home

Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support Nuclear Option

Sen. Bill Frist will be joining forces with evangelists like James Dobson to stage a day-long telecast on April 24 that will portray Democrats as enemies of "people of faith" because they oppose some of Bush's judicial nominees.

Fliers for the telecast, organized by the Family Research Council and scheduled to originate at a Kentucky megachurch the evening of April 24, call the day "Justice Sunday" and depict a young man holding a Bible in one hand and a gavel in the other. The flier does not name participants, but under the heading "the filibuster against people of faith," it reads: "The filibuster was once abused to protect racial bias, and it is now being used against people of faith."

Organizers say they hope to reach more than a million people by distributing the telecast to churches around the country, over the Internet and over Christian television and radio networks and stations.

What's behind the push to defeat the filibuster?

.... a chance to reverse decades of legal decisions about abortion, religion in public life, gay rights and marriage.

Republicans fear they may be losing the battle.

Sen. Minority Leader Harry Reid has pledged to bring Senate business to a standstill if Republicans try to carry out their threat. From his latest statement:

We have Republicans trying to change the rules, silence debate and ram through their radical judges to lifetime appointments on the bench.

What we are seeing is the arrogance and abuse of power. If Republicans don’t like the rules, they change them. If someone is standing in their way, they attack them. If they disagree with a judge’s ruling, they threaten them.

Democrats in Washington are the last remaining check on President Bush’s power. If they can silence us, they can turn the Senate into a rubber stamp for the president. Not just on judges. But on Supreme Court nominees. And legislation like Social Security too.

I hope responsible Republicans in this country and in the Senate will tell their leaders to stop the abuse of power. Let’s quit trying to change the rules, and get back to the work of the American people. They didn’t send us here to misuse or abuse our power, they sent us here to get things done.

Frist has backed himself into a corner. At least one Republican, John McCain, has said he will vote against the rule change. The Senate Parliamentarian will oppose it as well.

The filibuster is a pillar of American democracy. It is an important check against abuse of political power.

Republicans want to prohibit use of the filibuster against judicial nominations to grease the path for President Bush’s nominees. In their hurry to reshape the courts to Bush’s liking, they’re stomping over protections that keep the rights of a political minority from being bullied by an arrogant majority.

They’re also rewriting history, claiming the filibuster was never meant to be a tool to block judicial appointments. That’s hogwash. Filibusters have often been used to thwart presidential nominations. The first recorded instance dates back to 1881, when Republicans were unable to end the filibuster that blocked President Hayes’ nomination of Stanley Matthews to the Supreme Court.

Nor is there any legal basis for the claim that a filibuster is unconstitutional. The Constitution authorizes the Senate to make its rules of procedures. If a filibuster is unconstitutional, so are dozens of other Senate rules.

Republicans’ attack on the filibuster isn’t driven by any sense of fairness — legal or otherwise. Democrats have confirmed more than 200 of Bush’s nominees; that’s a better per-term average of confirmations than President Clinton enjoyed. But because Democrats haven’t embraced extreme nominees such as Priscilla Owen, Republicans are crying obstructionism.

The radical right cannot be allowed to win its assault on an independent judiciary.

....these radically conservative activists feel that their agenda is being thwarted by the independent judiciary. And so the masks have come off. They are now openly demanding an end to the nation’s independent federal judiciary. They are calling for mass impeachment and even criminal prosecution of federal judges who disagree with them. And they will soon be demanding that Bush remake the Supreme Court with appointments that will eliminate a constitutional right to privacy, the separation of church and state, and much more. Unfortunately, these leaders are no easily dismissible fringe – they are power brokers at the center of Republican Party politics, with influence in the White House and among the leaders of Congress. It’s urgent that the American public see them for who they are, and understand the threat they pose to our very constitutional order.

Here's more from the Detroit Free Press. Read Sen. Edward Kennedy's floor statement from last week. Even Bob Dole is opposed. 142 organizations have signed a letter to Frist asking him to abandon his plan.

Representatives of 142 organizations delivered a letter to Frist's Senate office urging him to abandon the so-called "nuclear" option of allowing a simple 51-vote majority to end filibusters on judges, replacing the 67-vote majority now required.

The organizations, representing a broad political spectrum, expressed concern that if the right to filibuster judicial nominations is removed, the rules could also be changed to eliminate the right to filibuster legislation.

Don't stay silent on this one. Our democracy depends on it.

[comments now closed, we'll be writing again on this topic.]

< 'Choose Life' Plates Will Remain in 5th Circuit States | 5 Years for Passing a Joint: Stop this Bill Now >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    This country is insane, that is all I can say.

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#2)
    by Linkmeister on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 11:26:45 PM EST
    Oh, no, Fred, not insane. It's just the most naked power grab we've seen since, well, maybe never.

    WTF! I mean come on already with the religious right! Whatever happened to revoking their tax exempt status for participating in politics? This has got to end and I think the IRS can help if the Democrats had the kahuna's to pressure them to do so.

    A whole day of Frist and the Holy Rollers?! This is gross. I don't see what Christians everywhere don't rise up and take by Jesus from those who would drag his name and works to a level lower than themselves, lower that the gutter.

    I wouldn't be so despondent over this. The end result is more likely to be a Democratic takeover of the Senate than an end to the filibuster, and even if the filibuster is killed off, Bill Frist will come to rue the day he went that route. When Hillary Clinton appoints her husband as a Supreme Court justice, Republicans will have only themselves to blame.

    Justpaul I like your thinking. Brilliant! I can see it now Justice Clinton reading the decision deciding the Election in 2012 ! I love it.

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#7)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 06:09:38 AM EST
    A whole day of Fristing. The Faithful are going to be real sore for a few days.

    I would prefer to see the Democrats actually Filibuster. Let Sen Byrd talk about his dead dog Billy until his Depends explode- great theatre! They couldn't keep it up more than a couple weeks, tops. This whole thing is stupid- Shut up and vote.

    As a real conservative (i.e. not a crazed neocon) I didn't think getting rid of the filibuster was a good idea. But now that Sen. Reid has threatened to shut down the Senate (that constant menace to every citizen's life and pocketbook) if the Republicans get rid of the filibuster, well . . . it's tempting.

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#10)
    by glanton on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 07:07:54 AM EST
    Good point, TB: What ABOUT the tax-exempt status for religious groups, anyway? I'd like to see some response to this from our fuzzy winger contingent. Ought Dobson, Falwell, Robertson et al to surrender their tax exempt status? If not, why not? I hate to be an optimist when it comes to the charade known as American Politics, I really do, but there seems to be some light breaching at the end of this dark tunnel. Liberal politics stand ready for a shot in the arm come 2006. The overreaching has gone to vast levels already; really, I think the Dems could clean house in 2006 if they surrendered on the filibuster and then took their case to the voters, said, hey, look, the GOP is nominatingand confirming theocratic and/or fascist judges they're eradicating the following civil liberties..... That's what I'd most like to see. But even with the petty filibuster the Dems seem to be on the upswing, people may be starting to see the real agenda beneath the flag waving and the politically-motivated wars. One can only hope.

    So what if the Republicans take the other route and simply acknolwedge that the Constitution does not require a vote on nominees, retaining the filibuster for those issues which do require a vote and allowing a majority of the Senate to grant its consent by some other format?

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#12)
    by desertswine on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 07:39:35 AM EST
    Frist! Dobson! Spongebob! Can we start burning witches now?

    This is all politics, the dems have filibustered 6 of Dubya's nominees and the senate has otherwise confirmed a record number of appointments compared to the senate's treatment of Clinton appts. Unfortunately the recent confirmations include some real losers like Alberto, Condi, with Negroponte and Bolton poised to follow. That's a lot of tolerance for short term appointments that truly stink. I think drawing the line in the sand on appointing political hacks to life time service on the Federal bench is a necessary patriotic service. I am hoping for a turnaround in 2006, but it depends on whether qualified voters get to vote and whether their votes get counted (and recounted if necessary). We must have a papertrail for elections.

    Have you seen Mrs. Frist in her burka? It's stunning.

    Conscious angel is right, this is *all* about politics, the politics that powerless lower and middle class families should pay attention to. Part of me is glad that "the masks are coming off," so to speak, because the leadership of the Republican party is exposing itself as interested only in the perpetuation of their own power and the imposition of religious zealots on the country. Think about the logic of what John McCain has said: one day, they will not be in power anymore. Bush, Rove, Frist, Delay--all these characters--are not stupid and understand that in that case it would be bad for their party to eliminate the filibuster. Why aren't they worried about it? Because they don't ever intend to let go of the reigns of power; these are the end-times, remember? These are end-of-history radical revolutionaries, and eventually that will become clear to everyone.

    Congrats to the poster who coined "Fristing". Now we need to get the media to quote people using that slam. Turn Rove's tactics back at 'em.

    Wow. I didn't know that all of the unconfirmed nominees were deeply religious and are being persecuted for their faith by "bad"(??) Senators who hold the traditional view that confirmees should fall in the rage of moderate enough to represent ALL of the people's interests? Justin Faulkner, you were right on in stating:
    Think about the logic of what John McCain has said: one day, they will not be in power anymore...Why aren't they worried about it? Because they don't ever intend to let go of the reigns of power;
    PBS's Frontline did a Bio show on Rove this week. Bush and friends call Rove "The Architect" because of the success of his 30 year plan to establish a PERMANENT Republican majority in the US. His strategy is to go after the strengths of his opponents with nasty sneaky untrue personal attack ads and phone calls. Want an example? Check out how the Democratic party running TX turned into the Republican party running TX. Rove's fingerprints are everywhere but no one can say for sure if he was involved.

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#18)
    by cp on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 09:20:58 AM EST
    yep, i think this will be a great opportunity for the dems, if they have the smarts to grab it by the short hairs. with any luck, frist will be front page news, with pictures, in every paper in the country, cnn, msnbc, cbs, abc, nbc, et al. with all that publicity, it will be a little difficult for him to then deny he's in cahoots with the pseudo-religious wackos. go for it bill!

    Just to add a little history to this lovefest over the filibuster. First, this piece that points out the silliness of liberals defending the filibuster of all things. This little history on the 1964 Civil Rights filibuster, including the name of that current defender of democracy Senator Byrd, is interesting - especially this quote (date stamp 1964):
    Never in history had the Senate been able to muster enough votes to cut off a filibuster on a civil rights bill. And only once in the thirty-seven years since 1927 had it agreed to cloture for any measure.
    I think drawing the line in the sand on appointing political hacks to life time service on the Federal bench is a necessary patriotic service
    .Just remember, Democratic political hacks will someday be roasted on this spit. The filibuster is anti-democratic and defense of it ignores its horrid history - and constitutes short-term poliitcal thinking.

    As to all this permanent republican majority, end times, etc stuff. Not if the Democratic Party will realize that the beliefs of a majority of Americans should not by irrelevant to their party platform and views. I am not saying to let the tail wag the dog (you must provide leadership); but you have to stay close enough to those you are leading so they can see you. The pendulum will swing back but only if liberals realize that a majority of Americans consider you out of step, and of suspect morals and ethics, not the conservatives.

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#21)
    by Darryl Pearce on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 09:39:09 AM EST
    The filibuster is anti-democratic and defense of it ignores its horrid history - and constitutes short-term poliitcal thinking. Ha-hA-ha-HA! Oh, that's rich! Y'know, if you can overcome a filibuster, maybe your goals were good. If a filibuster stops you, maybe your plan can't convince the supermajority necessary.

    Republican Sen. Frist is portraying Democrats and those that want to filibuster as against 'people of faith'. Could Pres. Bush and his party be considered against 'people of faith'? The Pope was vehemently against the war in Iraq and he let it be known to Bush and his emissaries.

    Y'know, if you can overcome a filibuster, maybe your goals were good. If a filibuster stops you, maybe your plan can't convince the supermajority necessary
    So the goals of racial equality and civil rights - expressed in the 14th and 15th amendments were not worthy until 1964 - when 67 senators could be convinced?

    Maybe the solution is to remove the rule that allows a Senator to filibuster by simply announcing his intent to do so - make them take the floor. To bad Strom Thurmond died, as the current record holder he could give master classes on the proper technique and strategy. Here's another interesting history on filibusters

    mfox: To be fair, the seeds of the Republican takeover of Texas were sown by the Democrats who were bought and paid for in both the state legislature and the Supreme Court. But remember, it was entirely partisan--it was not about liberal vs. conservative. Texas is the home of the Boll Weevil and the Blue Dog. These were, by a large majority, right-leaning politicians who were pretty much up Rove's alley on most issues. If their names had R's after them, Rove and the rest of the bunch would have been more than happy to keep the corruption in place. And for all you R's with short memories, if you had watched the Frontline piece you would have seen that Rove became a superstar in the Republican party due, in large part, to an exposé by Dan Rather and CBS News.

    I can see it now, a Christian telethon for "saving" social security.

    Michael Ditto, Actually, that's not such a bad idea. If enough people donated money, we could finally establish that "trust fund" they've all been lying about for so many years and be able to pay the full benefits owed to those who will retire after 2037, or 2042, or whatever the year the system goes bankrupt is this hour.

    Bought and paid for
    The Democratic Party in the south has never been the same Democratic Party of the NE. That is why successful Democratic Presidental bids always have had a southerner on the ticket. Southern Democrats have always had more reason to be Republicans than Democrats - but could not be Republicans because of the legacy of the Civil War, the ending of slavery and reconstruction. It was only a matter of time before the Democratic Party slide to the left would make southern Democrats forget even Abraham Lincoln. Perhaps, since you cannot control the Republicans and what they do, a little introspection about how liberals have isolated themselves would do y'all a world of good.

    I'm fine with the Filibuster on Legislation, but I think it is being horribly misused (and therefore endangered) by the Democrats in the Senate- it is one thing to apply it to legislation to get concessions from the majority to make sure the minority is heard, it is quite another to use it to prevent the Executive Branch from carrying out its constitutional right of appointments. The executive appoints, and the Senate is suppose to say yes or no. that is that. Shut up and vote on the nominees and move on.

    I stand corrected Ditto for oversimplifying. Yes, the good ole boys whom I guess are "Dixiecrats" were as thick as thieves. Someone correct me if I'm wrong - this is just a guess - but it seems that the politics of racial division have a lot to do with political shifts of Southern voters have pitted poor whites against poor blacks for a century and a half now. Lincoln the Repub. liberated the slaves. No self-respecting Southerner wanted to be part of a pro-negro (substitue appropriate vernacular)party and so working class Repubs. shifted to the Democratic Party and laid the groundwork for an undermining of true freedom and opportunity for generations of freed Black Americans. Now that most (?) Blacks are Dems, the poor white Southern electorate (Dean's Pickup truck/gun rack guys - Bush's Nascar Dads)has shifted to Republican in an effort to curtail any progress for Af-Ams. It's hard as a liberal to defend the rights of the KKK to free speech- or to defend the use of the filibuster to block progressive legislation. But we do it out of the moral certainty that everyone deserves a fair chance to speak their mind.

    BTW - Didn't Gingrich and Friends shut down the Gov't. several times? What was that for again? I don't remember any great media outcry. If folks are racist, it will be reflected in the Senate and resultant legislation. Racism was the problem, not the Filibuster, so fix the problem and that particular argument goes away.

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#34)
    by Dadler on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 12:40:41 PM EST
    JCHF, The responsibility rests with the people. While the democrats could certainly do a better job, they cannot combat prejudice, isolation and fear. All of these qualities IN PEOPLE have much more to do with they way they lean politically. But, of course, hearts and minds CAN be won. It is, however, a long, grueling, and imagination dependent exercise. Something I don't see either party truly interested in. It's all about short-term game, fattening wallets, and hiding some very tiny dicks (or tits, in some cases). Pardon the crudity, but our halls of power are as crude, as a society, as we have become. We consume, we waste, we complain, we ignore, we deny, we expect, and so much more. And, on top of that, most of us are decent people. Ironies abound. If a large number of people think superstition and literal readings of obvious metaphors (religous fundamentalism) are going to get them through life, that is their choice and their problem. Winning them to the side of liberalism, when the side they're are on has turned that word into a curse word, well, it's a long, long trip.

    JCH - your points are very well taken and despite my being called an in-house troll (Just Paul was really mad at me!)I find your position compelling and reasonable. I just started reading a very very interesting book by George Lakoff, called "Don't think of an elephant". He explains the Republican position aptly indeed - especially how smart, reasonable people can be Republican in their political leanings. I have my issues with Democrats, too. I read Machiavelli and understand that it's a "dog eat dog" world to a certain point. I don't like all these laws passed "for the public good" and found Clinton to be a better president than I had suspected, not having voted for him because he was obviously morally ambiguous in some areas. Interestingly, we probably had the same feeling pulling the lever for Kerry on election day - wish we had a better choice. The truth is you are exactly the person that democrats want to get back in the fold. Having committed to work the election campaign for a just announced Progressive Democratic candidate for Massachusetts Govenor (the position being currently held by, pardon the irresistable pun, Twit Romney of I can't get my nose close enough to GW's butt to kiss it fame), I wonder what my guy would have to do to convince folks like you that historically the progressive agenda has been on the side of the people, etc., etc., blah blah.

    Dadler - I'm so depressed now! I need to go listen to some Jimmy Cliff or We shall Overcome or something. I figure 15-30% of Republican voters really are for Bush's agenda. Forget about them. Probably 15-20% of the extreme left are communists, anarchists and some just plain hootey people. Has always been so, is now and shall always be. That leaves 50 to 70% of voters more moderate, reasonable and otherwise united by our desire and ability to participate in society as is. Politicians have been able to jerk this 50-70% around for a long time. Divide and conquer is a literal tactic that has left us steaming. I get really pissed when people call me a liberal, over educated elitist for having gone to night school for ten years to get a BA. I want to know, since when did being educated become a bad thing? A mark of stupidity? It reminds me of how some families call getting educated as "acting white" or "thinking you're better than your people". Now, apparently, 10 years of working plus night classes, 50K in student loans later, I'm accused of "acting liberal" for wanting to learn from history and science instead of believing that every thing I need to know I can translate literally from the Bible. To sound like Fred Dawes for a minute (as if I could!), within a certain framework it makes sense for a government to want all children left behind in terms of education. The less educated and able to think critically the voters are, the more easily manipulated they are.

    Yikes! I need some chocolate fast! I'd like to see congress try to outlaw chocolate LOL. Imagine the TL threads on that one. I'll spare you from assigning my favorites pro and anti chocolate positions. : )

    mfox- "it seems that the politics of racial division have a lot to do with political shifts of Southern voters have pitted poor whites against poor blacks for a century and a half now." Whether or not that was true in the 60's and 70's, I won't speak to, because that is before I started paying any attention. Mostly, I would suggest that most of the South's conservatism stems from a belief in traditional social values, a belief in self sufficiency, a belief in a strong military, and a belief in low taxes- all things the Democratic Party (at least on a national level) is percieved to be opposed to. I have quite a few African-American friends, and it is surprising how many are republican outright or vote R nationally and D locally (one guy I know is very active in the local NAACP and the local democratic Party voted for Bush, based off of a strong belief in the War and in private saving accounts for SS). I find the consistent belief from Northeast and Coastal Libs that we are all a bunch of racist rednecks amusing- since what I see and experience everyday does not bear those charges out. We do have our share of bigots, but so does the rest of the country- we value and respect hard work and family values- and I think the Asian experience here bears that out. after a bit of cultural shock from both the locals and the inmmigrant boat people who were settled here in OK, now days most find the vietnamese and laotian communities indispensible parts of our society. They tend to vote republican too- in fact, a large percentage of the local Democrats vote republican for national offices- during the campaign I saw plenty of Carson signs sharing lawn space with Bush/Cheney ones. Fleetguy- I don't think your first point for voting for Kerry will bear out, and while I agree with the first part of your point on the Budget, I think you are giving too much undue credit on the back half!

    mfox, Calling you an in-house troll had nothing to do with anger. It was a statement of fact.

    RH - when the Extreme Right, the President or any one else speaks about "people of faith" they mean people of the Right faith -- that is Christians. They don't mean Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and certainly not Muslims. They may mouth certain words that seem to indicate inclusivenss, but in their minds and hearts there is only one right way. There is no room for difference. So, "people of faith" "logically" speaks only to christians, especially those of the evengelical stripe.

    "the United States cannot enforce their vision of democracy by pre-emptive regime changes." How does giving people the opportunity to rule themselves become "enforcing our vision of democracy"? You really think people are en masse happy to live with a boot on the throat with no human rights or say in their future? You can't enforce democracy, only provide the opportunity for it. " it matters not to me whether deficits come by not collecting enough taxes or by spending too much money. Its red ink" Can't argue with that- one side of the aisle will over spend and the other under funds-but all is dependent on the economic cycle, which is only influenced by govt, not controlled. It would have been nice if we had paid down more of the deficit in the ninties when things were booming, and while I agreed with Bush's tax cuts, I think this whole Prescription drug policy is an expensive boondoogle that is not only ill advised but is only another band aid for a problem that is created by govt interference in the first place. National Security concerns are more immediate in my thinking and experience, and I haven't seen a prominent hawk from the democrats since Scoop Jackson. It was a shame Joe Lieberman didn't even register on the radar- even a moderately good showing out of him would have restored a little faith that the Democrats actually grasp the concepts of National Security and National Interest. He was the only one I would have felt comfortable with at the helm of the democratic slate, although I agreed with next to nothing of his domestic agenda.

    Gerry The point isnt giving them the opportunity for democracy - the point is how. Again, my objection isnt the ends but the means

    "my objection isnt the ends but the means" Nothing else was working- and our containment was crumbling. It needed to be done and it was. Regardless, I appreciate your stay course sentiment, there is no use crying about it now- we're committed. I understand that point of view well. I was not to sure and somewhat opposed to the Kosovo operation based on I thought it set a bad precedent, but once the bombs started falling I became its biggest supporter- because once we commit to use force in a situation there can be no option or outcome short of victory, since the alternatives are expotentially worse in the long run.

    Frist doesn't have to "portray" the left as enemies of people of faith. This thread shows he's simply pointing out something plain for any reasonable person to see.

    The option was in 1991 when we stopped short of Baghdad - or maybe slightly later when we hung the Shiites of Southern Iraq out to dry after we incited them to revolution. As you say, the alternatives are exponentially worse.

    Where exactly was the outrage from the right about using the filibuster and other tactics from allowing Nominees to even get a hearing from 1992-2000? Oh, I see. It's OK to do it if you belong to to the 'publican party. Yet another lovely double standard.

    Havelock Where exactly was the outrage from the right about using the filibuster... The filibuster was never used against Clinton's Nominees. You're lying.

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#49)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 05:53:37 PM EST
    Ace - Thanks for another warmed over, bumpersticker insight. Why do I sense that your idea of "people of faith" encompasses conservative christians and no one else? Do you include liberal christians, buddhists, jews, and muslims as people of faith?

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#50)
    by soccerdad on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 06:04:55 PM EST
    The filibuster was never used against Clinton's Nominees. You're lying.
    In 1996 Clinton nominated Judge Richard Paez to the 9th Circuit of the United States Court of Appeals. Conservatives in Congress held up Paez's nomination for more than four years, culminating in an attempted filibuster on March 8, 2000. Bill Frist was among those who voted to filibuster Paez link

    Er.. I stand corrected, sort of. Also from SD's link: Frist was directly confronted with this vote by Bob Schieffer on Face the Nation (11/21/04). Schieffer said "Senator, a group called The American Progress Action Fund sent me a question to ask you. And here's what it says: 'Senator Frist, if you oppose the use of the filibuster for judicial nominations, why did you vote to filibuster Judge Richard Paez when President Clinton nominated him to the 9th Circuit?'" [3] Frist replied "Filibuster, cloture, it gets confusing--as a scheduling or to get more information is legitimate. But no to kill nominees." Its hairsplitting, of course. But a legitimate gripe. SD - Do you have any links that aren't from the "Center for American Progress" (you know, something more bi-partisan)? Havelock - I stand corrected... sort of.

    The administration, and those who believe it is their saving grace, are not in touch with Christianity. They are in touch with their religious leaders who are just as power tripping and greedy. [remainder of unduly long, off-topic screed deleted. If commenter emails me, I will return it to him.]

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#52)
    by soccerdad on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 06:56:43 PM EST
    Do you have any links that aren't from the "Center for American Progress" (you know, something more bi-partisan)?
    If you bothered to look you would have seen they linked to direct summary of the vote. Don't like the message criticize the messenger

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#53)
    by soccerdad on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 06:58:03 PM EST
    second you misrepresented their conclusions. Frist was backtracking and lying look at the vote

    "Ace - Why do I sense that your idea of "people of faith" encompasses conservative christians and no one else? Do you include liberal christians, buddhists, jews, and muslims as people of faith?" Yes.

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#55)
    by wishful on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 07:33:05 PM EST
    64 of President Clinton's judicial nominees were blocked by Senate Republicans. They used whatever tools were the most efficient, and in most (all?) cases, they did not need the filibuster. The nominees did not even get to the Judicial Committee vote stage. 10 of President Bush's nominees were blocked by Senate Democrats. The filibuster was the only option available to them. Over 200 of his nominees were approved. By the pure numbers, there is no justification for the characterization by the lying liars. If their claim that Democrats are obstructinist, then by comparison the Republicans must be treasonous. And treason is an affront to my faith.

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#59)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Apr 16, 2005 at 07:31:50 AM EST
    Jim, Not my comment, kudos to rc7775. Unfortunately for your selective database, many of us have not been paying into SS since 1965. You are once again - irrelevant.

    It's my understanding that this proposal is not to end filibustering, but to be able to vote against it by a 51% margin instead of the current 67% margin. It's important to understand such things before we get on our soapboxes. Let's be frank...the ninth circuit of appeals is the target of such a proposal due to their unconventional and liberal decisions, which are overturned by the Supreme Court at a horrifying percentage. Half of congress wants a conservative view to offset the overwhelmingly liberal one currently. The fact is that the Supreme Court cannot spend all of its time overturning the ourtageous decisions of the ninth circuit court of appeals (a very small percentage of the ninth circuit decisions makes it to the Supreme Court), and therefore many bad decisions stand, and become permanent law. Some of these decisions include attacking the Pledge of Allegiance even though 87% of American people in a Newsweek poll want to keep the words "Under God" in the Pledge, and forcing the 98% of non-sexually-deviant citizens to make extreme concessions for homosexual, transgendered, and bisexual individuals. When the judicial system is in direct opposition to the people is when people start accusing them of being out of control, out of touch, or of catering to various lobbyist agendas, or when the term "activist judges" shows up. It is naiive to ignore such realities of American life. I'm all for lessening the power of the fillibuster, which, in essence, is perpetrated by some whiny individual(s) who want to stand in the way of an honest legislative vote. Why have a Congress in the first place if you permit such ridiculous games? These representatives of ours are there to vote on issues, not stand in the way of such a vote.

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#62)
    by Kitt on Sat Apr 16, 2005 at 02:42:41 PM EST
    Is Cliff posing as the JCHFleet guy?

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#63)
    by Sailor on Sat Apr 16, 2005 at 05:39:21 PM EST
    Anonymous coward at 3:15, read the history of the filibuster from the Senate.gov site and come back when you have done your homework. Sheesh!

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#64)
    by Sailor on Sat Apr 16, 2005 at 05:48:59 PM EST
    Has anyone else noticed that frist has called for a jihad? Is this something we welcome in our country?

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#65)
    by glanton on Sat Apr 16, 2005 at 06:17:44 PM EST
    What do these these droolers mean, in the end, when their spittle is attended by the mantra, 'against people of faith'? There is a strong contingent in this nation that would like to use theological tenets to tell the rest of us what is decent: thereby they seek to control what we can say, what we can watch on television, who we can have sex with, and even what we can do with our own bodies. Even people like Doctor Ace cannot but admit that nobody is trying to stop Christians or any other sect from observing their beliefs. But what Frist's buddies, the idealogues resent, is that we do not lie down quietly while they turn the nation into a theological artifact. Let them turn to another channel if they do not like what is on, let them forbid their own children from wearing what they deem indecent, let them pray at home and at church. Let them not get abortions, let them not ever pull artificial life support from their relatives. And noone will care.

    Re: Frist to Stage Religious Telecast to Support N (none / 0) (#66)
    by Sailor on Sat Apr 16, 2005 at 06:30:12 PM EST
    glanton - excellent!

    Yes, I'm doing that now. All the off topic comments will be deleted.

    wishful writes - "And treason is an affront to my faith." Am I to understand you have a "I'm Not Fond of Fonda" T-shirt? SD writes "Frist was directly confronted with this vote by Bob Schieffer on Face the Nation (11/21/04). Schieffer said "Senator, a group called The American Progress Action Fund sent me a question to ask you. Ah yes. There is no doubt Schieffer is a worthy replacement for Rather. Can't tell the players without a scorecard. brave - Hmmm, somehow I can't see the synagouges, mosques and temples burining from here. Am I looking in the left direction? Havelock - Politics is a blood sport, as one of Clinton's staffers told us. So quit crying and wait your turn at bat. desertswine -Actually, you have to put the witch on top of a lot of really dry, combustible wood, and then burn the wood. If hot enough, the witch may ignite, more likely all you will get is charcoal. Hope this helps. glanton - Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. I do advise caution.

    o.t. deleted