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Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marital Affair

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Wed Aug 10, 2005 at 05:03:56 AM EST
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How many Generals have you seen demoted over the torture abuse scandals at Abu Ghraib, Bagram, Camp Bucci or Guantanamo? What does it take for a reprimand? An extra-marital affair.

In a rare move, the Army relieved a four-star general of his command amid allegations that he had an extramarital affair with a civilian, Army officials said yesterday.

Update: Arianna has a lot to say about this.

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    Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marital Affair | 23 comments (23 topical)
    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#1)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    Know the Army only the little guy will do time, never,never follow orders, it can put you in prison. But I would Love to see Bush in prison with the government. maybe we should hand bush over to the new iraqi government which are nothing but new and up coming terroists to be. but that is would bush want? Free England.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#2)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    Doubt that it was the affair that did him in. From a 2004 Vetrans Day Speech in MO: "We go to war with rules of engagement, with rules of land warfare and with the Geneva Convention.... Shortly after coming back from Iraq, I visited our wounded Soldiers again at Walter Reed. For anyone who served in the Army more than a couple of years, any leader: to go visit wounded Soldiers in any of our hospitals, you come away totally inspired, and you’re committed to doing everything you can to make things right." Sounds like heresy, almost pinko.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    Sounds like someone who wants to go stand next to the mother of Army Specialist Casey Sheehan. A lot of legitmate military coming out into the light, most in reference to their Christian faith. Committed to FIGHTING BUSH and the illegal Iraq invasion. Imagine that. The real question about Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo is WHY have NONE of the private contractors who took part in those activities, which are the grossest sort of illegal human depravity, have been prosectuted in any way. What do they think they are, Ken Lay of Karl Rove? Counting money into duffel bags? Why bother to count.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#4)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    Lets contrast the double standard Bush and the Republicans have. If you are a White House aide, like Karl Rove, you are fired only if you have committed a crime. Not so for the rest of us. They have one set of values for folks like Rove and Delay, and another set for the rest of us.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#5)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    Et al – Sure glad this bunch wasn’t around in 1943. Eisenhower would have been replaced by Montgomery and we would still be planning the invasion of Europe. This makes little sense, if the conduct was with a civilian-nongovernment type person.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#6)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    assuming this to be true, the gen. was in clear violation of the UCMJ, regardless of what status the other party occupied. presumably, he was aware of this, and the potential ruinous affect it could/has had on his career. he also had to be aware of the fact that, with all the negative publicity surrounding what has seemed to be the minimal adverse consequences suffered by high ranking officers, with respect to abu ghraib, et al, the next guy was going to be crucified, regardless of the infraction, so the army could say that no one is above the rules. frankly, as obviously stupid as this was, you have to wonder whether he really should have been a four star to begin with. this clearly shows a weakness in judgment. i realize that sounds harsh, but you accept that when you accept those stars.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#7)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    Paul- I believe that private contractors in Iraq are by contract waive from any criminal potential wrongdoing. They have licence to do anything they feel necessary. They can also leave Iraq at any time without penalty. If only Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes had been caught corking pre teens at Abu Ghraib he would not be in the mess he is in now. May have gotten to be a five star general or named a General of the Armies of The US. Too bad he mentioned ACLU...., oh I meant Geneva Convention.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    Sounds like the classic "use this to get him" tactic. There are lots of people in lots of places in the Bush Administration that are having affairs, but you only use it against them if you want to. Those who you like or want to keep, your ignore their transgressions, those who are out of favor get nailed.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:09 PM EST
    Posted by Squeaky: "Paul- I believe that private contractors in Iraq are by contract waive from any criminal potential wrongdoing." Contract law has never allowed such exclusionary language. No, the offer of legal waiver for sickening crimes cannot stand in a court of law. In a functional democracy, Bushco's offer of a legal waiver would already be before the SCOTUS. And it would be shot down. Guantanamo 'contractors' are probably less well 'protected' by their membership in Bush's Rightwing Web of Sociopaths.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#12)
    by Jim Strain on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:09 PM EST
    Other commenters who suspect a possible political motive may indeed by correct, but the carefully chosen words of both the Army and the General's lawyer do not make it clear that the "offense" is a classic heterosexual extramarital affair. Inasmuch as the General was already in the process of a divorce, I'm skeptical that he would be relieved of command just for that -- UCMJ notwithstanding. This looks to me like something that would be reserved for a case that the base could applaud.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#13)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:09 PM EST
    yep, have to agree with jim strain on this, as long as we're all speculating anyway. you don't get to be a four star by being a wild & crazy guy, and the enormity of his being relieved of command demands special attention. my first reaction, upon reading the initial reports of this, was that he had to have committed a truly inspired act of stupidity, as opposed to the humdrum sexual harrasment or ordering/condoning illegal torture of detainees. i think jim may well be on to something here, it should be interesting to see how this pans out.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:09 PM EST
    The civilians are mentioned in the Taguba Report. Here is the recommendation: 13. (U) I find that there is sufficient credible information to warrant an Inquiry UP Procedure 15, AR 381-10, US Army Intelligence Activities, be conducted to determine the extent of culpability of MI personnel, assigned to the 205th MI Brigade and the Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center (JIDC) at Abu Ghraib (BCCF). Specifically, I suspect that COL Thomas M. Pappas, LTC Steve L. Jordan, Mr. Steven Stephanowicz, and Mr. John Israel were either directly or indirectly responsible for the abuses at Abu Ghraib (BCCF) and strongly recommend immediate disciplinary action as described in the preceding paragraphs as well as the initiation of a Procedure 15 Inquiry to determine the full extent of their culpability. ----------------------- Stephanowicz and Israel were the contractors that apparently fell through the cracks. More info on them can be found by following these links: Link 1 Link 2 Link 3 Link 4

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:09 PM EST
    The answer to your initial question is one.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#16)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:09 PM EST
    Paul- Here is a link that examines the question of Blackwater's liability as regarding pending fraud and wrongful death law suits. "The industry falls through the cracks at the national and international level," Singer said. "Private military contractors exist in the same legal vacuum as detainees at Guantanamo Bay" And this piece examines the lack of accountability and liability these military cantractors have. "The Coalition Provisional Authority has decreed that contractors and other foreign personnel will not be subject to Iraqi criminal processes. Yet, there's also no clear mandate for American jurisdiction."

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:09 PM EST
    From Tuesday's WaPo (not the "updated" Wed. version):
    A spokesman said Army officials could find no case of another four-star general being relieved of duty in modern times.
    Among the four-star general or flag officers to have been relieved of command in recent years was Navy Adm. Richard C. Macke, sacked as commander of Pacific Command in 1995 for remarks he made about the case of U.S. Marines accused of raping a 12-year-old Japanese girl, and Gen. Michael Dugan, who was fired as chief of staff of the Air Force in 1990 for comments to reporters about planning for the 1991 Gulf War.
    I don't think that he was fired for an affair - I think he was preparing to make a statement - written or otherwise - on his way out, and they are doing what they can to stop/discredit him before that happens.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Thanks, Squeak. Here's something for your oilcan: Parliament PM Impeachment Study

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Thanks Paul....Looks very juicy. Too bad there is no chance of that here, at least until (I pray) after the mid term elections.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    Here is more from (and there is more) : Madson "Byrnes was also associated with a group of officers who spent time at the U.S. Army War College at Carlisle Barracks in Pennsylvania. The Army War College has been a center of opposition to the war in Iraq and it is believed that Byrnes was recognized by the neo-cons as one of the unofficial leaders of a group of Army flag rank opponents of Bush's war in Iraq and potential military action against Iran."

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:11 PM EST
    Midterms will only change things if there is a legal vote. We haven't had one of those in five years. Though the situation will be much better, still most of the votes will be 'counted' by e-voting companies run by the rightwing, on secret software, which has been supposedly tested and certified (though it often has not, as in CA's 2003 illegal recall), again, by rightwing companies. If they let the people vote again, they are TOAST. So measure your hopeful expectations accordingly.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:11 PM EST
    Hope is all I have, otherwise I would have left the US after the last rigged election, as I promised I would, when Smirk the Chimperor won.

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Rather than hopeful longing toward the mythical midterms, ACT NOW to protect and restore your voting rights. It's a state-by-state effort, and your help is needed. That's the best form of hope -- WORK FOR CHANGE. Become an Eagle

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#24)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    I'm on it

    Re: Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marit (none / 0) (#25)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    revised UCMJ: You can insist everyone be an evangelical christian and harass those who aren't. You can commit/subborn rape. (Airforce Academy/Abu Ghraib either one still OK.) You can murder. You can torture. But have sex with a co-gender or outside your marriage, you're outta here!

    Abu Ghraib? No Problem Compared to Extra-Marital Affair | 23 comments (23 topical)