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Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released

By Jeralyn, Section Juvenile Offenders
Posted on Thu Aug 11, 2005 at 07:19:42 PM EST
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Some people in Jonesboro, Ark. don't like that Mitchell Johnson, who at 13, along with 11 year old Andrew Golden, shot and killed five people at his middle school, is being released from prison. Johnson is now 21.

Johnson was rightfully tried as a juvenile. 13 year old brains are not well-developed enough to be competent to stand trial. They can't understand the proceedings, meaningfully assist their lawyers in their defense, or understand the consquences of various decisions that need to be made. Our criminal justice system believes in rehabilitating our youthful offenders. That's why juveniles don't get a permanent criminal record.

In Arkansas, the maximum age a juvenile can be held is 18. Johnson was held till he is 21, because the state added some weapons charges.

Johnson wants to become a minister and enroll in college. He's spent 8 years in juvenile and adult prisons. It's time for him to leave.

Funding prevention, not prisons, is the way to reduce these kinds of crime.

Effective prevention efforts—in the form of mentoring initiatives, after-school programs, family support services, youth leadership development, etc.—reduce victimization, keep children involved in productive activities and save taxpayer money. CJJ calls for the balance of federal juvenile justice funding to go toward prevention—as well as rehabilitation, rather than interdiction and incarceration.

Early intervention, graduated sanctions and mental health treatment. Teaching kids tolerance and the politics of inclusion. Had they been available to Johnson and Golden, the Jonesboro tragedy might not have occurred.

Johnson has done his time. He has paid for his crime with his adolescence. He should be given another chance and supported, not ostracized, in the community and particularly in the media.

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    Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released | 45 comments (45 topical)
    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#1)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    While I don't take a position on youthful vs. adult offenders (I'm not knowledgeable enough), there does seem to be something fundamentally unfair about the younger kid spending two extra years in prison for the same crime just because he's two years younger. It seems like there needs to be a different method of meting out time, such as an X-year max for youthful offenders, rather than having a magic age.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#2)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    Mike Ditto- they've changed the law. Next time they'll both have adult LWOP. Feel better?

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#3)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    TL says: "Johnson was rightfully tried as a juvenile. 13 year old brains are not well-developed enough to be competent to stand trial. They can't understand the proceedings, meaningfully assist their lawyers in their defense, or understand the consquences of various decisions that need to be made. Our criminal justice system believes in rehabilitating our youthful offenders. That's why juveniles don't get a permanent criminal record." I don't think you know any actual 13 year olds. My daughter is nearly 12, and her friends are all 11 and 12. Guess what? They all know right from wrong, and I rather suspect that this kid did as well. You do the world no favors by assuming that a 13 year old who killed 5 people was somehow not fully responsible.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#4)
    by Sailor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    [snark] JR, if you think your daughter is telling you the truth or knows 'right from wrong' as you understand it, I pity your next few years.[/snark] As a scientific fact, teen's brains are not formed as much or in the same way as adults. ( If anyone besides JR is curious, I'll be happy to provide links, including hiRes fMRI scans.) Christians believe in redemption. It was a horrible crime. It might be compounding that crime not to give him a chance.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#5)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    I can’t really pinpoint the age I developed empathy, but I’m certain I was before grammar school. The child who can kill at 11 or 13 is an aberration, and certainly fundamentally damaged. For the sake of the folks who live in their new communities I hope the ~10 years in detention miraculously repaired the deficit.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    JR - the medical and psychological research is against you. We're talking about incompetency not insanity. The test for insanity is knowing right from wrong. The test for competency is whether the person understands the nature of the charges, the possible consequences, can assist his or her lawyer in their defense, and can make meaningful decisions, like whether to accept a plea bargain or testify. And yes, I've known many 13 year olds. I was one once, my son was once 13, as were all his friends, and I've had clients who were 13. You are wrong on this one.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    I think that TL just volunteered to host this young man while he attends school at CU-Denver. I mean, certainly this isn't a cast of NIMBY. -C PS - Sailor, I think we all ran the shades between fibbing and lying with out parents during the teenage years. But that doesn't mean we didn't know right from wrong, especially in the big stuff.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#8)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    If thirteen year olds are mature enough to take responsibility as adults for bad deeds, they are mature enough to take resposibility as adults for .. oh, say.. driving, drinking, sex, marriage, entering the military etc. Their brains are physically diferent from adults. For that matter, so are the brains of 17 year olds. They are not adults. Some 13-year olds are more mature than others, sure, but they aren't exactly ready to hold down a job and live on their own.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#9)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    TL, I must disagree with you on this one.
    The test for competency is whether the person understands the nature of the charges, the possible consequences, can assist his or her lawyer in their defense, and can make meaningful decisions, like whether to accept a plea bargain or testify.
    I dont fully understand the nature of many of the charges in a courtroom and I surely dont know enough to assist my lawyer in my defense. And I'm a grown ass man. But I do know that if you go to school and shoot up a bunch of classmates, you go to prison for a long time and maybe even get the death penalty. This kid knew that, too. He may not have known the details or as much as the average grown person, but he knew that you dont just go to school and shoot everyone. I have two major problems with these kids getting out of prison (or where ever they are) so early. 1. I'm all about giving second chances to nonviolent criminals, but this kid committed MASS MURDER. He's talking about going to college when he gets out. I dont know about you, but I'm not sure I would want my kids to wind up being this kid's roommate his freshman year. I realize he'll probably have a tough time getting into college, but I dont want to live next to the kid either. And I dont imagine you would either. 2. What message are we sending that next kid that's thinking about shooting up his school? That you can do it and be out in 7 years? That there are loopholes in the system? That the human life is worth 7 years in some cases? That mass murder is not as bad as drug possession? By the age of 13, kids are not completely stupid. They know that this sort of thing is unacceptable. But by letting this kid out after such a short time, I fear that we are sending them a bad message.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#10)
    by John Mann on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    But I do know that if you go to school and shoot up a bunch of classmates, you go to prison for a long time and maybe even get the death penalty.
    Apparently you don't know the difference between right and wrong, and you're a "grown ass man". Only someone with serious psychological problems would suggest that it's ok for children to be murdered by the State.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#11)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    Only someone with serious psychological problems would suggest that it's ok for children to be murdered by the State.
    I'm sorry John, I must have missed the part where I said the death penalty was ok. Whether I agree with them or not, those are the rules. My point was that the kid knew what he was doing and knew enough about the consequences to not do it. But I'll go further than that to say that he knew better than to go shoot up the school consequences be damned.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#12)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    oops...looks like I over quoted on that last post. My bad.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#13)
    by John Mann on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    Whether I agree with them or not, those are the rules.
    That rationale is commonly used to justify the unjustifiable, but it's either right for the State to execute people or it isn't. Which is it? Should the 11-year-old have also been subject to the death penalty?
    My point was that the kid knew what he was doing and knew enough about the consequences to not do it. But I'll go further than that to say that he knew better than to go shoot up the school consequences be damned.
    How do you know this?

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#14)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    i was tempted to start out with something snarky. to my credit (i think), i've resisted. there is a fallacy inherent in the assertion that pretty much all 12, 13, 14 year-olds know the difference between right and wrong, or should, and as a result, all children committing especially heinous crimes should be treated as adults. that fallacy is equating the knowledge of right and wrong with a mature, adult perspective or understanding of the true consequences of your actions. the two are not mutually inclusive, regardless of what politicians would have us believe to the contrary. i include prosecutors in the politician class, as most are elected officials. were this not the case, children under 18 could sign valid, binding contracts on their own. they could sashay into a bar and hoist a few. buying shares of stock in their favorite video game manufacturer would be next on the list of things to do after school. perhaps enlisting in the army between 8th and 9th grade, for a great summer camp experience. minors are allowed to do none of these, for good reason. society (us) have determined that children are not mature enough to fully appreciate the potential consequences of these acts, to themselves or others. with only rare exception, minors are required to have either parents, or a state appointed guardian, to look out for their interests. we do this because we know children, left to their own devices, will do stupid things, harmful to themselves and others. it's their job. to then turn around and say, for specific purposes only, that these same minors are fully capable of understanding the true nature of their acts, strikes me as the rankest sort of hypocracy. not that that ever stopped a politician scamming for votes. but then, few things do. as a parent of a 12 and 15 year-old, i can guarantee they know the difference between right and wrong: they've been taught so since day one. so do the majority of their friends and classmates. i can also guarantee, without hesitation, that neither they, nor their friends and classmates, completely grasps the full consequences of their actions, or inaction. that is what parents/guardians are for, as well as experience. children, unlike (presumably) adults, tend not to think beyond the next moment. expecting them to is kind of unrealistic.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#15)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    cpinva, Excellent points all, do you feel the same way about parental consent?

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#16)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    I think that you all are overlooking the fact that this kid committed a murder. To argue that kids ages 12-15 do not understand that MURDER is wrong and can cary some serious consequences is absolutely insulting their intelligence. I agree that many may not understand the scope of their consequences, but they know that it will not be good. If they dont know that by their junior high years, we need to start teaching them. As for the death penalty issue, I dont know if I agree with it even for adults. There are good sides to both arguments, but I dont think it's right even for youngsters, because at that age kids are volitile, changing almost every day, and the death penalty may not mean anything one day when they're feeling down b/c sometimes their emotional. But, that's not to say that they should be let out after only 7 years either.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#17)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    (Please exuse if the comments of the last post dont really flow that well...I was distracted in the middle of my train of thought)

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    et al.... Their brains are physically diferent from adults. Maybe so...but a 13 year old still knows that killing is wrong! Certainly the death penalty shouldn't apply here.... however slapping their hands and turning them lose isn't the answer either.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#19)
    by Quaker in a Basement on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    Certainly the death penalty shouldn't apply here.... however slapping their hands and turning them lose isn't the answer either.
    Well, being locked up for eight years isn't exactly a slap on the hands, is it? Those eight years were the years spanning from seventh grade to the beginning of the senior year of college in an uninterrupted normal life. What did you have in mind?

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#20)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    What did you have in mind?
    This kid was a party in the murder of 4 people and the attempted murder of no telling how many more. Not spur of the moment...PRE MEDITATED MURDER. An adult would have gotten life in prison if not for that. I realize that the penalty should not be as stiff as for an adult, but 7 years is hardly long enough. Four of those were most likely spent in jouvie. I'm thinking this kid needed 10 years after he turned 18. Perhaps 1 year of imprisonment for every year that he had to learn that we dont just show up at school and murder people. So then that would be 14 years of being locked up. 4 in jouvie and 10 in prison. Seems like that would give kids a reason to start learning that cold blooded murder is unacceptable.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#21)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    I, not suprisingly I'm sure, fall in on the side of those who feel that kids of this age should well know that murder is really, really wrong and that if you do murder, really, really bad things will happen to you. Note that I said "should." Maybe these kids really didn't know that their actions were wrong. Possible, I guess. Which makes me wonder if someone doesn't know by that age that murder is really, really, wrong, perhaps they are incapable of ever understanding it. Perhaps they should stay behind bars for the rest of their lives. Reagardless, the kid's out and that's not going to change. So I hope he fulfills his stated goals and becomes one of those incredible success stories we love to hear about of people triumphing over their past.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#22)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    Possible, I guess. Which makes me wonder if someone doesn't know by that age that murder is really, really, wrong, perhaps they are incapable of ever understanding it. Perhaps they should stay behind bars for the rest of their lives.
    That's a really good point sarc. As I mentioned earlier on this thread, he's still at an age where most people are trying to figure out the person that they are and will be. I dont think I would want his influence around our young adults in society. Perhaps he has been rehabilitated, I'm not sure if I buy that, but...I'm not sure we should take the chance of him being out there influencing our young adults and standing as a model for our kids as someone who committed a mass murder and only served 7 years.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#23)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Pre-teen brains are DIFFERENT That means, they are not grown up, not mature, not adult, they are still growing, they don't have the same equipment adults do, they can't THINK the same way adults do. They can't CONTROL IMPULSES as well. They are BIOLOGICALY INCAPABLE of controlling their impulses as well as adults. This is not a moral malfunction, its a stage of development. A *normal* stage of development. If you didn't and your preteens and teens don't do anything monumentaly stupid during those dangerous years, then praise your deity (or lack thereof) of choice. If you can't expect a preteen to be mature about sex, driving, contracts, money, drinking, etc then how can you expect him/her to pay for crimes as if s/he WERE mature enough? http://www.wccf.org/pdf/dahl.pdf http://www.abanet.org/crimjust/juvjus/Adolescence.pdf http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/teenbrain.cfm http://www.nyas.org/annals/detail.asp?annalID=786 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/work/adolescent.html http://www.duke.edu/~amwhite/Adolescence/adolescent3.html http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1424747.htm http://www.abanet.org/crimjust/juvjus/simmons/ama.pdf And I haven't even hit PubMed yet.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Jen.... your preteens and teens don't do anything monumentaly stupid during those dangerous years, then praise your deity Monumentally stupid? As an ex teen (and currently the father of two) I can attest do doing (and hearing about) very stupid things.... however...none of them ever included murder! That's more than being monumentally stupid! Indeed, millions of teens grow up yearly without killing anyone...much less multiple people. When are the libs of this country going to hold people (besides the current administration) accountable for their actions?

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#25)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Jen writes:
    They can't CONTROL IMPULSES as well. They are BIOLOGICALY INCAPABLE of controlling their impulses as well as adults.
    Yeah...that's great...good job on the links. But it doesnt apply here. This was no impulse. They brought guns to school, which is a crime in itself. They rang fire alarms when there was no fire and started picking of students and faculty as they filed out of the building. That's premeditated murder. They thought about this. Nobody expects them to be mature about sex, money, contracts, drugs, driving, alcohol, petty crimes or a mixture of any of the above. However, they are accountable for murder. Agreed, perhaps less so than an adult, but not to the extent that they only stay in custody of the state for 7 years and then become completely free. No record. Free as you and me. After premeditated mass murder. I mean it's not like he beat up little Johnny and stole his lunch money. He killed 4 people. In school. Where everyone sends their kids assuming their relative safety.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#26)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Accountable? He was held accountable, did you miss that part? He went to juvinile detention. He has been there since he was 13. He went before the justice system and was sentenced. Lawyers, judges, the whole nine yards. You just didn't agree with the sentence. When are conservatives going to stop mistaking revenge for justice?

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#27)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    peacrevol, Semantics. Not impulse control as in split second decision. Teens have imature behavior control equipment.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    For those arguing the sub-point of him not spending enough time in jail, consider this: The huge advances mentally, socially and physically that happen between 13 and 21. I would argue the changes _most_ mentally recognized by the individual. I would rather spend age 40-80 in prison than 13 to 21. (I'm not making any argument about the knowing of right and wrong or severity of the crime.)

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#29)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Teens have imature behavior control equipment.
    But I still dont see how that's an excuse to let them off completely after only 7 years. It's not even on their record and its MASS MURDER. Immature behavior control equipment might cause you to start a fight or throw paper at the teacher or drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes or do something that's basically dumb. We cant send our kids the message that they can go shoot up their schools and get the same sentence as they would get if they got caught dealing drugs at school.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#30)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Peacrevol, Do you honestly believe everyone will forget? I mean, c'mon. This will follow him all the days of his life. As it should. 'Record' or no.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#31)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Right...but what's the point in having a record if mass murderers dont have one. Juvenile detention is hardly a punishment.
    When are conservatives going to stop mistaking revenge for justice?
    I'll just ignore the fact that you're assuming that I'm a winger and focus on the topic. Revenge has nothing to do with it. I'm not trying to say we need to get back at this kid. I'm trying to say that five years in juvie and three in prison is a slap on the wrist for mass murder, at any age. The loophole they found, from what I understand would not allow him to be held a day after his 18th birthday, but he was being held for some other drummed up something or other to keep him in jail - a whole other topic in itself i suppose. The loophole that he got through has since been closed from what I have gathered. That suggests to me that the court also feels that he should have gotten a much greater sentence.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#32)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Oh...scuse me...kinda went off on a tangent there and didnt elaborate on the revenge thing...sorry It's not reveng. It's deterring that next kid from going to school and killing my kid. It's letting him know that murder is extremely serious.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#33)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    and by
    reveng
    I mean revenge. Cant spell.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#34)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    What is 'spell'? Thats just it. Kids wont be deterred because they don't THINK like that. Thats the whole point of these studies. They do dangerous and stupid things because they think the consequences won't happen to THEM.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#35)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Oh, and that whole revenge question was aimed at BB who asked about liberals.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#36)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Oh, and that whole revenge question was aimed at BB who asked about liberals.
    Oh...my bad :)
    What is 'spell'?
    By spell, I mean, arranging letters of the alphabet into words...I'm not very good at that. :)
    Thats just it. Kids wont be deterred because they don't THINK like that. Thats the whole point of these studies. They do dangerous and stupid things because they think the consequences won't happen to THEM.
    Then why lock them up at all? To rehabilitate them? Riiiiight. I think that most people, adults and children, have the mentality that consequences wont happen to them. That's why people do crime it the first place - b/c they think they wont get caught. Either that or their crime is worth the risk - but most criminals who are smart enough to weight thier risk vs. reward are probably good enough to get away with it. (excuse the tangent - ADHD) Ok...how bout this...do you think the punishment fits the crime in this case?

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    Seems like a pretty meaningless debate. Perhaps I'm over-simplifying, but it can be boiled down to three choices. 1. Get to the root cause of why the child committed such a horrific offense, and work to rehabilitate/treat/release them as quickly as possible. 2. Try as an adult, and apply the maximum sentance, institutionalize the child for life. 3. View the child as somehow flawed and execute immediately. When viewed like this it seems clear to me that the only option is # 1.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#38)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:15 PM EST
    1. Get to the root cause of why the child committed such a horrific offense, and work to rehabilitate/treat/release them as quickly as possible. 2. Try as an adult, and apply the maximum sentance, institutionalize the child for life. 3. View the child as somehow flawed and execute immediately.
    I dont think anyone would say that #3 is even an option. #2 is also taking it a bit too far. #1 is not what they did. I just have a hard time trusting that a mass murderer is rehabilitated after just 7-8 years. There is middle ground between #1 and #2 and I think that's the issue here.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#39)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:15 PM EST
    peacrevol - you know, I don't believe any punishment can fit that crime. Adult or no. There can be no justice in a case like this. All we can do is try to somehow minimize damage.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#40)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:15 PM EST
    There can be no justice in a case like this. All we can do is try to somehow minimize damage.
    Good way to put it.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:15 PM EST
    agreed! Nicely put. "I just have a hard time trusting that a mass murderer is rehabilitated after just 7-8 years." - peacrevol Only time will tell.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#42)
    by Richard Aubrey on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:15 PM EST
    Is there anything that says this kid is fixed? Or is he just--out? Is being rehabbed here relevant? I presume somebody wondered about that, but apparently it does not apply. Time's up, this mass murderer is out without the slightest interest in whether whatever caused him to be the one in ten million (at least that few thirteen-year-old mass murderers) has been changed? Or do we have a murderer on our hands who's out among us? He wants to be a minister? Scrushy got all religious when he got indicted. Clinton carried a large-print edition (or at least a very large edition) of The Bible to church and held it where the cameras could see it. Ditto DeLorean. This kid knows how to say what the kid-fixing-people desperately want him to say. Does he mean it? No way of knowing. The problem with calling for rehabilitation is two-fold. First, it's an excuse for the shortestpenaltypossible people who will claim that everybody is fixed, regardless of actual information to that effect. It's crap, in other words. The other is that, if you want to pretend to be sincere about it, you will have to put up with guys who don't get rehabbed and they have to stay in prison. That isn't the libs' intent. Rehab is just a way of trying to fool the rest of us into letting dangerous people go for some reason only libs think is fun. Rehab is chancy, hard to tell from gaming the system by guys who literally have nothing to do for years but think about gaming. It might work, but you can't tell if it works except by watching and seeing if somebody reoffends. There is no way of knowing in advance. If you think murderers should be out in a few years, have the nonesty to say so. It's not as if nobody has guessed what you think.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:15 PM EST
    RA, See my earlier post. Safe to assume that you would stick w/ option # 3?

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#44)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:15 PM EST
    Richard, you're right on about the whole not sure if he's rehabed part. And you are right when you say that rehabilitation does not apply here. He had a max sentence...rehabbed or not. That's rediculous. I disagree with you that rehabilitation is immeasurable. These head shrinkers these days can get in your head and write down what you're going to think before you think it. I dont see why we cant have a panel of these freakin dudes to give us some degree of estimation as to whether or not criminals are rehabbed.

    Re: Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:02:16 PM EST
    Listen, I hate capital punishment just as much as anyone. I cheered and roared when executing juveniles was outlawed by the SC. I think restraint has to be met in the way we deal with criminals, especially juveniles. But releasing a murderer, after 8 years, is wrong, not to mention stupid, I don't care how old he is (and don't you DARE call me a conservative! ha ha) We can provide him with all the comforts and provisions of a modern prison. put him in minimum security unless the doctors say he'll escape. Allow him to pursue an education behind bars - God knows there is no place more in need of a good minister than the prisons. But please please PLEASE don't let him near my children unsupervised! ARE YOU ALL CRAZY? This guy KILLED PEOPLE. He waltzed into his school and took out his fellow students - in middle school! This is not a kid acting out - this is a deranged killer. -Only time will tell.-, BB? Here's how that theory works - if, in the next ten years, he kills more kids, or even people his own age, then its obvious he needs a little bit more therapy. If he doesn't, then we'll never really know if whatever snapped in this kid's head will snap again when he's fifty. That's the point of LIFE in PRISON. I don't think there's a measurable way - and psychologists would agree, by the way - to determine whether or not this guy is "rehabilitated." Sorry - Can't bend on this one - rehabilitate and release, get a job and learn your lesson and make something of yourself as a contributing member of society is for thieves and drug dealers. Mass murderers, rapists, child-molesting killers - need to be rehabilitated, because they deserve a chance and a clean soul, but their right to swing their fist ends at my nose, and my girlfriend's nose, and everyone else in this great land - aka - they don't get to do so by walking free after less than ten years. His release is a risk to the safety and security of everyone you know - he is a murderer - so stop talking about him like he's a kid that threw paper airplanes in class and snuck out back to smoke - he brought a gun to school and killed his fellow students (who were also juveniles, by the way - we don't seem to discuss THAT fact). Once again, I'm as liberal as they come, but we have to be realistic here, as well.

    Jonesboro School Shooter to be Released | 45 comments (45 topical)