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Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Wed Oct 05, 2005 at 09:57:20 AM EST
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This is an incredibly engrossing and important article from Der Spiegel on Abu Ghraib. It's very long, so you might want to bookmark it or print it out for when you have time to read the whole thing. By putting the story in the personal context of Jamal Davis, the prison guard, and Hajj Ali, a prisoner and Iraqi community leader, and showing how both of their worlds were destroyed, it brings the horror of what U.S. soldiers did there into much sharper focus.

There are new details of the pervasive sadism of the U.S. prison guards and the higher-ups who endorsed it.

Hajj Ali believes he is the one in this picture.

"How can it be," he asks, "that the victims are not being called as witnesses, that no one wants to hear their version of the story? How can it be that someone like Davis gets only half a year in prison?" "Davis and the others," he says, "killed our souls."

In May 2004, Hajj Ali decided to take advantage of his popularity. He founded an organization and called it the "Association of the Victims of American Occupation Prisons." The organization quickly mushroomed into 40,000 members -- victims of torture, innocent suspects who were quickly released -- and its headquarters are at Hajj Ali's guesthouse.

There they collect the victims' horrible stories and assemble them into dossiers intended to provide an overview of the situation in the prisons. They take the information to newspapers, and they have exhibited the photos in Baghdad. But they are not interested in enlightenment. They want justice.

The organization has brought a lawsuit in an American civil court against the private contracting firms that were responsible for the interrogations at Abu Ghraib, companies like Titan and CACI, which it alleges played a key role in the torture. Hajj Ali hopes that they will be compensated, that the victims will receive monetary awards, something at least to make up for some of their suffering. This is his way of dealing with these things; he feels the need to do something to make peace with his memories.

This is the website the Iraqis go to to view the images of torture. I didn't have the stomach to click through them.

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    • Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed | 21 comments (21 topical)
    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#1)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:41 PM EST
    The Miami Hearld ran an op piece (Fixing responsibility for Abu Ghraib abuse) on Monday, Oct. 03/05 that pretty much sums up any intelligent view of this:
    It doesn't take a genius to figure out that in an organization as rigidly controlled as the military, commanders bear some degree of responsibility for the actions of troops under their command. The top officers are responsible for the training, or lack thereof, supervision, discipline and guidance of troops under their command. ... Is anyone in Congress listening?
    It comes down to chain of command, chain of authority, and chain of responsibility. That chain ends with the CinC.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#2)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    "...how you treat the least of these..." Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. We hold absolute power over the prisoners in Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and elsewheres we know nothing about.... yada, yada, yada Yeah, but they're all bad. ...right? Right? Bush said, "You're either with us or with the terrorists." Sorry, George. I'm with the terrorists on this one.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    "killed our souls."
    Ain't that the truth. After seeing and hearing how these detainees are treated, I've come to the conclusion it would be more humane to shoot them in the back of the head as opposed to the torture and the indefinite detention that is the status quo. When I think of fates worse than death, electrodes on my gonads and indefinite detention come to mind. If it were me, I'd choose a bullet.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#4)
    by Andreas on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    One needs to stress again and again that the Democratic Party supported and supports the war and the occupation.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    Posted by Andreas at October 5, 2005 12:30 PM One needs to stress again and again that the Democratic Party supported and supports the war and the occupation. Does that, in your mind, excuse this?:
    When he stands up on the box again, Hajj Ali wishes, for the first time in his life, that he were dead. He prays to Allah for redemption, begs Allah to make them turn up the electricity, turn it up to give him one last, effective jolt of electricity.
    command, chain of authority, and chain of responsibility. That chain ends with the CinC. And that is who the electricty needs to be turned up on.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    Bush said, "You're either with us or with the terrorists."
    We've all seen the evidence of the treatment of detainees, is that not terrorism? I say yes, and that means George is with the terrorists. He sure ain't with us.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#7)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    Ars-You must have a heart of coal to make a remark like this after reading the Speigel article:
    One needs to stress again and again that the Democratic Party supported and supports the war and the occupation.
    You are disgusting.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#8)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    Nah, Squeak, Andreas is merely pointing out the unfortunate truth. The Dems offered little resistance to this Iraq fiasco. As the "opposition" party they offered little in the way of bold or courageous opposition. They mostly caved. Almost entirely.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    George W. Bush - 6 November, 2003
    "...the United States must remain focused on the region 'for decades'." "Our commitment to democracy is being tested in the Middle East" "The good and capable people of the Middle East all deserve responsible leadership" "For too long, many people in that region have been victims and subjects." "Iraq and Syria: Dictators 'left a legacy of torture, oppression, misery, and ruin'"
    Excuse me? George? Hello....?

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    edger - You didn't answer the last time, and you won't this time. But I will try again. I note that the abuse at Abu Ghraib was terrible. I also note that the army has investigated, prosecuted and punished. To keep grinding on it merely proves that to the Left, everything is politics. Now. What would you do about the ME? Do you have a solution you would like to bring forth? I note that there is an open thread available for your words of wisdom.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    KDOG.... After seeing and hearing you would take a bullet to the head?? I have seen the pictures posted on the net and on TV. I have read the stories... I am not excusing what these soldiers did, but I do feel that it's gone way overboard. The military can point out one specific unit that did this. I also believe that the total number of prisoners that were abused has been exagurated. The soldiers that did this are being punished for what they did. Is it enough? Maybe not, but show me an American that has true faith in our judicial system. Now they want to sue and receive monetary awards? This will help with the pain and suffering? Boy these Iraqis are getting more and more like Americans every day! Still want that bullet?

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#12)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    Dad- your attempt to co-opt this post with your irrelevant deflection is equally cold hearted. You are most likely laughing at the pictures along with the guards. Funny huh? What a hoot. Changing the subject is the strategy de jour, RNC talking points all the way. This article is about torture and ruined lives. Too weepy for you well go to NTFU for some laughs. To change the subject as to who supported the war is a non-sequitur and heartless to boot. Save your snark for posts as to who got us into the war, it is not appropriate here.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    MWF...I was just making a general observation...it would be more humane to give someone a quick painless death than to lock them up indefinitely with no legal recourse and subject them to various forms of torture. Just my opinion. You may prefer to live at any cost...not me.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#14)
    by Al on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    PPJ, surely it has not escaped your sharp mind that the only ones that have been prosecuted are the poor sods who let themselves be photographed. We want Rumsfeld. As for everything being politics ... you spew your crap out of academic interest?

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM EST
    kdog- I understand your point, but how is what these soldiers did any different that what was going on when Iraq was under the reign of Sadaam? Again I am not excusing what they did, becuase it was wrong.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#16)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:43 PM EST
    Deflection noted Jim:
    What would you do about the ME? Do you have a solution you would like to bring forth? I note that there is an open thread available for your words of wisdom.
    If you haven't been able to answer your question for yourself by now, Jim, by reading all of my posts, you might try re-reading them. I've made it, I think, very clear, that as I've attempted to in all my posts, I'd begin by and continue shining light on the mean-spirited, shriveled, black-hearted, psychotic mindset that causes what happens at Abu Ghraib, and causes questions like yours. :)

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:43 PM EST
    sailor - Nope. You are wrong, again. Go back and read my comment, which was on Abu Ghtaib. I then invited edger to treat us to his wonderful ME plans - you know, that's where Abu Ghraid is located - on the open thread. edger - While standing at the back of the room and grinning at you I have determined that you have no plan, just complaints. Al - You may want Rumsfeld. I'm holding out for Jennifer Lopez... To each his own, I guess.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#19)
    by john horse on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:43 PM EST
    Sailor the Dems done "squat" on torture? I think this is unfair. Being the party out of power is that you don't control what Congress investigates. The fact is that the Republican Congress investigates very little because they think that oversight is criticism. The only thing the Democrats can do about torture is what they have done, which is to continue to call for Congressional investigations.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:43 PM EST
    but how is what these soldiers did any different that what was going on when Iraq was under the reign of Sadaam
    Not much difference MWF, that's the problem. I expect more of the US govt. than I do of two-bit tyrants. I believe that some of the soldiers, such as the young man featured in the article, are victims as well. (That slimeball Graner being an exception, he seems to have taken to the abuse with great zeal) They were simply following orders. Think of the horrors that he and other low-level soldiers will have to live with. The non-army guys with the code names are the ones I'd like to see on trial. Then their superiors, and then their superior's superiors. But that will never happen, the govt. has their fall guys and fall girls.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#21)
    by Lora on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:43 PM EST
    Talk left and all readers, Summon the courage to click through the photographs. If you doubt that you should, read this quote from John Donne, "No man is an Island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee." Every American has a responsibility for what happened there.

    Re: Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:43 PM EST
    Believe me Lora, if my taxes were paid, and not taken, I wouldn't be paying them. I know I share responsibility for the actions of my govt. It weighs heavy on my heart.

    Abu Ghraib: Two Lives Destroyed | 21 comments (21 topical)