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Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to Heaven

By Jeralyn, Section Off Topic
Posted on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 08:57:15 PM EST
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Jerry Falwell gets further and further out there. His latest knucklehead theory is that Jews and Muslims can't go to heaven.

While I am a strong supporter of the State of Israel and dearly love the Jewish people and believe them to be the chosen people of God, I continue to stand on the foundational biblical principle that all people -- Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, Jews, Muslims, etc. -- must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ in order to enter heaven. -Jerry Falwell

Blogger Jason Weisberger at Just Plain Bother has co-opted Falwell's comments and urges you to click here and demand Falwell apologize.

For an extra hoot, check out this paragraph from Falwell's auto-biography about his crazy, cruel father. Your family values at work.

There were times that Dad's pranks bordered on cruelty. One of his oil-company workers, a one-legged man he nicknamed 'Crip' Smith, complained about everything. Dad and Crip's co-workers got tired of the old man's bellyaching and decided to take revenge. One morning Crip called in sick and Dad volunteered to send by lunch to his grateful but suspicious employee. Dad and his chums caught Crip's old black tomcat, killed it, skinned it, and cooked it in the kitchen of one of Dad's little restaurants. They called it squirrel meat and delivered it to Crip on a linen-covered tray. When Crip returned to work the next morning, Dad and his co-conspirators asked him how he liked his meal. They knew he would complain even about a free home-cooked lunch, and when Crip called it "the toughest squirrel meat" he had ever eaten, they were glad to tell him why.

[Also republished in this New Yorker column, a satire piece by Ian Frazier, but the quote is real.]

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    Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to Heaven | 71 comments (71 topical)
    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#1)
    by scarshapedstar on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 09:42:47 PM EST
    Wow. Now I see how the Reverend turned out so well.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dick Durata on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 09:58:46 PM EST
    Speaking as one of the Chosen, if Falwell's going to heaven, I'd rather look for a different destination anyway. I hear that Limbo's going to have a lot of openings soon.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#3)
    by roy on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 09:59:58 PM EST
    So God chose wrong?

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 10:00:11 PM EST
    Blogger Jason Weisberger at Just Plain Bother has co-opted Falwell's comments and urges you to click here and demand Falwell apologize.
    Why would anyone expect a Christian to apologize for stating a fundamental Christian tenet? You rarely see the type of anti-Christian spew that Jason wrote. Perhaps Jerry and Jason are both lost in their separate religious lies.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 10:04:01 PM EST
    You mean a fundamental evangelical tenet, don't you? Not all Christians are evangelicals.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 10:14:31 PM EST
    We offer our sincere apologies to the three remaining non-evangelicals.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 10:14:44 PM EST
    Allen: I don't really expect the right Rev. Falwell to apologize - but its kinda fun to ask. I am also not anti-christian, heck I'm married to one! Its all about the melting pot, brother.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 10:33:04 PM EST
    Yeah, these people are real different from the taliban.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#9)
    by Johnny on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 11:26:52 PM EST
    Like it or not, he is a high profile christian, and his beliefs are shared by millions upon millions upon millions of christians. They may have a little more tact in the way they express their disdain for members of different faiths, but express it they do. The Apostles Creed makes no doubt about the one correct way to heaven. I am with Allen on this one, one cannot apologize for ones religious beliefs and still maintain their conviction. That all being said, if Jerry Falwell wasn't so adamant about imposing his particular brand of invisible man worship on all Americans via legislation (100% unconstitutional) and exaggerated hyperbole and missionarying (disingenuous at best), I would never give him a second thought. He believes none but those who have accepted christ shall gain access to heaven, and he is 100% correct in that belief-his religion has it no other way. There are no backdoors, there are no buy-offs, there is no other way. He also believes (as anyone who is following the christian faith is aware) that he has a moral obligation to convert as many people as he possible can. Of course, that makes him 0% different from anyone else who adamantly follows their religion, at least in regards to his/her belief system. My religion has no conversion process. The concept of approaching people and asking them "Have you been saved?" is ludicrous. From where I sit, you are all a part of everything and everything is a part of you, whether you believe it or not is your thing, makes zero difference to me. If a person believes that when they die, it is only the cessation of your current form and from then you get drawn back into the circle and become a part of everything around you (as I do), then the idea of heaven as a reward is utterly absurd. He feels the same way about my dirt worshiping, and he is correct (in the context of his brand of supernaturalism) to feel that way. I only want the government to lay off of any kind of religious legislation, it is all illegal under the first.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 01:58:03 AM EST
    I don't think Falwell can get into heaven or Robertson or any of these Elmer Gantry type hypocrites

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 02:01:29 AM EST
    I think what bothers me most about these people is their belief that once they've been 'saved' their actions do not matter, they are going to heaven no matter what they do or how they treat others.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#12)
    by scarshapedstar on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 02:12:55 AM EST
    What bothers me even more is that evidently to be "saved" all you have to do is check the little box at the end of a Jack Chick tract.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 02:39:22 AM EST
    If you assume that Falwell's theology is the One True Faith, he's not going either. In any religion that has a Hell, using people's faith and trust in the Almighty to line your own earthly pockets earns you a ticket downstairs.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#14)
    by Edger on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 03:56:07 AM EST
    Christianity and Islam both promote the strange concept that upon your death you will be united once again with the source and ultimate ground of reality and existence, in a paradisical state of existence. The feeling of being an ego enclosed in a bag of skin separate from existence or "in" but not "of" the universe, and the weird idea that we can ever be separate from the ultimate ground of existence rather than being an expression of it, is in my opinion an hallucination fostered by these religions. Falwell in saying a person "must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ in order to enter heaven" is expressing a logical extension of this hallucination. He is claiming to be an authority on the only way to regain something that cannot be lost in the first place. Thanks fer tryin' Jerry. Good luck though. I'm sure someone will bite...

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 04:44:05 AM EST
    It's just like I've always said about these meshuggah kukluxkristian taliban types. They love Israel, they just hate Jews. And the repos wonder why they can't crack 23 percent of the Jewish Vote, already. Oy Vey! What were we born, a Minsk a Pinsk! We can see a sig heil comin' a mile a way. The falwells of the world aren't even trying to hide their cards anymore.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 04:58:20 AM EST
    "Yeah, these people are real different from the taliban." That's just uninformed. Falwell and his ilk are nothing like the Taliban. Have they advocated the violent takeover of the country and imposition of their will? Or have they advocated their views and tried to work within the system? Never mind what you think of their views - I don't much care for them either. But comparing him to the Taliban shows a fundamental lack of awareness.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 05:18:44 AM EST
    Schiavo. Justice Sunday. Justice SundayII. Hawkin' How Hillary murdered Vince Foster Videos to the rubes on TV. Yada, yada, yada. Nice try, jr. You nitwit nation guys have got that market cornered. Ignorance, Inc. has the key to the uninformed cafe. It's your clubhouse.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#18)
    by Aaron on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 05:37:11 AM EST
    That's just uninformed. Falwell and his ilk are nothing like the Taliban. Have they advocated the violent takeover of the country and imposition of their will?
    I think it is more than fair to conclude from their statements and conduct that "Falwell and his ilk" would very much like to impose their will on the rest of the nation (and world). Since you're accusing others of ignorance, given that the Taliban rose to power primarily by coopting its opponents as opposed to battling them, what's your point supposed to be on advocacy of violent overthrow? If relates to advocacy for the violent overthrow of nations which don't follow their religious beliefs, who was it who declared "God is Pro-War" in support of war against nations of a different faith? Could it have been... Falwell? Take a short quiz, and tell us how easily you can distinguish the rhetoric of Falwell and Robertson from that of, say, bin Laden. ("Falwell and his ilk" are different from the Taliban, but not so much in the manner you contend.)

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 05:41:31 AM EST
    I got to hand it to you Charlie, you do a better impression of someone "who knows what the hell their talking about" than most around here. But then again, I know you could find your ass with both hands.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#20)
    by lilybart on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 05:48:34 AM EST
    Why ask him to apologize for what Christians believe? If people don't like their belief that only Christians go to heaven, then expose the illogic of a God that creates billions of souls that he KNOWS in advance, being omniscient and all, are going to an eternity in hell. THAT is the problem here, not Falwell's beliefs which are Christian beliefs.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 06:03:17 AM EST
    Posted by Variable March 15, 2006 06:41 AM
    I got to hand it to you Charlie, you do a better impression of someone "who knows what the hell their talking about" than most around here. But then again, I know you could find your ass with both hands.
    And if ya play your cards right, maybe someday I'll teach you that valuable life skill. Or did ya just blow the line? That's what I thought.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 06:08:57 AM EST
    The three major world monotheisms are built on fairy tales whose naraative motifs long preceded the emergence of these religions. Moreover, history proves that when there are three distinct "Words of God" there are bound to be, shall we say, disagreements. And when well-armed adults disagree, people often die. And continue to die. Having said that, and adding the fact that I really hate wingnuts, I fail to see why Mr. Falwell should apologize for adhering to and annunciating a fundamental doctrine of his church. I certainly can't see why anyone would find his remarks surprising. They are not more insane than literal belief in the doctrine of the Woman and the Talking Snake.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 06:15:51 AM EST
    The United States is not Afganistan. It is not torn to pieces by 40 years of warfare. It has a central authority and organized infrastructure, and a literate populace. These conditions are different from those that the Taliban found. Falwell and his ilk, presented with those conditions, probably would try to take over and impose their will. Read some of what the Christian Reconstructionists (who are not so far from Falwell) write. You will be convinced. Fortunately, as much as the current direction sucks here under the current regime, it is not Afganistan.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 06:24:49 AM EST
    James Robertson: >Or have they advocated their views and tried to work within the system? Problem is when those views break the system. The urgency of the fundamentalist to force the rest of society to live by his or her mores runs contrary to the whole American Experiment. One of the driving factors, if I am to believe every American history lesson I had from K-16, behind American settlement was freedom from religious persecution. If a fundamentalist wants to live in America because here he or she can practice their beliefs without some outsider regulating them, great. When you want to tell other people how to live their lives based on your religion, America isn't supposed to welcome you. Its supposed to tell you to go practice your religion while I practice mine. I am sure my repeating this basic American tenet is somehow Christian persecution.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 06:37:54 AM EST
    Ba'al writes:
    Falwell and his ilk, presented with those conditions, probably would try to take over and impose their will.
    This link details some of the horrific actions of the Taliban. Now, if I understand it, you say Fallwell would do the same thing, given the similar circumstances. What you fail to address is simply this. The Christain faith has gone through a reformation that rejected forced conversions, convert or die, etc., practiced by Catholic warriors, especially the Spainards in the 16th century. You have absolutely no evidence of any comparable actions in modern times, and I suspect you are aware of that fact. Et al - Your defense by ommission of the radical Moslems' various killings of Christians, Jews and especially other Moslems speaks ill of you. Fallwell is harmless. The radical Moslems are not.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#26)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 06:54:44 AM EST
    Comparing them to the taliban is a great example of extremism. I think Jerry Falwell is an idiot, but no where near as irresponsible or treacherous as the leaders of the taliban who believe that women should be beaten into submission. It is a fundamental tenet of nearly every protestant religion whereby not accepting christ as your lord and savior will sentence you to eternal damnation. So what? Every religion claims to hold the key to eternal life based on their beliefs. Although the scripture does contradict itself relative to this matter i.e., "for by grace are ye saved not by works" and "faith without works is dead" and "no one comes unto the father but by me" etc, why should it come as a surprise that Jerry would make such a statement? The earth has been around for 2 billion years or so, and Jerry believe that accepting or not accepting a "christ" in an 85 year life span will merit out a 2 billion year or so sentence in hell. Comparatively speaking, it sounds like sentencing someone to 2000 years for jaywalking. It does seem rather harsh and ridiculous...

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 06:57:25 AM EST
    Who died and made Jerry Falwell St. Peter? If the belief that a paradise in the clouds exists weren't so hysterical in and of itself, I might be troubled by Falwell's comments. As it is though, it's just classic unintentional comedy. For a great take on the afterlife, read Vonnegut's "God Bless You Dr. Kevorkian".

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 07:19:41 AM EST
    Or have they advocated their views and tried to work within the system? Nice try. In Afghanistan and your more medieval Islamic countries, the Taliban did and does work within the system. Like Falwell et al, they game the system, using people's best and noblest feelings as a weapon against them. And with "Faith-based Initiatives," they've got their snouts in the public trough (i.e., Bush is once again using our tax dollars to grease his supporters' palms). It's not so different from the Taliban legally shaking down the public where they live.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#29)
    by Edger on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 08:04:07 AM EST
    The Falwells of the world are some of the most dangerous people on earth. They rely on people being insecure with and afraid of their own mortality and depend on being able to sell enough of those people on the idea that the Falwells have the inside scoop, the lowdown on reality. More dangerous than people like the taliban with their belief that women should be beaten into submission, they go after women, and men, when they are still children and warp the girls into believing they should submit, and the boys into believing they deserve and should have power over the girls. Simple divide and conquer politics. They are at their most dangerous in their ability to convince so many that "Falwell is harmless".

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#30)
    by Johnny on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 08:31:26 AM EST
    Fallwell is harmless.
    He is only hopeless until he gets his way. Then he is definately not harmless to me or my way of life. There is a 100% necessity in keeping any and all religious wording out of any and all legislation. The minute Falwell gets his version of invisible man worship accepted, officialy (like that idiot judge who enshrined the ten commandments in a friggen COURTROOM!), MY beliefs are legally NOT as valid. Already, for example, were I to be called as a witness, they ask me to swear to a god. My gods don't give a sh!t about oaths. And you know how religious minorities have been treated, dontcha? THAT is what makes the dominionists dangerous.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 09:21:41 AM EST
    Some of the posters here believe it wrong to compare Jerry baby to the Taliban. Have they not noticed what our messiahnic-evangelical-in-chief is doing to other countries? Does Boyken ring any bells? I wonder how harmless the people in Iraq think our evangelicals are?

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 09:24:24 AM EST
    Assuming Jerry is going to Heaven (he seems to think he is), God must have some pretty low standards. That being the case, what does one have to do to go to Hell?

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#33)
    by Johnny on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 09:37:42 AM EST
    JP, according to his version of invisible man worship, he is going to heaven, and it is not up to you to determine if he is or isn't. No matter how ludicrous I think the idea of heaven and hell are (and to me, they are astoundingly ridiculous), every man follwos his faith the best way he can... And if Falwells brand of superstition tells him by acting this way he is going to his heaven, well then he is. But not your heaven.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 09:42:41 AM EST
    Johnny, I never implied that it was up to me whether or not Falwell is going to Heaven (if it were he wouldn't have a chance). My point was that if Jerry believes he is going to Heaven, he must believe that the standards at the Pearly Gates are pretty damn low, meaning almost anyone can get in. That being the case, just how bad does one have to be to be refused entry?

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 09:49:05 AM EST
    This whole thread is very indicative of how twisted you lefties have become. This whole thread is very indicative of how desperately needed Christianity is in American culture. You people have so perverted Christian intent, and so distorted the intent of radical Muslim groups that I am amazed you can make it through the day with out walking into walls. Jerry Falwell is a preacher, that's what he does. If you don't like what he has to say, then don't listen. Radical Muslim's want to kill you, if you are too cowardly to defend yourselves, then die. However, to attempt to conjure up some kind of "logical" comparison of the two, just to justify your own demented views of the world, is not only asinine but comical. You people should have given this tact up about the same time that you realized the "my dog ate my homework" excuse wasn't going to work. But then again, I never stop being amazed at how tight your grip on the ridiculous really is, and I never stop being amazed at your overwhelming expectation that one day the other 99% will realize that you were right.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#36)
    by Patrick on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 10:00:13 AM EST
    what does one have to do to go to Hell?
    Not believe. That's it.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 10:10:13 AM EST
    Falwell's heaven would truly be hell for me.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#38)
    by nolo on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 10:10:30 AM EST
    Right now, variable, I think we're only waiting for the other 34 percent to realize that we were right ;)

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 10:21:11 AM EST
    Falwell is a preacher, that's what he does. If you don't like what he has to say, then don't listen. You righties are the ones greasing his palm with our money.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#40)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 10:39:08 AM EST
    And if Falwells brand of superstition tells him by acting this way he is going to his heaven, well then he is.
    This is getting to the fundamental point. Christians have Christian heaven, if you want to get in, you gotta believe in Christianity. Just the same, Jews and Muslims have their own heavens, to which non-believers won't be able to enter. What's the fuss all about?

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 10:49:02 AM EST
    Sarcastic, I don't think this statement is correct:
    Just the same, Jews and Muslims have their own heavens, to which non-believers won't be able to enter.
    Do you have a link (partiularly as to the Jewish faith) that supports that idea?

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 10:59:14 AM EST
    The Apostles Creed makes no doubt about the one correct way to heaven. Actually, it doesn't. You might be thinking of the Athanasian Creed. However, the distinction is mere pedantry, as Falwell is a Baptist, and they don't do creeds, although they may subscribe to their tenets.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#43)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 11:40:54 AM EST
    TL, I had a feeling I was on shaky ground and now you want me to actually research the facts to back up my comment? Ok, ok...google did turn up some interesting things. Apparently, in Islam:
    Most Muslims believe that Christians and Jews, as "people of the book," will be accepted into Paradise. But some Muslims do not, considering all non-Muslims unworthy.
    In the Jewish faith:
    There is debate about virtually every aspect of Jewish views on the afterlife, including the question of whether Judaism has a concept of an afterlife at all. For those who believe in Olam Ha-Ba, there is debate about whether the term refers to heaven and hell (Gan Eden/Gehinnom) or whether it refers to this world as it will be in the messianic era after the resurrection of the dead (tehiyat ha-metim)--or whether it is something entirely different.
    Although I've lost the link, I found something in Wikipedia along the lines that, of the Jews that believe in an afterlife, you must follow nine laws to achieve the afterlife. The nine laws looked pretty similar to most the 10 commandments, so I'm guessing they're old testament-based, and not specifically requiring a belief in Judaism.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 11:51:24 AM EST
    Thanks, Sarcastic for googling. Here's one I just found:
    Christian theology firmly believes that if you do not believe in Jesus you are going to "burn in Hell". The purpose of this book is to prove that this is a crazy notion that man made up and contradicts what God says in the Jewish Bible.
    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 11:56:38 AM EST
    Here is one Christian sect that appears to disagree with Falwell. The sect believes that Heaven and hell are a state of mind experienced while we are alive, not in the afterlife.
    "One does not have to die in order to go to hell, any more than one has to die to get to heaven. Both are states of mind and conditions, which people experience as a direct outworking of their thoughts, beliefs, words, and acts. If one's mental processes are out of harmony with the law of man's [sic] being, they result in trouble and sorrow; mental as well as bodily anguish overtakes one, and this is hell".
    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 12:00:47 PM EST
    I don't want to ignore Islam here. Here's one Muslim's view of their views on heaven and hell:
    Islam teaches people to balance themselves between this life and the hereafter (heaven/hell). Whatever you do in this life must be good because it will help you earn a either good, or bad, hereafter. Islam teaches people how to balance the two and enjoy life within the guidelines God gave us.
    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 12:04:45 PM EST
    As for the commenters who opine that Jews would prevent Gentiles from going to heaven or would ban them from hell, this site disagrees:
    Judaism does not believe people who are Gentiles will automatically go to Hell or that Jews will automatically go to Heaven on their basis of their belonging to the faith. Rather, individual ethical behavior is what is most important.


    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 12:13:23 PM EST
    Most of Judaism, as far as I was taught, in a very reformed Southern California congregation, bases its rules on the Talmud. The Talmud is more a code rules that I think truly shows the anthropological source of religion than any other. The gist of one famous rule is: 'God says don't eat pork because you could die, its dirty.' This is pretty clearly because there was no government FSIS (Food Safety and Inspection Service) and peopel were unlikely to stop eating pork or crab because Yitzack said so. Yitzack goes and tells the Rabbi he thinks worms in pigs cause death via tape worms. Rabbi realizes its smart to not eat port for whatever reason, and voilla "God says don't eat pork." Now - if we can be certain that was the intent behind a jewish dietary law, which I've been taught is a certainly (but I've thought that since i was a kid, maybe I'm wrong.) - doesn't it draw questions to what was the intent behind every thou shall and shalt not? Is everyone intention so pure as my fictional Rabbi? Anyways, with the invention of the FSIS and a moderate investment of trust on my part, the Talmudic dietary laws are no longer a concern. Maybe some people should view the Bible through the same filter.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#49)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 12:29:46 PM EST
    Wow, you are a fast googler TL. I also found that Christian-Universalists believe
    ...that the Bible itself teaches the universal reconciliation of all souls to God at the end of time. The Bible says that this will happen because of the power of Jesus Christ to save souls from hell. There is no "point of no return," such as committing an "unpardonable sin" or dying without accepting Christ, that could ever cause a soul to be lost forever. No one is beyond hope...
    However, the truly-held belief that non-believers will burn in hell certainly explains why Evangelicals are Evangelical - they want to help other folks to avoid burning in hell. Well-intentioned but misguided...if they're wrong. What if they're right? Ah well, welcome to the human race.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 12:33:06 PM EST
    Folks, getting off on tangents discussing the afterlife is to miss the point. Irrespective of what Falwell claims to believe about the next life, in this one he's a documented serial liar. No one, even fundamentalist Christians, should take him seriously.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#51)
    by Slado on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 01:18:57 PM EST
    Hell is the absence of God. Personally I don't think God is vindictive enough to create a special place for people who don't believe in him or behave badly in life. God doesn't care if you believe in him he cares about what you do with the gifts you've been given and how you treat others. If you choose to believe and ask for his guidence or seek his comfort in this life good for you. It can be helpfull but I don't think its a requirement. Also it's a mistake to label all "christians" or even "evangelicals" with JF. He's a moron who abuses his position as a church leader much the same way Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton abuse their positions as black leaders.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#52)
    by Johnny on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 01:35:23 PM EST
    Slado, you can label him a moron, but that ain't gonna stop him from getting into his version of heaven. According to him and and his beliefs, he is following the most just route around. And that is what it is all about.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 01:58:03 PM EST
    Does he run with the Pat Robertson crowd?

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 04:24:32 PM EST
    Slado, you can label him a moron, but that ain't gonna stop him from getting into his version of heaven. No way, even in the theology he claims to espouse ("claim" being the operative word here--Falwell's in the business of spinning yarns for rubes, to put it charitably). Jesus takes a dim view of people who take His name in vain, especially for purposes of deceit, self-aggrandizement and promoting torture, death and violence.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 05:10:09 PM EST
    I agree with Molly. I feel Bush used God name in vain when he called his invasion of Iraq spreading God's gift of freedom to Iraqis. Falwell and the other religious charlatans are like the Taliban - not because they a violent like the Taliban. Of course they are not. They are like the Taliban because both want to meld their government with their religious beliefs. They both want all people to think the same - like them. Not only are these religious charlatans dangerous to the political health of our country, they are dangerous to mainstream Christianity. My friend is what I call a Bush christian. She listens to these religious charlatans that have made up issues like gay marriage hurt marriage and religious persecution. The charlatans preach hatred of "gays" when Jesus preached love and forgiveness. They have actually convinced people like my friend that Christianity is under attack. This is why these Bush christians want to plaster walls of public buildings with the Ten Commandments and teach creation. Falwell, Robertson, and Dobson make money when people feel that their values are in jeopardy, because they feel that these charlatans will save the church and our country. The Bush christians are blinded with this fear, and the problem is we then get stuck with the likes of Bush and true Christianity is smeared with heresy. Upon reading the above post, I see that the charlatans have done an excellent job of smearing the word "Christian". Please know that all Christians are not the same. I would go so far to say that the Bush christians (christian right) is in the minority. They are just louder. Bush and his minions feed into the fear drummed up by the charlatans by their rhetoric against gays and and their rhetoric for a theocracy. This is only RHETORIC. The Republicans never actually do anything to make these changes because they use these issues to mask their true agenda of soaking the rich with cash.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#56)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 06:20:05 PM EST
    Falwell and his ilk are nothing like the Taliban. Have they advocated the violent takeover of the country and imposition of their will? I can only give one current example. I think what bothers me most about these people is their belief that once they've been 'saved' their actions do not matter, they are going to heaven no matter what they do or how they treat others. What bothers me is how anxious they are to get there, and take as many of us with them as possible. It's easier to drop the bomb when, if it turns out badly, that is exactly what God intended. That's why it is imperative that they be removed, by any means necessary. To save humanity from "God". Where did Cain's wife come from? The garden next door?

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 12:01:20 AM EST
    Posted by TalkLeft March 15, 2006 01:03 PM
    As for the commenters who opine that Jews would prevent Gentiles from going to heaven or would ban them from hell, this site disagrees:
    Jeralyn, Thanks for Googling that. It is often said that the only thing Jews agree on is that they don't agree on anything.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#58)
    by Johnny on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 12:46:46 AM EST
    I feel Bush used God name in vain when he called his invasion of Iraq spreading God's gift of freedom to Iraqis.
    Thats fine you feel that way, but he doesn't. He won't get into your heaven, but you won't get into his. Simple, isn't it? This is why people literally kill other people in the name of their invisible man in the sky. Just for Jim... Bush calling the WOT a "crusade", and invoking the name of his invisible man doing so is tantamount to killing in religions name. Whether we are on the good side or the bad side, our commander-in-chief is waging what he feels to be a holy war. Violent christians are not a thing of the past.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 06:34:45 AM EST
    There is something very surreal to me about debating the admission standards of an imaginary place. Human beings are a weird bunch sometimes.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#60)
    by Slado on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 08:23:39 AM EST
    The way "some" liberals recoil to reliegion baffles me. They constantly confuse the actions and words of a few with the overriding message. Meanwhile they hold up a separate set of morality or values be it communism, humanism or even environmentalism as the answer and fight just as fervently when these beliefs are challanged. What's the difference? The belief that there is something greater then oneself is not a sign of stupidity. One shouldn't confuse faith and religion with the abuses of man.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#61)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 08:41:12 AM EST
    You cling to this notion that only people who believe what you believe have a belief in a power greater than themselves. Therein lies the rub. It's also the difference between the faith-based community and the Reality-Based Community.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#62)
    by Johnny on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 02:49:23 PM EST
    There is something very surreal to me about debating the admission standards of an imaginary place.
    LMMFAO exactly kdog!
    The way "some" liberals recoil to reliegion baffles me. They constantly confuse the actions and words of a few with the overriding message.
    You are, of course, actually talking about conservatives and Islam, right? Sorry people, everyone has their own path, and if you like to assume your superior because you feel your path is the higher ground, I feel for you. But that is what so-called revealed religions teach. If they taught that their path wasn't the higher ground, the cash flow would shift elsewhere. That has been the underlying tone here (liberal AND conservative posters)... "Jerry Falwell is NOT going to heaven, or if he is, I wouldn't want to go to his 'cuz his standards are tooooooo low!" LMMFAO! LMAO he doesn't want ANY of you going to HIS heaven, he is just as convinced we are all going to fry in hell! From where I stand, enlightened religions relying on post-mortem rewards for what you do now are utterly ridiculous.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#63)
    by Sailor on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 03:45:57 PM EST
    radical clerics like fallwell (ironic name) and robertson and all those in the jewish, muslim and christian faiths who preach hate violate the basic tenets of each of their religions. The Quran repeatedly labels Jewish and Christian persons as "people of the Book" and views their original Books as coming from God. Muslims speak of both Jesus and Mary with reverence and respect. They believe that Allah or God gave revelations not only to Abraham and Moses, but also to Jesus and all prophets. For them Christ is not messiah, savior or divine, but one of God's holy messengers. when I was growing up I was taught that Catholics were going to hell because they didn't believe in Jesu like my sect did. Faith can be a wonderful thing, religions aren't.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#64)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 03:47:48 PM EST
    From where I stand, enlightened religions relying on post-mortem rewards for what you do now are utterly ridiculous.
    Pretty superior comment there Johnny. Oh, it's OK because you're right. I see.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#65)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 03:57:35 PM EST
    Posted by sarcastic unnamed one March 16, 2006 04:47 PM From where I stand, enlightened religions relying on post-mortem rewards for what you do now are utterly ridiculous.
    Pretty superior comment there Johnny. Oh, it's OK because you're right. I see.
    And so much of life is finding what the answer isn't. Thanks for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts. Go in Peace.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#66)
    by Johnny on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 05:05:51 PM EST
    Sarc: LMAo

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#67)
    by Edger on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 07:25:25 PM EST
    Johnny:
    you are all a part of everything and everything is a part of you
    Exactly. Well said, Johnny. I guess it's so hard for most to miss because it's too obvious... to close to the end of the nose and fingertip. Right in front of the eyes for anyone who cares to look.

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#68)
    by Edger on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 07:30:19 PM EST
    correction: "so hard for most to see"

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#69)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:13:07 PM EST
    Unbelievable. I am so sick of this. The Christian right is so brainwashed, I think that it is hindering our society from evolving. Sicko right-wing conservatives like Falwell need to get a swift kick in the ass as far as I'm concerned. How dare he say that someone is not going to go to "heaven" just because they don't believe in an outdated childish, fanatical ideology such as Christianity. The bible is more like a work of fiction that does not make sense and is also a much rather boring story. It is also why we are in a conflict with other countries in the world. Muslims vs Jews, Jews vs Christians, Christians vs Muslims blah blah blah. It is so annoying when someone tries to tell me what is going to happen to me when I die. I can't believe they sit there and say they know! If "God" is some type of loving entity, why wouldn't this entity accept everyone into this biblical paradise called heaven. I think it means more when someone can keep beliefs to themselves and shut the hell up on what their religion means to me. That is the perfect world, which will never exist. Next time some dimwit bible thumper spits out a propaganda shower at my front door, they are going to slap themselves to sleep when I tell them they are out of their domes! Lol. Thank all of your religious zealots for our current war in the middle east. Let's hope their "prayers" to the lord and saviour can get us out of it. I'm glad at least the Jews I know keep their religion to themselves, and they are way better people than these social vampire Christians. They also don't condemn others to hell because they worship Moses and others don't. Those are real people. Non-fanatical Muslims that I know are the same way. Some Christians seem exactly like Muslim extremists without the violence. They intend to throw you into warp fanaticsm until you forget what your convictions are. What a bunch of insane horrible people. Religion stops a thinking mind. Thanks for letting me post if you let me post, v/r B Brogan

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#70)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:34:45 PM EST
    How dare he say that someone is not going to go to "heaven" just because they don't believe in an outdated childish, fanatical ideology such as Christianity.
    Don't you think that heaven is also akin to your description of Christianity? Mostly I agree with you but it is dicey to toot your horn about one religion while calling another's "outdated childish, fanatical ideology".

    Re: Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to He (none / 0) (#71)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:52:40 PM EST
    Squeaky, I wasnt tooting the others religion, was tooting the individuals that I know(not all of them conformed) from the other religions. Heaven is a religious word that everyone recognizes thats why I typed it in that blog. It's intention was to mock the theocracies of neo-christianity. I have no idea what lies beyond death, and I dont think anyone else should tell people what happens to them when they die. Its plain out rude and inconsiderate. I'm glad that at least you agree with me mostly, because it can be a very touchy subject. Best Regards, B

    Jerry Falwell: Jews and Muslims Can't Go to Heaven | 71 comments (71 topical)