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Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His Leak of NIE Report

Think Progress and Firedoglake report:

According to court documents released in the Scooter Libby case, the former chief of staff to the Vice President received "the specific permission of President Bush" to leak a highly classified intelligence document:

"Defendant testified that the Vice President later advised him that the President had authorized defendant to disclose the relevant portions of the NIE. Defendant testified that he also spoke to David Addington, then Counsel to the Vice President, whom defendant considered to be an expert in national security law, and Mr. Addington opined that Presidential authorization to publicly disclose a document amounted to a declassification of the document."

Murray Waas has a new article with more details and analysis. Tom Maguire and Left Coaster have more. Here's a pdf link to Fitzgerald's pleading. I'll update after I've read the documents and articles.

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    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#1)
    by desertswine on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 09:38:02 AM EST
    But they still lied about it.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#2)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 09:58:02 AM EST
    Libby also testified that an administration lawyer told him that Bush, by authorizing the disclosure of classified information, had in effect declassified the information. Legal experts disagree on whether the president has the authority to declassify information on his own.
    Interesting .....Unitary Executive Theory. The implication is that the President or VP can not only instantly make classified documents unclassified but they can also make covert CIA operatives no longer covert just by uttering some magic words. Merlin would be envious at this slight of hand. Can't wait till the one page NIE summary is released/declassified.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#3)
    by desertswine on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 10:44:56 AM EST
    Bush 11Feb04:
    "If there's a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is."
    "If the person has violated law, that person will be taken care of."
    "I welcome the investigation. I am absolutely confident the Justice Department will do a good job."
    "I want to know the truth. Leaks of classified information are bad things."
    My weasel-meter is off the scale.

    He's just lyin' scum on a good day. It goes down hill from there.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#5)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 11:21:26 AM EST
    But, the leak of classified data would "alert the terrorists" wouldnt it? Libby's obviously a BHAW with an ax-to-grind (and an agenda). Dont trust him.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#6)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 11:24:56 AM EST
    Defendant testified that the Vice President later advised him that the President had authorized defendant to disclose the relevant portions of the NIE. Law, shmaw. Law is for suckers. We'll just use one of our all purpose Acme Signing Statements on any law you can think up. --Cheney, "The Dick"

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#7)
    by Dadler on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 11:30:27 AM EST
    And, so far, not a Bush defender anywhere near this thread. Still waiting.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#8)
    by TomStewart on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 11:34:28 AM EST
    Does this mean that Bush will fire himself?

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#9)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 11:36:59 AM EST
    Those talking points oughta be good.

    And, so far, not a Bush defender anywhere near this thread.
    Although I'm not the best fit for the above title, hello. It certainly does make things interesting, doesn't it? It's still tough to explain why he wouldn't have come out and said "I authorized it" but it does render moot the "leak" arugment.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 11:56:47 AM EST
    so far, not a Bush defender anywhere near this thread. They're sitting on their haunches with their front paws in the air and panting with their tongues hanging out while they wait for someone to tell them what they are supposed to pretend they think.

    Dadler: I disagree vehemently about this being an impeachable offense. The president (possibly even the VP) can classify and de-classify at whim. If the president chooses to use a classified piece of information in a speech, it immediately becomes unclassified. The agency involved traditionally has input the final say is the president's and the president's alone. And I agree about new leadership--there is a definate need. Thankfully we have elections every 4 years in the country that give the people the choice to pick whom they would like to lead them.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 12:13:55 PM EST
    Edger, I have said that a thousand times here. It seems they cannot comment until they receive their talking points, which of course demonstrates the lack of independent thought.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 12:22:41 PM EST
    which of course demonstrates the lack of independent thought. J, when they finally wake up they will probably try to characterize the lack of independent thought as "another point of view" as valid as any other. ;-)

    The president (possibly even the VP) can classify and de-classify at whim. If the president chooses to use a classified piece of information in a speech, it immediately becomes unclassified. And you know this how? Where is this power given solely to the President? What if he wanted to leak classified information on when troop ships sailed, or give atomic secrets to the Iranians? And isn't leaking classified information is different than ordering it declassified?

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#17)
    by roxtar on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 12:31:29 PM EST
    " If the president chooses to use a classified piece of information in a speech, it immediately becomes unclassified." Oooh, I'm sorry, that's not correct. According to Bush's own Executive Order of March 25, 2003: 1.1.(b) Classified information shall not be declassified automatically as a result of any unauthorized disclosure of identical or similar information.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#18)
    by Al on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 12:40:16 PM EST
    Chase Littleton's wishful thinking aside, the grounds for impeachment are: Treason, bribery, high crimes and misdemeanors - whatever that means. In Bill Clinton's case, the House Judiciary Committee went forward with four grounds for impeachment: Grand jury perjury, civil suit perjury, obstruction of justice, and abuse of power. Bearing in mind that these all sprang from Clinton's reluctance to talk about a sexual encounter, I would say that Bush is in a very precarious position indeed.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#19)
    by Sailor on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 12:40:51 PM EST
    "Declassification authority" means: (1) the official who authorized the original classification, if that official is still serving in the same position; (2) the originators current successor in function; (3) a supervisory official of either; or (4) officials delegated declassification authority in writing by the agency head or the senior agency official.
    Seems a dubious argument that bush can declassify on a whim. So let's have a trial and see. regardless of his super powers, it's a bad idea to disrupt nat'l security for political purposes, especially having to do with WMDs.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#20)
    by Sailor on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 12:59:37 PM EST
    "The President has set high standards, the highest of standards for people in his administration. He's made it very clear to people in his administration that he expects them to adhere to the highest standards of conduct. If anyone in this administration was involved in it, they would no longer be in this administration." [White House Briefing, 9/29/03]

    "You know, there's a lot of leaking in Washington, DC. It's a town famous for it. And if this helps stop leaks, this investigation in finding the truth, it'll not only hold someone to account who should not have leaked -- and this is a serious charge, by the way. We're talking about a criminal action. But also hopefully we'll help send a clear signal we expect other leaks to stop as well. And so I look forward to finding the truth." [Bush, 10/06/03]


    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#21)
    by Dadler on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 01:22:42 PM EST
    Chase, Forgive me for disagreeing, but the founders built this republic on the notion that nothing can be done by any branch of government, much less any single politician (president or not), on a whim. Separation of powers goes the the very essence of this. If the president has this whim at his disposal you are saying he is above laws that others aren't.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#22)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 01:23:08 PM EST
    The president (possibly even the VP) can classify and de-classify at whim. B***s**t. If indeed that's their latest justification for this crime, what was the purpose of revealing Plame's identity, other than a smear of her husband? How can any self respecting american citzen defend such an act?

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#24)
    by Dadler on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 01:25:36 PM EST
    Che, Indeed. Then why would the White House, or anyone in the executive brance, need to worry about ANYTHING if the president can just poop a "legal" rationale when he wants to?

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#25)
    by Dadler on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 01:30:26 PM EST
    Add Chase, Our election tabulation problems are an entirely different, and gigantic, problem. If it were as easy as every four years we choose and that's that, well, I doubt the last two elections would've resulted in such controversy. But they did, and rightfully. There are still large swaths of this country where election fraud and intimidation are too much the norm.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#26)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 01:34:27 PM EST
    Dadler and Che beat me to it. "He's above laws that others armt." Indeed. I think thats the essence of what our spreaders-of-democracy have been saying right along. "On a whim" is either a very poor choice of words, or, a very telling choice of words - more telling even than leadersh*t.

    high crimes and misdemeanors - whatever that means.
    I believe that the experts in the language of the day translate "high crimes and misdemeanors" as what we call "abuse of power" today.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#28)
    by john horse on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 02:38:03 PM EST
    Per Atrios:
    It's probably reasonable that the president can declassify whatever he wants, or at least I haven't really seen an especially strong argument to the contrary, but that doesn't mean that the president can declassify stuff, show it to Judy Miller, and then turn around claim the stuff is still classified. That's where this argument falls apart.


    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#29)
    by legion on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 02:48:33 PM EST
    Atrios-via-John wins the prize. It is entirely possible that the President has the power to personally classify or declassify information. But it is absolutely untrue that he could do it "on a whim". There must be a documented declassification decision - if not, then the information was illegally leaked - even if Bush himself had done the leaking. Short version: - The leaking of both the NIE info and Plame's identity were federal crimes. - Whether or not he was told to leak any of that information by Bush or Cheney, Libby is still guilty as hell. - George Bush is a dirt-faced liar.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#30)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 03:19:50 PM EST
    I just heard that that bastion of the MSM liberal media Fox has Bush at 36% now.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 03:55:30 PM EST
    et al - Maybe you should consider this:
    The court papers from the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, do not suggest that Mr. Bush violated any law or rule.
    And more:
    MORE: Either Andrew Sullivan can't read, or he can't write:
    Bush Nailed We have a missing link. No, I don't mean the post-fish. I mean the Bush connection in the Plame leak. It turns out that, according to Libby, it was the president who first sanctioned the leak of the NIE data to discredit Joseph Wilson. Money quote: ..."Defendant testified that the vice president later advised him that the president had authorized defendant to disclose the relevant portions of the NIE," the prosecution filing said.
    Emphasis added to what will surely become the rave-up lefty talking point. However, as Mr. Gerstein noted, and as the excerpt printed by Mr. Sullivan makes clear, we *don't know* what Cheney and Bush discussed before Bush authorized the partial disclosure of the NIE. President Bush may have been vitally interested specifically in discrediting Joe Wilson (and rebutting one's critics is not a crime); he may not have heard that name, and simply authorized the disclosure to help with the White House side of the press coverage. That said, Bush's involvement preceded the July 8 meeting with Judy Miller, (p. 19/20 of .pdf), which is not great news. So, was "Bush Nailed" for helping with a White House PR pushback? I'll bet he gets involved with White House message management pretty regularly
    . Link

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#32)
    by Al on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 04:10:25 PM EST
    et al - Maybe you should consider this:
    The court papers from the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, do not suggest that Mr. Bush violated any law or rule.
    PPJ, we don't need someone's opinion on what the court papers say. We can read them for ourselves, thank you.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#33)
    by Dadler on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 04:18:24 PM EST
    Jim, Ask Nixon if it's not a crime to "rebut" one's critics. Bush, in my mind, seems to have taken lessons from Dick in many respects. He's even got two other, even bigger Dicks -- Rove and Cheney -- to help turn those lessons into ugly reality.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#34)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 04:19:30 PM EST
    ppj - Youre taking on alot of water, hope you saved some flares. George and Dick are in the stateroom dressed up as Mrs.Astor and Mrs.Guggenheim.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#35)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 04:33:21 PM EST
    Nixon. Unfortunately, the precedent for how much some rats can get away with with a little tax-break and deregulation grease was Iran Contra. Funny how alot of the Machievellian types umplicated then seem to be hovering around this administration. But, theres alot more (literal)blood in the water now than there was then, and that will probobly make all the difference.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#36)
    by scarshapedstar on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 05:00:58 PM EST
    Excellent catch, roxtar. Thankfully Chase ended that little game of whack-a-mole. I don't see why, though; the President is clearly able to violate his own Executive Orders. Ask PPJ...

    Posted by Chase Tettleton April 6, 2006 01:09 PM Dadler:
    I disagree vehemently about this being an impeachable offense. The president (possibly even the VP) can classify and de-classify at whim. If the president chooses to use a classified piece of information in a speech, it immediately becomes unclassified. The agency involved traditionally has input the final say is the president's and the president's alone. And I agree about new leadership--there is a definate need. Thankfully we have elections every 4 years in the country that give the people the choice to pick whom they would like to lead them.
    Go chase your tail, sport. You don't understand the law any better than you spell. They don't get to declassify and classify on a whim. Poof! What I did is no longer a crime. Abracadabra. By royal decree, what you said is a crime, I banish thee from my kingdom. By all that is Holy, I will reclaim my Father's Throne! That dialog may dovetail real nicely with one of Jim's Errol Flynn flicks, but that's not the way our system of Government works in this Country. Not only does in violate the Constitution. It violates the Magna Carta.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 05:05:12 PM EST
    Sailor - Why a trial? It seems you disproved your own point when you quoted:
    3) a supervisory official of either; or
    The President is about as supervisory as you can ger. legion writes:
    The leaking of both the NIE info and Plame's identity were federal crimes
    . If it was a crime, and if it has been committed, why is Libby not charged with it? I know that is a question you don't want to face, but it won't go away.

    "The court papers from the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, do not suggest that Mr. Bush violated any law or rule." If Mr. Bush did nothing wrong, why didn't he cop to it in the first place and save the time and expense of this investigation. Plus, if it is true that Bush broke no law, I believe he did what he did for political purposes, to further his own agenda and it makes me puke, he makes me puke.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 05:08:52 PM EST
    Dadler - Breaking into buildings is a crime. So is leaking NSA information.. You guys are chasing your tails. Enjoy the run, but you still wind up in the same spot.

    Fine. Charge the lot of 'em. If Shrub's in bracelets, he's not pardoning anybody. Ditto for Darth and right on down the line. Every damned day it's somethin' with these shmendricks. It takes the Duke Lacrosse Team to keep them off the front page. If it's not delay, it's brian doyle, if it's not brian doyle, it's shrub himself making it official what everyone already knew. That he's lyin' scum. That he authorized this leak. That he's spent the last 2 years feverishly looking for himself. Dead or alive. The former works better than the latter for me your highness.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#42)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 05:21:21 PM EST
    Just remember Jim: you never defended Bush.

    Fine. Charge the lot of 'em. If Shrub's in bracelets, he's not pardoning anybody. Ditto for Darth and right on down the line. Every damned day it's somethin' with these shmendricks. It takes the Duke Lacrosse Team to keep them off the front page. If it's not delay, it's brian doyle, if it's not brian doyle, it's shrub himself making it official what everyone already knew. That he's lyin' scum. That he authorized this leak. That he's spent the last 2 years feverishly looking for himself. Dead or alive. The former works better than the latter for me your highness.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#44)
    by Strick on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 05:21:56 PM EST
    People aren't responding to this because the whole notion of calling what we're discussing here a "leak" is nonsense. The President can no more authorize a leak of information decides to declassify (and the WHOLE NIE report was formally declassified just days after this) than he can authorize the Federal Reserve to counterfeit currency they're legally entitled to print. The lie in this is in the NY Times headline that call this a leak. What they should have said is that Libby was authorized to give their own reporter a scoop. That's all this is and nothing more.

    You guys are chasing your tails. Enjoy the run, but you still wind up in the same spot.
    Yeah, the one where shrub tells scooter to leak from the NIE.

    If there's a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is." Sorta like OJ vowing to track down his ex-wife's killer.

    Nah, it's worse. As bad as OJ is, it's not like he's a real threat to kill again. How many IEDs? How many car bombs? How many troops? How many kids do you figure Shrub's gotten killed since you made that observation, Molly?

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#48)
    by scarshapedstar on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 07:21:05 PM EST
    On the plus side, Bush never made the Naked Gun movies seem kinda creepy.

    You guys are chasing your tails. Enjoy the run, but you still wind up in the same spot.
    Yeah, in a crazy ass country led by a lying dumbass.

    gentlyweepingguitar is right Bush should have admitted what happened. Bush and Cheney were hiding what they were up to. Now why would they do that? Hey, Jim. It appears there might have been wiretapping of domestic to domestic calls.
    Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales suggested on Thursday for the first time that the president might have the legal authority to order wiretapping without a warrant on communications between Americans that occur exclusively within the United States.


    Posted by scarshapedstar April 6, 2006 08:21 PM
    On the plus side, Bush never made the Naked Gun movies seem kinda creepy.
    Yeah, but wasn't that kinda neutralized by seein' him fall down the stairs and outta the upper deck?

    May I suggest the following standard response that is easy to copy, and will serve just fine for most posts by PPJ: NO JIM, YOUR ASSUMPTIONS ARE FALSE. EVERYONE ELSE CAN SEE THAT BUSH IS A LIAR. BUT WE KNOW YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO ADMIT IT YET, SO COME BACK WHEN YOU SEE THE LIGHT. Formatted thus, like an official government warning, most people will not even have to waste any time reading it.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#53)
    by Edger on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 11:37:35 PM EST
    Cymro, All he wants is a response. Any kind of response. Even that. What he can't stand is to be dismissed as irrellevant. Give him no response at all. To anything. Leave him in the position of having to scream for attention. Give him no response at all.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 11:59:54 PM EST
    Its worse than "he dosnt want to admit it" he thinks all the lies are necessary and for a good cause. Just like those Straussian whackjobs.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#55)
    by DonS on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 06:07:22 AM EST
    There are trolls, and there are quintessential trolls. Its always all about them. An occasional "special" troll stays within the posting guidelines of the generous host here. And since this is a "civil" site, one cannot really render such trolls their due. Best advice, as above: ignore such trolls. Due to their overabundance of ego, they will not likely fade away, but you will be saving your own precious adrenalin, and generally not perpetuating even more ignorance. I recommend an occasional tweak of such trolls merely to remind them of their pesky, mousquito-like nature. I have sometimes thought a ban-the-troll fundraiser would be hugely successful, though not in the spirit of democracy and open forums that such trolls ironically mock by their very existence.

    Charlie: You're so cute when you're wrong. It might have been a stretch for me to say the President can declassify "on a whim" but the effect is the same: when the President decides to disclose something, anything, it is no longer classified. Period. There is no legitimate discussion to the contrary. You can certainly wax at length about how it was a silly idea to disclose the NIE excerpts to Miller alone (it was) and how it is quite unbecoming to pretend to not know the source (it is) but you're barking up a tall tree when you act like there is a course of legal action here. But keep playing the opposition role -- it fits you well. God forbid you actually have to one day propose some kind of affirmative agenda rather than blindly criticize the policy of the majority party.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#57)
    by Edger on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 06:32:22 AM EST
    blindly criticize the policy of the majority party? Yep, "blindly" was a good choice of words.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#58)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 06:51:20 AM EST
    Cymro, Edger, et al - It has been my observation that you don't want a debate, what you want is an echo chamber. That is typical of people with weak positions. Your actions remind me of a bunch of old men setting around the barber shop of my youth complaining about Truman when half the county didn't have electricty or running water. And, as I have commented time and again, that is sad because we have some deep problems in this country that can not be addressed due to your actions so completely turning off many people to these problems. Said another way, your actions have made "Liberal" a dirty word to many people. And that is a damn shame. Perhaps in some future Open Thread we can pick some problem, say health care, and you can present your solutions. It will be interesting to see your actual performance in the arena of ideas that extends beyond, "I hate Bush. America bad. Western civilization corrupt...."

    The role of the Opposition Party is to OPPOSE chase, not to save your sorry butts - AGAIN - or bail out your intellectually bankrupt brain trusts while they rattle around like a BB in a boxcar. You can thank Thomas Dewey for the first part of that. Look, you're scared. You're up against it. You're whistlin' past the graveyard. I understand. You do what you've got to do. Once again, nice try, chase. There's a declassification process. He doesn't get to declassify on the spot to get his - or his minions' - sorry butts out of legal jeopardy. None of this now it's against the law, now it's not, nonsense. You and darth dick can give me this unitary executive shtick all ya want, I'm still not buyin' it. He still ain't king and he still ain't fuhrer and just 'cause you loons in the sig heil set buy his act, don't mean I've got to. No sale.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#60)
    by DonS on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 07:04:04 AM EST
    Oh yeah, for the newer comers: regarding the wisdom, intellectual honesty and humility of trolls. Believe it or not, there are actually trolls on this board who have been here since cheerleading for the invasion of Iraq, mocking those who called for caution and who questioned the existence of WMD's, and touting their own military credentials as evidence of, well, I never figured out just what! To my reckoning, such trolls have never acknowledged their error, their crediulity, or that they may have been duped. So, substantively speaking, when it comes to the authoritative pronouncements of trolls, regard the source, and their history. I'd apologize for being off topic but, really, where do you draw the line in the matrix of lies, spins and coverups employed by the cabal and its apologists?

    Charlie: I'll slap down a Hamilton that the "unitary executive theory" prevails here. Just a hunch. And I wouldn't say the GOP is "up against it" quite yet. There are a number of problems the GOP must address. But the Democrats are doing an embarrassingly poor job in striking while the iron is hot. Is there leadership on the left side of the debate? Is there a unified voice proficiently picking about the GOP for its mistakes and missteps? Is there any single individual who is electable in 2008 at this point (save Obama who won't run)? No. Personally, I'm one good leader away from jumping climbing aboard the Demo train. But why the hell would I... there's no conductor.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#62)
    by Sailor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 07:38:27 AM EST
    as I have commented time and again, that is sad because we have some deep problems in this country that can not be addressed due to your actions so completely turning off many people to these problems.
    funny, rethugs own the 3 branches and the media, but it's the dems' fault. It's you guys who have ruined this country; elevating prez to king, torture, unconstitutional policies, governance byincompetence and corruption, don't you dare blame the we who have been calling attention to this since day one!

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#63)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 07:41:23 AM EST
    Said another way, your actions have made "Liberal" a dirty word to many people
    The only thing that makes the word "liberal" seem dirty to me is when you, old man, refer to yourself as one--kind of gives me the shivers.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#64)
    by Edger on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 07:45:38 AM EST
    All he wants is a response. Of any kind...

    Nice try, Chase. The Democrats' World renowned ability to never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity has nothing to do with the sleaziness and even sleazierness of the republican party. They're totally separate issues. I will not pretend to not find the Democrats lack of focus annoying at times. Then I look at that kukluxkristiantaliban operation you guys are goose steppin' to and I thank my lucky stars. If you wanna buy the modern day equivalent of "the Russians have Berlin surrounded, the Fuhrer has them exactly where he wants them," be my guest. I'm not buyin' it for a minute.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#66)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 08:00:45 AM EST
    All he wants is a response. Of any kind...
    As I have said before, he's just a harmless old man. He kind of brightens up my day, to tell you the truth. Something I can always count on: the sun coming up, a morning cup of java, a hug from my little boy, and some amusing inanity from the old man.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#67)
    by Edger on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 08:03:59 AM EST
    :-)

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:36:36 AM EST
    Peaches - Sweetie, I see that you also have joined the "know nothing parade." That is, nothing but how to complain, with never any actual solutions. Enjoy the ride, but watch Edger, he get's a litte grouchy from time to time. Sailor - The problem, as I am sure you know, is that the outlandish national defense posture of the Left outrages people. Ditto the PC nonsense always being passed around. So when someone says, "Fix health care," the Right immediately says, "See! The Liberals want you to have to wait, etc., etc." And since Liberal is a dirty word, the Right wins.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#69)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:55:31 AM EST
    "Outrages people" Who? Everyone in your militia? "Liberal is a dirty word" Has nothing whatsoever to do with a hundred Rush clones on the radio around the country saying "liberals bad, liberals hate America" 24/7 for the last ten years. Gingrich himself said we're having talk radio elections now. And before you give me that "the sheeple have spoken", take another look at those poll numbers.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#70)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:58:14 AM EST
    The trouble, as in our concious moments we all know, is that we are terrifyingly ignorant. The most learned of us are ignorant.
    --Wendell Berry

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#71)
    by Edger on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:16:22 PM EST
    Berry was never one with much patience for blinders: The land bears the scars Of minds whose history Was imprinted by no example Of fore bearing mind, corrected Beloved.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#72)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:25:07 PM EST
    PPJ-Looks like you were right all along. Plame was not covert. Since Bush couldn't, wouldn't, ever do something so damaging to America during wartime as release the name of a covert agent working on non-proliferation of WMD's he simply changed her status to non-covert. Now we know that he could do so just by his mere utterance of her name combined with the words non-covert. Besides it was "in the public interest" to change her status and let America know how someone on the US payroll and her once esteemed Diplomat husband were in fact Saddam sympathizers. I hear that our unit (short for unitary president) does great card tricks as well.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#73)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:17:45 PM EST
    Jondee - Thanks for making my point. I mean, where do you think the clones come from? Peaches - Ignorant of what? We can't yet cure all cancers, but Polio has been beat. Is your glass half full or half empty? I spent my early years in poverty. I now spend my days in luxurious recline in the Palatial Retirement Compound. Squeaky - I am cheered that you understand that Mrs. Wilson wasn't covert, and that the President can declassiffy what he deems need to be per the information provided by Sailor.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#74)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:34:50 PM EST
    I now spend my days in luxurious recline in the Palatial Retirement Compound. Good for you, old man. Only in America, Right?

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#75)
    by squeaky on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:36:04 PM EST
    Now it is ever so clear why Daniel Pipes, Michael Leeden et al opine that war is the most natural state of man and given the option they would have war rather than peace. PPJ fits into the scheme like hand in glove.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#76)
    by Sailor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 03:06:28 PM EST
    outlandish national defense posture of the Left outrages people.
    yeah, all 30% percent of you wackos
    Overall, the poll results indicate only 30% of the public approves of the Republican Congress and by a huge 49-33 margin, voters now want Democrats to control Congress. According to GOP pollster Tony Fabrizio, "These numbers are scary. We´ve lost every advantage we´ve ever had.
    Note, I'm not saying repubs are wackos, only those that persist in making America less safe due to putting politics over security. So, when did a Dem ever do that?

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#77)
    by Edger on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 05:41:06 PM EST
    Bush Responds to Libby Accusations: "Screw it, We all did it!"
    A White House spokesperson, who wished to remain anonymous, expressed that the administration anticipated a slow news day on Friday, and had confidence that the issue would dissolve over the weekend by the time the Sunday morning news shows had concluded. "President Bush is relieved to be free of the burden of the deception that he has had to maintain for a number of years for national security reasons," said the spokesperson. "While the loss of Mrs. Plame's undercover status is regrettable, the president is unapologetic about his decision to sacrifice her... this is what great leaders must be able to do without hesitation."
    The Big Picture.

    Posted by JimakaPPJ April 7, 2006 07:51 AM
    Cymro, Edger, et al - It has been my observation that you don't want a debate, what you want is an echo chamber. That is typical of people with weak positions. And, as I have commented time and again, that is sad because we have some deep problems in this country that can not be addressed due to your actions so completely turning off many people to these problems.
    It is my observation that you have poor powers of observation and that you are under the misguided impression that merely saying something over and over again makes it so. It doesn't.

    Posted by JimakaPPJ April 7, 2006 02:17 PM
    Jondee - Thanks for making my point. I mean, where do you think the clones come from?
    Under that big rock. Ya know, back by the septic tank. Where the grass is so thick and lush.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#80)
    by Edger on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 06:30:27 PM EST
    Fri Apr 7, 9:58 AM ET. WASHINGTON
    President Bush's approval ratings hit a series of new lows in an AP-Ipsos poll that also shows Republicans surrendering their advantage on national security -- grim election-year news for a party struggling to stay in power. ... As bad as Bush's numbers may be, Congress' are worse. Just 30 percent of the public approves of the GOP-led Congress' job performance, and Republicans seem to be shouldering the blame. "These numbers are scary. We've lost every advantage we've ever had," GOP pollster Tony Fabrizio said. "The good news is Democrats don't have much of a plan. The bad news is they may not need one."


    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#81)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 06:33:50 PM EST
    Peaches - Actually I do jet out to the coast quite frequently... First Class, of course. And yes, only in America...when Preparation meets Opportunity flavored with Perspiration.. what some people call Luck. ;-) charlie - Well, I have never heard the rantings of many on the Left so vividly and accurately described, but hey, who am I to argue with an ex-St Louis Brown player...(Not) Why do I keep thinking of the St Louis Browns when I see your name? BTW - Stay in the game for awhile and you may actually learn to observe. Sailor - I'll bet you a $50 contribution to Talk Left that the Repubs retain control of the House and Senate. Squeaky - Well, as FDR opined... "I do not want war. Elanor doesn't war...But if it is war they want, it is war they will get.."

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#82)
    by Edger on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 06:52:42 PM EST
    The Truth About Lewis "Scooter" Libby's Statements to the Grand Jury Claiming the President Authorized a Leak of Classified Information: The President and Vice President Are Not In the Clear Yet By JOHN W. DEAN, Friday, Apr. 07, 2006
    From a political perspective, separate from the illegality, there is the hypocrisy: The Bush Administration has prosecuted and sent to jail officials who leaked far less serious information - as I discussed in detail in a prior column. It is actively, and currently, threatening to prosecute others who have leaked information about the president's illegal electronic surveillance of Americans.


    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#83)
    by Sailor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 07:16:07 PM EST
    I try never to wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty and the pig loves it.

    The exercise of comparing what Mr. Dean has had to say on the subject at various points in the past, vs. the various wingnut rantings that were posted here contemporaneously, is left to the student.

    Why do I keep thinking of the St Louis Browns when I see your name?
    Well, seein' how the Browns have been the Orioles since 1954, Jim, I'd say it means you're livin' in the past.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#86)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:29:50 PM EST
    Actually, he was thinking of Mordecai "Three Finger" Brown.

    Now you're goin' way back. He pitched on the last Cubs team to win a World Series, 1908. He hasn't pitched in the Bigs since '16. Mordecai 3-finger Brown isn't in Cooperstown for nothin', but that doesn't change the fact that our Jim's livin' in the past.

    Re: Fitz Filing: Libby Said Bush Authorized His L (none / 0) (#88)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 08:04:28 AM EST
    Sailor - You apparently know much more about pig wrestling than I. charlie - I know, but they are the only major league team who sent a midget to the plate... And he didn't get a hit..