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Time to Support Howard Dean

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Fri Jun 10, 2005 at 07:07:48 AM EST
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TalkLeft has never been a "Deaniac." He was not my choice for the Democratic Presidential nomination in 2004. But I agree with Kos and Atrios, we need to support him, and the Democratic party, now. Give generously.

Update: Jann Wenner weighs in on the Dean flap at the Huffington Post - and he's right.

Karl Rove, Ken Mehlman, and Tom DeLay don't even have to bother attacking Howard Dean anymore; their work is being done for them by the stalwarts of what's left of the Democratic Party establishment.

....the bottom line effect of all this sniping is to marginalize and shame Dean for speaking a truth that the Republicans do not wish spoken or given credence. Our guys are doing the work of the so-called GOP Echo Machine.

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    Time to Support Howard Dean | 20 comments (20 topical)
    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#1)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:55 PM EST
    Dean's a truthteller. Has been since he stepped onto the national scene. His "God, guns, and gays" line ranks up there among the truest observations ever publically uttered by a politican. All of which explains at least two things: 1)The interest he has generated in scads of people who had been hitherto completely burned out on the lying liars who dominate the voting booth; and 2)The vendetta of the MSM against him. This is more of the same. We can't have someone with a megaphone cut through the smoke and mirrors like Dean consistently does. Wouldn't be prudent. I have given money to Dean in the past and will again.

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#2)
    by ras on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:55 PM EST
    Republicans and Democrats alike are saying the same words: "Dean is the best thing we have going right now." Long may he run.

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#3)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:55 PM EST
    The PROBLEM is that Dean, despite his passion and committment, is NOT an imaginative or creative guy. Period. If he were, he would have no problem dealing with his slips of the tonuge. I support him, but I don't think he's going to get the job done. We need someone who has an acute sense of humor, who can be self-deprecating, who can speak the truth AND NOT BACK DOWN!! Dean is not that guy. The Dems need to find an artist, a writer, someone who has made their living with nothing more than the power of thier mind and imagination. THAT is what is needed, THAT is what is lacking. To deny it, and attempt band-aid solutions couched in the same kind of harmless political rhetoric, well, it's a loser's task on the left.

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:55 PM EST
    how about someone who can appeal to voters who don't hate America or think of it as the cause of the world's problems. by all means, write off the christian vote-I am sure the moveon folks will pick up the slack. don't listen to those republicans-keep the guy.

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:55 PM EST
    I forgot to mention-quoting is not the equivalent of attacking.

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#6)
    by Lora on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:55 PM EST
    I have and will always support Howard Dean. Democrats, alas, are another story.

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:55 PM EST
    Yeah Ed -- like my VERY Christian born-again sister, who decided, after supporting him in 2000, that Bush is a false prophet who has murdered tens of thousands of innocent people Jesus said to protect and love -- you mean those Christians? See, here's the beauty part -- you guys don't read the Gospels. EVER. My theory is that the Old Black Book is such a confusing pile of contradictions that you lot start off strong at 1 Genesis and never make it to 6 Matthew, where Jesus says, "You cannot serve both God and money." Howard Dean isn't the second coming. He's a politician, and deserves all our thanks on either side of the original, not-for-false-profits, nation.

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:55 PM EST
    personally, I don't go to church. I'm just not frightened by made up boogeymen(the coming right wing theocratic takeover-somehow aligned with the neocon jewish cabal) when the real nasty thing exists in this world. by all means, continue to insult christians and rack up those electoral victories. black christians/churches/hispanic catholics are significant to the Democratic party-do you think they appreciate the insults to their religion? Or, is their vote simply taken for granted?

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:55 PM EST
    I thought that 80% of Republicans are white, was it offesnive to say this?

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#10)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:55 PM EST
    GregZ -
    "Of 3,643 Republicans serving in the state legislatures, only 44 are minorities, or 1.2 percent. In the Congress, with 274 of the 535 elected senators and representatives Republican, only five are minorities - three Cuban Americans from Florida, a Mexican American from Texas and a Native American senator originally elected as a Democrat."
    "President Bush's home state leads the way. Texas, with a minority population of 47 percent, has 106 Republicans in the state legislature, but there are 0 blacks and 0 Hispanics among them,'"
    link

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#12)
    by BigTex on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:56 PM EST
    I can't believe how fooled Dean-o has y'all. He's setting Hillary up for her reelection bid in 06, and concurrent positioning to run in 08. He sounds off to the far left, and she is moderate by comparision. Recient polls show 44% saying they wouldn't vote for her in 08. Along comes Dean sounding off to the left of the leftie wing-nuts. The usual wing-nuts disassociate themselves from Dean. Clinton doesn't... that's a clear sign that she's supporting his actions. Why, because she looks more moderate in compairson, and her numbers improve. For all the conspiracy theories that float around here, it's suprising to see y'all didn't catch on to this one. --BigTex

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:56 PM EST
    The usual wing-nuts disassociate themselves from Dean.
    Joe Biden and John Edwards are wing-nuts?

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#14)
    by BigTex on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:56 PM EST
    No, but Polosi is. EDM, do you take joy in misreading most of what I say, or is that just your nature?

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#15)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:56 PM EST
    Well, Tex, really you haven't said much on this thread, if you want to know the truth. Regurgitating Talking Points about Pelosi isn't quite the same as challenging something she has said or done, is it? Same with Dean, of course. When you look at his record in Vermont--you know, the things he actually did--he is revealed as quite the moderate. Neither being passionate nor telling the truth makes one an extremist or a nut. Roy Moore is cool and collected whenever he's in front of a camera and yet his ideas are nutty. Yet the bread and butter strategy for you people is to ignore reality and focus everything on framing.

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#16)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:56 PM EST
    Tex, Take the big Christian chip off your shoulder, please. It's Pelosi. And it was Biden and Edwards that were in the media doing the Dean disassociating.

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:56 PM EST
    Hey Ras - why should anyone left of Rush Limbaugh care what you think about Howard Dean's attitude? Are you the first Neocon Apologist Canadian Swing Voter or something? Sure, I'm pretty amused by Dean's words. Do I believe there aren't any Republicans in Washington D.C. that have ever put in an honest day's work? No. Republicans hate it when you reverse the same characterizations and generalizations that provide the foundation for their rhetoric. That is the hallmark of Dean's rhetoric. Since I believe that Conservative swing voters in the here and now are about as real as Santa Claus, I really could care less if a handful of trophy wife "Soccer Moms" who still believe Iraq was necessary are offended. I have no desire to sing Kumbaya next to a Conservative come election time. Especially not after all that has transpired over the past 5 years.

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#19)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:56 PM EST
    et al - Again. If Dean didn't exist the Repubs would have to invent him. His remarks keep the Repub base at a fever pitch without the Repub leadership having to raise a finger. Meanwhile the Demos have to either ignore his comments, and be painted with them, disavow them, which angers the Demo base, or agree, which makes them look even more unreasonable. TS writes:
    "Are you the first Neocon Apologist Canadian Swing Voter or something?"
    Hey, I thought that was Blaghdaddy's job! ;-)

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#20)
    by BigTex on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:56 PM EST
    Same with Dean, of course. When you look at his record in Vermont--you know, the things he actually did--he is revealed as quite the moderate.
    Glanton - You make my case far more convincingly than I did. Dean-o was someone who acted moderateish a governor. He had some ideas that were out there in the '04 primaries, but he also had some ideas that were workable. Now he's suddenly saying things that are incederary. Even the "Dean Scream" that killed his campaign wasn't incenderary. It's not what was said, rather it's the change in behavior that makes it look like he's a stooge for Clinton, and she reinforces the idea by not disassociting herself from him. If we take EDM's claims with them, that moderate dems are disassociating themselves from Dean, and add to that the Hillary is trying to position herself as moderate, but is not disassociating herself, it only looks more like he is acting on her behalf. If she weren't trying to encourage him to continue his out incederary ways to gain from his behavior by contrast she would have dissassociated herslef from him too. No doubt the Roy Moore is exterem, but so is Dean-o, just in a different manner. Statements of truth don't make a good defence to extreemism. White supremicist groups make truthful statements regarding unemployment and prison statistics regarding minorities. Does the truth eliminate those actions from being extreme? I havent' seen any talking points saying that Dean's doing this on Clinton's behalf. Most of the talking points are along the lines of conversion i.e. this is who the Dems chose to be their leader, does he represent the party you want to belong to? EDM - Pelosi was out in front of the cameras too disassociating herself from Dean-o. If there is a chip on my shoulder, it's not because I'm Christian. It's the double standard applied to statements made. If a repub were to make comments along the line that the democrat party has gone from a party of the working man to the party of minorities and world firsters liberals would take offence. Dean-o's statements are in the same vein (both are incedeary hyperbole), yet his comments are being hailed as acceptable because they are the truth. --BigTex

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#21)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:56 PM EST
    Tex, "because they are the truth" is the key to your post. Read Kathleen Parker's take on "Dean-O"--I'm assuming you dig her since a)she's extremely hot :-)and b)she posts on Townhall. Anyway, as she says and as you yourself just said, Dean is right about the GOP being an almost entirely white, Christian party. It's saying it, and saying it the way he does, that pisses people off. And I'm not that kind of person. I like to hear the truth spoken better than I like slick, comfortable Talking Points. In that vein, your analogy about the "working man" doesn't work because we both know there's one helluva higher percentage of working people in the Dem camp than there are nonwhites or nonChristians riding the GOP. That's just a fact. And I'm glad Dean said it because it's important. The word needs to be out there that in America, if you're not a white Christian, if your lifestyle is in any way deviant to the norms espoused by Jerry Falwell and Clearchannel, then your rights are basically afterthoughts, if that. And it sucks that this is the way in America, which as an idea welcomes a staggering breadth of people and ideas into its fold. But that's an illusion now. And thank heavens someone with a megaphone has the balls to say it. BTW: His governance in Vermont wasn't pretend time, he was a legit governor and noone can refute his status as a moderate Dem. Policy wise that is. But I'm sensing that like Jim, you're less interested in policy and truth than in spin.

    Re: Time to Support Howard Dean (none / 0) (#22)
    by BigTex on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:56 PM EST
    Naw glanton, I'm not interested in spin. Haven't been to townhall in over a year now. But I do think that Dean-o is setting himself up to the far left to make Hillary look more moderate.

    Time to Support Howard Dean | 20 comments (20 topical)