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Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up

By Jeralyn, Section Valerie Plame Leak Case
Posted on Thu Jul 14, 2005 at 10:29:15 AM EST
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Update: Crooks and Liars now has the video of Joe Wilson on the Today Show.

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Bloomberg News reports that Joseph Wilson's accusations against White House officials hold up against Republican accusations against him.

The main points of Wilson's article have largely been substantiated by a Senate committee as well as U.S. and United Nations weapons inspectors. A day after Wilson's piece was published, the White House acknowledged that a claim Bush made in his January 2003 state of the union address that Iraq tried to buy ``significant quantities of uranium from Africa'' could not be verified and shouldn't have been included in the speech.

While the administration was justified at the time in being concerned that Hussein was trying to build nuclear weapons, ``on the specifics of this I think Joe Wilson was right,'' said Michael O'Hanlon, a scholar of foreign policy studies at the Brookings Institution in Washington.

Wilson appeared on the Today Show today and called for Karl Rove to be fired for abuse of power. And Raw Story has an exclusive new interview with Wilson.

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    Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up | 41 comments (41 topical)
    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#1)
    by swingvote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:13 PM EST
    Too bad his denials don't. Like denying his wife got him the assignment in the first place. Or that he claimed to have debunked fake documents that hadn't even been written at the time. Place your faith in Joe at your own risk.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#2)
    by swingvote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:13 PM EST
    And now a dispatch from the "Oh damn!" department: Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#3)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:13 PM EST
    Justpaul, Been rading many RNC talking points lately? Like a good bushlicker, you continue to smear Wilson even tho he outed a criminal. Nobody with an IQ over 70 gives a s**t who sent Wilson. Neoc**ts just want to divert the attention from the real traitors here. Even the WH admits the Africa uranium statement should not have been in the SOTU. You just go after him because of your blind loyalty to liars and murderers. Keep trying.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#4)
    by swingvote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:13 PM EST
    Che, Still trying to connect the dots on that Happy Meal placemat or have you moved on the the Little Orphan Annie decoder ring? (Here's a hint, it says "Drink more Ovaltine"). Joe Wilson has been shown to be a liar, and by his own testimony, in his own book, he has shown that there was no criminal because there was no violation of the law. Valerie Plame was not a long-term covert agent for at least 6 years before the Novak article was published, and the law specifies a 5 year time limit. Joe Wilson clearly knew the whereabouts of his wife for that time period, as she was raising their children in Virginia. As such, his claim that the law in question was broken was made even though he knew it was false. Let's just hope that he didn't make any such claims under oath while testifying, or it may well be Joe Wilson who ends up in jail. Finally, I think it really says something about you that you consider USAToday to be an arm of the RNC. As noted previously, from your position on the spectrum, Ted Kennedy must look like a ring-wing whacko par excellence. It's a shame when people who claim to be open-minded turn out to be nothing but idealogues. It makes the conversations so much more boring.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#5)
    by ras on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:13 PM EST
    As for the SOTU, Bush made an assertion as to what the Brits had found, correctly noting it as such at the time. That he now - perhaps - thinks he shouldn't have mentioned it in that prtiuclar pseech neither confirms nor denies its veracity. Of note, the Brits still stand by the claim. Of greater note: The Left is still trying to win years-old battles. Did they not hear the bell? That fight's over. As for Rove per se, does the Left swing for the fences on any pitch? Looks like it, and with predictable results. There's no there, there, guys, no matter how much you wish it to be so.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#6)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    Too bad his denials don't. Like denying his wife got him the assignment in the first place. That's a lie, as confirmed by the cia: "The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him. " Or that he claimed to have debunked fake documents that hadn't even been written at the time. Provide links or stfu.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    Here’s an interesting tidbit on the Bush/Rove/Plame/Wilson debacle that sums things up quite nicely. From Salon:
    Two years ago, the White House told the American public that "the president knows" that Rove wasn't involved with the Plame leak and that he would fire anyone who was. Now we know that Rove was involved and that Bush hasn't fired him yet. That's the reality unless the Republicans can create a new one, which explains just a little about why they're trying so hard to do so.
    Very, very true. Also from the same Salon article:
    It explains why you're hearing that Plame wasn't really undercover -- she drove her car to Langley! -- when the CIA, as an agency official once acknowledged, would never have referred the case to the Justice Department if she weren't.
    Watch the righties spin, spin, spin!

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    "As such, his claim that the law in question was broken was made even though he knew it was false." There's a lot more than one law in question. Rove (and the other administration official who talked to Novak) can be prosecuted under the espionage Act whether or not she was covert. "Finally, I think it really says something about you that you consider USAToday to be an arm of the RNC. " I think it says something about you that you consider Bloomberg to be an arm of the DNC " Of note, the Brits still stand by the claim." "The Brits" still stand by the 45 minute claim. Doesn't mean it's not true. Nobody is putting their "faith" in Wilson's veracity. It's the Republicans who are making this all about Wilson. The only person whose veracity matters is Novak's.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#9)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    That he now - perhaps - thinks he shouldn't have mentioned it
    The US government has acknowledged that documents showing Iraq tried to purchase yellow-cake nuclear material from Niger were bogus. "
    The issue came up as the White House was preparing a landmark speech for the president in Cincinnati in October 2002, in which Mr Bush would say: "The regime has been caught attempting to purchase up to 500 tonnes of uranium oxide from Africa - an essential ingredient in the enrichment process." "We told Congress that the Brits have exaggerated this issue," one senior CIA official wrote in a memorandum to the national security council." However, it reappeared in the president's State of the Union address the following January, causing consternation in CIA ranks.
    Fleischer: Now, we've long acknowledged -- and this is old news, we've said this repeatedly -- that the information on yellow cake did, indeed, turn out to be incorrect.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#10)
    by mcoletti on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    Also the claim that Valerie Plame was not NOC when outed by Novak is provably a lie.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#11)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    It really makes you wonder where these people come from who are permanently posting the offical talking points on every single story that has to do with the Bush administration. It's interesting. They have abandoned the line that Karl Rove had nothing to do with the outing of Plame, because, well, it's turned out he did. They have also abandoned the line that Plame was not a covert CIA agent (why would Fitzgerald bother with this if she wasn't?), and fallen back to mumbling something about how many years it had been since her last covert mission, as if they had any idea themselves. They are back to trying to discredit Joe Wilson. A valiant try, but futile. It would be amusing if it wasn't for the fact that so many people's lives have been destroyed because of these goons.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#12)
    by swingvote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    Ginger, Please provide the post where I stated that I believed Bloomberg was an arm of the DNC. I won't hold my breath. The only law Joe Wilson has ever referenced to my knowledge is the 1982 act. Whether or not you think you can find some other law to find a violation of, my statement holds true unless Joe himself said that was the law being violated. Can you name such an instance? Sailor, In the Senate hearings, a Feb. 12, 2002 memo was produced in which Valerie Plame touted her husbands many alleged qualifications to the people making the choice. That document has been verified. Which is not to say that she "gave" him the job, only that she recommended him for it. Which is, of course, something Joe denied her ever having done. My point here is simply that this man can't even tell you honestly where his wife was for the last 6 years, or whether she sent a memo out touting him for a job, yet we are asked to believe that he was able to get to the truth of whether Iraq tried to buy uranium from Niger without his even having bothered to provide an actual report. Maybe you are willing to believe that because your need to find something to scream about overides any concern you ever had for the truth. But if this was a conservative individual denouncing a liberal president, you would jump all over this as proof positive that he was a flat out liar and could not be trusted to tell you what color the sky is. And you wonder why so many of us see no difference between the wingnuts and the wangnuts. Two sides of the same bad penny. I'll get back to you on the link.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#13)
    by swingvote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    Al, I never denied that Rove might or might not be involved. Until quite recently, I didn't say anything about Rove at all. And you might try reading Joe's book before you continue to claim that a covert agent was outed in the first place. Valerie Plame does not fit the law in question, regardless of how many times you claim otherwise. Does this mean that it was right for anyone to announce to the world who she was and what she used to do? No, of course not. I never said it was. But if it's wrong to have done so, her husband is at the top of the list of people to prosecute for it, because he's the guy that named her. How many people outside of their immediate circle even knew that Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson were married? Rove can burn for all I care, because I'm not a Republican and I don't back them to the hilt the way so many here back every utterance from every liberal moron. But I would prefer he be burned for a real offense, not something you made up in your daydreams. As for the ad nauseum accusation of spouting talking points: What do you think you're doing right now if not repeating verbatim today's Howard Dean monologue?

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#14)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    justpaul, Why don't you document your allegations. Here are two of them: Wilson denied that his wife recommended him for the uranium investigation. He claimed to have debunked fake documents that hadn't even been written at the time.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    "My point here is simply that this man can't even tell you honestly where his wife was for the last 6 years" Uhhh, that would have been treason had he done so. yes, go look up the links to the RNC talking points and get back to me.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    john horse challenged justpaul to:
    Why don't you document your allegations.
    Very good suggestion. I would like to see the links to justpaul's information. justpaul, please provide them. Thanks.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#17)
    by ras on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    BTW, Lefties, you might waana ask yourself this: Judith Miller is still in prison, so whoever she's protecting aint Karl Rove (yeah, like she would anyway). Meantine 36 media co's have filed a brief w/the court insisting, page after page after page, that no laws were broken. Before you run off trying desperately to score points where there are none to be scored, consider that this thing is about to do (from your pt of view, at least, tho not mine) a 180, and the real loser is shaping up to be the NYT and those who support its position. Cut your losses while you can. You heard it here first.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#18)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    Cut your losses while you can. You heard it here first. Your concern that the Democratic party might blow its chance to hammer the GOP is touching. There's something about political advice from a wingnut to stop what I am doing that tells me that I am doing exactly the right thing. Thanks for the confirmation.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#19)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    What do you think you're doing right now if not repeating verbatim today's Howard Dean monologue? Please provide links. All I did was google ridiculous lies posted previously and provide links to credible sources to disprove them.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#20)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    Ras, I'm sure that when reporters like Sid Blumenthal investigate this, the story will take a 180 and Rove will be exonerated. Umh, never mind.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#21)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    et al - Here's what the Repubs have to say about Wilson's charges. I just love it. Haven't had so much fun since the children were still at home. "He did it!" "No she did it!" "Who brought the car home empty?" "Not me!" "Mama said it was okay!" "Who has my skate key!?"

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    Ras, really if that is the case, the president should cancel the investigation as if no law was broken, he should hold a press conference and declare it so. He should tell the CIA that they were wrong to request the investigation and let the other CIA agents know that if they do not like their politics and they are not covert, they are subject to outing. It seems to me that pursuing an investigation where no crime was committed is a waste of taxpayer monies and a drain on human capital. Why has this not happened?

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#23)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    Smear Joe Wilson all they want, frankly my dear I do not give a darn. What I do care about is why the president is allowing my taxpayer money to finance an investigation where no crime was committed. Are there any republican senators or anyone in the administration stating this was not a crime, or is it just Rush and O'really and scarb and hannity? Political quagmire. No one from the administration wants to be seen as "anti-cia" nor do any of the senators. And going on the record to say it is not a crime will not win many friends in the intelligence department now will it.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#24)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    Rove's a traitor. His loyalty to the USA ends where his loyalty to the Republican Party begins.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#25)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    P.S. I notice a long period of inactivity until the repubs released their talking points on this issue by the right commenters in here. Does that go to argument about a lack of independent thought? It amazes me how little of their own thoughts and opinions are expressed in this blog. Again, argue all you want about Joe, he was not the one "outed".

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#26)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    justpaul:
    As for the ad nauseum accusation of spouting talking points: What do you think you're doing right now if not repeating verbatim today's Howard Dean monologue?
    (Rats, they're on to me. How could they possibly know I am the chair of the Canadian chapter of the DNC?)

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#27)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:14 PM EST
    PPJ, Lets take the first GOP talking point. They use this quote to prove Wilson claimed that "the Vice President’s Office Sent Him To Niger." Here is some of the "evidence".
    Joe Wilson: “[W]hat They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby’s Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ...” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 8/3/03)
    However, Talkinpoints Memo posted the full quote. Note the things that they cut out.
    WILSON: Well, look, it's absolutely true that neither the vice president nor Dr. Rice nor even George Tenet knew that I was traveling to Niger. What they did, what the office of the vice president did, and, in fact, I believe now from Mr. Libby's statement, it was probably the vice president himself... BLITZER: Scooter Libby is the chief of staff for the vice president. WILSON: Scooter Libby. They asked essentially that we follow up on this report -- that the agency follow up on the report. So it was a question that went to the CIA briefer from the Office of the Vice President. The CIA, at the operational level, made a determination that the best way to answer this serious question was to send somebody out there who knew something about both the uranium business and those Niger officials that were in office at the time these reported documents were executed.
    Doesn't the full quote prove the very opposite of what the GOP claims? Why did the GOP take this quote out of context? How does it feel to be a conduit for a bunch of liars?

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#28)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:15 PM EST
    John H - Here is the Repub quote:
    “Wilson Said He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President’s Office. “In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. … The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.” (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, “What I Didn’t Find In Africa,” The New York Times, 7/6/03)”
    I note that the above is from a NYT op-ed dated 7/6/03. Your quote is from CNN on 8/3/03, almost a month later. Let’s look at it:
    “WILSON: Well, look, it's absolutely true that neither the vice president nor Dr. Rice nor even George Tenet knew that I was traveling to Niger.” What they did, what the office of the vice president did, and, in fact, I believe now from Mr. Libby's statement, it was probably the vice president himself”
    Reasonable people can differ, and Wilson wallows all over the place. But the last statement pretty well nails it. Put the first and last statements together.
    "In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office (7/3).....I believe now from Mr. Libby's statement, it was probably the vice president himself” (8/6)
     He believed it. He said it. BTW - By the use of the "full quote" comment you imply dishonesty. Perhaps you didn't note the different dates. I hope so, because I thought better of you than for you to deliberately mistate something.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:15 PM EST
    PPJ, yeah...so...

    what's your point?

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#30)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:15 PM EST
    PPJ: This is the exact kind of stuff that demonstrates your fraudability (i learned that from bush) The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.” He does not say the VP sent him. He says the agency sent him so that THEY could provide a response to his office. Jim, your patriotism and love for your country is as fraudulent as your purported sagacity.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#31)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:15 PM EST
    Justpaul, First you say to me: I think it really says something about you that you consider USAToday to be an arm of the RNC Then you respond to Ginger by stating: Please provide the post where I stated that I believed Bloomberg was an arm of the DNC. I won't hold my breath. Could you be any more hypocritical?

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:15 PM EST
    Jlvgnstn... really if that is the case, the president should cancel the investigation as if no law was broken, he should hold a press conference and declare it so. He should tell the CIA that they were wrong to request the investigation Yeah...and nobody on the left would be screaming "cover up" if he did that....LMAO....

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#37)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:15 PM EST
    PPJ, re: "Problem is, the quote you put out is NOT what the Repubs used." Well here is what the Republicans used to "prove" that
    1.) Wilson Insisted That The Vice President’s Office Sent Him To Niger: Wilson Said He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President’s Office. “In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. … The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.” (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, “What I Didn’t Find In Africa,” The New York Times, 7/6/03) Joe Wilson: “[W]hat They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby’s Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ...” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 8/3/03) Vice President Cheney: “I Don’t Know Joe Wilson. I’ve Never Met Joe Wilson. … And
    I guess the reason that I thought that there... The reason that I believed that the Republicans were using the CNN quote to support their allegation that Wilson said the Vice President's office sent him to Niger was because that quote is directly under the allegation. (Good grief PPJ, can you be so dense!) Regarding your theory that Wilson occasionally told the truth, then "went into denial", not even the GOP make that claim. However, you need to make out Wilson to be like a Jekyll and Hyde, one minute speaking the truth and the next covering up the truth, usually in the same interview. Since the only way you can support your position is to take Wilson's statements out of context, you need to rationalize the statements that contradict your position by making the claim that he is in "denial". Maybe you can explain to me why your explanation is better than Jlvgnstn's (The agency officials asked Wilson to travel to Niger to check out the uranium story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office). His explanation takes into account everything that Wilson said. Speaking of being in "denial" PPJ...

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#33)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:16 PM EST
    PPJ, What you did is precisely what I am talking about. You take two quotes out of context and put them together to prove something that is not true. What the Republicans claim is that "Wilson Insisted That The Vice President’s Office Sent Him To Niger." However, he clearly states that the (CIA) "agency officials" (not Chendy) "asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office." As Jlvngstn notes The agency officials asked if Wilson would travel to Niger to help provide a response to the vice president’s office. That is not the same as saying that "the Vice President's office sent him to Niger." Regarding my full quote remark. Did the Republicans use all of the quote that I cited or did they use only a part of it? Why do you think they only used part of the quote? Wasn't taking a quote out of context dishonest?

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#34)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:16 PM EST
    PPJ, Let me simplify things. The only way that you can support the Republicans talking point that Wilson insisted that the Vice President’s office sent him to Niger is by taking quotes out of context, cutting and pasting. However, this does not work for all the statements that Wilson made because some of them directly contradict that allegation. You yourself acknowledge this when you say that "Wilson wallows all over the place." The only explanation that takes into account all of Wilson's statements is Jlvngstn's. You can always cut and paste to make someone appear to say something they did not actually say. By the way, I don't understand what the date of the quote has to do with anything. If it is not relevant because it came from a later interview then why did the Republicans use it on their website?

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#35)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:17 PM EST
    John H - Cut and paste? Simplify? Honesty? Here is what you said:
    “Lets take the first GOP talking point. They use this quote to prove Wilson claimed that "the Vice President’s Office Sent Him To Niger." Here is some of the "evidence".”
    Problem is, the quote you put out is NOT what the Repubs used. Their quote was based on his 7/6 NYT op-ed. The quote you used is from a CNN interview on 8/6. But even then we find that Wilson concludes that ….
    “I believe now from Mr. Libby's statement, it was probably the vice president himself.” 8/6 CNN
    So he said it on 7/3, went into denial, then came back and said it again. This guy is really good at spinning. So good heavens John. Are you denying what he said, as reported on CNN? Cheetah – Oh, it might be that John H was playing games hoping that no one noticed he was using a different source.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#36)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:17 PM EST
    JL - Here is what a former CIA covert agent said.
    A former CIA covert agent who supervised Mrs. Plame early in her career yesterday took issue with her identification as an "undercover agent," saying that she worked for more than five years at the agency's headquarters in Langley and that most of her neighbors and friends knew that she was a CIA employee. "She made no bones about the fact that she was an agency employee and her husband was a diplomat," Fred Rustmann, a covert agent from 1966 to 1990, told The Washington Times. "Her neighbors knew this, her friends knew this, his friends knew this. A lot of blame could be put on to central cover staff and the agency because they weren't minding the store here. ... The agency never changed her cover status." Mr. Rustmann, who spent 20 of his 24 years in the agency under "nonofficial cover" -- also known as a NOC, the same status as the wife of Mr. Wilson -- also said that she worked under extremely light cover. In addition, Mrs. Plame hadn't been out as an NOC since 1997, when she returned from her last assignment, married Mr. Wilson and had twins, USA Today reported yesterday. The distinction matters because a law that forbids disclosing the name of undercover CIA operatives applies to agents that had been on overseas assignment "within the last five years." "She was home for such a long time, she went to work every day at Langley, she was in an analytical type job, she was married to a high-profile diplomat with two kids," Mr. Rustmann said. "Most people who knew Valerie and her husband, I think, would have thought that she was an overt CIA employee."
    JL writes:
    Jim, your patriotism and love for your country is as fraudulent as your purported sagacity.
    My quote and link proves that Plame-Wilson was not a covert agent, so your claims are baseless. She was a CIA analyst who, probably at her husband’s request, got him sent on a trip, and wound up in the middle of a partisan fight when her husband decided to take a few pot shots at administration, and the war effort. She was as covert as the Washington Monument.

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#38)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:17 PM EST
    JL - The Repubs contention was linked. The comments had dates. Good grief, Charley JL! Fire! Aim! Ready!

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:17 PM EST
    PPJ, "Fire! Aim! Oh no, I shot myself in the foot!"

    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#40)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:17 PM EST
    cheetah - Try this out, which is from the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee:
    ..... after probing Wilson's story, Intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts publicly ripped the so-called "whistleblower" as a possible hoaxer and a fraud. In a July 9, 2004 press release that's still available on Roberts' official Web site, the Kansas Republican said: "The former Ambassador, either by design or through ignorance, gave the American people and, for that matter, the world a version of events that was inaccurate, unsubstantiated, and misleading. ... "Time and again, Joe Wilson told anyone who would listen that the President had lied to the American people, that the Vice President had lied, and that he had 'debunked' the claim that Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa. As discussed in the Niger section of the [Committee's] report, not only did he NOT 'debunk' the claim, he actually gave some intelligence analysts even more reason to believe that it may be true." "When asked how [Wilson] 'knew' that the Intelligence Community had rejected the possibility of a Niger-Iraq uranium deal, as he wrote in his book, he told Committee staff that his assertion may have involved 'a little literary flair.'" The Intel Committee chair concluded: "I believed very strongly that it was important for the Committee to conclude publicly that many of the statements made by Ambassador Wilson were not only incorrect, but had no basis in fact."


    Re: Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:01:17 PM EST
    PPJ, Well, first off, Pat Roberts is a right-wing mouthpiece for the oval office, in my opinion. So don't waste my time. It's precious. Secondly, PPJ says Fire! Aim! Oh no, I shot myself in the other foot!

    Bloomberg: Joseph Wilson's Accusations Hold Up | 41 comments (41 topical)