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MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment

It's not scientific, but these numbers are pretty astounding. MSNBC is running a poll on whether Bush should be impeached. The results right now:

  • Yes, between the secret spying, the deceptions leading to war and more,
    there is plenty to justify putting him on trial. 86%
  • No, like any president, he has made a few missteps, but nothing approaching
    "high crimes and misdemeanors." 5%
  • No, the man has done absolutely nothing wrong. Impeachment would just be a
    political lynching. 8%

Voting is still open.

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    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#1)
    by scarshapedstar on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 09:48:26 PM EST
    Even "scientific" polls have it at, what, 65%? Compare this to the 12% or so that supported the Clinton impeachment. Hmmmmmmm.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#2)
    by Darryl Pearce on Fri Dec 30, 2005 at 10:44:22 PM EST
    ...but, it's not just Bush. It's the whole crew who've been there since Nixon's day.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#3)
    by profmarcus on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 05:05:50 AM EST
    interesting... i hadn't checked in on the status of this poll since i posted on it on 22 december when it was running at 85% in favor of impeachment... cool... however, here's a sample of the comments from that post...
    What they fail to mention is that, since the poll isn't remotely scientific, it's worthless; properly done polls show very few people in favor of impeaching Bush... and every one of those people is a blithering idiot with no idea of what actions can actually lead to impeachment (here's a hint, Bush hasn't done a single one of 'em). Omni | Homepage | 12.23.05 - 5:33 am | # --------------- p.s. the response total is currently over 122,000... regardless of the poll science (or lack thereof), that many responses to anything is not "worthless" and discounting responders as "blithering idiots" is simply a mindless way of disregarding what it's saying... profmarcus | Homepage | 12.23.05 - 6:04 am | # --------------- That's like saying that if 122K bigots vote that blacks are stupid, that'd really prove something about blacks... but all it'd actually prove is that there are 122k morons in the world. What goes on online does NOT reflect the way things are in the real world; remember, according to what went on online before the last presidential election, Kerry should have won in a landslide. Omni | Homepage | 12.23.05 - 10:11 am | # --------------- Omni, You're not paying attention. Turn off Faux News...they lie. Nancy | 12.24.05 - 2:39 am | #
    ah, well... not the sharpest tack in the box evidently... And, yes, I DO take it personally

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#4)
    by jen on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 05:08:55 AM EST
    They forgot the "I wish but that would leave us with President Cheney" option.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 06:04:16 AM EST
    Shocking! Start a poll that throws red meat to the lefties, let viral marketing take over, and look at the result! MSNBC's next question should be "Should John Kerry and Howard Dean be sodomized with a broom handle?" Let the right-wing sites link to that and it will demonstrate the validity of these asinine online polls.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 06:04:31 AM EST
    The question I have is concerned with nature of the MSNBC viewers. Doesn't this tell us something about them and their politics. This naturally leads me to the question. Why does MSNBC continue to lean so far to the right in it programing. Except for Oberman the line up is consistantly right leaning. I suppose this is the cost for access as well as avoiding retaliation.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#7)
    by DonS on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 06:10:54 AM EST
    Yes, the "Cheney option". Burt an impeachment would signal a sea change in tolerable behavior by the administration -- since everyone (not drowning in koolaid)recognizes Bush is a figurehead, though a stubborn one. Also, impeachment would require some self examination by Congress whose rubber stamp posture has often enabled this corrupt administration. So, in a way, impeachment should be symbolic of the whole damn government taking the cure. Certainly impeachment would bring into balance more this runaway imperial presidency. I'm not nearly as optimistic as I seem about politicians really getting their house in order.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 06:16:44 AM EST
    ED Beckman, This doesn't tell you anything about MSNBC viewers. It tells you the opinions of the readers of left-wing blogs that link to the poll. Duh.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#9)
    by roger on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 06:28:41 AM EST
    Over 182k people responded to this poll. Who here really believes that no right wing sites have linked to this poll. Seems that some only trust the Diebold poll! Enjoy 2006, and the loss of Repub imperialism!

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 06:45:49 AM EST
    Who here really believes that no right wing sites have linked to this poll. Roger, Believe what you like, but I skim right and left blogs every day and this is the first I've heard of it. Neither Instapundit, NRO nor any of the other big right blogs has a link to it.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#11)
    by roger on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 06:55:48 AM EST
    MH, If the Right has abandoned the discussion, then whose fault is that? You say that you skim several sites, did you vote? Also, MSN has a large audience of their own, are you claiming that these results are solely from links to left wing blogs?

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 07:21:40 AM EST
    M.H. Doeth thow protest too much. You seem unable to face reality. I guess wingnuts only believe Faux Not the news, polls. Duh!

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 07:50:18 AM EST
    This is why Democrats do so badly in national elections. You are totally out of touch with reality and with the mainstream. First, you have to be pretty dim not to recognize the obvious problems with online polls. Second, you have to be totally out of touch with mainstream America to believe that 86% favoring impeachment is anywhere close to an accurate sampling of voters, or of MSNBC viewers.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 08:03:00 AM EST
    64% of those in another poll say he has done nothing. Something is wrong somewhere. And where would that be? BION - MSNBC is viewed as a liberal network, and will be even more so after this. Their management is screwing themselves by letting an unscientific poll be run. People have long memories. Ask CNN.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#15)
    by roy on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 08:13:27 AM EST
    Left- and right-leaning communities have linked to the poll, with the intent to "freep" it. Daily Kos and Free Republic, for instance. I've read that both of those were front-paged for a while, but don't know how to verify. scar,
    Even "scientific" polls have it at, what, 65%?
    Got a link handy? I found polls where the impeachment question was couched in conditionals such as "If Bush lied...", but nothing more straightforward.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#16)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 08:16:32 AM EST
    In the interest of reality, our rightie friends here are absolutely right. An unregulated unscientific online poll means nothing. As soon as the Freepers link to it, it will swing in the other direction. They're great at gaming these polls using software that just deletes the MSNBC cookie and votes over and over. But I would posit that any poll this early in the story doesn't mean a lot. Especially over the holidays when people tend not to follow the news. And the Rassmussen and Zogby polls (one of which I am sure is what PPJ is referring to) didn't mention the fact that the wiretaps were done without warrants, without establishing probable cause, and with no judicial oversight. If Zogby called me up and asked me if it was OK to wiretap terrorism suspects, I'd say yes too. And that's just what they asked.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 08:18:23 AM EST
    No scar, scientific polls have 64% of the american people believing he has done no wrong/

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#18)
    by roy on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 08:22:22 AM EST
    Jim,
    64% of those in another poll say he has done nothing.
    Which poll? For brevity, I'm going to guess you mean this one simply because it's been prominent with right-leaning sites lately, whose results are: "Should the National Security Agency be allowed to intercept telephone conversations between terrorism suspects in other countries and people living in the United States?": Yes 64%, No 23% That doesn't say what you say it says. Of course, you might mean a different poll, in which case I apologize for putting words in your mouth.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#19)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 08:43:23 AM EST
    This is why Democrats do so badly in national elections. You are totally out of touch with reality and with the mainstream.
    In the 2004 election George Bush was credited with 50.7% of the popular vote, and 286 electoral college votes. John Kerry finished with 48.3% of the popular vote and 251 votes from the electoral college. That is a difference of 2.4% of the popular vote between the two. I think you'll find that difference is smaller than the average margin of error in most public opinion polls, scientific or not. --- In the 2000 election George Bush was credited with 47.9% of the popular vote, and 271 electoral college votes. Al Gore finished with 48.4% of popular vote and 266 votes from the electoral college. That is a difference of 0.5 % of the popular vote between the two. Again that difference is smaller than the average margin of error in most public opinion polls, scientific or not. --- Democrats do so badly in national elections? Who did you say is totally out of touch with reality?

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 08:56:20 AM EST
    A more realistic, and scientific, poll on this question is the one done by Rasmussen Reports on December 15, 2005 which found that 32% of Americans believe that Bush should be impeached and removed from office. 32 percent? Just a hair larger that the margins of error in both the 2000 and the 2004 elections. With nothing to support it, I think it a reasonable assumption that a week after the 2004 election the percentage of people favoring impeachment of Bus would have been nowhere near 32%... ^^ OO

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#21)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:16:44 AM EST
    And let's have some "fun with numbers". It's common knowledge, I think, that statistics can be made to say whatever you want them to say. Of the 32% figure in Rasmussen's Dec 15 poll that favor impeaching Bush, let's give the right the benefit of the doubt and assume that at least 25% of that 32% are people who voted against Bush and for Kerry. That would leave 7% that are people who voted for Bush. Fair? Again higher than the difference in both elections 2000, and 2004. For an administration that seems to see all problems as "PR" problems, I'd certainly have to agree with them here. They have a little problem.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#22)
    by roger on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:27:43 AM EST
    In all fairness, this poll only shows that this story is not going away anytime soon. And that is bad for W all by itself

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#23)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 09:57:31 AM EST
    We asked for signs the signs were sent the birth betrayed the marriage spent Yeah the widowhood of every government signs for all to see. I can't run no more with that lawless crowd while the killers in high places say their prayers out loud. But they've summoned, they've summoned up a thundercloud and they're going to hear from me. --Leonard Cohen


    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#24)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 10:04:54 AM EST
    In all fairness, this poll only shows that this story is not going away anytime soon. And that is bad for W all by itself
    Exactly. It's just for fun. But it gets the right wingers all riled up. Imagine once their "we dost protest too much!" campaign gets into full swing, and 24/7 we have Republicans going on TV and using "Bush" and "impeach" in the same sentence. Those will be fun times.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 11:40:04 AM EST
    Mike D - Correct. You write:
    And the Rassmussen and Zogby polls (one of which I am sure is what PPJ is referring to) didn't mention the fact that the wiretaps were done without warrants, without establishing probable cause, and with no judicial oversight.
    Seeing as how mentioning all of that without mentioning that legal scholars, etc., believe he has the power, etc., etc., would also blow up the results. The poll I'm referring to just ask for approval of actions. 64% did. 28% did not. 8% no opinion. 51% of those who approved were Demos, which bodes ill for the Demos pushing the issue. BTW - My info came off a FNC - GASP!!! ;-) report.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 31, 2005 at 12:56:25 PM EST
    that legal scholars, etc., believe he has the power, While the majority of legal scholars believe that he doesn't have that power.
    PROF. CASS SUNSTEIN, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO LAW SCHOOL: He's helped change the understanding in academic circles and in government circles of the power of president. LEWIS: One of his key memos argues that the Constitution gives the president power to take “whatever actions he deems appropriate to preempt or respond to terrorist threats.” Based on that, the White House also argued that when Congress authorized military force to respond to the 9/11 attacks, it also provided legal authority to detain enemy combatants, since that's fundamental to waging war. The Supreme Court agreed, even though Congress did not specifically mention detaining combatants. By the same logic, the White House now says Congress authorized the NSA's wiretapping, without specifically mentioning it, because intelligence-gathering is also fundamental to waging war. But Sunstein says Yoo's theory is not widely supported. SUNSTEIN: He's not alone in that view, but that view remains the minority view.
    Link And, as my grandfather used to say, just because you can always find a lawyer to take a case or side of an arguement doesn't mean it's correct or that you'll win, just that you've found a lawyer to serve the function of a 'mouthpiece' nothing more. Here's what another legal analyst had to say about this case:
    OLBERMANN: There's also a kind of backwards way of looking at the electronic surveillance question that was put by a constitutional law professor quoted by "The New York Times," who asked, in essence, if the Constitution directly authorized this kind of stuff, why would we even have this foreign intelligence surveillance court to review wiretap requests? If Mr. Bush can just do this, or any president can just do this, why doesn't he just do this all the time by himself? Why have the court? DEAN: Well, it does happen that we are a government of laws. And-theoretically, at least. And why do we need a PATRIOT Act if he has all these powers? If the-if anyone reads the Article 2 the way Bush does, Cheney, his former counsel, David Addington, and John Yoo do, there are just no powers they don't have in the name of defending the country against terrorism, and terrorism is an indefinite threat. Therefore, they can do anything indefinitely that they wish. That isn't what I think the Constitution contemplates.
    Link TTFN, Whizzy.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 07:01:26 AM EST
    As long as you're believing in the validity of online polls, I thought you might like to know that rape with a foreign object is much more popular than impeachment.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#28)
    by soccerdad on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 07:10:26 AM EST
    Why are the wingers so obsessed with shoving objects into the orfices of others? I knew I should have kept my Abnormal Psych textbook.

    Re: MSNBC Online Poll: 86% Favor Impeachment (none / 0) (#29)
    by MikeDitto on Sun Jan 01, 2006 at 08:43:54 AM EST
    No, PPJ, there is far less than universal agreement on that. In fact, we don't know how many legal scholars believe the president has that right. It could be 1%. It could be 1 in 1000. But it is factually true and undisputed that the wiretaps were done without warrants, without establishing probable cause, and without judicial oversight. The way the polls were worded, those who answered "no" were just incorrect. The government does have a right to do wiretaps, as long as they follow the legal procedure established in the Fourth Amendment. There are a few legal scholars who believe the existence of public schools and the federal income tax are unconstitutional. That doesn't mean that should be mentioned in any poll question regarding taxes or schools.