't have a problem with authorities gathering that type of information, provided it is pursuant to a criminal investigation and the proper warrants have been issued for that information. But the government doesn't need to be sneaking and peeking into anyone's business. There's enough information out there on all of us that the public and the government can readily get their hands on. Pretty soon, everything we do will be tracked, monitored, dissected and analyzed. You want to live in a world like that? It's really not that far off. That may not concern you, in your view of the good of the country. But it concerns me, first as a citizen of the United States, and second as a black man living in this country. The big government the Republicans have preached against for so long has ballooned, allegedly in the national interest, to keep us safe. And there is a definite potential for misuse of these new powers. What I'm saying doesn't mean anything to you now. It will, though, when the government decides to haul the subversive elements of society off to the concentration camps and death houses, as will no doubt come in time. Then you'll believe. And then it will be too late.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Apr 04, 2005 at 01:35:42 PM EST
    "I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered!"

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 04:19:26 AM EST
    If there is another 9/11 scale attack, this entire discussion will be moot. There will be little opposition to new security laws. If you want to be useful on the issues, you'd better argue from the point of view of those living after the next attack (if there is one).

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 09:41:30 AM EST
    I will allow the loosest possible definition of freedom argue for me. Let the supporters of this act argue against freedom.

    Re: Montana Condems Patriot Act (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 10:05:31 AM EST
    I love people; I think that overall they know what the right thing to do is; and given half a chance they will still do the wrong thing with incredible regularity. There is no threat to my freedom worth giving it up in advance.

    Montana Condems Patriot Act | 22 comments (22 topical)