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Detaining Cyrus Kar

by TChris

Update: The Washington Post writes about the four other U.S. citizens detained by the U.S. after being arrested in Iraq.

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Cyrus Kar was born in Iran, but he's lived in the United States since he was two years old. He's a naturalized citizen who played high school football in Utah and Washington before serving in the Navy. Kar's ambition was to make a documentary about "an ancient Persian king who championed tolerance and human rights." To that end, he traveled to Iraq to film archeological sites. But tolerance and human rights, increasingly scarce commodities in the U.S., are even less in fashion in Iraq. Kay was busted in Bhagdad, supposedly because "suspected bomb parts" were in the taxi in which he was riding.

Since then, Mr. Kar has been held in what his relatives and their lawyers describe as a frightening netherworld of American military detention in Iraq - charged with no crime but nonetheless unable to gain his freedom or even tell his family where he is being held.

Although an FBI search of Kar's LA apartment (and the contents of his computer) found no evidence that Kar supports terrorism, the Bush administration has been stonewalling the efforts Kar's relatives are making to find him.

Mr. Kar's relatives and their lawyers said they had been utterly stymied in trying to learn his fate despite repeated inquires at the Defense Department, the Justice Department, the State Department, the allied forces in Iraq and the offices of two United States senators.

The administration's callous disregard of fundamental rights is a poor model for the free democratic society that the administration claims to have created in Iraq.

"Saddam Hussein has had more due process than Cyrus Kar," said Mark Rosenbaum, the lead lawyer in the case. "This is a detention policy that was drafted by Kafka."

Ironically, Kar supported the president's decision to "export democracy" to Iraq. Perhaps he misunderstood the nature of Bush democracy: the kind that reserves autocratic powers to the administration and its military.

< Joe Wilson on What Rove Didn't Know | Stupid Arrest of the Week >
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    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#1)
    by Joe Bob on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    Well, that now makes two we know about, Cyrus Kar and Jose Padilla. That is, American citizens held by our own government without charges and without trial. This should alarm everyone.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    Why does Cyrus Kar hate America?

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#3)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    After they let him out I would make him write the following 1000 times on a whiteboard. "It is stupid to go into a war zone to make amateur movies."

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    "It is stupid to go into a war zone to make amateur movies."
    If he'd been shot by insurrectionists, that might be a fair comment. Getting arrested by US forces without charges, and held indefinitely at an undisclsed loction, ought not to fall within the risks a US citizen assumes by entering a war zone . . .

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#5)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    rea - Actually the post leaves out a very important point which one can only get from the Times article, and only then if one is a subscriber.
    After a taxi they were in was stopped in Baghdad, the two men were arrested by Iraqi security forces, who found what they suspected might be bomb parts in the vehicle.
    The US didn't arrest him. The Iraqi police did and turned him over to the US. He got lucky there. The obvious question now is, how can the US release this person if the Iraqi police want him held? Is he guilty? Based on his background, perhaps not. But a reasonable person would say, "Let's have a trial." In the meantime, repeat after me. Do not volunteer to go in to places where bad things can happen to you.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#6)
    by Johnny on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    "Do not volunteer to go in to places where bad things can happen to you." Jim! That eliminates the entire US military! Also, keep in mind that since cars are used to transport bombs, logically we could detain anyone driving a car-the sum of its parts could be considered a part of a bomb...

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    if his conduct is suspicious or he is found in a vehicle with stuff that could be used to make bombs, is anyone surprised he is detained? people are actually being blown up there-for them, it's not a joke (I know, the real patriots there are the insurgents doing the bombing, we are the villains). he is lucky to be in US custody.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#8)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    Yeah, I always check the entire vehicle out before I get in the taxi. Undercarriage mirrors, the works. I even send samples out to the lab. I know every single molecule in that taxi I get into. Oh, and every bus, and subway. I wonder what Mr. Kar's NEXT documentary is going to be about.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#9)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    He is an American citizen 'detained' by Americans. He should have due process just like any other American. Locking people up and throwing away the key w/o charges or trial is unamerican.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#10)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    Sailor. What key-throwing are you referring to? How long do we hold suspected terrorists before it's too long? If he gets a trial and is convicted, will you holler about that? Never mind.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:53 PM EST
    Freedom on the march??? Yeah...a death march.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#12)
    by Mreddieb on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:54 PM EST
    PPj Apparently all the Young repuglicans are heading your words "Do not volunteer to go in to places where bad things can happen to you." I think you have just made a fruedian slip there. Your words sound like you got them right out of GWBushbag the Coward's play book.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#13)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:54 PM EST
    If he gets a fair trial and is convicted, that's the way the system works. But he hasn't been charged and his whereabouts are kept secret. that just ain't american.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#14)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:54 PM EST
    Key segment of the WaPo article left out by TL: "Whitman said the Iranian-American was captured with several dozen washing machine timers in his car _ items that can be used as components in bombs. In Los Angeles, relatives identified him as Cyrus Kar, 44, a U.S. Navy veteran who lives in that city. He was in Iraq to film scenes for a documentary on King Cyrus the Great, founder of Persia, when he was arrested at a checkpoint in Baghdad in mid-May, his family said. They also said he has been cleared of wrongdoing and there is no legal authority for his detention." Two things: 1) The article says his car (not a taxi), although that could be mis-reporting 2) He was arrested by Iraqis and turned over to US forces. meaning, he's subject to Iraqi law, not US law.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#15)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:54 PM EST
    Kar's situation is, possibly, enlightening. Going to Iraq NOW to make a film on a guy who's been dead for several thousand years and will probably still be dead next year--hence no hurry--seems really, really stupid. A guy could get killed over there. Why hasn't he been kidnapped by terrorists and beheaded? Now that I finished my rhetorical question, I find myself saying, "hmmmm. Yeah. Why hasn't he?" But anyway, if he thought it was okay to run around Iraq filming a documentary on a long-dead king, then he must have thought it was pretty safe and stable. Either he was right, at least for the places he planned to be, or he's a freakin' moron. What if he was right and just got into the wrong lane someplace and ended up in Baghdad before he could get to the next freeway exit? Is everyplace else except toward the Syrian border okay? If so, why don't we know about it? How did he find out? Or maybe he was really trying to be a mad bomber. Do we know for certain he wasn't? Does a documentary filming trip make good cover? You have to get around. You need to talk to scholars. You need to have a car and equipment which might fool some illiterate security guard. Personally, if somebody said he was going to Iraq to make a documentary, I'd be suspicious of his motives or his mental stabiliity.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:54 PM EST
    The idea of holding people indefinitely without charges makes me very uncomfortable, and I am alarmed, but it's not un-American. It's been done in past wars, not invented by this Administration. And people need to realize charges, trials and juries of your peers don't apply to WARS. You don't just get your day in court. These are not people accused of shoplifting slurpees from the 7-eleven. One more thing: I have no idea if this guy is guilty of anything, but does anybody find it strange that someone would go into a dangerous war zone to film a documentary about the founder of Persia? I could almost understand risking getting your head blown off to film a documentary about the war raging around you, but King Cyrus' story couldn't wait a little?

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#17)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    holding people without charges IS un-american, it doesn't matter whether it has been done before. He shot footage all over the middle east, not just Iraq. The sites he was visiting may not be there in the future becaue the US has shown no deisre or ability to protect iraqi historical or cultural treasures, (or munitions dumps.)

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#18)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    If he did indeed have a bunch of washing machine timers with him, does that make a difference?

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#19)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    "If he did indeed have a bunch of washing machine timers with him, does that make a difference?" If he had them on him, of course it makes a difference. But the american judicial systen is set up ta answer just these type of questions.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#20)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    Well, Sailor, if he had timers with him, he's not a criminal. He's a combatant. You don't need a trial for that, any more than you needed a trial to determine that a guy in a German uniform with a Wehrmacht paybook and a German weapon lying on the ground in front of him is a combatant. Combatants don't get trials. They get held until the end of the festivities. This one, however, could have a happier ending. If he was fighting against the US, and since he's a US citizen, this is treason of the death-penalty type.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#21)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    "a guy in a German uniform with a Wehrmacht paybook and a German weapon lying on the ground in front of him is a combatant" So now the guy's a NAZI!? I call godwin's law, you lose. Next.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#22)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    Sailor, I said nothing about Nazis. But, let's see. About 7% of the Germans were in the party. I don't know, but let's say three-quarters were men. I believe you had to be in the party to be an officer in the forces, and to be any rank in the SS. By the time you do the math, the likelihood that a Wehrmacht enlisted man was a Nazi is pretty slim. So, no Nazi. Not even a good try.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#23)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    ra, you said that this guy was a nazi and then linked to a site that said hillary was goebbels.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#24)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:56 PM EST
    Sailor. You apparently think the folks on this board are as stupid as you pretend to be. I didn't say anything about Nazis, and I don't link. Lame.

    Re: Detaining Cyrus Kar (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:02 PM EST
    Hi there, I just couldn't help but try to clarify some of the comments and questions you've all been making regarding Cyrus. First, TChris, thank you for bringing Cy up. I think the more he is mentioned the more American’s will realize what has happened to one of our own. Yes, he’s an American. He went to elementary school here, high school, college, etc. Yes, he is also a vet. He joined the Navy before college and the reserves after graduating. Along with that, he is a focused and passionate independent filmmaker. Cy has truly been engrossed in his project, his manuscript, and his film. He has given the last three years of his life to this film. He felt that Cyrus the Great wasn't well known enough. This guy created the first charter of human rights like 2500 years ago. We have leaders now that still don't fully understand the concept of Civil Liberties. Cy thought this was pretty cool. I can't say that I blame him :) Anyways, after three years on this project, “In Search of Cyrus the Great" he was near completion. He had interviewed all the well-known scholars on the subject and filmed most of the sites of King Cyrus’s conquest, throughout the world. Only one thing was missing- scenes of Babylon. If I remember correctly this is where Cyrus the Great freed the Jews and allowed them to return to Jeruselum. This, of course, led to the beginning of Christianity. So, basically, it was kind of an important part of history and of the film. I'm sure all aspiring film makers reading this now know why he felt he needed this footage and needed to go to Iraq. How can you make a documentary entitled, "In Search of Cyrus the Great" without following his footsteps to Babylon? After waiting two years, he finally realized that this war isn't going to end any sooner. So he and his cameraman received all the proper permits and Visas from both the US and Iraqi embassies. They got to Baghdad, checked into their hotel, grabbed the first taxi they could find on the street... and that is the end of it. The taxi had one or more washing machine timers supposedly in the trunk. The taxi driver did confirm that Cy and Farshid (his cameraman) were strangers to him. But nevertheless, all three men disappeared into Iraqi and US military custody. The first time the government ever acknowledged to his family that he was even in their custody was to the press this last week (they never ever responded to phone calls and emails from the family in the last two months). I’d like to point out a few personal facts about Cyrus. 1) He grew up in the US and I believe English was his first language (not that this should matter). 2) He became a member of our armed forces and, until the day he left for Iraq for his project, fell asleep every night under an American flag in his bedroom (no joke- the guy is way patriotic). 3) He is a HUGE fan of Bob Marley- I’m sure all insurgents love Rastafarians ;). Anyways, on Cy’s behalf his family filed a habeas corpus case and has already been granted a hearing in DC in which Bush, Rumsfeld, and Harvey must give the court, by 2:30pm Monday, the reasons why they are holding him. If you are interested in the details of the petition filed on his behalf check out