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Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military

The parents of former NFL Player Pat Tillman, who was killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan, have lashed out at the military:

Former NFL player Pat Tillman's family is lashing out against the Army, saying that the military's investigations into Tillman's friendly-fire death in Afghanistan last year were a sham and that Army efforts to cover up the truth have made it harder for them to deal with their loss.

More than a year after their son was shot several times by his fellow Army Rangers on a craggy hillside near the Pakistani border, Tillman's mother and father said in interviews that they believe the military and the government created a heroic tale about how their son died to foster a patriotic response across the country. They say the Army's "lies" about what happened have made them suspicious, and that they are certain they will never get the full story.

Tillman's parents are divorced, but are unified in their anger at the military.

Patrick Tillman Sr., a San Jose lawyer, said he is furious about what he found in the volumes of witness statements and investigative documents the Army has given to the family. He decried what he calls a "botched homicide investigation" and blames high-ranking Army officers for presenting "outright lies" to the family and to the public.

"After it happened, all the people in positions of authority went out of their way to script this," Patrick Tillman said. "They purposely interfered with the investigation, they covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy."

His mother is equally anguished:

She questions how an elite Army unit could gun down its most recognizable member at such close range. She dwells on distances and boulders and piles of documents and the words of frenzied men.

"When you don't know the truth, certain details can be blown out of proportion. The truth may be painful, but it's the truth. You start to contrive all these scenarios that could have taken place because they just kept lying. If you feel you're being lied to, you can never put it to rest."

Mary Tillman says the government used her son for weeks after his death, perpetuating an untrue story to capitalize on his altruism -- just as the Abu Ghraib prison scandal was erupting publicly. She said she was particularly offended when President Bush offered a taped memorial message to Tillman at a Cardinals football game shortly before the presidential election last fall. She again felt as though her son was being used, something he never would have wanted.

It really is inexusable that the military knew almost immediately what happened but waited until after his very public memorial service three weeks later to tell the family. Was the military using Pat Tillman to keep its image afloat, in the wake of the newly announced Abu Ghraib scandal? [link via Raw Story.]

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    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#42)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:54:18 PM EST
    Jim, I doubt that anyone's career is over as a result of this. Torture can get you a promotion these days, just look at Alberto.........

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#43)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:54:18 PM EST
    PPJ is advancing all kinds of theories! Propagandist extraordinaire.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#44)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:54:18 PM EST
    PPJ - the old throw the crap against the wall and hope something sticks gambit.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#45)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:54:18 PM EST
    Bag - What part of..."and no, the army shouldn't have covered it up. Some people's careers are over with, as they should be."..... don't you understand? Bag - Wars are nasty brutish things in which people kill each other, and in which completely innocent women, children and men are regulary killed and injured. No war is moral. Where did you get the idea it was? We do not elect Presidents to do the moral thing. We elect them to run the country, and to protect US citizens by doing the most effective thing they can do to provide that protection. Pre-emptive invasions fully fit that definition, and are approved of by the majority of the American people. Now, having said that, sometimes the outcomes of war can improve the morals of the world, and sometimes it can enhance the living conditions and lives of those that survive it. So, put aside your belief that Jimmy Carter had more than 4`years, and quit thinking that the US was put here to do only what you want it to do, which is fight wars in which we have no self interest. Assuming you actually believe the blather you spout, rather than you are just doing it for show, understanding the above will reduce the bile in your stomach and save you lots of dollars canadian in anti-acid potions. As to the Arabs gassing Israel, you may take this to the bank. They didn't do it only because they feared retaliation, not because they thought it was the wrong thing to do. And our cities will be in ruin if we depend on the good nature and love of people who have regularly and routinely announced their hatred of us. What part of OBL's death threats don't you understand?

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#1)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:39 PM EST
    Tillman was murder by a really stupid action that made no real sense in combat and on top of that read what happened after his pointless death. sad,sad,sad, end. when is bin laden?

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#2)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:39 PM EST
    IT's getting really tiresome to watch TL - and the entire left, really - pick out any slight issue they can find with the war effort and use it as a stick to bludgeon the administration. It's one thing to be opposed to policies - it's quite another to pile on in the hope of destroying a war effort and engendering a military loss.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#3)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:39 PM EST
    JR when faced with facts he doesn't like resorts to implying we are all unpatriotic and traitors. The tactic of a true coward who can't defend his stance. pathetic

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#4)
    by Pete Guither on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:39 PM EST
    There's a little concept called "honor." I believe that is what TL is advocating -- something that i grew up believing that was a cornerstone to our country and our military. Sure, we make mistakes, but we own up to them and correct them. That's one important part of honor. It's difficult, but it also pays off as it generates respect -- and when our forces are respected, their work is easier. As far as TalkLeft's posts aiding a military loss, then you have a far, far inferior view of our military than I do. I don't believe that our military is so weak that the truth will make it lose. If that was so, then it would be a very, very disturbing comment on our society.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:39 PM EST
    Hey, JR, I have a simple solution for you. Don't sign on and read a left blog if you are tired of it. We will miss you, but we will get over it. Meanwhile stop whining. As to the Tillman's - I hope their anger which definitely has some basis helps them move through all of the emotions that come with losing a child. It's an awful experience. I wish them all the best in dealing with the unfortunate death of their son.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#9)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:39 PM EST
    James Robertson, You wildly reactionary irrationalism is quite disturbing. This is a story being heavily reported right now in all the media. Just what are your implying about Tillman's family? Do you EVER engage in difficult self-criticism? The military and administration lied about Tillman purely for propaganda purposes. In doing so, they spit on his grave.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#10)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:39 PM EST
    Are you now claiming that friendly fire incidents are new, or that the military hasn't historically tried to give families - and the media - a better sounding story than "we killed him ourselves by accident?" Because if you think this is new, I have a few bridges to sell you.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#11)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:39 PM EST
    JR, The Tillman's gave their son, what have you given? As to "the left's desire to cause a military loss", this admonistration seems to not need any help in this endevour. The left did not create Abu Ghraib, the left did not issue a memo authorizing torture. Nobody could do a better job at losing battles, or public opinion, than your beloved W. Bush is the biggest traitor to america that I have seen in my lifetime.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    JR...Is Tillman's family "the left"? Don't they have the right to know how their son died? If TL doesn't mention this travesty, who will, Fox News? I wouldn't even know the govt. lied about Tillman's death if not for TL. Every American needs to understand this admin. will lie about anything and everything. Sorry if the truth hurts.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    It's getting really tiresome watching people explain away sleazy behavior by putting a partisan spin on it.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    NBC promoted the military excuse -- Tillman's funeral was going on and we didn't want to rain on their parade that's why we lied --we did it for the family. How unappreciative of the family to be so angry As for the comment about this being a left issue --I hardly think the Tillman family is to the left of anything. The military knew immediately what had happened and Tillman's parents had a right to know then as well. They argue the army would never said anything if they hadn't pushed. The army is concerned about enlistment and Tillman was a great recruiting tool. And anyone questions why recruiters are accused of lying it's comes from the commander in chief

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#12)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    JR, It is new for a president to lie about a friendly fire incident to help his reelection

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    What Roger said and..the Republican line is no printing stories that might hurt the US and now you are suggesting that since friendly fire incidents happen all the time --that is not newsworthy either. I guess you think we would all prefer to be treated like mushrooms

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#14)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    James, Friendly fire is one thing, purposely lying about it in order to serve your recruitment purposes is something completely, and immorally, different. It's not the government's job to deal with death for a family, it is their responsibility to be truthful and forthcoming.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#15)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    "it is their [the gvt's] responsibility to be truthful and forthcoming." Almost spit out my coffee at that one. Thanks for the chuckle. The gvt did what it did with an eye toward what they felt was the greater good. You may certainly disagree with their assesment. Regardless, if they got busted on this one, they'll have to figure out how to dig themselves out of the hole. Should be interesting.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#21)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    Sarcastic, Are you actually saying that it is a good thing the gov't lied to this family in this instance? Take a stand, my fellow free American. I mean, the gov't knew the circumstances but kept the lie up. Do you think it's a good idea to make a family suffer twice? I assume we both, as decent folk, think it stupid, insensitive and short-sighted. So why do you hesitate to have an opinion? Tillman was the single most high profile recruit the military has had since Elvis. That accounts for a lot.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#22)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    also Sarcastic, did you actually read to WAPO article that went with TL's post? what parts do you consider media fabrications or unsubstantiated muck?

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#23)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    Dadler, yes, considering the result, I think it was shortsighted. "what parts do you consider media fabrications or unsubstantiated muck?" Isn't this question along the same lines as "When did you stop beating your wife?" I made no such claims. btw, fwiw, I didn't realize I was initially responding to a post of yours, it was simply the last one in a long line...

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#24)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    Sarc, "When did you stop beating your wife?" implies an illegal act on the part of the answeree. When I asked, and I paraphrase, which parts of the article are you calling into question?, I assumed no wrongdoing on your part. The analogy is spurious. You said, and rightly, that I don't believe the official line. I keep asking, do you?

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#25)
    by aw on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:41 PM EST
    JR, you would be in more congenial surroundings over at Free Republic. They not only agree with you over there, they are bashing the Tillmans.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:41 PM EST
    Anyone who defends the military's and administration's lies is not worth replying to, people...save your bandwidth for Blaghdaddy... Seriously, for anyone to label this "a partisan issue" must have been asleep when the military gave Tillman a hero's funeral and told tall tales to boost the military's image (all while knowing the real truth), and when Bush mentioned Tillman just before the election (again, knowing the full truth then) is so STUPID as to leave the only conclusion- whoever's saying it is "chattering." So JR, don't bring up "friendly fire" because no one's condemning anyone over the actual death. GET IT? It's the lies and hiding of evidence (you know, the RULE OF LAW the right's always blathering about?) that are pissing everyone off... But then, you think that the inspectors hid the weapons themselves to make George look bad, right?

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#27)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:41 PM EST
    "The analogy is spurious. You said, and rightly, that I don't believe the official line. I keep asking, do you?" Spurious - good word, I've got to work that one into a post soon...although you're more into my analogy that I intended. My point was that I don't recall calling any parts of the article into question, and your post indicated that I did. Regardless, we're getting off the point. Personally, I doubt the either the official "line" nor the article's "line" is entirely correct, but that is not my point either. My point was and is that the gvt did what it did with an eye toward what they felt was the greater good. I will add that, considering the result, I think their assessment was shortsighted.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#28)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:41 PM EST
    "...you're reading more into my post..."

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:41 PM EST
    sarcastic: What bloody greater good are you talking about? We all on the Left are very familiar with the Administration's "greater good," but how is the nation's interest served by lying about a soldier's death? And sarcastic, they didn't just "tell a fib" for the greater good- they forever tarnished Tillman's name by dragging it through a post-mortem carnival and three-ring circus so that the truth left people disappointed when they finally learned it. But then, more gullible Americans may have signed their lives away based on the propaganda, and of course the military got a few more IED bodies...and George II is re-elected...so now, what's the fuss? Blaghdaddy hears you, sarcastic... And with those views, Blagh advises you to remain un-named to prevent further embarrassment. So, Blagh's waiting to hear how the country was "saved" from the truth...

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#30)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:41 PM EST
    blagh, you won't find me defending the gvt on this one, merely trying to understand its actions.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#31)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:42 PM EST
    Sarc, In order to clearly understand their actions, you need to understand their motivation. It's not what they did, it's WHY they did it. You can believe the greater good if you like.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:42 PM EST
    You understand the gov't on this one, Sarcastic-One...you just don't like it...

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#33)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:42 PM EST
    "You can believe the greater good if you like." Che, I think we're beating a dead horse. All the following by me: "My point was and is that the gvt did what it did with an eye toward what they felt was the greater good." "I think [the gvt's] assessment was shortsighted." "you won't find me defending the gvt on this one" I'm stopping now.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:42 PM EST
    One more for Blagh too... sarcastic, you're trying to deflect blame where it is due... you can try to rationalize something that is indefensible... When you start making excuses for the govt and military lying, you're advocating tyranny, and there's no way to paint that pretty...

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#35)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:42 PM EST
    Roger: What the Army done is wrong and the responsible party shoudl be hammered. That said you should read up on history about Operation Cobra, the breakout from St. Lo. Over 150 US soldiers were killed by US aircraft at the beginning of the operation. That coverup put this one to shame.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#36)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:42 PM EST
    Wile, Thanks for the link! I always love to read up on WWII. The secrecy and coverups were extreme back then. The administration tried some truly scary things (packing the courts, for example). WWII was a war over actual survival of the nation, however. While I question many things that were done (not bombing the railroad to Aushwitz), I tend to be more forgiving to FDR, as the situation really was that dire. That said, I think that this admin is more on the lying level with Johnson , Nixon, or Reagan. Big lies over little issues. No excuse for it at all. Vietnam, watergate, and Iran-Contra dont compare to Hitler, Tojo, and Stalin

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:42 PM EST
    Don't forget "WMD-Gate." $350 million, 1,700 dead Americans, and not one shred of WMD...but others will say it was Saddam's fault for not showing he had nothing... Answer: You don't go to war over hunches and guesses...and if Iraq was such a threat (read- potential threat- read- sitting duck), what is Iran? North Korea? Yeah, we know...it's different with them...the difference being they actually HAVE WMD's...

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#38)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:44 PM EST
    Blag - Wrong. If you read Bush's 2003 SOTU speech you will see that Bush declared a pre-emptive strategy that specifically said, "We aint gonna wait." Now you may not like that, but the Congress went along with it, and in our system, that's what counts. As for hunches and guessess, I am no longer amazed, but I do get a grin when I see the Left, and that's you, try to ignore all the information that said, "Take him out." And according to the Kay Report, it is a good thing that we did, because if we had waited, he would have been back in the WMD business. And after NYC was nuked, it would have been too late. And it was bipartisian. (Want some Demo leaders quotes?) Roger - I think it was in '37, not during WWII, when Roosevelt tried to pack the SC. et al - Friendly fire has killed military people in every war. That makes Tillman's death even more sad, and no, the army shouldn't have covered it up. Some people's careers are over with, as they should be. As for his parents, they have my sympathy, but in reality nothing can be said or done that reduces their loss. Of course the truth is that IF we had presented a solid front as a country the UN might have came in with us, and without the encouragement of the French, Germans and Russians, Saddam most likely would have slipped into retirement, and the war would never happened. And Pat Tillman, who the Left wants to act as if the grieve over, would still be playing football.....

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:44 PM EST
    PPJ, you miss the point once again... The fact that Tillman was killed by friendly fire is an unavoidable part of war. That the military and gov't lied about the cause of his death is inexcusable and unacceptable. Why do you disregard Tillman's family's views on this? You know better than them if their son was used by the gov't? Boy, you're smart... As for Bush and pre-emption, you think that if Bush said it 1. It's true? and 2. It's right? Really? That's your standard for right and wrong? What George II thinks? Niiiiice.....

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:44 PM EST
    PPJ is basically advancing the President's theory of "Better Safe Than Right." So Russia could attack Ukraine over their new democracy...why take chances? Let's nuke'em...better safe than right, right? PPJ just gave the world the insight into conservatism that was missing... If the facts don't fit, just say, "Yeah, but what if....aren't you glad we didn't take a chance?" Exactly HOW is that a legitimate foreign policy, and wouldn't that have excused Iraq gassing Israel "just in case the dirty Jews are up to something?"

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:55:44 PM EST
    The whole point, PPJ, being, "Pre-emption is only moral if you're right...if you're wrong, you've murdered a whole bunch of people and saying "But what if" doesn't cut it... Imagine someone bombing a U.S. city and saying, "Well, we thought they were going to attack us first..." How supportive of that defense would you be then, PPJ, when one of your own cities lies smoking in ruins over a "pre-emptive" strike that "Oop!" happened to be wrong?

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#16)
    by Johnny on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:57:30 PM EST
    easiest way to dig out of this hole is label the MSM as un-reliable left-wingers, and then have a terror alert.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:57:30 PM EST
    why do the Tillmans hate America?

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#18)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:57:30 PM EST
    JR's got the shovel and he's working furiously. But he's not very funny. Kinda sad, really. The Army continued to use the corpse of Pat Tillman to recruit and propagandize while they "waited for the results of the investigation".

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#19)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:57:30 PM EST
    sarcastic, they lied about tillman for purposes of recruitment propaganda. and who raised you? respect for the dead, and the family of the dead is called common decency. lying about how that person was killed for partisan purposes is, at best, disgustingly disrespectful. even if the military/admin. claimed to fib in order to spare the family something (i have no idea what), that would evidence even more of the military's utter lack of foresight and smarts. the same kind of smarts that keeps us supporting tyrants without a thought to the future consequences. think about it. your loved one is killed. you try to deal with that. then you have to deal with the lie behind the circumstances of his death. and the trauma is brought to the surface all over again. do YOU agree that this is a good thing to do? this isn't a homocide, where you're trying to spare an elderly mother the grizzly details of a mutilation -- this is a "war" where we all know friendly fire incidents can occur. So why lie about it, when they knew the truth early on? Because they could use his death for propaganda purposes. The glorious warrior who went down in a hail of "enemy" bullets.

    Re: Tillman Parents Lash Out at Military (none / 0) (#20)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:57:30 PM EST
    "and who raised you?" Jackels, of course, like all conservatives. Dadler, you disagree with the gvt's assessment. We get it.