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Where Was Cheney?

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 07:31:05 PM EST
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Raw Story reports:

Vice President Dick Cheney was noticeably absent from a landmark dinner held last Thursday for the 50th anniversary of the conservative National Review magazine, Roll Call will report in Tuesday editions.

While guests raved about the gourmet food served at the National Review’s 50th anniversary party Thursday night, they couldn’t take their minds off who wasn’t there: Vice President Cheney. His absence dredged up the question that dominated the blogosphere in recent months: Where’s Dick? “Not here,” was the short answer. “Scheduling conflict,” the party line.

Cheney was supposed to speak at the dinner at 7:30. For health reasons, he wanted to move his slot to 7:00. They couldn't change it, and he ended up not going.

The speculation: Is his health worse than we've been led to believe? Or is it because Libby's problems appear to be worsening?

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    • Where Was Cheney? | 35 comments (35 topical)
    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#1)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:52 PM EST
    Somebody forgot to let him out of his coffin.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#2)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:52 PM EST
    They'll keep secrets from us for our own good. Secrecy breeds abuses. Without facts, we must depend on our human intuitions and fears.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:52 PM EST
    Didn't he just have surgery? Takes a while to recuperate from having a knife stufk in you.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:52 PM EST
    Damn, after I typed that last comment I realized that it's big news that the freaking National Review had the chutzpah to refuse to change the speaking time of the Vice President of the United States. Maybe the question is does Cheney have any juice with conservatives anymore.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:52 PM EST
    During the 2004 election, I found it strange that McCain campaigned for Bush after the way Bush treated him in the 2000 Republican primary and the “swift boating” of fellow Vietnam veteran Kerry. I thought then that when (I felt it was certainty that he would be failure) Bush got in trouble in his second term that Cheney would go first and they would appoint McCain. Remember when Nixon was in trouble, he got rid of Agnew and appointed Ford before he resigned. I think that the Bush campaign told McCain this and told him he would be picked to get him to campaign strongly for Bush. Now we see Bush in trouble, his people – Miers, Rove, and Libby in trouble, Dick “always around” Cheney not around, and his senate and house friends – Frist and Delay in trouble. Journalist are saying that Bush is working with his “B” team and that is why he has been making so many mistakes. Eric Alterman at MSNBC writes, “The result is stuff like, “So what if it’s raining at Trent Lott’s house. I wanna go fishing,” and “Way to Go Brownie.” “Why not put Harriet on the Supreme Court?” and “We’re winning in Iraq, really, really we are, anyway, what about 9/11? Remember that?” together with a 33 percent approval rating.” I have felt that the Bush has been working with his “F” team since his inauguration, but that’s my opinion. If there are indictments over the CIA leak, I think Cheney will resign and McCain will become VP. This is just my opinion there is no proof.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:52 PM EST
    Debbiehamil, Your comment about the McCain ascension is interesting. I'm not sure Nixon ever really had that in mind more than any POTUS does when appointing (or selecting ) a VP. He was in such denial that I don't think he ever really seriously considered the fact that he would have to resign. Not until July of '73 I can't remember the exact date that Agnew resigned. And Agnew was not "gotten rid of". He had to resign after pleading no contest to tax evasion charges. Same crimes. Different criminals. These guys and gals are not totally immune.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:52 PM EST
    debbiehamil - Agnew got himself indicted and convicted for taking bribes from contractors when he was Gov. of Maryland. Nixon's "problems" had nothing to do with it. As for Kerry, he got himself in trouble when he brought up his service... Remember his opening line at the convention?.... There are plenty of people, especially military and ex-military that hated Kerry for his actions after he came back, not for his actual service. The problems were compounded when it became general knowledge that he had lied about being in Cambodia Christmas of '68. This opened him up to the Swift Boat charges. The Rathergate memo just put the icing on the cake. As for Cheney, who knows? Bogs were made for speculating..

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:53 PM EST
    Whizzy: The problems were compounded when it became general knowledge that he had lied about being in Cambodia Christmas of '68. Glue Board:
    as Slate.com's Fred Kaplan detailed on August 22, this claim is as unfounded as those preceding it. And a 1971 statement by John O'Neill, co-founder of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, about his own incursions into Cambodia completely undermines his claim that he knows Kerry was never in Cambodia because no one was -- as Media Matters for America has documented.
    TTFN, Whizzy.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:53 PM EST
    I sure hope he doesn't have that fifth heart attack. That would be horrible if he had a fifth heart attack. A lot of stress can cause heart attacks. What are the odds of someone surviving a fifth heart attack?

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:53 PM EST
    Che your comments about Agnew got me thinking so I looked up the Watergate timeline. It went like this: 2/7/73 – Senate Watergate committee established, 4/30/73 – First round of White House resignations, 6/25-29/73 Dean implicates Nixon, and then on 10/10/73 – Agnew resigns

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#12)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:53 PM EST
    Cheney? Maybe Buffy finally got him.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:53 PM EST
    Zappatero: What are the odds of someone surviving a fifth heart attack? Ahem... ;-) Pretty good probably, if you're heartless to begin with.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:53 PM EST
    debbie, Interesting parallels with the way Nixon was replaced by Ford during Watergate. Of course, the sequence of events takes on a lot more significance if you first postulate that the entire sequence of events was being orchestrated by some agency operating altogether outside the three branches of government.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:53 PM EST
    Still throwing out red herrings, PPJ? Could you please explain how "the Cambodia lie" opened up Kerry to Swift Boat Charges in your statement as follows: "it became general knowledge that [Kerry] had lied about being in Cambodia Christmas of '68. This opened him up to the Swift Boat charges. If your guy wasn't trashing the country, it would almost be funny that you accept Kerry as a liar and traitor, the Swift Boat Vets as purveyors of truth and justice.. and all you can muster in Cheney's defense is "The blogs are for speculating, "

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:53 PM EST
    debbie: Please. History.
    On October 11, 1973, Spiro T. Agnew became the first American vice president to resign from office because of criminal charges. He was charged with extortion, tax evasion, and bribery.
    I repeat. None of the above had anything to do with "Nixon's problems..." edgey - Kerry had a couple of problems with his tale:
    "Exhibit 8 is an affidavit by the Commander of the Swift boats in Vietnam, Admiral Roy Hoffmann, stating that Kerry's claim to be in Cambodia for Christmas Eve and Christmas of 1968 is a total lie. .... similar affidavits are available from the entire chain of command. In reality, Kerry was at Sa Dec ..."
    There were also gunboats on the border to prevent any crossing. If Kerry tried to get through, he would have been arrested. Obviously, Kerry has hardly been honest about his service in Vietnam.
    Link One other small fact. He said:
    "I remember what it weas like to be shot at by Vietnames, Khmer Rouge...."
    The Khmer Rouge didn't exist in '68. Don't forget. I'm the guy in the back of the room grinning at your mistakes. But don't believe the Admiral in charge, the whole Chain of Command. After all, what do they know? darkly – Ask a reasonable non-insulting question and you will get an answer. mfox - Where have you been? Been missing you. Hmmm. Red herrings? Can you show me where I called Kerry a traitor? (You can’t, you know.) To answer your question. Because once it was established that he had not been in Cambodia, it brought all his other statements into question, and gave support to the Swift Boat vets claims. Goes to credibility, your honor. BTW – Can you tell me what I am supposedly defending Cheney from? Do you consider not making a speaking engagement a crime? I repeat. Blogs are for speculation. That’s what makes them fun.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:53 PM EST
    Shorter PPJ: Blah,Blah, and more Blah.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:53 PM EST
    Oh yeah PPJ: "I love to believe in lies. It keeps me warm at night"

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:54 PM EST
    Darkly - I found them to be in very poor taste. Now, since I have previously written that I honored Kerry's service, why would you feel the need to ask such a question. ShermBuck - And your point is??

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#22)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:54 PM EST
    ShermBuck writes: Oh yeah PPJ: "I love to believe in lies. It keeps me warm at night" I really do have some very serious unresolved issues that are keeping me up nights with your statement here, Sherm... I keep circling the d*** evil looking thing, peering at it from a safe distance, wondering what I'm missing, and badly wanting to poke it... but my Jacksonian intuition tells me that it might bite, or attack, or at the very least burn my fingers, if I try to touch it... ...and your point is?

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:54 PM EST
    Grand slam if Cheney is indicted. Wonder if prison rape will take the scowl off his face.
    The Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg are working on stories that point to Vice President Dick Cheney as the target of special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation into the leaking of CIA operative Valerie Plame's name.
    HuffPo via atrios

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:54 PM EST
    Squeaky: Grand slam Nothing like the chance of a good grand slam to make the old ball game worth showing up for.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:54 PM EST
    From Cheney to Nixon to Cambodia -- the Jim troll at work. Kerry's service is not in question -- what they can question is the definition of 'in Cambodia.' This was all vetted last year, and the Swiftboat Liars were proven wrong, again. The idea that there was a tight cordon on the Cambodian border in the DELTA is HILARIOUS. That watery border changes by the day, and no one knew where it officially was, in those days before GPS. More interesting was Kissinger retargeting USAF in the air to missions that he KNEW were over Cambodia -- in complete violation of the UN charter, and US law. He hid this retargeting from much of the government, and even from much of the Pentagon. What a war criminal and traitor. Kerry served, with distinction. Bush and Cheney ran and hid. That's all there is to know about that. Kerry came back and helped establish the Winter Soldiers Investigation, in which "109 Vietnam veterans and 16 civilians gave testimony about war crimes they had committed or witnessed during the years of 1963-1970." Those hundred plus veterans needed to get the things they saw off their chests. In recent weeks, in 2005, three special forces, based at Fort Carson, CO, committed suicide on their return from another 'war crime exercise' in the ME. Would they still be alive if they had a Winter Soldiers Investigation so they could give testimony? Clearly it would help. I think John Kerry deserves the considerable gratitude of the American people for helping our soldiers to survive what the generals did to them. Cheney, chickenhawk liar, doesn't even come up to the tops of Kerry's boots, morally. And Jim, you ain't even reaching the laces with your scurilous attacks on his service.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:54 PM EST
    Posted by Squeaky: "Grand slam if Cheney is indicted. Wonder if prison rape will take the scowl off his face." Squeak, I'd lay off on the prison rape imagery -- not very healthy mentally. And Cheney really shouldn't go to prison for his crimes -- firing squad would be more appropriate for such a traitor.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:54 PM EST
    blockquote>I keep circling the d*** evil looking thing, peering at it from a safe distance, wondering what I'm missing, and badly wanting to poke it. Well, if you were a Jacksonian you would step up and attack it to insure it doesn't injure others. But as a dyed in the wool Leftie, I am sure you will only invite it to commit suicide.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:54 PM EST
    Edget wrote:
    I keep circling the d*** evil looking thing, peering at it from a safe distance, wondering what I'm missing, and badly wanting to poke it.
    Well, if you were a Jacksonian you would step up and attack it to insure it doesn't injure others. But as a dyed in the wool Leftie, I am sure you will only invite it to commit suicide.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:55 PM EST
    Where was Cheney? Well, he wasn't on my tv tonight, and for that, I rejoice. I've seen darn near every Law and Order after flipping the channel! Wherever he is, I hope he stays there.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#31)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:55 PM EST
    Posted by JimakaPPJ at October 11, 2005 11:09 PM Edget wrote:
    I keep circling the d*** evil looking thing, peering at it from a safe distance, wondering what I'm missing, and badly wanting to poke it.
    Well, if you were a Jacksonian you would step up and attack it to insure it doesn't injure others.
    Let's see now, as a Jacksonian, with no evidence whatsoever that it's dangerous, but because it appears to be a "d*** evil looking thing", and since you are "wondering what I'm missing, and badly wanting to poke it", being a Jacksonian tells you that you need no evidence and that the best course of action is to "step up and attack it". That would be the PC (pre-emptively correct) thing to do, of course. Cheese-Us!! Yes, of course! Why didn't I think of that? (slapping forehead!) Ummm... Hmmm. You, know, you almost had me convinced there for a minute Jim. But, on reflection, since it's only a "d*** evil looking thing", and not any real threat, I think I'll just invite it to commit suicide and watch it wither on it's own. Thanks for clearing that up for me, Whizzy. {grin!}

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:55 PM EST
    Jim – I stand by my “Nixon got rid of Agnew” statement. The Watergate scandal was exploding during the fall of 1973. The first round of White House resignations started in April of 1973, Dean implicated Nixon in June of 1973, and then Agnew conveniently resigns October of 1973. They had “talking points” in 1973 too. Of course, they didn’t say, “since Nixon is in trouble and might have to resign and we don’t think Agnew will be able to handle the presidency, Agnew will resign”. Yes, he was charged with extortion, tax evasion, and bribery from an incident that happened in 1967. Nixon and Agnew ran for office twice. Don’t you think these “problems” would have came out before 1973? They were needed in 1973 and that’s why they came out. Do you really think that if the Nixon presidency was not faced with Watergate that these “problems with Agnew” would have surfaced? I know that I was speculating about Cheney and McCain …. But when it happens remember you heard it from me first.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:55 PM EST
    debbie - One of Nixon's better traits was intense loyalty. It was this trait that actually brought him down. He could have, for example, immediately condemned the break-in and been clean. Agnew resigned because the FBI had him:
    On the same day he stepped down, Agnew copped a "no contest" plea to charges of tax evasion, which basically means admitting you have done nothing wrong except that you're pretty sure you would get convicted by a jury of your peers. (The tax evasion charge always cracks me up, whether it's Al Capone or Spiro Agnew. I mean, would they have been just fine if they'd itemized their criminal incomes?) Agnew was fined a measly $10,000, sentenced to three years probation and disbarred. A later civil suit ordered him to make nearly $300,000 restitution to the state of Maryland.
    He resigned because they had him. If he remained he would have been impeached.
    U.S. Constitution in Article I, Sections 2 and 3, which discuss the procedure, and in Article II, Section 4, which indicates the grounds for impeachment: "the President, Vice President, and all civil officers of the United States shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."
    Darkly - And, of course, you have no proof they are lying, whereas I provided proof from the Swift Boats group commander, and the chain of command. To you, all of these Admirals, Captains and other military leaders are lying. Now. Wouldn't you think at least one of them would have agreed with the story had it been true? Commonsense, Darkly. Commonsense. Edgey - Evil is as evil does. And it may not accept your invitation. Ask the French, and the English about a guy named Hitler...

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:55 PM EST
    Jim - Don't you think that it appears that the FBI "got" him conveniently when it was politically expedite that he should resign? You do realize that in the fall of 1973 that Watergate was overflowing for Nixon, and that Nixon resigned less than a year after Agnew. Don’t you think that it is strange that these “charges” did not surface during the two Nixon/Agnew campaigns? That just maybe they surfaced when they were needed.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#36)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:55 PM EST
    Whizzy: Ask the French, and the English about a guy named Hitler... Guy named Hitler started attacking his neighbors. Sherm's statement: "PPJ: 'I love to believe in lies. It keeps me warm at night'" is just a "d*** evil looking thing" that was totally incapable of attacking anyone, somewhat like Iraq after the first gulf war, it just sat there looking evil, but was no threat to you. Scary looking thing, and if you touch it you get your fingers burned, somewhat like Iraq. ;-) TTFN, Whizzy.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:56 PM EST
    Jim, lying about the Khmer Rouge:
    (Kerry) said: "I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese, Khmer Rouge...." Jim: "The Khmer Rouge didn't exist in '68."
    Ahem:
    "Throughout the 1960s, domestic Cambodian politics polarized. Opposition grew within the middle class and among leftists including Paris-educated leaders such as Son Sen, Ieng Sary, and Saloth Sar (later known as Pol Pot), who led an insurgency under the clandestine Communist Party of Kampuchea (CPK). Sihanouk called these insurgents the Khmer Rouge, literally the "Red Khmer." But the -->1966<-- national assembly elections showed a significant swing to the right, and Gen. Lon Nol formed a new government, which lasted until 1967. During 1968 and 1969, the insurgency worsened. In August 1969, Gen. Lon Nol formed a new government." Origin of Khmer Rouge name
    Lying just comes easy to Jim. He's grinning in the back room as the innocent are slaughtered in his name.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:56 PM EST
    D*mn, Haloscan messed that up: "But the 1966 national assembly elections showed a significant swing to the right," -- Presuming this chronology is correct, Sihanouk called them Khmer Rouge before 1966.

    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:56 PM EST
    From CNN:
    Key events regarding Pol Pot and Khmer Rouge (AP) -- Major events involving Cambodia's Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge: 1949-52: Saloth Sar, later known as Pol Pot, studies in Paris, becomes absorbed with communist ideology. 1953: Cambodia receives independence from France. Pol Pot works on setting up a communist party. 1960-63: Pol Pot becomes party's general secretary. Flees into jungle to escape repression by Cambodia's ruler, Prince Norodom Sihanouk. 1967: Khmer Rouge take up arms against the government.


    Re: Where Was Cheney? (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:04:56 PM EST
    Here it is:
    In the 1970s the Party became known as the Communist Party of Kampuchea (CPK) and in the 1980s and 1990s as the Party of Democratic Kampuchea, but it became commonly known by the French name Khmer Rouge, a name originally given by Norodom Sihanouk in the 1950s.
    Answers.com

    Where Was Cheney? | 35 comments (35 topical)