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The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram

by TChris

TalkLeft has frequently written about detainee abuse at Bagram (coverage collected here). The NY Times reports today that the population of the detention facility in Afghanistan has quiety increased while the world's attention has focused on detainees in Guantánamo.

[S]ome of the detainees have already been held at Bagram for as long as two or three years. And unlike those at Guantánamo, they have no access to lawyers, no right to hear the allegations against them and only rudimentary reviews of their status as "enemy combatants," military officials said.

The Times reports that the military is holding some detainees in Afghanistan to avoid legal protections that might be available to Guantánamo's detainees. About 500 prisoners are now held at Bagram under conditions that are more extreme than those at Guantánamo.

Bagram has operated in rigorous secrecy since it opened in 2002. It bars outside visitors except for the International Red Cross and refuses to make public the names of those held there. The prison may not be photographed, even from a distance.

From the accounts of former detainees, military officials and soldiers who served there, a picture emerges of a place that is in many ways rougher and more bleak than its counterpart in Cuba. Men are held by the dozen in large wire cages, the detainees and military sources said, sleeping on the floor on foam mats and, until about a year ago, often using plastic buckets for latrines. Before recent renovations, they rarely saw daylight except for brief visits to a small exercise yard.

The Times reports that the Bush administration decided in September 2004 to stop sending new detainees to Guantánamo to circumvent possible judicial review of their detentions. Until then, Bagram had been a clearinghouse where detainees were interrogated before they were transferred or released. With no new transfers to Guantánamo, detainees have been bottled up in Bagram. The decision not to house new prisoners at Guantánamo explains this report of U.S. plans to build a high security prison in Afghanistan.

The Times also tells us that some detainees are caught in the middle of a dispute between the CIA and the Pentagon.

Defense Department officials said the C.I.A.'s effort to unload some detainees from its so-called black sites had provoked tension among some officials at the Pentagon, who have frequently objected to taking responsibility for terror suspects cast off by the intelligence agency. The Defense Department "doesn't want to be the dumping ground," one senior official familiar with the interagency debates said. "There just aren't any good options."

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  • Re: The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 01:56:44 PM EST
    Wow, it's wartime, and the government is holding prisoners taken during combat operations. Next, TChris will discover that the sun rises in the east.

    Re: The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram (none / 0) (#2)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 02:07:12 PM EST
    What, no Anzio or Bridge at Remagan references Jim? Pissing and moaning about the site but you keep coming back. A little passive aggressive dont you think?

    Re: The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 02:13:13 PM EST
    A bit of light will shine at Gitmo:
    A federal judge ordered the Pentagon on Thursday to release the identities of hundreds of detainees at Guantanamo Bay to The Associated Press, a move which would force the government to break its secrecy and reveal the most comprehensive list yet of those who have been imprisoned there.
    Next step Bagram and the other US secret detention centers around the world. Sunlight is the best disinfectant for those pleading a moral imperative for highly suspect activities (just trust us). The world is watching. Lots has been lost during the Bush years and all for naught. We are less safe as are many other people in the world because of our heavy handed actions. What are we gaining from all the secrecy? Mistrust for one.

    Re: The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 02:19:33 PM EST
    Bagram is some secret detention center - what with everyone knowing it's being used for that purpose.

    Re: The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram (none / 0) (#5)
    by Al on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 02:45:07 PM EST
    JR, there would be nothing surprising if these were POW's. But they're not. They haven't even been captured in battle. They are prisoners and they are tortured and abused because the military doesn't have a clue about how to fight a guerrilla war. So they beat the crap out of a taxi driver because they have no idea where Osama bin Laden is.

    Re: The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram (none / 0) (#6)
    by theologicus on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 05:08:12 PM EST
    Take action against torture. We need 100,000 signatures: National Religious Campaign Against Torture

    Re: The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram (none / 0) (#7)
    by Bill Arnett on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 07:49:33 AM EST
    My what a shining example of the benefits, rights, and privileges that accrue to a "democratic society". If Saddamn had only been aware of the horrific crimes against humanity that can be executed in the name of "freedom", he would certainly have sought to have himself properly elected, refused to align himself with terrorists, and declared that Iraq would have a secular government with equal rights for women...uh...nevermind...

    Re: The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram (none / 0) (#8)
    by Bill Arnett on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 07:54:00 AM EST
    Re: James Robertson: Wow, it's wartime, and the government is holding prisoners taken during combat operations... Congress declared war against Iraq? Gosh, I had no idea! Doh! That must mean Bush was right about everything all along and I was just blind and did not see...

    Re: The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 08:11:51 AM EST
    Ironically, we know somewhat about the conditions of prisoners at Bagram because for a good number of prisoners at Gitmo stopped at Bagram first. At that time, the treatment was more rough, more ad hoc... at Gitmo, its scientific-- reverse engineering our interrogation resistance measures. The theme seems to be the same: somehow, avoiding the rule of law and our treaty obligations is somehow the goal, why we set up GItmo in the first place, and now, why we're moving away from it. Well, so far, no one we know of has died at Gitmo, though some are damned close to it. Not so everywhere else, where around 100 have died, over 2/3 believed to be from "homicide". The fact is, we've had wars before, and we've taken prisoners before, and we usually TRIED to honor our treaty obligations before, and everything turned out more or less ok, and the republic didn't collapse, our enemies didn't roll in, etc. The only difference this time seems to be venality and viciousness. And I'm not talking about "our enemies".

    Re: The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 11:52:45 AM EST
    Posted by James Robertson February 25, 2006 03:19 PM Bagram is some secret detention center - what with everyone knowing it's being used for that purpose. Auschwitz was some Death Camp - what with everyone knowing it was used for that purpose - yeah, that really cramped himmler's style.

    Re: The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 11:59:19 AM EST
    Posted by James Robertson February 25, 2006 02:56 PM Wow, it's wartime, and the government is holding prisoners taken during combat operations. Next, TChris will discover that the sun rises in the east. Ya think maybe shrub and his apologists will discover that "We're at War" is no more the all purpose note from your mother than "Orders are Orders" was at Nuremberg?

    Re: The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 02:03:55 PM EST
    It's wartime!? Then why would bush cut funding for the Nat'l Guard who make up 30% of American troops in iraq?

    Re: The Forgotten Detainees at Bagram (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 04:17:42 PM EST
    Sailor, remeber who we're talkin' about here, fella. This is the bush league administration. Logic, reason and leading by example don't apply.