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Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying

By Jeralyn, Section War on Terror
Posted on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 09:45:25 AM EST
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The ACLU has released the results of a new poll by conducted by the Washington-based firm Belden, Russonello & Stewart, measuring voters' attitudes toward the NSA warrantless surveillance of Americans. The full report is available here. Among the poll's findings:

  • A majority of voters want Congress to "demand that the warrantless eavesdropping be stopped because it is illegal."
  • A majority of voters believe "the president should not be acting on his own in deciding how to fight terrorism without the checks and balances of the courts or Congress."
  • A majority of voters oppose the government eavesdropping on Americans' calls to people overseas without a court warrant.
  • A majority of voters are skeptical that the President acted within the law:
  • A majority of voters express the view that the President can "effectively combat terrorism and follow the law and get court warrants to spy on Americans."
  • A majority of voters believe the President is wrong to assume that "the Congressional resolution to go to war in Afghanistan to fight terrorism also gave him permission to eavesdrop on Americans without a warrant."
  • Also, at least a third of Republican voters consistently expressed viewpoints that they are concerned that the president is operating outside the law.

The poll also found that American voters have serious concerns about the Patriot Act. Specifically, the poll found that:

  • Two-thirds of voters who have heard of the act believe "some changes need to be made."
  • Only two in ten voters say the law should be made permanent.

More on the ACLU's position on the illegal NSA spying is here.

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    Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying | 25 comments (25 topical)
    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#1)
    by DonS on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 10:08:49 AM EST
    Whaddaya say about them apples, wingers? (you know who you are). Oh, I forgot, the ACLU isn't a Rove-approved organization. My bad.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#2)
    by glanton on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 10:17:13 AM EST
    I don't believe this poll. I wish I could, though. But in truth I think the majority of Americans are not only okay with the spying this government has done, but that they would be comfortable with it going much, much further. As long as you don't mess with their guns and you say the right things about God and gays, privacy just aint a priority for them. "If you're doin' right, they state flatly, "you won't have nothin' to hide."

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 11:03:09 AM EST
    glanton-What is there not to believe? Have you been duped by the last poll that asks Would you be willing to give up privacy if it meant preventing a major terrorist attack? Most answered yes to that one. It is all in how you ask the question. Another way of getting an affirmative would be this: Would you mind if your phone conversations or email was occasionally selected, randomly of course, if it meant saving your family and friends from getting abducted tortured and burned to death? Most would answer, no problem if it meant saving my loved ones from that horror. The ACLU poll asks questions without the BS fear-mongering. I believe that most Americans do not want intrusive snoops invading privacy and running roughshod over their fourth amendment rights, particularly when it yields nothing of note except run of the mill dirt which can be used for McCarthy type government blackmail.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#4)
    by glanton on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 12:03:32 PM EST
    believe that most Americans do not want intrusive snoops invading privacy and running roughshod over their fourth amendment rights
    First of all Squeaky, it's nice to believe that. I wish I could. I remember some stiff telling me something to that effect in 9th grade civics class, too. And it made me proud to think of a natrion of citizens jealous of freedom, their own and others'. Having lived in the real world with real people and witnessing real elections for several years has cured me of such idealism. Things here do not run according to the Declaration of Independence, but according to how the American people really are. Which brings me to the larger point. The key word in what I quote above is obviously "their." Americans don't like to think of themselves being spied on, or losing their rights. Thus the backlash with the Shiavo lemondade stand fiasco: so many people had been there themselves, they were able to recognize what the Rethugs were doing. But the sad truth is it has to be personal or Americans don't care. Gitmo doesn't resonate because it represents the plight of people not me. Same with gay rights, same with any other civil liberties issue. Looking outside the box is not an American strong suit. I think most people see themselves as "having appropriate conversations," and therefore din't worry about the implications of domestic spying. Any more, that is, than the average straight white American really gave a damn what happened to Matthew Shepard. Reagan didn't start this "ME" thing, it's as American as Apple Pie. But Reagan gave the neocons the language to make it sound okay. Just before he lost the ability to use language, that is.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#5)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 12:36:37 PM EST
    I understand your point, have argued it myself in fact. The question I have is how do you explain the above poll results? I would not so quick to sweep it under the rug as you. Americans are affected by the continual lying of the WH and by the epidemic corruption that has infected the republican party. The war is costing. Short sighted americans whom you refer to do feel this in the price of heating fuel, gasoline, social spending cuts and inflation. America seems to be slowly rousing from its deep slumber. Even Andrew Sullivan has stopped sleeptalking and now also feels that he has been conned.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#6)
    by glanton on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 12:43:53 PM EST
    I cannot explain the poll. I do not know who was called. What I am saying is I have no faith in the poll in any case, don't see it as particularly meaningful. Let me put it another way. In 2006 the GOP will once again sweep the South and the Midwest and steal a few spots here and there up North and on the Left Coast. Same in 2008. This has to do with, more than anything, hatred of the Other. This is an American epidemic and there appears to be no cure. And those Dems who do win in the South, like Clinton in the past and now that VA Governor everyone's drooling over, only win because they ape GOP rhetoric and policies, only making it LITE.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#7)
    by demohypocrates on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 12:48:16 PM EST
    Talk about hypocrisy, Talkleft, do conflicts of interest only bother you if come from Republicans (see thread above)? The 'firm' that conducted this junk poll is nothing more than a left wing PR firm. Their political client base: Alliance for a Better California, 2005 "No on Amendment A" South Dakota, 2002 D.C. Councilwoman Kathy Patterson Cook County Board President U.S. Rep. Lynn C. Woolsey (D-CA) Gore for President Campaign, 2000 "Yes on Amendment E," South Dakota, Bruce Babbitt 1988 Presidential campaign Clinton-Gore 1992, New Mexico campaign Clinton-Gore 1992, November Group, OH Connecticut Senate Democratic Leadership U.S. Senator Alan Cranston (D-CA) Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee Democrats for the 90s Democrats for Montgomery County, MD U.S. Rep. George Miller (D-CA) Their Civil Rights and Liberties client base: Advancement Project American Civil Liberties Union Amnesty International Catholics for Free Choice The Constitution Project IPAS Justice at Stake League of United Latin American Citizens NAACP Legal Defense Fund National Legal Aid and Defender Association National Association of Women Judges New York Immigration Coalition NOW Legal Defense and Education Fund Open Society Institute Pennsylvanians for Modern Courts Planned Parenthood Federation of America Youth Law Center Oh my, the ACLU is there!! Also from their site: Social movements rise or fall on how well they reflect the public's values and appetite for change - whether it is education reform, Smart Growth, indigent defense, biodiversity preservation, death penalty moratorium or defending civil liberties. Sheer coincidence they found an appetite for change here now isn't it. Lets look at their team Nancy Belden, Founding Partner - In the 1970s, Nancy was active in women's issues and community organizing. She was the public information director for a Planned Parenthood affiliate John Russonello, Partner- press secretary and speechwriter for House Judiciary Committee Chairman Peter Rodino (D - NJ) Kate Stewart, Partner - Her work has advanced the goals of many organizations, including the Kendall Foundation, The Biodiversity Project, ACLU, and Amnesty International Those are the principals, lets seeing some of the folks doing the research: Chris Jackson, Research Assistant - joins BRS after serving in the Kerry-Edwards campaign as the war room manager and the Kerry primary campaign as the operations manager Llorin Edwards, Research Assistant - worked for Dean For America as the Iowa Director of Special Projects. In 2002, he served as the Assistant to the Campaign Manager for Senator Wellstone's final campaign Emma White, Research Assistant - was a field organizer for Dean for America in southeast Michigan Client A believes in XY and Z. Client A pays Firm that also believes in XY and Z. Firm takes money and does 'poll' that shows that everybody believes XY and Z. Nice work. Now lets get Halliburton to commission a poll.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 12:59:53 PM EST
    So we can count on the fact that demohypocrates wants to sell his fourth amendment rights for toilet paper. How unamerican. Saudi Arabia or Egypt seems like a country more in sync with your standards. You should feel well at home there.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#9)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 01:11:05 PM EST
    glanton-sad to see that we have lost you. Hope for change is essential to turn things around. Looks like demohypocrates is not alone in his minority thinking, even if s/he is out of touch with America and 300 years of constitutional values. My guess is that s/he had so much fun debunking the poll that he did not bother to actually look at it. A real thinker. From the poll:
    While there is a partisan divide on these issues, it is not as wide as some, and opposition to the President's policies cannot be explained as simply anti-Bush. At least a third of Republican voters consistently express viewpoints in the survey that show they are concerned that the President is operating outside the law. We find: half of the Republicans (50%) who have heard about the Patriot Act think it needs changes rather than permanency; over a third of Republicans oppose the President's policies of indefinite detention at Guantanamo (36%) and do not want the President acting on his own without regard to Congress or the Courts when he is combating terrorism (36%).


    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#10)
    by demohypocrates on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 01:16:41 PM EST
    Poll data is released + Poll data is questioned = Demo buys turban and hawks Constitution on ebay

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#11)
    by jondee on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 02:00:43 PM EST
    glanton - Brother, I hate to tell you this, but maybe its time to get out of Texas. At the very least move to Austin.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#12)
    by Slado on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 02:24:49 PM EST
    Sadly demo "some" on this site cannot stand to read an opinion other then theirs no matter how factually based or reasonable it is. If you don't swallow the kool aid (the lefty flavored one) you hate the constitution, are a wingnut, etc...

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#13)
    by glanton on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 02:35:50 PM EST
    Jondee: I respect your apparent optimism and your disagreement, but when the returns come in November indicating the same ole same ole, will you be one of those who is surprised? I grant you that Texas is an extreme case in terms of privacy rights=gun compounds only, but I do not grant that it is some kind of abherration. Not a lot of respect for the "Other" kicking around in North Carolina, Alabama, Utah, Ohio, etc. And of course there are plenty of "Blue States" which are so only barely, or only in name, or both. Witness Pennsylvania. What is far more common is a state like Virginia, with a "me too" strategy being the Democrats only prayer.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#14)
    by Sailor on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 03:42:52 PM EST
    a poll released last week by Zogby International showed 52 percent of American adults thought Congress should consider impeaching Bush if he wiretapped U.S. citizens without court approval, including 59 percent of independents and 23 percent of Republicans. (The survey had a margin of error of 2.9 percentage points.)
    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#15)
    by demohypocrates on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 06:16:23 PM EST
    Nice a Zogby poll commissioned by AfterDowningStreet.org and CensureBush.org. Didn't know how that one would turn out.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#16)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 06:38:21 PM EST
    Glanton- Hope tis gives you some juice. Here is another poll, conducted by deduction. The wingnuts are unscrewing themselves but fast:
    RENO, Nev. (AP) - Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid said Friday that if midterm elections were held today Democrats would win the five seats they need to draw even in the Senate, due largely to the Bush administration's "general incompetence" at home and abroad. [...]
    Reid said polls show Democrats winning Republican-held seats in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Montana, Missouri and Rhode Island.
    "And we have good shots in Arizona and Tennessee," he said. "If elections were held today, we'd pick up five seats. The Senate would be 50-50. "
    dkos

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#17)
    by Sailor on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 06:52:13 PM EST
    Nice a Zogby poll commissioned by AfterDowningStreet.org and CensureBush.org.
    I call BS, just because those sites, and a thousand others link to Zogby polls doesn't mean they commissioned them. If you have factual links, put up or shut up.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#18)
    by roy on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 07:18:32 PM EST
    Sailor, From Zogby's site:
    By a margin of 52 to 43 percent, citizens want Congress to impeach President Bush if he wiretapped American citizens without a judge's approval, according to a new poll commissioned by AfterDowningStreet.org
    Is that the poll you had in mind? I pointed out the commision source to you last month, which I mention only because I think it's funny. Zogby itself has a pretty solid reputation. Questions might be skewed if they came verbatim from the customer, but the methodology is probably fair.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#19)
    by Sailor on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 07:28:38 PM EST
    Boy is my face red! Yep, I screwed up. demohypocrates has got a free pass from me here on out. And that's gonna hurt;-) Roy, thanks, I hate to say it, but thanks.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#20)
    by roy on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 07:45:04 PM EST
    Sailor, glad to be of assistance. You're more careful than most about backing up claims with links, so zinging you on one is a rare pleasure.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#21)
    by demohypocrates on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 07:50:35 PM EST
    Sailor, no biggie. Dawg knows I have done it. I should have linked. I actually came back here because I forgot to source TL in my post about the poll. Free pass expired. Grill me as I deserve to be grilled.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 08:23:48 PM EST
    John Dean gives a historical basis for the fourth amendment's use of the term 'probable cause' and responds to the The Why-Should-I-Worry Question He points out that the concern for privacy, post 1948, was to "largely in reaction to the atrocities of Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia."
    Why did [Judge] Jackson reach this conclusion? "Any other rule would undermine 'the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects,'" he explained, "and would obliterate one of the most fundamental distinctions between our form of government, where officers are under the law, and the police-state where they are the law."
    emphasis mine I am not sure where he got his poll resuts but he claims that:
    ....In 1995, eighty-two percent of the American public was concerned, and the latest poll numbers for 2005 show close to ninety percent are concerned.
    He comments about the 10% who are not concerned:
    In short, if you are not concerned, you are a bit out of touch with reality. But not everyone believes there is wisdom in crowds.
    John Dean

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#23)
    by demohypocrates on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 10:55:29 PM EST
    Please Squeak, that article is the 90 pound beach weakling. Who are the aggrieved parties here- one fella that spent 2 weeks in jail because of some negligent agents? Put some meat behind your posts and not a lil slice of ham - 'real thin, please, for sandwiches'. And dont tell me about what polls are saying. If they are so much in your favor... then win an election.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#24)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 11:09:18 PM EST
    demo-Let me guess.... you are part of the 10% who uses the fourth amendment for toilet paper. Nice.

    Re: Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying (none / 0) (#25)
    by demohypocrates on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 05:04:23 AM EST
    Squeaky, First you said I sold the Constitution for toilet paper, now you say I used it as toilet paper. Get your witless lil Fairy Land story straight.

    Poll: Most Americans Reject Spying | 25 comments (25 topical)