home

Friday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 09:29:20 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

It's in the high '60's in Denver today. The outside beckons. Here's a thread for you.

< Sen. Harry Reid: Chertoff Should Resign | Justice Dept. IG Reviews Mayfield Case >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Friday Open Thread | 59 comments (59 topical)
    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Lora on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 09:53:05 AM EST
    I believe that the GOP has the ability and the accessibility to hack the counting of the vote in the upcoming elections. I see this as the biggest unrecognized threat to our country. If you are sceptical, what type of information would you need to convince you? There is plenty out there and I will find it for you if I can.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Slado on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 09:53:47 AM EST
    Just read a reveiw of Munich and listened to the screenwriter on Fresh Air this week. I'm interested to see what people think about it. So far typically conservatives are bashing it and liberals are celebrating it. Sounds to me that it's a movie a little loose with the facts and shouldn't be seen as historical in nature. Anyone seen it yet? I will probably see it so I can join the discussion but wasn't this movie already done back in the 80's with Micheal York as the bomb expert? I keep remembering that movie but can't remember what it was called.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Slado on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 09:55:59 AM EST
    Lora, I am skeptical because if it was true don't you think the media would be all over it? I mean they made stuff up about Bush to nail him. Why would they sit on a bombshell like that? Lots of people had "facts" showing Clinton killed Foster back in the 90's but that was a right wing cooky fantasy. Or was it?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 10:01:42 AM EST
    Silly Arcata:
    ARCATA, Calif. (AP) - This small coastal city is dipping its small toe into national politics once again. For the second year, the Arcata City Council passed a resolution demanding the impeachment or resignation of President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, citing violations of international and constitutional law. The resolution passed Wednesday with a split vote, 3-2.
    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by roger on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 10:02:08 AM EST
    How come wingers always respond to posts abot W with "Clinton did x"? W admits that he wiretapped without a warrant, what rational response starts with "Clinton lied about...."? So, fine, I'll assume that Clinton DID murder Foster during rough sex. What would that have to do with allegations of the GOP rigging elections? Just wondering

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by swingvote on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 10:05:52 AM EST
    Lora, No argument that this kind of thing is a potential problem, but what makes you think the Democrats lack the ability, accessibility, or will to do the same thing? Their long and storied history of vote fraud suggests they do.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by desertswine on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 10:31:58 AM EST
    It's in the upper sixties in Denver? On January 6th? That can't be anything but bizarre.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 10:35:27 AM EST
    upper sixties in Denver... January... bizarre... Pat Robertson has yet to comment

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Lww on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 10:42:11 AM EST
    My daughter in the USAF at Buckley in Denver says the warm weather is unreal. It's also saving her a ton of money on heating bills... I'm wondering if any people who love to talk about how terrible "white trash" is will be heading down to the Sago mine entrance wearing a sandwich board. I'll bring a camera, and some paramedics.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 10:44:07 AM EST
    Pat Robertson has yet to comment God, I hope Pat can contain himself? On a lighter note: Much as I really enjoy Xmas and New Years and the holidays, for me it usually takes till the end of this first week of January before business gets back to a normal pace. It's been an unusually good first week this time though. Hope that portends a year of the same, for all...

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by desertswine on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 10:46:32 AM EST
    Lou Rawls is gone... Jesus what a voice.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Johnny on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 10:51:56 AM EST
    Sounds to me that it's a movie a little loose with the facts and shouldn't be seen as historical in nature.
    I said the exact same thing about "The Passion of the Christ". Before I watched it. After I watched it, I just realized how crazy it is that people think they needed that in order to feel their lives are fulfilled. Then I realized it was a propaganda film pushing Mel Gibsons vision of religion. Munich is the same thing.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Lora on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 10:58:09 AM EST
    Slado, You raise a good point. I googled the "Hursti Hack," the latest very convincing demo of e-voting vulnerability, and I got nearly all non-mainstream media hits. However I did manage to find an AP article of the demo in a Florida newspaper. However, the NYT did sit on the bombshell of NSA wiretaps for a year...so the media can sit on bombshells with no problem at all. justpaul, Well I think the reason more dems haven't been screaming for accountability within the elections process is...yeah, they have done their share of tampering with elections too (vote early and often!). However, the e-voting machines and software are run by GOP-friendly corportations and they have potentially the biggest impact on vote counts -- and could potentially change the outcome of a presidential election.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by swingvote on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 11:13:18 AM EST
    Charliedontthink, You're another one that needs to make sure you are responding to the right people before you hit the "post" button. I didn't say a word about Clinton. As for the Democrats and election fraud, you are either being intentionally disingenuous, or you are displaying a lack of knowledge that is astounding for anyone who would deign to weigh in on such a subject. I suspect the latter, but hey, who knows? The Democrats have a history of over voting, voting by dead people, and ballot box stuffing that goes back to at least 1900. If there is a way to fix an electronic voting machine, they are working on it. As are, in all likelihood, the Republicans. I trust neither party on this. The fact that we actual trust the two parties to hold elections in the first place is a fact that never ceases to amaze me. Your excused for the rest of the day so you can go do your homework, Charlie.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by swingvote on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 11:18:22 AM EST
    Lora, Stuffing ballot boxes and insisting that voters who clearly voted for one candidate actually intended to vote for another have just as much potential for changing election outcomes as anything that can be done with a Diebold machine. The old punch card machines are just as manipulable as electronic systems. Hell, even voting by hand on paper can be faked, as has been done repeatedly over the years. All of which is secondary, as far as I'm concerned. I'll believe people are serious about solving the problem when they begin by making sure only U.S. citizens who are eligible to vote and who are voting in their proper districts are in fact voting. Screaming about paper trails when we don't even bother to make sure we should care at all about how a specific person voted is ridiculous.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Lora on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 11:55:14 AM EST
    justpaul, Voting integrity should be a non-partisan issue. All facets need to be addressed. Yes, dems are guilty of fraud. Repubs are too. I'm not saying we shouldn't address all those issues - we should. That said, some reasons I'm obsessed with e-vote fraud are that you can actually take steps to verify who people are and monitor ballot boxes. Paper and old fashioned machines have to be altered one at a time. With e-voting, fraud can take place on a grand scale without leaving a trace. And although I'm sure the dems can produce as many if not more clever hackers as the repubs, the repubs by and large control the e-voting process and have far greater opportunity for actually manipulating the outcome without ever getting found out. If we don't have paper and we can't audit the paper, we (all the citizens) are giving up all oversight and are essentially turning over the election to Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S and others. And we know who they favor, don't we? The CEO of Diebold promised to deliver Ohio's 2004 electoral votes to Bush. Now whether he just said it or actually did it -- no one will ever know.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by swingvote on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 12:00:31 PM EST
    Lora, History has shown that he who controls access to the old punch card machines before the election can prepunch stacks of ballots to be counted instead of those the voters actually used. You can do the same with paper. As for the Diebold machines: Yes, it is true that the people who run Diebold are disturbingly close to the GOP. But get me a job programming the machines and I can very well do anything I want inside the code. It's the mid-level programmers who actually write the code we need to be worried most about. I don't deny that the GOP has been playing games with elections, and I don't make excuses for their having done it. I only object to the claim that it's only the GOP that does this, as that kind of attitude is what makes getting the real problems solved impossible. If we want to cleanup voting, we need to take it out of the hands of the parties.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by swingvote on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 12:01:33 PM EST
    Hey Charlie, I decided to be kind and help you out with your homework assignment: Hope it doesn't get in the way of watching your daily stories. From Tammany Hall's machine politics in the 19th century through Mayor Daley's grasp on Chicago elections, right up to Lyndon Johnson's first election and John Kennedy's 1960 cliff-hanger defeat of Richard Nixon, many US elections have been thought to have had "irregularities". Democrats have also been charged with wrongdoing. In one instance, Chad Staton of Defiance, Ohio, charged with filing 124 false voter registration forms, said he committed the felonies in exchange for crack cocaine from Georgianne Pitts of Toledo, who was working for NAACP National Voter Fund. In 1960, there was good reason to suspect that John F. Kennedy only won the election thanks to fraud on the part of Lyndon Johnson in Texas and Mayor Richard Daley (father of Gore's campaign manager this year) in Chicago. Logan County Clerk Glen Dale "Hound Dog" Adkins admitted to selling his vote for $500 in the 1996 Democratic Party primary, while Crown resident Perry French Harvey Jr. pleaded guilty to conspiring to bribe voters in last year's Democratic contest. Here in Colorado at least three groups are involved in registration fraud. ACORN, the New Voters Project and Colorado Progressive Coalition. Some very disturbing reports out of Pennsylvania indicate that the hyper-partisan Democrat Gov. Ed Rendell and the former Kerry campaign official he just put in charge of monitoring the state's election for problems such as fraud are working overtime to make sure that the votes of some 16,000 military voters aren't counted. He and the city's top election official said that the city requested 938,000 ballots from the county, which, by law, pays for and prints ballots. In a letter sent to City Elections chief Lisa Artison, Walker said that he had "serious questions" about the need for that many ballots when the city reported having 382,000 registered voters in September.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 12:33:43 PM EST
    et al - 60's as a high in Denver is not particularly unusual... Downslope winds, compression, etc. On the other hand, 6 as a high wouldn't be unusual, either... I miss the town, even from my palatial retirement compound. It is a great place to live... charlie writes:
    Well, confining ourselves to the present tense, we know the reptiles DID and HAVE, just pathetic.
    In that case you should be able to show and prove. Again you have let your alligator mouth overcome your butterfly behind. Flaps those wings, charlie. Flap'em!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Punchy on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 12:39:01 PM EST
    NEWS: Duke Cunningham wore a wire. I cannot believe what I'm reading. A freakin' WIRE on a Congressman. Jesus. With as corrupt AND arrogant as these Republicans are, I just cant fathom how many convicted themselves in his presence, unknowingly. Wow.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 12:43:31 PM EST
    Punchy: Cunningham wore a wire. OMG!! LOL! ROTFL!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Dadler on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 12:56:11 PM EST
    Slado, You want a different take on "Munich", try this one. Understand I'm just passing it on, not endorsing, agreeing, disagreeing or anything with it.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Patrick on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 12:56:27 PM EST
    Slado, I saw it last week. Damn it was good. I recommend it for anyone, of course it's based on a true story, but for all I know the similarities begin and end with there were olympic games in Munich. Don't get caught up in whether it's factual or not, Speilberg kept me on the edge of my seat and got my heart pumping more than once.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Dadler on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 01:05:15 PM EST
    Add Slado, I don't think Vince Foster is a good comparison for today's electoral fraud possibilities. The Foster case is history and proven. These hackable voting machines are proven so but not history, they're STILL BEING USED. Go to BlackBoxVoting.org and see for yourself. As for the media, I can only say they've done a terrible job. Admittedly it's not a pretty story, it's a tech story, of codes and programs and things that few reporters, like few of us, have a clue about.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by roger on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 01:05:46 PM EST
    I love how the response to vote fraud is "Dems did it too!". It's wrong no matter who does it, couldnt you just say that? I guess not

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by Lora on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 01:13:22 PM EST
    justpaul, All that said, is there any reason NOT to insist on a completely transparent election process? That would have to include paper, for at least you can audit and oversee the process. What happens inside the e-voting machine is between the programmers and God.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Jlvngstn on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 02:00:12 PM EST
    Being that the right side has presented some examples of irregularities in voting on the left, how is it wrong that they do not accept responsibility for the irregular voting on their side? I have yet to see any left sider acknowledge that there has been any suspect activity relative to voting on their side. It seems to me that the argument "the left has no room to talk" is valid if what Justpaul is saying bears any semblance of truth. And being from Chicago, I find at least a nugget there......

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 02:08:52 PM EST
    Jl: I have yet to see any left sider acknowledge that there has been any suspect activity relative to voting on their side. Lora explicitly said of Democrats that "they have done their share of tampering with elections too..."

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by roger on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 02:17:16 PM EST
    Jl, Being from Chicago, do you really need me to tell you about Dem graft? I am sure that you could add to my knowledge of the topic!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by Jlvngstn on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 02:44:55 PM EST
    Roger, you are bit older and wiser than I and could probably share a bit with me... Sorry punchy, i could not tell if Lora was a left card or a libertarian, but i will trust your categorization. Methinks election fraud is overrated in the repub victories of late. The right ran a man who cannot speak in complete sentences and the left ran a guy who could not finish thoughts in 387 words or less. Bush is Quayle with a powerful last name.....

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by Jlvngstn on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 02:48:38 PM EST
    I never really thought of this until now but I completely understand why Bush I chose Quayle, he was preparing the country for his son's running. Brilliant long term planning.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 02:50:24 PM EST
    I think what is different is that the Repubs seem to now have a greater potential to do harm because of their supporters at Diebold etc. I think that there has to be a major election overhaul not only with respect to procedures but also funding. Otherwise we will continue to get these rich, corporate friendly Repubs and Dems who as a group dont care about the average citizen. There also has to be a major overhaul of the rules governing monies that come from interest groups in order to curb what I consider wide spread corruption. And if any of you think that any of this will happen then I have some swamp land for you.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Jlvngstn on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 02:54:02 PM EST
    SD, "I think what is different is that the Repubs seem to now have a greater potential to do harm because of their supporters at Diebold etc. So if the dems promised to do no harm in rigging elections it would be ok? Maybe i am misunderstanding what you are saying here, but irrespective of my feelings toward current policy, Diebold does not provide the repubs with the ability to do harm, only pursue their parties' interests which of course the dems would do as well.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 02:58:06 PM EST
    So if the dems promised to do no harm in rigging elections it would be ok?
    I didn't say that did I. In fact I said there had to be reforms in voting and other areas. I consider vote fraud harm since the vote does not represent the wishes of the people regardless of who gets elected. But hey thanks for the cheap shot.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Jlvngstn on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 03:01:27 PM EST
    SD - But you did say that the repubs have the potential to do more harm, which of course should be applicable both ways if Diebold were playing left field. A cheap shot would have been "sd, you are a whiner" or "I never really thought of this until now but I completely understand why Bush I chose Quayle, he was preparing the country for his son's running. Brilliant long term planning." I was merely pointing out that your argument made no sense based on the framing of the first paragraph.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 03:07:31 PM EST
    But Diebold is not playing left field and I called for reform so you dont have a point. Nice try.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 03:11:55 PM EST
    58% of those liberal voters over at the John Birch Society think Bush should be impeached.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by Slado on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 03:55:19 PM EST
    Soccerdad Enough with the impeachment stuff. That has been shot down repeatedly. Not guilty of any crime and you actually have to win an election to even try and get the votes. Charlie. Thanks for the movie reference. I think I will download/rent it again because it was awesome. I think Munich is told from a slant but what movie isn't. I'll see it and report Dadler. Thanks for the link. I'm in Chitown to drink beer and have fun with college buddies. Rock on and have a good weekend.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 04:49:42 PM EST
    The Duke was wired? Ho Ly S**t

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 05:14:06 PM EST
    An American Military Hero
    Hugh Thompson Jnr, a former US military helicopter pilot who helped stop one of the most infamous massacres of the Vietnam War has died, aged 62. Mr Thompson and his crew came upon US troops killing civilians at the village of My Lai on 16 March 1968. He put his helicopter down between the soldiers and villagers, ordering his men to shoot their fellow Americans if they attacked the civilians. "There was no way I could turn my back on them," he later said of the victims.
    link Even in the worst of conditions he knew right from wrong.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 05:53:44 PM EST
    Good catch Soccerdad.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 07:06:45 PM EST
    Great post at firedoglake, and with a link to some intense photos from numerous punk shows in the Bay Area 1978-9. Jane writes:
    the blog world has the feel right now that the punk rock scene of the late 70's had, and for much the same reasons... Enjoy the blogs while you can. These are the salad days.
    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimcee on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 07:16:09 PM EST
    Soccerdad, Hugh Thompson jr was a true hero and humanitarian, RIP. Also I didn't realize the Birchers were still around. I can't imagine that there are many left. Punchy, It should be interesting to see if Cunningham has exposed others with his same penchant for living the good-life while on the take. The more corruption that is exposed, R or D, the better.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 07:56:57 PM EST
    charlie - You are the guy who never provides links, or any evidence. Sorry charlie, you're just another fringe player.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by jimcee on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 08:04:09 PM EST
    JimakaPPJ, It is best to ignore Charlie. No need to encourage him.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by john horse on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 08:37:28 PM EST
    Roger, You asked "How come wingers always respond to posts abot W with "Clinton did x"?" 1. They can't take responsibility for their actions, even when they control the Presidency, both houses of Congress, and the Supreme Court. 2. If they make themselves believe that the other side played dirty (whether true or not) then it helps rationalize them doing the same.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 09:29:07 PM EST
    Bill Gross is arguably the world's leading bond fund manager, responsible for $100 billion at PIMCO. In addition to being the bond guru, he is a very decent guy. His monthly letter of October, 2005 made a big impression on me. He wrote:
    An old and wise friend gave me some sage advice recently, “Be kind,” he said, “everyone you meet is fighting a battle.” Amazing guy.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 09:36:48 PM EST
    Dont think so John- Only reason I said Clinton did x was it was referenced before me. I'll take this president any day over Clinton or any other Dem. that goes with whatever he thinks is popular at the time. Part of the reason Bush is hated so much is becuase you lefters know exactly where he stands and you hate it. Anyway I enjoyed my brief stay here folks but I am off now as most of you bore me with your typical, whiny, leftist-commi dribble. Thought it might be interesting to see what the other half was thinking but alas, I was clearly mistaken. All I can say is thank GOD (thats right I am a Christian too-gasp!) the grown-ups are in charge again--We are cleaning up Iraq, which yes folks was a problem (dont believe me get your heads out of your arses for 2 minutes and look up a soldier who just came home and they will tell you the facts), we didnt cause Katrina and did help bail out the completly incompetent local and state govt., yes we are listenting in on bad people that want to kill us who call from the countries where they are planning to do so, and finally as an OHIO voter in Columbus who worked with the election let me be the first to tell all of you the only problem in Ohio was that alot of people showed up!! Whites waited a long time, blacks waited a long time, rich, poor, urban, rural, Cleveland, Columbus, Cinncy, Toledo, etc-we all waited! No conspiracy, No Diebold delivery (although that one is classic), nothing. Check your facts--Last polling place to close in Ohio was a small rural college town at about 4 am--And although it rained that day I promise you everyone was rained on not just the poor as your cute little media liked to portray. But hey if any of you are interested in checking actual facts go ahead--you'll find that the non-partisian voter fraud board set up a 1-800 # just in case of funny business and the most complaints were logged against the good old Move-On.orgers. Ok enough of the rant I will gladly run for the door now as a group who really beleives Kerry as president was a good idea scares me a Helluva lot more than anything else. good luck. you'll need it.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 09:46:58 PM EST
    chelly: good luck. you'll need it. after reading that, what I really need is ibuprofen and Johnny Walker Red.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimcee on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 10:34:29 PM EST
    Chelly, Don't jump to conclusions about who hangs out in these parts, you might be suprised. Punisher, I know what you mean but ibuprophen and alcohol? Bad idea. If you think scotch is bad for your liver and pancreas just add ibuprophen to super-size the effect. %(

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 05:44:59 AM EST
    Jimcee - Come on, we can't ignore charlie. It would break his heart.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#53)
    by roger on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 05:45:15 AM EST
    Charlie, The '60 election is widely considered to have been overflowing with fraud. No one knows which side cheated more, but most objective historians agree that the fraud was massive on both sides. Electoral fraud is not new, and not unique to any one party. However, the potential of electronic fraud takes things to an entirely new level, particularly if there is no paper trail. Heck, I wouldnt want Dems in charge of such a system either!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 06:21:05 AM EST
    jimcee: ibuprophen and alcohol? Bad idea...liver... It wasn't my fault!! Chelly forced my hand!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 09:45:47 AM EST
    Chelly, We'll miss ya! (not really)

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#56)
    by john horse on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 04:45:45 PM EST
    Roger, The answer to fraud and corruption is not to commit fraud and corruption if it will benefit your side. The answer is reform the system so that nobody does it. When anyone points out any fraud and corruption, the GOP, like a broken record, keeps pointing fingers at the Dems. What they don't do is advocate that the system be reformed. Its all about power not doing whats right. Methinks they protest too much.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#57)
    by Edger on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 06:27:11 PM EST
    Jeralyn, nice work with graphics, BTW. Especially liked the one on the "Congressional Report Doubts Legality of NSA Warrantless Surveillance" thread. Reminds me of the Philip K. Dick story "Eye In The Sky". The thread and Dick's book have some plot parallels, too.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#58)
    by Edger on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 06:33:53 PM EST
    One more good "Eye In The Sky", this time book cover art.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#59)
    by Lora on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 06:57:06 PM EST
    chelly, Rep. Conyers and a whole host of other people disagree with you about Ohio voting irregularities. And huge, long lines are definitely a problem. How many people had to leave without voting? Had to go to work? Pick up their children? Why weren't there enough voting machines available? And...somewhat related, why on earth isn't election day a holiday? Used to be, didn't it? If I worked, had a long commute on the bus, and could lose my job if I didn't show up, I'd be more likely to vote if I had the (paid) day off.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#60)
    by Edger on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 06:39:43 PM EST
    < ---: Lora: I believe that the GOP has the ability and the accessibility to hack the counting of the vote in the upcoming elections. I see this as the biggest unrecognized threat to our country. Analysis of an Electronic Voting System
    We identify several problems including unauthorized privilege escalation, incorrect use of cryptography, vulnerabilities to network threats, and poor software development processes. We show that voters, without any insider privileges, can cast unlimited votes without being detected by any mechanisms within the voting terminal software. Furthermore, we show that even the most serious of our outsider attacks could have been discovered and executed without access to the source code. In the face of such attacks, the usual worries about insider threats are not the only concerns; outsiders can do the damage. That said, we demonstrate that the insider threat is also quite considerable, showing that not only can an insider, such as a poll worker, modify the votes, but that insiders can also violate voter privacy and match votes with the voters who cast them. We conclude that this voting system is unsuitable for use in a general election.
    Friday Open Thread | 59 comments (59 topical)