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On Memorial Day

By Jeralyn, Section Off Topic
Posted on Mon May 30, 2005 at 05:27:06 AM EST
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Memorial Day, 2005: Three views I share, as an American, a daughter and a mother:

BeliefNet.org

Over the past century, more than 35 million men and women answered the call to arms in World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Persian Gulf, Iraq, and countless unnamed military engagements. More than half a million of them never came home. Some died in battle, others in captivity; all died too soon.

Recent military action in Afghanistan and Iraq has offered fresh reminders of the human reality of war: ordinary men and women leaving homes and families and all they know to risk their lives for an ideal of honor, or duty, or just to protect the soldier next to them.

People of patriotism and goodwill may debate the merits of any given war, police action, or humanitarian mission. But there should be no debate about our debt to the hundreds of thousands of our citizens who have given the ultimate sacrifice of their lives heeding the nation's call to service.

Memorial Day is more than the start of summer. It is a chance to pause and remember the sacrifices -- remember the gallantry and bravery -- remember the fallen.

TalkLeft 2004

We haven't seen too many liberal bloggers writing about Memorial Day. Skippy does, quite nicely. Skippy's dad was a WWII vet who served in the Pacific. TL's dad served in WWII in France and other places, from 1942 until 1945. Both came home to spend many years with their loved ones. We are truly sorry for the families of those who served in any war who were not so fortunate. We may be against the war, but we support our troops and feel the loss of those who died.

Minneapolis Star Tribune Editorial, 2005 .

Nothing young Americans can do in life is more honorable than offering themselves for the defense of their nation. It requires great selflessness and sacrifice, and quite possibly the forfeiture of life itself. On Memorial Day 2005, we gather to remember all those who gave us that ultimate gift. Because they are so fresh in our minds, those who have died in Iraq make a special claim on our thoughts and our prayers.

In exchange for our uniformed young people's willingness to offer the gift of their lives, civilian Americans owe them something important: It is our duty to ensure that they never are called to make that sacrifice unless it is truly necessary for the security of the country. In the case of Iraq, the American public has failed them; we did not prevent the Bush administration from spending their blood in an unnecessary war based on contrived concerns about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. President Bush and those around him lied, and the rest of us let them. Harsh? Yes. True? Also yes. Perhaps it happened because Americans, understandably, don't expect untruths from those in power. But that works better as an explanation than as an excuse.

....As this bloody month of car bombs and American deaths -- the most since January -- comes to a close, as we gather in groups small and large to honor our war dead, let us all sing of their bravery and sacrifice. But let us also ask their forgiveness for sending them to a war that should never have happened. In the 1960s it was Vietnam. Today it is Iraq. Let us resolve to never, ever make this mistake again. Our young people are simply too precious.

Update: Don't miss these photographs, from Jesus' General. So sad.

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    On Memorial Day | 25 comments (25 topical)
    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#1)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:27 PM EST
    Let us all hope millions do not follow in the coming years.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:27 PM EST
    Stone love - she kneels before the grave A brave son - who gave his life to see the slogan That hovers between the headstone and her eyes For they penetrate her grieving -David Bowie Solemn words spoken by government officials on this day are a dime a dozen. Watch what they do, not what they say.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#3)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:27 PM EST
    I borrow the words of Shakespeare's Henry V, as he addressed his little army of longbowmen at the Battle of Agincourt, and he said: `We few -- we happy few; we band of brothers. For he who sheds his blood with me shall be my brother. And gentlemen in England abed will curse the fact that they are not here, and hold their manhood cheap when any speaks who fought with us on St. Crispin's Day.'

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:28 PM EST
    IN FLANDERS FIELDS the poppies blow Between the crosses row on row, That mark our place; and in the sky The larks, still bravely singing, fly Scarce heard amid the guns below. We are the Dead. Short days ago We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow, Loved and were loved, and now we lie In Flanders fields. Take up our quarrel with the foe: To you from failing hands we throw The torch; be yours to hold it high. If ye break faith with us who die We shall not sleep, though poppies grow In Flanders fields. Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918) Canadian Army

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:28 PM EST
    My Great-Grandfather (paternal Grandmother's father) was killed on the Somme in July, 1916, and is buried in those "Flanders Fields". My Grandmother also lost 5 additional close relatives in that one month (the British had 58,000 casulties, 20,000 of them killed on the first day of the offensive). If you ever have the chance to visit Northern France to visit the World War I battlefields and cemeteries, it is haunting and makes you ponder the futility of war. There is a British Memorial at Thiepval that contains the names of 78,000 men killed during the battle who have no known grave. Thats 20,000 more missing in a five month battle than Americans killed in the entire Vietnam war. What a waste.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:28 PM EST
    Freder- I know what you mean. Standing on the battlefield at Verdun a while back was one of the most haunting experiences I've ever been through. "Il nes passeront pas".

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:28 PM EST
    TL, Thanks for all three of those articles - very nice. This has given me hope in regards to war:
    "I have often thought to myself how it would have been if, when I served in the first world war, I and some young German had killed each other simultaneously and found ourselves together a moment after death. I cannot imagine that either of us would have felt any resentment or even any embarrassment. I think we might have laughed over it." - CS Lewis
    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#8)
    by Aaron on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:28 PM EST
    It's good to look at the faces of the Americans, men and women, who have given their lives for our country. Look at their faces and think about the places that they came from, places which will miss them. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/casualties/facesofthefallen.htm

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:29 PM EST
    Some of my "nuclear" family members were either killed or critically wounded in WWII. Others were career military. Some continue to serve today. They are proud individuals, all of whom love the United States and at least respect thier military careers. I love my family, but somewhere on the other side of the world - people love their families too. Mine are far safer than theirs, and we're the ones using our power to make them less safe so as to enrich ourselves. The last war the U.S. fought and maintained an undeniable moral purpose was WWII. For the majority of the "police actions" that have taken place since, I will respect the rights/decisions of those who felt the need to make that sacrifice -- but I question the need for it and most certainly question the ethics of those who obligated our soldiers in the first place.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:29 PM EST
    Tampa, Mine are far safer than theirs, and we're the ones using our power to make them less safe so as to enrich ourselves. The last war the U.S. fought and maintained an undeniable moral purpose was WWII. Afghanistan has the same moral purpose as WW2, to destroy evil. I would argue Iraq has as well, but it was done on spec, not in response to a direct act. How are we enriching ourselves in this process? It's been quite costly in both blood and treasure. If we wanted Iraq's oil we could have lifted the sanctions and bought it.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#11)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:29 PM EST
    As my brother is serving overseas, my thoughts are will all those who are far from home and their loved ones. May you get home quickly and safely. That said, I find it harder and harder to consider the military as serving this nation in any genuine capacity. It serves certain powerful segments of this nation. And it does not defend our nation, but simply reacts to things in a more often than not bull-in-a-china-shop way. If the military genuinely defended our nation, 9/11 wouldn't have happened. Period. When I hear a young person say they went into the military to give back to their contry, I mostly feel sorry for them. They are deluded and uninformed. If you want to serve your country and defend your nation, then get into the trenches here. Only when we live up to our full potential as a nation, here at home, will other nations see us -- and follow our leads -- as the beacon of freedom to which we now mostly pay lip service. It's always easy, as a rich nation, to help in a natural disaster. What's harder is to help when the weather seems great, when only the souls of the neglected, the denied, the have nots, are storming silently below the surfaces.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#19)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:29 PM EST
    SD - The Cold War had "minimal deaths?" Should we tell that to those who died in Korea? In Vietnam? How about plane crashes in the Artic? In training accidents? That they were "minimal?" I can only wish that ghosts did exist, so that they could visit you and discuss the terror and horror of their deaths. You are free only because other men chose to fight for your freedom. At the least you could also offer a prayer for those who died doing so, without qualifications but with simple thanks.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#12)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:30 PM EST
    Well said Dadler. Too often, the military has been used as a force to keep those have-nots of the world below the surface.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:30 PM EST
    "Some people want to bomb us, even more people need to scatter and run from us." -Citizen Cope To all the poor souls sent to fight and die worldwide...I salute you.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:30 PM EST
    Dadler
    When I hear a young person say they went into the military to give back to their contry, I mostly feel sorry for them. They are deluded and uninformed
    This is SO arrogant. My daughter convinced me that Iraq and the death penalty issues in Texas took the wind out of President Bush's abortion stance (morally). Then she enlisted in the Navy. You live in a democracy based on the blood of patriots "watering the tree of liberty". If you want to argue that actively opposing Iraq or oppression at home constitutes this kind of patriotism - I agree. You have no right to imply that those who want to serve this country in the military have to be "deluded" or "uninformed". I will guarantee that the servicemen in Iraq are less deluded and more informed about the situation there than you are. And they will mostly come home. And they will bring that knowledge to bear on our future actions as a country.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#15)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:31 PM EST
    Fleetguy, I stated my opinion. My brother was in Iraq for ten months. He's terribly deluded and misinformed, and he's an officer. In private, with my mother, he'll break down and admit to having awful misgivings and resentments and guilt, and everything the military tells you to suppress. And a good number of soldiers I hear SOUND deluded. Not all, obviously, but still far too many. Many soldiers serve and make no bones about what bulls*it they're being fed by their leadership. They have no delusions. Forgive me for sounding arrogant, but mostly I feel empathetic. Having had guns pointed at in anger me more than once right here in the U.S., having lived with my young single mother on welfare and foodstamps in the ghetto, having seen freshly dead bodies from a young age here on OUR streets, I don't need any lectures on what I know or don't know about freedom and violence and fear. And my freedoms here in the U.S., I must disagree, were gotten for me -- almost entirely -- by civilians right here in America. The American Revolution was won largely by the geurilla tactics of civilian militias and the aid of the French. Our standing army often did much of just that, standing. Since then we have been the beneficiaries of geography, thousands of miles and two protective oceans from any possible (and it never was) takeover by a foreign nation. And Canada and Mexico as our only border neighbors don't hut. The other freedoms, the freedoms we genuinely consider when we think of America -- the right to vote for EVERYONE, Civil Rights, Labor Rights, Women's rights, Economic Rights, etc., were all gotten by PATRIOTS who took to the streets and risked their lives right here at home. They were beaten by company thugs and police, set upon by dogs and firehoses, they were disappeared, fired from their jobs, blackballed in their communities, always lived in fear of being a victim of political, racist, whatever kind of retributive violence that went unpunished for so many decades. The brave men and women who fight overseas have done just that. Fought overseas, largely for the freedom of others, often nobly, but too often as the pawns of a quasi-imperialist foreign policy that robs other nations of the right to make their same stumbling mistakes toward freedom that our isolation allowed us.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#16)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:31 PM EST
    Hey, Dad. What happened to the view that you can't say anything unless you've been there (wherever "there" is)? The troops who went to Iraq know less than you. That makes you a lefty for sure.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#17)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:31 PM EST
    dadler - Your comment about the Revolutionary War and the army reveals a staggering ingnorance of the subject. And then you make it worse: "And my freedoms here in the U.S., I must disagree, were gotten for me -- almost entirely -- by civilians right here in America." Have you studied the Civil War? Has anyone ever told you that Esienhower dispatched the US Army to Little Rock in the fall of 1956 to enforce Brown v Board of Education? Do you not understand he was capable of making this politically unpopular move because he knew that the Army would not refuse. That it was divorced from internal politics? Do you not understand that this makes us totally different from the bananna republics in CA and SA? And do you not understand that the US fought a Cold War with the Soviets for over 40 years? And that people died? Do you think there is any difference in the death of a sailor in the North Atlantic on guard against attack by the Soviets, and one killed during WWII? Dead is dead. Evidently you understand none of this. "Forgive me for sounding arrogant," you wrote. Sorry. No forgiveness, just sadness at such a profound lack of education about the country. And an even sadder feeling that you can't even give those who have died one small prayer on Memorial Day.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#18)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:31 PM EST
    And then you make it worse: "And my freedoms here in the U.S., I must disagree, were gotten for me -- almost entirely -- by civilians right here in America." Have you studied the Civil War?
    The civil war accomplished what exactly with respect to freedoms? Yes the slaves were set "free" and were certainly better off, but did they have the freedoms of the whites? Clealy not. Improvement in their ability to enjoy the freedoms that the whites had came decades later not because of the military but because of committed politicians, religous leaders and many everyday people. The Cold war was just that cold, with minimal deaths. The stand off occurred because of assured mutual destruction, and the winning of the Cold war came about because of a combination of true democratic desires nutured over decades in the eastern block and the collpase of the economic system of the USSR under its incompetence and inefficiency. There is no doubt that the brave men and women who go off and fight with the understanding that they are protecting America deserve our thanks and admiration. But those feeling don't automatically apply to the leaders who sent them. Under the neocon philosophy and the Bush leadership the military is being used not to protect our people from violent attacks, but to protect our SUV's from high gas prices. Thats why we have troops all over Central Asia, thats why we support the dictator in Uzbechistan, etc etc. The current tendency to glorify the military to unprecendent heights is truly a scary phenonemon, given the people currently leading this country. The military is important, but it is not a substitute for a coherent, pragmatic foreign policy. The use of the military to further the goals of empire of the current administration and its neocon members demeans and lessens the true contributions the military has made to this country.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#20)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:32 PM EST
    as you are well aware when people talk of the cold war, Korea and vietnam are not usually included. The rest is your usual self rightous nonsense. BTW after having attacked Dadler, I don't see you debating my rebuttal. Why am I not surprised.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:33 PM EST
    Dadler, You are positively correct about our freedoms being defended in the streets at home. But again, you need to see a couple of different views of the world: Dadmanly; Debate space.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#23)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:33 PM EST
    Fleet, I get it. When I was twelve, my family sponsored three families of indo-Chinese refugees, fleeing from the consequences of the Vietnam War. I saw men, women and children with bullet wounds, watched them cower in their house for two days until they trusted us enough to accept a meal. I have plenty of experience. I simply disagree with the idea that we're all supposed to sit here and consider dadmanly's perspective as the most valid one. I don't. My mother's friend had a son in Iraq. He was terribly wounded by an incendiary device fired into his Humvee on the airport road in Baghdad. After nursing these terrible physical and psychological wounds, he had a mental breakdown and refused to go back to Iraq when he was ordered to. Now he's awaiting court-martial. I have plenty of perspective. We simply disagree. We are destroying Iraq in order to move our bases from Saudi Arabia. That's all I can conclude. Because to equate Saddaam, a secular dictator, with the kind of militant Islam behind 9/11 is, to me, utterly unsupported by facts and logic.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:33 PM EST
    Dadler, I never said Dadmanly's is the most valid. I said it is a viewpoint we should understand. It is interesting to look at Iraqi blogs - both for and against Democracy; and for and against the US involvement (two different issues of course). The perception is that whatever their opinion about US policy - the assumption is that American citizens would uphold that. Now you and I know (from our frequent chats) that is not true. Now I know that US citizens are not going to buy a long, drawnout guerrilla war in Iraq. Part of the lessons (right or wrong) from Vietnam is that if the Iraqi government is popular; or at least the process is - the Iraqi government will be able to put an army in the field in a relatively short period of time - and while not ending the insurgency, be able to control it themselves. If not, then it calls into question the popularity of the process and/or the government. Already, backers of the process in Iraq are beginning to ask the US to withdraw its troops from the cities into the countryside - and let the new government deal with the insurgency with backup if needed from the US. The other point of Vietnam is that the most effective opponents of the war ended up being the VVAW - because they were there. So, I consider vets on the ground in Iraq to be the best raw data on popularity of the process; and popularity of the insurgents. The other point is: the "citizens" of the military are no more unthinking puppets of the military structure than you are a puppet of the US government. Listen to both sides, and respect that their vantage point may be better than yours; and help you improve your analysis and positions.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#25)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:33 PM EST
    Fleet, In THIS SPECIFIC CASE I just don't agree with you. Our venture in Iraq was based on lies and deceit. I have come to that opinion after much research, though, consultation. And I agree, military folk are no more puppets than I am, by which I assume you mean they are all individual with their own opinions. Which is what I believe and stated. The opinions of a soldier from East L.A. and one from Omaha are likely to be as different as ours. Perhaps that's the real irony. Look, I don't support the way this "war" has been and IS being waged. I couldn't support it less. What I do support is the dignity of everyone involved. Meaning, soldiers sent to die on a lie oughtta be taken care of. As should civilians in Iraq. We are currently doing neither. What we are doing is maintaining the policy of a Bush administration so bereft of honesty and intellectual soundness that it boggles the mind. Remember, Bush supports the war in Iraq for the same reason he OPPOSES federal funding of stem-cell research. That kind of intellectual disconnect and absurdism is only magnified when the killing is real, as in Iraq.

    Re: On Memorial Day (none / 0) (#26)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:33 PM EST
    Fleet, By the way, thanks for the dialogue. I think this kind of thing between people, especially fellow US citizens, makes the internet invaluable. We may not agree, but at least we are able to express and experience the other's POV as we never would've been able to just a few years ago.

    On Memorial Day | 25 comments (25 topical)