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Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Online

By Jeralyn, Section War on Terror
Posted on Mon May 22, 2006 at 09:45:39 AM EST
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Wired Magazine today published the documents of whistleblower Mark Klein, the chief witness for EFF in its suit against AT&T for furnishing customer records to the NSA.

AT&T claims information in the file is proprietary and that it would suffer severe harm if it were released. Based on what we've seen, Wired News disagrees. In addition, we believe the public's right to know the full facts in this case outweighs AT&T's claims to secrecy.

As a result, we are publishing the complete text of a set of documents from the EFF's primary witness in the case, former AT&T employee and whistle-blower Mark Klein -- information obtained by investigative reporter Ryan Singel through an anonymous source close to the litigation. The documents, available on Wired News as of Monday, consist of 30 pages, with an affidavit attributed to Klein, eight pages of AT&T documents marked "proprietary," and several pages of news clippings and other public information related to government-surveillance issues.

The documents are here (pdf). Wired notes, "The full AT&T documents are filed under seal in federal court in San Francisco." More on Wired's decision here.

< Behind the NSA Warrantless Surveillance Program | Karl Rove and Fitzgerald's Timing >

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    Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Online | 24 comments (24 topical)
    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#1)
    by scribe on Mon May 22, 2006 at 10:47:08 AM EST
    I guess that really kicks that whole "State Secrets" argument in the teeth, no?

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#2)
    by aw on Mon May 22, 2006 at 10:58:59 AM EST
    AT&T claims information in the file is proprietary and that it would suffer severe harm if it were released.
    If AT&T's customers don't have any proprietorship over their own lives or might suffer severe harm if their info was released to the government, then all I can say to them is, Welcome to the Club.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Mon May 22, 2006 at 11:12:31 AM EST
    I guess that really kicks that whole "State Secrets" argument in the teeth, no?
    alas, there are plenty of dentures to go round.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 22, 2006 at 11:17:43 AM EST
    Kudos to Wired's guts and service to us all.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#5)
    by squeaky on Mon May 22, 2006 at 11:37:39 AM EST
    From Wired:
    The court's gag order is very specific in barring only the EFF, its representatives and its technical experts from discussing and disseminating this information. The court explicitly rejected AT&T's motion to include Klein in the gag order and declined AT&T's request to force the EFF to return the documents.
    Wired is trying to get the bogus seal lifted. Although Wired did a good thing here by publishing the docs, it doesn't seem as if they are challenging anything by their publication of Klein's docs. What they published is not under seal. Ironically it may be the same material under seal but how could wired ever know that without seeing what cannot be seen?

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#6)
    by james on Mon May 22, 2006 at 12:02:39 PM EST
    Finally.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 22, 2006 at 03:24:33 PM EST
    Thank providence we have Wired News, the Monolithic investigative journalism powerhouse with insanely deep pockets, to counterbalance the government conspiracy of shadow and secrecy. Surely no other media corporation had the tenacity, the experience, or the sheer manpower to lay siege upon that rather small, impervious Executive Branch and the Telecoms. Maybe one day, when they develop the talent base, the revenues, and the circulation, media organizations like CNN, The New York Times, and Washington Post can become the Stalwart defender of the public interest that WIRED NEWS is today.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 22, 2006 at 03:51:14 PM EST
    et al - I again return to my previous comments that what Klien has said is covered up with quailfiers. "I believe" is not "I know." I also note that his claim of a vacuum cleaner is undoubtedly true, but now it is necessary to understand something of a technical nature. There is no other way to look at specific conversation/data stream than by starting out looking at all of them. Think of it as a bundle of straw, each a different color. First you must look at the bundle for the one straw you want, say "red." You can then look at "red." To be more specific, at a major hub, an OC192 (10 gig) optical transport system would be carrying 192 DS3's of 672 DS0's each, which is a 64kb voice conversation that means you have 192 x 672 or 129,024 conversations. It would be part of a Dense Wave Division Multiplexing - DWDM - system that would have 16, or more, OC192's or 2,064,389 conversations. Within the bit stream, the particular information you want is there and can be accessed on an as needed basis. Said another way you tell the system what you want, and reject all else. If a warrant was needed, the warrant would give that information, the bit stream isolated, accessed and monitored. All of the other bit streams would NOT be accessed. Could the system look at all inn real time? Yes. But that was true of monitoring systems 100 years ago. The difference is merely technology. But it isn't that easy. You would need a fearsome computer to look at over 2,000,000 conversations in real time. You could store it and look at it slower, but think of storing 160 gbs PER Second. That's some awesome hard drive needed... ;-) (1 gig is a 1000 billion.) So all of his technical specs prove nothing and mean nothing. They are tools. If you believe the government has, or will, use them improperly, you will drink the kool aid. What has not been proven is that warrantless purely domestic monitoring is happening. i.e. Calls between US persons within the US. And, as I noted before, I would like to know more about the politics of Klien, his relationship with ATT and what organizations he belongs to. If that sounds snarky, so be it. He uses too many qualifiers amd makes too many claims of expertise to avoid examination for motive and actual knowledge. And I am making no claims. Just saying it would be reasonable to look at the messenger, who could be good as gold.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#9)
    by squeaky on Mon May 22, 2006 at 03:55:44 PM EST
    Here is an article from Slate discussing how regularly the courts will disallow evidence because of state secrecy. A disturbing trend. Regarding " United States v. Reynolds, the Supreme Court decision first recognizing the legitimacy of a state secrets privilege" 1953
    Citing the presence of this top-secret equipment, the government refused to turn over the documents, claiming that doing so would jeopardize national security. The Supreme Court upheld the government's refusal, and the state secrets privilege was born. As it turns out, the documents didn't really back up the Air Force's claims. In 2000, the children of the original plaintiffs got hold of the reports their mothers had sought when the documents became declassified. Nothing in these documents appeared to bear at all on national security. They were, however, filled with evidence of negligence, all of which was nicely summarized by the Air Force's straightforward conclusion that "the aircraft is not considered to have been safe for flight." link via war & peace

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 22, 2006 at 06:37:19 PM EST
    PPJ, since part of the info is under seal, it is premature to come out against his version of things, so for you to do so is par for the course. As for your wondering about his background, I find it risible that you always believe that anyone who does something that is anti-malAdminstration they probably have 'an agenda' or in someway can be discredited and therefore ignored. This is a pattern that anyone can verify by looking through the archives , so as they say, the exercise is left to the student.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 22, 2006 at 08:04:17 PM EST
    Dark Avenger - You are always in a risible state. I trust that aids your digestion and improves your reading ability, something that desperately needs attention. My comments were:
    et al - I again return to my previous comments that what Klien has said is covered up with quailfiers. "I believe" is not "I know."
    You might note that Klein's comments were expanded in the link to Wired, provided in the post, and subject link contained the previous comments via link. I trust the above is not too complex for you. I also recommend you read the posts rather than going for snarky comments. But, given the lowly state of your talents, I understand. And, given that your complaint is that I do not address the "sealed documents," it is obvious that complex situations escape you. Simpler: You can't address what is sealed. You can address what was said and then restated. That is what I did. Given your confusion on the above I have no doubt that my technical overview of the equipment installed and the problems involved with mass monitoring was completely beyond you. Simpler and just for you: It would be so big it would be almost impossible on a mass basis. But not on individuals. My comments re his background are spot on and not unreasonable for anyone to ask in such situations. BTW - If you need further technical assistance I am available at my ususal fee of $300 dollars per hour or $2000 per week, plus all expenses, including First Class airfare, luxury class car rental and lodging at a Sheraton or better class hotel. I no longer do International, so don't ask. et al - In a previous thread several of you commented about the fact that there were too many "back and forths." My apologies, but I grow weary of Dark Avenger's inaccurate and snarky comments. I made a good faith comment trying to point out the technical details and the difficulties thereof, but concluding that it could be done and that while I have questions about Klein, he could be "good as gold." I think my comment deserved better than having to put up with his attack.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Mon May 22, 2006 at 08:51:26 PM EST
    Ladies and gentlemen, for your profound amusement, I give you the most amazing, logic defying .... da,da,da Daaaa! The Icredible spinnning, putrefying, maggot infested, corpse of IRONY!
    I think my comment deserved better than having to put up with his attack.
    In context, this commenters rant was begun by:
    I trust that aids your digestion and improves your reading ability, something that desperately needs attention.
    and
    I trust the above is not too complex for you.
    and
    But, given the lowly state of your talents, I understand.
    and
    it is obvious that complex situations escape you.
    'nuff said!

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Mon May 22, 2006 at 10:00:05 PM EST
    Another breathtaking example of petulent hypocrisy. It's no wonder he is a big fan of the current administration.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon May 22, 2006 at 10:29:43 PM EST
    You can address what was said and then restated. That is what I did.
    It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data.
    Arthur Conan Doyle And, you have no data about Kleins' political leanings, so your flights of fantasy have to be called back by the control tower of reality. Given your confusion on the above I have no doubt that my technical overview of the equipment installed and the problems involved with mass monitoring was completely beyond you. I take your 'technical overview' with a grain of salt, since you yourself have stated on past threads here that your 'expertise' in this field is 2 to 3 years out of date, so your table of charges is appropriate for a currency like Monopoly money or stone tables from the Island of Yap, which is where you seem to be taking us a lot of the time. And yes, it's completely beyond me why you waste bandwidth telling me how stupid I am and how low I should feel. You've done this so much that you're probably qualified to be an IMAX projectionist given the experience you've accumulated posting here. I grow weary of Dark Avenger's inaccurate and snarky comments. Sounds like you're staying up past your bedtime, PPJ. How you try to make that my fault is amusing and futile, the usual result of your carefully crafted faults here. TTFN, and do switch back to Postum, caffeine makes your posts more boring and witless than usual, and half the snark to boot! That's not how to earn your Rove points, young man.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sailor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 06:38:26 AM EST
    I'd take ppj's tech knowledge with more salt than Lot's wife. In some long ago comment He stated the freq of the light in the fibre optic lines was in the GHz! Silly, that's how fast the light is modulated, not the wavelength!

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#16)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 23, 2006 at 06:45:54 AM EST
    300 an hour or 2k a week? 2k a week is 50 an hour. That is quite the discount. Sounds to me like PPJ is ready for a LaCrosse party...

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 23, 2006 at 07:57:16 AM EST
    et al - I see my appeal for reason has failed, which is no surprise. Oh well, we will now return to our regular programming. Dark Avenger - You continue to press a claim that is false. My comments specified Klein's original comments and, as stated above, were covered in the Wired link and in the link in Wired to his original remarks, which were also posted here within the last three weeks. I have not been employed by a specific company in several years, as I have stated. But here again your desire to attack rather than read betrays you. SONETOC192 came on line in the late 90's as did DWDM and was deployed by Qwest LD, Global Crossing, MCI, ATT and other companies. Lower speeds were deployed beginning in the early 90's. If you are really interested, I refer you to the ANSI specifications shown, especially those on payload, DCC protocol and OAM&P. It is hardly "new" technology. According to Klein, the equipment in question was installed in:
    I also saw design documents dated Jan. 13, 2004 and Jan. 24, 2003, which,
    As to Klein's background, I again note that in matters of speculation, which is what his comments are, it is necessary to know the individual's background. jl - Consultants charge higher rates for hourly work. edger and I have both noted the relationships between consumer and consultants. For you I will require payment in advance by bank draft, US funds only. No alcohol or controlled substances will be allowed. ;-) sailor - And good o for you remembering my use of ghz. Now: The bit rate is how fast the light "shutter" is opened/closed. Wavelength refers to the light itself. And
    The two basic quantitites which describe a light wave are the frequency f, of the wave (usually given in hertz, HZ, or cycles per second), and the wavelength, . These quantities are related to each other and to the speed of light c,
    DWDM works by combining and transmitting multiple signals simultaneously at different wavelengths on the same fiber
    . Here is another link that expalins the relationship between wavelength and frequency (Hz). Included is a statement that explains why frequency is important in when light wavelengths are transported over non-vacumm mediums such as FO cable. As you can see, wavelength and frequency are inter-related. Want some hypertension medicine to go with all that salt? Et al - I close this by noting that my comments of last evening provided some technical information on how Klein could be right, and I also showed the difficulty, especially in "vacuum" applications. I expressed skepticism of Klein, but concluded that he could be "good as gold." I received not a single response about the subject matter, just inaccurate claims. You don't want a debate. You want an echo chamber.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#18)
    by Sailor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 08:54:51 AM EST
    how funny is that? ppj claiming to appeal to reason while he continues his personally insulting diatribes. ppj, stop lying about what you said regarding the facts of FO transmission. You have proved yourself technically incompetent in that field.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 23, 2006 at 11:39:11 AM EST
    sailor - You continually call people liars, yet you never provide proof. What does that make you? BTW - What technical point do you care to refute? We have Tuesday's Open Thread. Let the show begin!

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 12:30:58 PM EST
    You continue to press a claim that is false. My comments specified Klein's original comments and, as stated above, were covered in the Wired link and in the link in Wired to his original remarks, which were also posted here within the last three weeks. And since you don't know what the sealed info is, any conclusions based only on the Wired article are preliminary and incomplete, and that is something you can't get past. As for the references, you'd assmble 10,000 links and references showing the sun rises in the West if it served your invariant BAK position. As to Klein's background, I again note that in matters of speculation, which is what his comments are, it is necessary to know the individual's background. You mean, like he belongs to an American-hating Leftist group like the ACLU or something? It's about as relevant as the base lie you spread here that you're a social liberal, just like Fred Phelps is representative of the Democratic party cause that's how he's registered. I received not a single response about the subject matter, just inaccurate claims Funny, the same thing happened when we posted about evolution PPJ, perhaps I'm not technically qualified to evauate your data, but I can point out that unless you know what kind for stuff the NSA has been developing lo these last two years or even before then(they didn't let you in on the loop about that kind of stuff, did they? Didn't think so.) As for echo chamber, that's what you do for aWol around here. If you truly wanted to debate it on these technical points you raise, you could find a place that has more folks who are qualified to discuss the issue, as the fact that you haven't been debated on the facts could be that there's no one who felt qualified to tackle your arguments, not that they couldn't be answered. Remember, lack of evidence isn't conclusive, as Rumsfeld once said.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 04:50:31 PM EST
    it seems increasingly obvious that what this mal-administration is feverishly working on is to limit the quality and quantity of critical information that we have access to; hence, the not too hard to discern use of TIA and its spawn: find out who is releasing and making available this information and remove them from the process, e.g., the Atty Gen's warning that he seeks to prosecute journalists for "leaking" "classified" information. Thanks TL for maintaning the integrity of this vital conduit of critical information by providing a link to Wired's release of Mark Klein's information which tersely shows the nature of the violation in the "splitting" and re-routing the optical information, i.e., the flagrant breaching of the integrity of our information conduit.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 23, 2006 at 06:14:46 PM EST
    Dark Avenger writes:
    And since you don't know what the sealed info is, any conclusions based only on the Wired article are preliminary and incomplete, and that is something you can't get past.
    I wrote:
    Dark Avenger - You continue to press a claim that is false. My comments specified Klein's original comments and, as stated above, were covered in the Wired link and in the link in Wired to his original remarks, which were also posted here within the last three weeks.
    I have made no speculation regarding what is sealed; only what Klein has said.
    perhaps I'm not technically qualified to evauate your data, but I can point out that unless you know what kind for stuff the NSA has been developing lo these last two years
    You can remove the qualifier "perhaps." I made no claim and did not reference any of the monitoring equipment although Klein did mention several specific types. My comments addressed the transport equipment being monitored, and the technology involved to show the difficulty of the task, especially for "vacuum" cleaner type monitoring, although I showed how it could be done quite easily on a low number of calls. Your attacks just demonstrate your desire to be disagreeable. As for "who" Klein is, I voiced my belief that this is a reasonable question when someone is making "claims" that have so many "qualifiers." "I believe" is not "I know." But even there I held out that he could be, "good as gold." Yet you challenge me on that issue. I would guess that you do so because you suspect that Klein's current background includes a host of activities and associations that would reveal someone who could be biased. As for "debating" the technical issues on "technical" sites, there is nothing to debate. All of the technical transport information is well known and based on SONET and DWDM national standards. Perhaps you should re-read some of the technical links.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 23, 2006 at 06:18:20 PM EST
    phi x174 writes:
    i.e., the flagrant breaching of the integrity of our information conduit.
    Does that bother you? Well let me scare you to death. Such breaching occurs in thousands of Add Drop Multiplexers all over the country.

    Re: Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Onl (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue May 23, 2006 at 08:57:22 PM EST
    PPJ, I never said that you based your speculation on what was sealed, merely that your speculations are necessarily incomplete with or without the Klein remarks that you think make a difference here. Anyway, screaming on top of your lungs "I won!" isn't what folks call winning, YMMV. TTFN

    Wired News Publishes Sealed AT&T Documents Online | 24 comments (24 topical)