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Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown?

By TChris, Section Huricanes Katrina and Rita
Posted on Thu Sep 29, 2005 at 08:28:20 AM EST
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by TChris

Human Rights Watch reports that the sheriff's department in New Orleans left hundreds of inmates locked in a city jail as flood waters began to rise.

Inmates in Templeman III, one of several buildings in the Orleans Parish Prison compound, reported that as of Monday, August 29, there were no correctional officers in the building, which held more than 600 inmates. These inmates, including some who were locked in ground-floor cells, were not evacuated until Thursday, September 1, four days after flood waters in the jail had reached chest-level.

More than 500 inmates are missing. Were any of them left to drown?

According to officers who worked at two of the jail buildings, Templeman 1 and 2, they began to evacuate prisoners from those buildings on Tuesday, August 30, when the floodwaters reached chest level inside. ... But at Templeman III, which housed about 600 inmates, there was no prison staff to help the prisoners. Inmates interviewed by Human Rights Watch varied about when they last remember seeing guards at the facility, but they all insisted that there were no correctional officers in the facility on Monday, August 29.

Some inmates from Templeman III have said they saw bodies floating in the floodwaters as they were evacuated from the prison. A number of inmates told Human Rights Watch that they were not able to get everyone out from their cells.

A spokeswoman for the sheriff’s department insists that “nobody drowned, nobody was left behind.” A corrections officer, complaining of "complete chaos," told HRW: “Ain't no tellin’ what happened to those people.” As this editorial argues, whether any deaths occurred must be investigated.

Why did this happen?

Several corrections officers told Human Rights Watch there was no evacuation plan for the prison, even though the facility had been evacuated during floods in the 1990s.

Even if no inmate died, the failure to have an evacuation plan in place was shockingly negligent. As the custodian of captive inmates, the sheriff's department had a constitutional obligation to protect them from harm. Their neglect of those in their care is an outrage that shouldn't be forgotten in the muddle of tragic stories that continue to come to light.

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    Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? | 26 comments (26 topical)
    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    That's really freakin' cold and cowardly of the guards.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#2)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    I saw a rather heartwarming story about an inmate in Plaquemines Parish who literally floated out of jail, and then went on to save the lives of several elderly people from their flooded homes as well as some people trapped in an elementary school gymnasium. He was in jail for writing bad checks, if I remember correctly. His sentence should be commuted. But the Sheriff they interviewed referred to the guy as a "fugitive," so I'm guessing that won't happen any time soon. Blanco should pardon the guy.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Kitt on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    But the Sheriff they interviewed referred to the guy as a "fugitive, Uh, a fugitive would've been found in Wyoming not in the very parish in whose jail he was imprisoned. I saw the same story. Early on, I saw a story where NO police had prisoners sitting on I-10 (I think it was).

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#4)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    Anybody found any bodies?

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#5)
    by TChris on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    The story makes clear that deaths are unconfirmed. Are you suggesting that it's fine to leave inmates standing in chest deep water for four days?

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#6)
    by SeeEmDee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    Given their being in city jail rather than a penitentiary, it was largely petty crimes that brought them there. Hardly rating what amounts to capital punishment to leave them to possibly die like that. Perhaps someone thought he'd have a chance to test his theories in Social Darwinism, hmmm? Let the perps drown like rats, save the city some money needed for the reconstruction, maybe? After all, they were 'just perps', right? Nothing but criminals, hey? This is disgusting.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    And if this story is confirmed, what will be the apologetic response from charley? A) They could have picked the locks, they are criminals after all. OR B) They are prisoners, they had it coming.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimcee on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    I would assume that if a bunch of accused criminals were really left to drown in thier cells we would have heard about it by now. Because that would be a great story...heck even FOX would have run with it, if it were true. This site has become more disfunctional in the last few months and that makes me sad as I come here more for the debate than for the shout-down that it has become. I am sure that there are alot of drowned people in the NO jail but it is being all hushed up.(sarcasism alert). Starting bad rumours is not a good site builder, TChris. Just saying......

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    jc-Inmates that made out alive it said that they were left with water up to their chests and had to kick the doors down to escape. All the guards had left, left with the prisoners locked in their cells. It is not a rumor it is a fact. Amy Goodman asks an inmate what happened
    DAN BRIGHT: We were strictly abandoned. They just left us. When we realized what was going on, it was too late. It was total chaos. The water was up to our chest. You had guys laying in the water trying to climb to the top of their bunks. You had older guys who didn't have any medicine who we were trying to help. And the way we got out was we had to kick the cell door for maybe like an hour or two. And the cell doors, they sits on this hinge. You have to kick it off the hinge. And when you kicked it off the hinge you have to slide out the door.  And Templeman III is -- I'm trying to explain it as best I could. It's two levels. You had an upper level and bottom level. The guys on the bottom level was totally stuck in this water. Lights was out. So we had to get out on the top level and come down and help those guys. And the police, they had left. AMY GOODMAN: Wait a second. You're saying that the police, the guards, were gone? DAN BRIGHT: The guard was gone. AMY GOODMAN: There was only the prisoners? DAN BRIGHT: There was only -- that's us. AMY GOODMAN: And you were locked in. DAN BRIGHT: Right. Correct. AMY GOODMAN: And so how did you escape? DAN BRIGHT: Well, we had to kick --
    vinifera at dkos

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    Chaz: If "babbling without proof" was a prerequisite to proving compassion, you would have turned into Jesus a long time ago.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    No wonder the Chief resigned.... He's probably in another counrty by now. No wait...it's all Bush's fault anyway.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    Charley the neo-maxi-zoom-dweebie wrote:
    Lab-perhaps you should devote your time to finding those raped babies and hundreds of dead from the Superdome. or do you think that actually occurred because you read it on Kos two weeks ago and decided Bush was at fault, damn the facts?
    I have absolutely no idea of what the hell you are talking about. And I suspect strongly, that you don't either.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#11)
    by jen on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    Charley They were left. To drown or escape. Either way, there is no excuse. Even if no one died as a result. Abandoning your post is wrong. Not having a plan is wrong. It is unethical and immoral conduct on the part of the prison staff.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    No wait...it's all Bush's fault anyway.
    That's funny, that is the first mention of his name on this board. And if you check the presidential pardon thread, I actually praised him! The only thing more foolish than blaming Bush for everything is holding him accountable for nothing.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    A first person account from a prisoner is linked here. Provide other links and verified reports in the comments at that post.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    Trying to block the media from reporting stories like this didn't work. We need an independent review of this and other stories to get to the facts. DEMAND INQUESTS, the thing that the Leninist Bushies hate the most. TL: Charley has posted four times to this thread in 17 total comments. That's 25 percent of the thread, and his posts are all trolls without any useful content.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:30 PM EST
    Et al - Personal insults aside, where are the bodies? Is this like the murders and rapes that didn't happen? PIL - You talking about useful information is like ..... Heck, I'm speechless.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:30 PM EST
    As much as I hate to agree w/ Charley & Jimaka, doesn't it make a whole lotta sense to withhold judgment until the bodies (if any) can be located? And wouldn't those bodies most likely be in the cells? Otherwise, the alternative is blood-curdling.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:30 PM EST
    Now if this is true, and it certainly sounds plausible, the people who left the live bodies locked up to die would not hesitate to float the bodies into the mass pool of unidentified dead. Most, if not all of the records have been destroyed. No way to trace bodies to people except by word of mouth.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:31 PM EST
    I take Dan Bright at his word.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:32 PM EST
    Actually, the trolls have a lot of work ahead to try to slow down this story. • Evidence? Case workers have interviews MANY THOUSANDS of prisoners in the last week, and the consistency of their stories is shocking. • Cause? The jail guards were themselves abandoned by government, and some jail guards were even stranded on a bridge and not rescued. • Prisoners, many of whom had committed NO crime (but merely violated some petty city ordinance), were left without potable water or food, for days. • When (and if) they escaped, they were held en masse on a bridge, for days, without water or food, and without any sanitation. • Their guards had water and food, but didn't share it. This event will be a MAJOR lawsuit cause for years to come. Jim, BB, charley: La-la-la-la-la, meet Louisiana.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:33 PM EST
    char-thousands of (live) prisoners were interviewed. If they were dead, even a dummy would not waste his time on them, because dead men, conveniently, don't talk.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#23)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:33 PM EST
    Pathetic, Sqeaky, even for you.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#24)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:33 PM EST
    sarc-you are right. why bother responding to trolls like charley? Just a bit of stale bait.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:33 PM EST
    Charley, you're not gorillas, you're PIGS. You'll eat anything.

    Re: Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:36 PM EST
    The abuse of NOLA Prisoners is greater that we thought:
    Lawyers for inmates in Louisiana say that prison guards have abused some of the nearly 8,000 prisoners who were evacuated from flooded jails in the New Orleans area after Hurricane Katrina.
    Two sides to the story:
    Lawyers said that interviews with the 450 prisoners in Jena produced complaints that guards had been beating them, stripping them naked and hitting them with belts, shaving their heads, threatening them with dogs, shocking them with stun guns and assaulting them after they attempted to report the abuse.
    Thomas Antenena a spokesman for the guards says:
    "All the reports have been positive," Mr. Antenen said. "I seriously doubt any of our personnel would be involved in that type of behavior."
    Who is one to believe? NYT via War and Peace

    Were New Orleans Inmates Left to Drown? | 26 comments (26 topical)