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Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the Draft

By Jeralyn, Section Military Draft
Posted on Thu Jun 02, 2005 at 11:15:55 PM EST
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If they try to bring back the draft, as the parent of a draft-age son, and as one who actively protested the draft the last time around, you can be sure I'll be in the front lines of screamers. Markos of Daily Kos, as an appreciative enlistee and veteran of Gulf War I, makes a persuasive case against the draft. And parents across America are now getting ready to holler loud.

I think the "special skills" draft will be first. And with all the troubles recruiters are encountering, it may not be long off. [Here's a piece on a recruiting scandal in Colorado reported last month where a high school kid went undercover and got tapes of recruiters offering to help him a pass drug test and get a phony diploma. As a result, the Army shut down 1,700 recruiting stations for a day.]

Read the 2003 official memo (pdf) on the Special Skill draft. If you are under 34, with special medical, computer or language skills, or the parent of one who is, be very afraid. Women also will have to register under plans being considered. And Canada will not be an option.

Other good reads:

Sen. Tom Harkin's statement from October, 2004:

What if all-out civil war breaks out in Iraq and we have to increase our troop strength to 200,000 or 300,000 to quell it? What if a newly re-elected Bush decides to act pre-emptively against Iran, Syria or North Korea?

Today, people are hesitant to join the National Guard or reserves because of skyrocketing odds of being sent into combat or kept away from family and jobs for a year or longer. Morale, enlistments and re-enlistments are falling, at the same time that military manpower needs are rising dramatically.

So where would a re-elected Bush get the manpower to pacify Iraq while pursuing the next phases of his doctrine of pre-emptive, unilateral war? There is only one viable option: a reinstated draft.

Prediction from recently deceased Col. David Hackworth:

Although Pentagon puff artists insist they’re making quota, recruiters are already saying it would be easier to find $100 bills on the sidewalk outside a homeless shelter than fill their enlistment quotas, even with the huge bonuses now being paid. So the draft – which will include both boys and girls this time around – is a no-brainer in ‘05 and ‘06.

Bruce Springsteen, introducing his band's rendition of "War" by Edwin Starr, Los Angeles, September, 1985 (scroll down about 3/4 of page):

"If you grew up in the 60s, you grew up with war on tv every night. A war that your friends were involved in...and I want to do this song tonight for all the young people, if you're in your teens... because I remember a lot of my friends when they we were 17 or 18, we didn't have much of a chance to think about how we felt about a lot of things. And the next time, they're gonna be looking at you, and you're gonna need a lot of information to know what you're gonna wanna do. Because in 1985, blind faith in your leaders, or in anything, will get you killed. Because what I'm talking about here is:
War!
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing....

Come back, Country Joe. Actually, he's back, singing his new song, Cakewalk to Baghdad:

I remember back, before we whacked Iraq
I was watching the news, were we gonna attack?
A man named Richard Perle came on and talked
He said going to Baghdad would be a cakewalk

Cakewalk to Baghdad,
Cakewalk to Baghdad

It went real easy,
Took a couple of weeks
Tore down that statue
Set those Saddamites free
The Frogs and the Krauts, they feel real bad,
They missed out cakewalkin' into Baghdad

Cakewalk to Baghdad,
Cakewalk to Baghdad

Next we're gonna cakewalk into Teheran,
Gonna cakewalk to Damascus and Pyong-yin-yang
When we strut on in,
Everybody's gonna cheer
They'll be wavin' old glory,
We'll have kegs of beer, just like that...

...Cakewalk to Baghdad,
Cakewalk to Baghdad

Now moms and dads don't worry 'bout
Your soldier boys and girls
We're just sending them cakewalkin'
Around the world
When the coffins come home and the flag unfurls
Cheer for Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Perle

Cakewalk to Baghdad,
Cakewalk to Baghdad

Do you think we'll see those Bush boys patrollin' the streets
Like our soldiers got to do in Basram and Tikrit?
We gonna see Richard Perle cakewakin' 'round
The streets and alleys of Baghdad town?

Cakewalk to Baghdad,
Cakewalk to Baghdad

Easy to cakewalk in ... not so easy to cakewalk out.

We could use Arlo about right now too.

Here's the best site, bar none Enjoy the Draft , made in assicaton with Blogpac.

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    Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the Draft | 48 comments (48 topical)
    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#1)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Well, I imagine I'd be at the top of the "special skills" list, but I'm not too worried... they probably don't put computer engineers on the front lines.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Ahhh Country Joe still got it. Bet you won't be hearing him on Clear Channel radio anytime soon. Actually, Wolfie almost got cakewalked by a rocket from a donkey cart in Baghdad. Man, would that have been poetic justice.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    I won't live here if there's a draft. Of course our Corporate State would love to utilize all bodies who can't work for them fighting wars to gain resources. How much more economical than all this incarceration. Frankly I'm sick.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Canada is an option if you get your butt up there before the draft goes into effect...you'll already be across, and there would be plenty of time with it going to Congress, and then the Senate... Of course, Blagh will need some advance warning before he is able to convert his future dream country estate into a bivouac for American "draft-dodgers." (And if you think he's kidding, try him...) Question: Wouldn't this be a great time for the President to fulfill his "missing National Gurad Service" months? After all, in the words of this great President to Mrs. Dubya every night, "Every body counts..."

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#5)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    I knew of should have run an under/over on when you would bring back a "fear the draft" post. There's not going to be a draft, so flogging this dead horse simply shows how desperate you are for some issue, any issue, that will get attention.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    JR's right...Bush tries a draft after telling the world of America's "self-sacrifice" and sounds even more retarded than he actually is... No draft...the polls will ensure that....book it...

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Canada not an option? Hardly. If you are physically fit enough to be drafted you can get to Canada. Securing the Canadian border is an impossible task. Last time I went canoeing in Quetico Provincial Park in Canada I "reported" to American customs in Ely, MN. (about 40 miles south of the Canadian border). That involved dropping off a customs form at the customs office in Ely (nobody was there at 3:00 in the afternoon). The outfitter we went through said they had four agents to cover all the groups going into and coming out of Canada out of Ely.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Blagh'll let you in on a little hunch about this little "agreement" between Canada and the U.S... Notice the agreement is only about helping Uncle Sam keep his little traitorous "non-soldier" ants on his side of the border... Could it be, Blaghdaddy muses aloud, because if a little ant manages to make it, like the escaping slaves along the "Underground Railroad," they'll then be welcomed with open arms and be permitted to stay and build a life in the "True North Strong and Free?" Blagh would put money on it. *And to those who think that last line's a shot at America, it ain't- it's a line from the Canadian Anthem...) Blagh met his ex-wife's boss once (she's a legal assistant), who just happened to be an ex-pat American who'd left the U.S. (from Louisiana, and a conservative to boot!) during the Vietnam War. He'd settled in Canada, passed the Canadian bar and is now a senior partner of the law firm Blagh's ex worked for years back... He and Blagh, on a company cruise around the Toronto Habour Islands, consumed much beer and talked long into the night (his wife left him with Blagh and took off) and he, a conservative Southerner, was mightily glad he'd done it... He has his ideology (over which we argued with amical passion), but in the end, he'd just wanted to live and build a life...

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Sorry, "amicable passion..."

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    I'm not concerned, a draft would be a disaster for the admin. I would fight for my freedom, as would droves of other young people. Massive civil disobedience would follow. Deep down the rats must know this. I got no quarrel w/ no Iraqi.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    The recruitment problem tell the story about US support for these wars and the country's move to use aggressive war under the name of pre-emptive war. The chicken hawks will have to make some tough choices: cut back on their enthusiasm for sending other people's children out to kill and be killed, institute a draft to fill the ranks, get out their themselves with their own kids to spread freedom and democracy. Another option just came to mind: stop paying all veteran benefits and medical coverage, disband the armed forces altogether and contract the wars directly with Halliburton, CACI, Titan, etc. Private industry could no doubt do war more efficiently than bureacratic government agencies.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    I would possibly be a candidate for the "special skills" draft as I am a software developer and technician, and only 22. The way I see it, a draft forces me into a position of violence. Either 1. Violence against the poor people overseas who have done nothing to me and my countrymen or 2. Violence against the rich people who want to put me in harms way and send me to kill said poor people. I say, with all honesty, I shall have to choose the latter. I deplore violence and will not take up arms against this government (or anyone for that matter), so long as they continue to let me lead a peaceful existence. However, if they should force violence upon me with threat of bondage, than that violence shall be directed against them, and them alone. If I am selected for conscription, than I shall have no choice but to go to war, but it would not be the war that those who would conscript me have in mind. I should hope that this sentiment is resonant amongst us, and the people at large.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Draft? What draft? We don't need no stinking draft. It will bring on massive mutiny. Bring it on. "The Pentagon has now disclosed that fraggings in 1970 (209 killings) have more than doubled those of the previous year (96 killings). Word of the deaths of officers will bring cheers at troop movies or in bivouacs of certain units."

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#14)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Uhg … the draft non-issue again, can we finally kill this urban legend? If by some marvel congress was able to reinstate the draft the Dems could sweep both the legislative and executive positions with a plank of repealing it (after they forwarded it, hypocrites). They couldn’t get even a single tour of duty out of the first draftee. I think most of the folks calling for a draft are unhappy with the scale of military action possible with the current volunteer army. A bit shortsighted; as poorly as the military is doing with it’s recruiting I think they will need to scale back our foreign non-fighting presence and perhaps scale back our battlefield presence. Am I the only one noticing foreign and domestic base closures? I know how nicely a reinstated draft would fit in your paradigm of the overarching corporatism/globalization/neo-can power-grab (already gearing up the military industrial complex rhetoric, mfox?), but sorry, it’s not going to happen. There is absolutely zero support. “So where would a re-elected Bush get the manpower … There is only one viable option: a reinstated draft.” Ah, Senator Harkin, a man of finite wisdom (or ulterior motives). How about we simply leave Iraq? How many congressional republicans would commit political suicide for their second term president? Give me a break.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#15)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Blag - Glad to see you are all over the thread telling the dumb Yanks what to do. Always nice to watch someone with no dog in the fight tell the people involved what's what. et al - I don't know what frighten's the Left the most. A Christian cross or a draft card. ;-)

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    PPJ- There are always more people watching than those with the "dog in the fight..." That don't make the dogs any smarter than the people watching...

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    PPJ needs to quit bellyaching about how the left becomes frightened and don a military unifotm. He can show us all how it can be done. I won't hold my breath and stand on one leg. PPJ is the ultimate chickenhawk. He talks the talk, but I doubt if he can even walk a cakewalk.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    PPJ, you keep talking about gutless liberals, how many Republican Senators or Congressmen have an eligible child serving in the military? How many of them served themselves? Any numbers, PPJ?

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#19)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    dronchee - Sorry to pop your bubble, but I did my ten years in Naval Aviation, so I can speak with a fair amount of experience with the military. Are you a veteran?

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    The fact that you served and can support what is going on right now is disgusting to this humble blogger, PPJ...and he doesn't really care what your smart comeback will be, either...disgusting...

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    No. Ten years in Naval aviation, eh? I've been defending the US for some 50 plus years. Right now, it is more important to save the Republic, the war in Iraq is lost, but not over. The empire be damned.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#22)
    by roger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Ok Jim, I have to give my 2 cents on this; 5 years Army airborne, 101st Rabid Bush hater, anti war Not all vets are right wing!

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#23)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Blag - I have seen various numbers sets, each of which someone else disputes... Perhaps you could take a personal poll by calling each Congress person. To me it is a meaningless number. I advocate Universal Service. As for politicians "serving".... I refer you to FDR and Lincoln. Two war time Presidents who did not serve. And I didn't call Liberals "gutless." And I do not appreciate you making a false claim with inflamatory rhetoric. I just said Demos and the Left don't believe in National Defense. They will, of course, argue they will support a war they believe in. Some might. Many would never find one they believed in. And the reality is, in a constitutional republic, you don't get to pick and choose what laws you obey. You do, however, get to pick and choose the congress people, and the president. Since a parlimentary system has the congress people choose the Prime Minister, the difference is significant. And you may be as disgusted as you please. And if you want to speak of finding things disgusting... Guess my opinion of you... dronchee - So you have never served. Typical. Roger - I knew that. And your country thanks you. ;-)

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#24)
    by soccerdad on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    The Demos antiwar? Thats a laugh. As a party they have spoken out very little against the war. Kerry certainly was not an anti-war candidate despite the rights attempt to portray him as such. So ppj why don't you support your assertions that Demos are antiwar wrt Iraq. Note: citing a few as antiwar doesn't cut it.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#25)
    by aw on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    PPJ: And I do not appreciate you making a false claim with inflamatory rhetoric. I just said Demos and the Left don't believe in National Defense.
    Where to start?

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    PPJ, did you hear the breaking developments on the Virgin flight from Europe headed to New York that was diverted over a false terror alarm and escorted safely to Halifax Airport in Nova Scotia, Canada, by Canadian CF-16 fighter jets? Just this morning? Looks like the "do-nothing" Canadians are once more watching America's back, all without fuss, fanfare or even a friendly "Gee, thanks" from your great President who, because we won't kiss America's Ass, won't thank us for watching its back...all in the spirit of neighbourliness... But don't worry, PPJ, we're getting used to it, and people like you, though they make it tempting, will never stop Canada from looking out for America's interests...we just won't help you murder innocent foreigners...your Army's bigger than ours, so you do it...

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#27)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    “ … will never stop Canada from looking out for America's interests.” This is a very naive attitude. Countries very rarely, if ever, create policy based on anything but their own interests. If Canada looks out for US interests it is because those interests are common, reciprocity is expected, or the American image of Canada (an I think this is it) has a vital economic impact.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#28)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Blag - Why do you keep bringing up Canada? I quote what I wrote in another thread:
    "And the question is to you, not your country, and not to your military who I have done joint operations with and who I know are very good."
    You again make a false claim.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    PPJ, how many US citizens of the total of 275 million have never served? I have worked for the US gov., if that counts any. I was there on the day a Vietnam Veteran tricycled on the north side of the US Capitol on an adult tricycle with the flag waving upside down. I was the first person to approach him to ask what his motives were. It was June of 1973 during the waning days of the Vietnam War. Everybody knew by that time that the handwriting was on the wall. President Gerald Ford granted clemency to draft evaders and deserters in September of 1974. He pardoned Nixon, so it was only fair to pardon those whose conscience bothered them enough to not want to have a dog in the fight. Maybe your weren't alive in the mid-sixties when 160 or so Americans were killed each week during the height of the Vietnam War. Maybe you don't remember that the US evacuated Saigon on April 30, 1975. If President Nixon did one good thing during his presidency, it was getting us out of Vietnam. It was the smartest thing he ever did. If George Bush has a lick of sense, he'll withdraw US forces from Iraq and make amends with the Iraqi people. It will do a world of good. He will have some compassion for Americans if he does.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Sometimes you're so full of sh#*t PPJ, that you defy logic.... PPJ:Blag - Why do you keep bringing up Canada? Because, PPJ only a retard would end a discussion by asking "What have you personally done?" Have you asked your f*#king President that, before you ask Blaghdaddy? Blaghdaddy ain't American, but if he was, he's the type who would have joined for military service...Canada's just wasn't worth joining, truth be told...you wanna fight wars, join the Marines, right? So why does Blagh keep bringing up Canada? So you'll remember how long Blagh's memory is next time you shoot your fat mouth off about Canada "standing on the sidelines" and "not having a dog in this fight," and "nice for Canadians to offer their opinion..." PPJ, if Canadian fighter jets are escorting American citizens to Canadian airports to protect them from terror threats, you've a lot of f*#king nerve talking any smack about Canada or Canadian...

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#31)
    by roy on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Last time we had one of these "the draft is coming, maybe, according to somebody" threads I complained because nobody has suggested a draft, because the U.S. has previously been able to build a larger all-volunteer military than we have now, and because Bush & Friends know it would doom the Republican party. But lying and baiting the enemy to start a war should have doomed them. Covering up war crimes of which we have photographic proof should have doomed them. Slumping recruitment numbers and stagnation or worsening conditions in Iraq should have cued a change in approach. Bush is very good at A) making mistakes and B) avoiding the consequences. So I have to upgrade the draft from "cheap shot at the administration" to "legit possibility".

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    ON SECOND thought, roy, everything you just said makes perfect sense... There really nothing Bush wouldn't do if he thought he could get away with it...except for be AWOL while on National Guard duty, right PPJ? Who'd a thunk you'd serve in the military and end your days supporting a draft-dodger whose phony wars are going to bring back the draft... Have you renewed your medication?

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    Honestly, I admire Bush's convictions. But he will have to face reality pretty soon. The Army and Marine Corps are running out of troops and materiel and unless the shortages are addressed quickly we can not maintain current troop strengths in Iraq much beyond another year or so. If we can't win in a year we are going to have to quit unless we increase manpower and pour more money into vehicle maintenance and acquisition. The alternative to a draft is for Bush to have a serious address to the nation and demand that the youth of this nation volunteer for the military and that their parents encourage them to enlist. Then he should back up that speech by accompanying his daughters as they report for Officer Candidate School (one in the Marines and one in the Army would be a nice touch). Tearful goodbyes from Laura would be perfectly appropriate. Additionally, the President should tell the country that we should not burden future generations with the costs of the war and announce taxes hikes sufficient to at least cover the $80 billion in "emergency" appropriations he keeps asking for.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#34)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:40 PM EST
    All you have to do is look around and see how they are ginning up for a war with iran and/or syria (already laid out in PNAC Warning;PDF format). There'll be an 'attack' or lies about WMDs (they've already started) and then they'll have the excuse they need to start the draft. bushco will hit the trifecta again if someone doesn't stop them.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:40 PM EST
    Bush will do the honorable Republican thing. Skulk out of office and let the next President take the heat AND get out of the kitchen. Bush can go back to Texas to pack up the ole ranchero (he won't be needing it anymore and can vacation at the family's Northeast (lol) estate in Kennebunkport again). Then there'll be the library... etc. Then the next pres can have the equivalent of the Fall of Saigon, or the Brits w/drawal from Palestine again, with the accompanying pics of desperate Iraqi's getting blown up by terrorists there to fight us. Then next pres can come on TV and give the "we're losers" speech. Once BushCo.'s finger comes out of the dike the flood of accusations will fall on a deaf administration's ears. "It wasn't us!".

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#36)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:40 PM EST
    dronchee - How many have never served was not the question. My question was in response to your comment that I was a chickenhawk, to which my response was that I served 10 years in Naval Aviation, and when I asked you if you were a veteran, you responded that you had been serving the country 50 years. To which I merely noted that you weren't a veteran, and that I found your comments typical. Trust me. Working for the government is not the same as serving in the military. Among the more obvious differences is that in government you may expect to not be shot at, sent thousands of miles away, and receive a court martial if you tell your boss to shove it. As for age, I'm mostly retired so I remember WWII (faintly), Korea (clearly), Vietnam (totally) and the Cold War almost from start to finish. So I find your attempts at justification humorous and self serving. But I do not condemn or chastise you for not serving. Many did, many did not. In my view all should serve at least two years, starting at age 18, or upon graduation from high school. It would remove some of the glamor some see, and would make the military more democratic. It would also let many of of our children meet and get to know real people of other circumstances in real situations. And, in the long run, it would remove the natural tendancy of all organizations to develop a "us and them" attitude. Such attitude would be highly dangerous to a democracy. Reference Rome. Blag - Bring the subject of Bush's "AWOL" on an open thread and I'll be happy to link you to all the information you need to understand that that is just another bogus charge. And I wasn't drafted. It was an honor to serve. As for your vulgar and scurrilous comments, understand, again, my comment which you would like to ignore.
    "And the question is to you, not your country, and not to your military who I have done joint operations with and who I know are very good."
    And you can't show one comment by me towards Canadians as a group. In fact, the comment I quoted proves you totally wrong. But I think this covers the subject of military service.
    "Blaghdaddy ain't American, but if he was, he's the type who would have joined for military service...Canada's just wasn't worth joining, truth be told...you wanna fight wars, join the Marines, right?"
    I am sure that the Marines would welcome you. You could probably become a citizen very quickly. I will await your service address so I can send cookies.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#37)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:40 PM EST
    PPJ:
    And the reality is, in a constitutional republic, you don't get to pick and choose what laws you obey. You do, however, get to pick and choose the congress people, and the president. Since a parlimentary system has the congress people choose the Prime Minister, the difference is significant.
    Er, PPJ? In Canada we do have a parliamentary system; the "congress people" are called "members of Parliament", and I'm pretty sure they don't elect the government, or the Prime Minister. The PM is the leader of the majority party in Parliament. Anyway, what's your point? That the US is more democratic than Canada? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (I could go on, but even you should get the idea at this point). You're right, Canadians look after their own interests. That's why we wouldn't touch Iraq with a 10-foot pole, and we politely (always) told Bush where he could bury his farcical missile defense system. (Hint: Not in Canada). When the United States chooses to threaten the entire world with violence, the entire world has a dog in this fight.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#38)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:40 PM EST
    Anybody but me remember when this thread was about the american draft and parent's opposition to seeing their children be maimed and killed?

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:40 PM EST
    I remember, and I'm about to remove the name-calling comments and ask you all to go back to the topic of the thread.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:40 PM EST
    Ok, I'll apologize to PPJ for calling him a chickenhawk. Those who serve do deserve respect and recognition. You get it from me, PPJ. The draft will spell trouble bigtime for the US military. I was offered to serve in the Marine Corps after I gradiated from university. I declined the offer. My Peace Corps assignment was also cancelled. It wasn't that I was unwilling.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#41)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:40 PM EST
    et al - The only way to make a draft work is to make it universal. No exceptions. No deferments. Just two years for everyone, and then two weeks a year for update training, and maybe a weekend every two months. If you are a CA, we always need medics. If you can't handle the physical part of battle, we always need mechanics, cooks, storekeepers, truck drivers, etc. dronchee - No problem, and I don't think I did anything special. I joined because I felt the attraction of serving in a dedicated group, and I was rewarded beyond my wildest dreams. Al - My terminology may suck, but I believe the PM is selected/elected by members of his or her party who have been elected to parliment.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:40 PM EST
    Lefties don't support the idea of National Defense? Demos don't suppor the idea of National Defense? Well, this one does. Read this, for starters.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#43)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:40 PM EST
    The only way to make a draft work is to make it universal. No exceptions. No deferments. Just two years for everyone, and then two weeks a year for update training, and maybe a weekend every two months.
    Good call, PPJ. I've been in favor of Chuck Rangel's proposal as I believe the main benefit would be that if this were in effect, the Iraq invasion would never have happened. A nice side benefit would be giving a few pampered upper class kids a much needed drill sergeant's foot in the @$$. :)

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#44)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:40 PM EST
    I did, you should, think of how not to be in any war, its not fun but if you want, go for it. but also remember the people will hate you for it. long live the American Servicemen. oh yes the woman to.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#45)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:40 PM EST
    TL, I'm sorry this is off-topic, but I have to enlighten PPJ. PPJ, as I explained before, the leader of the party that has a majority in Parliament forms the government. Party leaders are indeed elected in party conventions, just as American presidential candidates are. In a parliamentary system, the executive is not separate from the other branches of government. This means that the government is permanently scrutinized by Parliament, and may even be brought down in a non-confidence vote. If the Bush gang were subjected to such scrutiny, they wouldn't last a week.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:41 PM EST
    I wouldn't worry about the special skills draft. A regular draft would be difficult to manage, but a special skills draft would be nearly impossible. Consider, no one is yet registered as having such "special skills", so first there would have to be registration....and then the draft. Two opportunities for non-compliance! Further, people possessing these special skills will be largely folks with families...who in turn will be motivated to fight against such a draft. Could you imagine the outrage if they tried to draft a 30-plus year old nurse with three kids and a mortgage? My guess is that they will contract these jobs out to third-world folks.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#47)
    by Aaron on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:41 PM EST
    That's crap about Canada, there's no way the Government of Canada will deport people from their country to be used by the US military as cannon fodder. The Canadiens and their government have more compassion for human life than that. And getting into the country is no problem, I know plenty of places in the northwest where you can slip across the border quietly. My father fought the draft successfully, but by uncle went to Vietnam after being drafted. He came back a different person, screwed up for life. The only way the US military gets my kid is after they pry her from my cold dead fingers. Let those pseudo patriotic morons send their children to die in the Middle East, I'm sure they'll be comforted in their grief with the knowledge that the life of their child was spent serving the cause of neocolonialism in our time. Not my kid baby.

    Re: Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the (none / 0) (#48)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:41 PM EST
    Al - That's what I said. Claxton - Nice article, and very true. Of course when we get our airliners equipped with anti-missle hardware... Makes Pogo's, "We have met the enemy and he is us," even more true.

    Parents Balk at Possible Reinstatement of the Draft | 48 comments (48 topical)