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Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen

By Jeralyn, Section Off Topic
Posted on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:02:42 AM EST
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Bump and Update: We were right - the church bells did mean a new pope has been elected. The news is just now reporting it. How ironic that the news got out faster from old-fashioned church bells than the high tech media.

The new pope is Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany, "the church's leading hard-liner." He has chosen the name Pope Benedict XVI.

*****************
It's 10:09 a.m. and the cathedral bells just began ringing in Downtown Denver. Is there a new Pope? No, according to latest news articles. The smoke is still black.

It's now 10:13 and the bells are still ringing at this cathedral.

10:42: The bells just stopped ringing.
10:44: Now they are ringing again.

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    Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen | 60 comments (60 topical)
    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 09:16:44 AM EST
    Any chance they selected Father Guido Sarduci?

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 09:25:25 AM EST
    I'm rooting for the African guy.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#3)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 09:34:27 AM EST
    yeah, an african pope would be cool. but only until you realized he was even more orthodox and conservative than the last one. sorry, it's just sociopathic and flat out wrong for a bunch of old men to choose, in secret, the "leader" of a billion believers or whatever the number is. more than wrong, it is utterly disconnected from reality. catholics should be saying enough and calling for a vote. but i'm an agnostic, so what do i know except we'll never know?

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 09:42:12 AM EST
    I couldn't care less really, I'm just rooting for the African guy to see how Catholics w/ prejudices deal with it. I like turmoil.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#5)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 09:45:09 AM EST
    kdog, i have to agree with that thought. it'd be interesting to watch the squirming and "accomodating".

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 09:58:42 AM EST
    Its Ratzinger, in case you didn't know. Man news travels slow here. An excellent choice, I might add. The Catholic Faith can be proud.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 10:00:51 AM EST
    And so it ends up being the rigid defender of orthodoxy. "Strict interpretation of church doctrine." A "staunch conservative," a "moral watchdog," silencer of liberal theologians. I can't resist the temptation to say it...God help us.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 10:01:15 AM EST
    Damnit, it's the German dude. Booooooring.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#9)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 10:02:10 AM EST
    The guy who played Cliff on Cheers is the next pope???? Who'da thunk it.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 10:02:25 AM EST
    Isn't he like as old as JP was? I guess he's kind of like an interim pope to keep the seat warm for a year or two.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 10:03:02 AM EST
    Good one Pat.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 10:16:22 AM EST
    uggh... To some, he is the Catholic Church's intellectual salvation during a time of confusion and compromise. To others, he is an intimidating "Enforcer", punishing liberal thinkers, and keeping the Church in the Middle Ages. From the BBC.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 10:20:59 AM EST
    Is this guy also for bin laden?

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 10:43:26 AM EST
    Shouldn't gods chosenn one be a simple unanimous vote? For a group of people that regularly communicate with god, it would appear that god is sending them all different messages.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#15)
    by Patrick on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 10:47:40 AM EST
    JL, For someone who professes intellectual largesse, that's quite a simple minded observation. Which one of the Cardinals claims to communicate with God on a regular basis?

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#16)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 10:58:12 AM EST
    Patrick, all comport to be in communicado with god on a regular basis. Do your research and get back to me. If catholicism is the one true religion as catholics claim, then the pope would be the official spokesperson of the only true religion in gods eyes. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume that if god has one religion, and is answering the prayers of those seeking guidance, than the outcome should be unanimous if in fact god is answering their prayers. P, for one that claims to be logical, you consistently demonstrate a lack of thoroughness in your arguments. So tell me, if they are praying for guidance on who to select to be gods spokesperson, how is it even remotely possible that every cardinal voting could not have the same name? Because they are men, making decisions that are in their best interests under the premise that there is a god directing them.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#17)
    by desertswine on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:01:31 AM EST
    Ratzinger's 78 years old. The cardinals must like Rome because they'll all be there again in a couple of years.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:15:02 AM EST
    As the voice of God, I always wondered why the pope never said anything enlightening. Bob Dylan for pope!

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:15:41 AM EST
    above was me

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#21)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:19:30 AM EST
    Neocon, neither. Just trying to figure out why a group of people in regular communication with god cannot come to a unanimous decision on the first go as to who gods spokesperson is going to be. You can start with the Apostolic Constitution of Pope John Paul VI in 1975 to formulate an understanding of the election principles for the supreme pontiff. Whereas the cardinals seclude themselves in a conclave to seek enlightenment from the Holy Spirit. They seclude themselves to elect the supreme pontiff under the "will of god". Except of course during the election of Julius the Terrible who was elected in the first round, although there was a problem with his bribing the cardinals. Is it bigoted to question the veracity of "enlightenment" and "gods chosen one"? I think not, you my good fellow must be catholic.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:22:26 AM EST
    ///How ironic that the news got out faster from old-fashioned church bells than the high tech media/// You must be the kind of guy who needs a PC for cooking One can do a lot of thing without high technology, don't you know ;-) Poor Rummy, an "old-european" Pope has been elected today!

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:26:57 AM EST
    Wasn't this the way the Communists picked their leader? I wounder if the Cardinals confided in Cheny as to how one picks a Pope? Boy I sure am confident that a bunch of old virgin men will be giving Sex advice to all those hot blooded latin men and women.I understand all the vaticans alterboys now must wear chasity belts.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:32:33 AM EST
    I love it! We had the same thing happen here in Albuquerque (the bells here telling us one thing, CNN another...) On another note, I got a kick out of how Drudge totally blew it!

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#26)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:32:50 AM EST
    Neocon, in the conclave, the cardinals are not allowed to speak to one another as it is written in the framework for selecting the supreme pontiff. You sure are angry neocon, perhaps an anger management class would be helpful or at the least some counsel from your clergy.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:34:27 AM EST
    P.S. I'm a NOT practicing Catlick and a one time alter boy. Oh I'm half Irish too. I wonder why bush isn't complaining why the Church isn't promoting Freedomnd democracy for it's followers ?

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:36:01 AM EST
    I just hope God has a sense of humor or a whole bunch of us are screwed

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:37:37 AM EST
    personal insult to commenter deleted, commenter will be banned for repeats.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:37:53 AM EST
    Jlvngstn, God moves us all to varying degrees, and in differing ways. So it makes sense for the Cardinals to come together, ask God for advice, and talk it over amonst themselves.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:41:32 AM EST
    Well it looks like the axis powers are back, now all we need is to see japan get-into-the-act, germany,italy,japan, hungary,romania,bulgaria, all players in this game, of evil. the chosen one is an X-Factor and is now being called the black pope, for his stands on all political church ideals, what will be next, political alliance with bin laden and boys? or maybe a deal with bush and the coming total dismantling of what is "Left" of the USA?

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:41:45 AM EST
    Jlvnstn You hit the absurdity of these clowns right on their funny hats. Don't wast your time on Neocon. his name tell us all we need to know.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:43:55 AM EST
    You tell em Fred! Kick the Cathugs right in their vows.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 12:05:23 PM EST
    How come Ariel Sharon wasn't there making sure the Cardinals were voting for the right guy? A German Catholic as a Pope? Holy Smoke! Eggs Benedict are going to sell on Sundays once again.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#33)
    by Andreas on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 12:20:49 PM EST
    Those who can read German might be interested in this older article about the catholic church in Germany. Der Streit in der Katholischen Kirche Vom sozialen Vermittler zum rechten Bollwerk Von Dieter Hesse, 7. Oktober 1999

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#34)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 12:22:35 PM EST
    Some folks today were giving me their history of the conclave. Apparently back in the 12th century the cards were taking, like, three years to elect a pope, so the people locked them away til they made a choice.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 12:27:10 PM EST
    For more on Ratzinger and his role in the John Kerry communion denial controversy, see: - "Is the Pope Catholic?" For other interesting news of the intersection of American religion and politics, see: - "Tony Perkins Joins the American Taliban"

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 12:43:27 PM EST
    To all read the article posted by Andreas, you don't need to read German, you can translate It into english. it is politically engaging.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 02:30:26 PM EST
    Moral coward and Inquisitor (is there any other kind) Ratzinger, now protector of the faith, was rung into Vatican history to the joyous strains of "How Can We Miss You, If You Won't Go Away?" sung in honor of the previous passed Pope. Return with us now to the heady times of Pope Pius XII, when fascism was on the rise, and silly Polish sympathy for the Jews was recognized as a liberal folly. Hey, what are the Jews complaining about? At least they aren't Arabs. There is One Truth, and it is moralistic, but also profitable and aligned to the Billionaires for Bush. Nevermind that John Paul opposed; even Jesus said otherwise; but after all, he was never a Pope, and that b*stard John Paul just wouldn't die. Ratzinger. The name says it all. Black Plague, anyone?

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 02:36:55 PM EST
    PIL Moral coward and Inquisitor Why, because he refuses to compromise the Church's morals and ethics during a time of Liberal relative morality? Moral Pillar is more like it.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 02:38:31 PM EST
    Well, I can't say I'm surprised that they picked a guy who many seem to think is to the right of John Paul II. From the position of the church leadership, a large section of humanity seems to be either living in Saddam and Gomorrah or itching to move there. It's days like these I'm REALLY glad I'm not a catholic.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 02:57:19 PM EST
    I suppose it's their Church and they can elect anybody they want to to run it. The last Pope was a great and decent man but my hope is the NEW Pope will help clean up the pedophilia that goes on within the Church.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 03:02:29 PM EST
    as a Catholic I cant say I was expecting more, maybe just a few more days of dilberation. I think what bothers me most, as Paul brought up, is the sense of entitlement Ratzinger has shown.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#42)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 03:52:26 PM EST
    Papal Fun Fact: Ratzinger was once a member of the Hitler Youth (but he reportedly wasn't an enthusiastic member).

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 04:40:03 PM EST
    At that time, young Germans had to be members of Hitler Youth, whether they wanted to or not. This article printed in the Jerusalem Post earlier this week explains why this is a complete non-issue.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#44)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 06:58:54 PM EST
    Errr...I never claimed it was an issue. I said it was a "fun fact". :)

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 07:36:31 PM EST
    Spainster, suggest you read up on a young german named Helmuth Hubener There were other choices for young germans. Google the White Rose Students.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 09:17:08 PM EST
    Thank you Conscious angel, helmuth hubener was a great stand-up guy.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 10:21:52 PM EST
    "Posted by The Horse: "PIL: Moral coward and Inquisitor" "Why, because he refuses to compromise the Church's morals and ethics during a time of Liberal relative morality?" If that's how you interpret his toleration of pedophilia in the clergy-- and I got news, it's not just in America. The refusal of the Catholic Church to allow abortion in the case of rape, including presumably gang-rape, is not what I consider a shining star of moral guidance. Neither has the Catholic Church's long involvement in rightwing repression in Latin America missed my gaze -- but never mind -- swarthy people aren't as human as you, right, Horse? Ratzinger, this 'Benedict XVI,' was the main player in the persecution of actual religious expression in the "Celibate-Straight(Jacket) So I Rape (little boys) version of Catholicism, this experiment in human repression that they call religion. These Old Papas, who know better. And the Old Black Book. He didn't want to see women LOVING GOD the way they aren't supposed to -- they are to be submissive and unfree, and only love god the way they are told. Their 'freedom' is to be bound, right, Horse? Slaves really are more happy; demockery out of the end of a gun. Relative morality is about right -- you lot think you have the right and duty to kill Arabs for profit, so what better than to have you pretend to the moral high ground just because you grit your teeth. I was talking about his adolescent failure to protest Hitler and oppose his cause, instead of enlisting in it, supposedly because he HAD to. And the uniform was cool (according to Arnold Schwartzenegger). Not an auspicious beginning, a German Nazi, however fleetingly, after the Polish Pope that suffered under their hands. It's Springtime for Hitler and Germany.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:03:26 PM EST
    PIL Pedophilia? He admonished it, and pointed out the fact that the incidence rate among priests is no greater than (and probably less than) the rest of society. As far as your moral objections; you are free to live by your own code. You do not, however, have the right to project your own moral values onto an entire Religion and demand that their orthodoxy be manipulated to accommodate them.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 12:08:53 AM EST
    Posted by The Horse: Pedophilia? He admonished it, and pointed out the fact that the incidence rate among priests is no greater than (and probably less than) the rest of society." A society that is 30% Catholic. The same repression and anti-human flogging of women who have already been raped as in the 16th century! What a day for Catholicism. We're saved. "You do not, however, have the right to project your own moral values onto an entire Religion and demand that their orthodoxy be manipulated to accommodate them." Really! The Hitler Youth and the Taliban have a LOT in common, in case you didn't know. If a religion is causing suffering, loss of freedom, and PEDOPHILIA, then that religion is DEMONSTRABY provoking a crisis. The SAME crisis being provoked by rightwing Muslims. Two sides of the same coin of REPRESSION OF CIVIL RIGHTS. You see it as holding the line. It is CLEARLY intolerance, not religion.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#50)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 10:56:07 AM EST
    And how many in the "rest of society" have authority and influence on the scale of priests? What would be an acceptable number of pedophiles in the church leadership? What is an appropriate stance for dealing with pedophiles, certainly not saying, "Hey, we have the same rate of abusers as everyone else, so you are no safer in the Peace Corps than you are at church, although here we can save your soul"....

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 07:51:44 PM EST
    PIL Your rantings are incomprehensible. They speak for themselves. Jlvngstn What would be an acceptable number of pedophiles in the church leadership? Well, considering that the church leadership is human, I would expect 'nominal' incidence rates, although I would hope it would be much less than that. Preferably 0. Your disdain for Catholicism is palpable. Before you besiege me with "I'm not a bigot" pleas, why don't you answer this: Why do you focus only on the past shortcomings of a small number of priests, and deny all the good the Church has done? BTW - Some Catholics believe that the pedophilia and associated declining morality of some in the Church was due to 'Liberal' interpetation of Church doctrine (which allowed gays to be priests, etc...). It's an interesting theory. Wonder if there's any truth to it?

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#52)
    by glanton on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 08:30:38 PM EST
    "It's an interesting theory." You must not get out the old brain much, Horse, if you really find tghat a "theory" at all, let alone an interesting one. To those regularly striving to marginalize, "disagree with", or perhaps eve destroy if possible, homosexuals; the Catholic Church is right there with you. Just be honest about it, won't you all? Really, it wouldn't cost you that many votes from you GOP core anyway.....

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 08:46:11 PM EST
    glanton It is a "theory" that many of the "old brains" in the Vatican agree with. And I find it "interesting" that Liberals demand that Church doctrine be Liberalised (ie disregarding many aspects of Scripture and 2000 years of teaching) and decry parishoners for being "hypocrates" all in the same breath. Consider that before you accuse anyone of persecuting anyone.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#54)
    by glanton on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 09:33:37 AM EST
    Horse: I'm not talking about hypocrisy but out and out self-delusion at best, intentional deceit at worst. I don't care where it comes from, to blame homosexuals for these sexual misconducts hardly merits consideration as a "theory," that is, unless you're a winger bent on enforcing narrow and arbitrary codes onto the population as a whole. Does the claim, black people cannot hold down a job count as a "theory"? Of course not. It is persecution and an example of 'proud ignorance' to be "against homosexuality." Plain and simple. This remains true whether one hides one's vitriole behind institutional religion or not. What does it involve to be "against homosexuality," anyway? Wouldn't this new Pope and his most strident followers, like the American conservatives in general, like to make homosexual activity illegal? If not, explain the whining and drooling over Lawrence v Texas. But you can't, and you won't. Don't worry, Horse. Just stay on the alert for those homosexuals, and stay with Fox.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 11:06:55 AM EST
    glanton You are reduced to the absurd. You will forgive me for making the mistake of believing you might be interested in a rational discussion.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#56)
    by glanton on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 11:19:28 AM EST
    That is so much easier than actually responding to posts, isn't it Horse? Like it or not, the people you are defending would like very much to place a ban on homosexual activity; they have in fact been doing so for centuries and continue to strive in that direction today. That's what _L v Texas_ was all about. Yet today, neither they, nor you apparently, have the guts to come out and say I want homosexuals marginalized as much as possible (as if they aren't thoroughly marginalized anyway), and really we'd be better off if they were jailed. Now what you do is speak in terms of "theory" or "free expression" and the like, despite the fact that no actual thinking whatever goes into it. There is no way to thoughtfully "disagree with homosexuality," let alone to thoughtfully blame them for social ills. Garbage still stinks, no matter how fresh it is.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 11:35:21 AM EST
    glanton Saying the Church wants to ban homosexuality is like saying the Church wants to ban sin. The fact that they do not wish their Ordained to live in sin is not bigotry, its CONSISTANCY. The Catholic Church isn't demanding that homosexuals come to worship, so stop demanding that homosexuals be allowed to preach in the Catholic Church. Now I have addressed your talking points, so address mine, if you care about fair discussion: I find it "interesting" that Liberals demand that Church doctrine be Liberalised (ie disregarding many aspects of Scripture and 2000 years of teaching) and decry parishoners for being "hypocrates" all in the same breath. Your ability to throw garbage into an otherwise healthy discussion is unrivaled. I'll not make the same mistake in future dealings with you.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#58)
    by glanton on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 11:43:07 AM EST
    My answer to your poist ties in to the fact that you haven't addressed my posts. I have never expressed the slightest concern with whether or not the Catholics allow homosexuals to preach. What I do care about is the role the Church plays in trying to influence public policy in this country. And blaming homosexuals for its ethical problems in the United States is, first of all the height of stupidity, and secondly a powerful way to fan homophobic flames among legislators and the most ignorant among the American electorate. But again, as for those Liberals who want to force the Vatican to sanction gay priests, well, that's none of my concern. I trust the Pope can handle the pressure and keep such rules in place, he doesn't need your help. In a nutshell: if they'd stay out of our business, I'd be happy to stay out of theirs.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 11:51:33 AM EST
    glanton I never blamed homosexuals for any of the Church's problems. What I did say was this: Posted by: The Horse with no Name on April 20, 2005 08:51 PM
    "BTW - Some Catholics believe that the pedophilia and associated declining morality of some in the Church was due to 'Liberal' interpetation of Church doctrine"
    The fact that you deliberately misinterpeted this as a slight against homosexuality shows that you were interested in neither an honest discussion nor addressing the point I was making.

    Re: Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen (none / 0) (#60)
    by glanton on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 11:55:38 AM EST
    You went on to say, of course, that "[i]t's an interesting theory."

    Cathedral Bells Ringing: New Pope is Chosen | 60 comments (60 topical)