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Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride

Is James Taranto serious? Yesterday he railed on Helen Thomas.

The Crazy Old Princess Bride in the Attic
From yesterday's White House briefing with Press Secretary Tony
Snow:

Helen Thomas: Why did the President pick a man [Karl Zinsmeister] who is so contemptible of the public servants in Washington to be his adviser--saying, "People in Washington are morally repugnant, cheating, shifty human beings"? Why would he pick such a man to be a domestic adviser?

Snow: You meant contemptuous, as opposed to contemptible, I think.

From "The Princess Bride" (1987):

Inigo Montoya: You are sure nobody's follow' us?

Vizzini: As I told you, it would be absolutely, totally, and in all other ways inconceivable. . . .

Vizzini: Inconceivable. . . .

[Vizzini has just cut the rope The Dread Pirate Roberts is climbing up]

Vizzini: He didn't fall? Inconceivable.

Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

In all seriousness, given how much trouble she has with the English language, what is Helen Thomas doing in the White House?

A more appropriate question in that regard would be what is George W. Bush doing in the White House.

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    from answers.com: con·tempt·i·ble 1. Deserving of contempt; despicable. 2. Obsolete. Contemptuous.

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#3)
    by Slado on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 01:40:33 PM EST
    The only reason Helen Thomas is still allowed in the press room is no one has the nerve to be the person that asks her to leave. Can anyone seriously make a case that she should be there?

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#4)
    by Slado on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 01:41:28 PM EST
    TL A majority of the popular vote and winning the electoral college is why Bush is in the Whitehouse.

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#5)
    by cpinva on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 01:49:26 PM EST
    gee slado, apparently you've been out of the universe since 1999, gore won the popular vote in the 2000 election. it was the USC that decided, outside the parameters of their jurisidiction, otherwise. you were saying? helen thomas is one of the last remaining real journalists covering the wh. she has actual standing, based on a body of real work, unlike most of the twits she's forced to share oxygen and space with. slado, truly guy, if your going to act the troll, you really must do better.

    cpinva... gore won the popular vote in the 2000 election. it was the USC that decided, outside the parameters of their jurisidiction, otherwise LOL..who has been out of the universe? No really,... try reading something other than left wing blogs all the time...

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#7)
    by aw on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 02:24:39 PM EST
    In all seriousness, given how much trouble she has with the English language, what is Helen Thomas doing in the White House?
    The actual content of her question about Zinsmeister is ignored, natch.

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#8)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 02:34:06 PM EST
    SOP wrongwinger smear tactic, argue over the comma and ignore the content. We should all be glad Helen Thomas is in the press pool, she's held every admin's feet to the fire and she's about the only one who remembers when reporters weren't part of the WH press team.

    "Can anyone seriously make a case that she should be there?" Her credentials are better than Jeff Gannons.

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#10)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 02:55:42 PM EST
    BTW, Al Gore did win the pop vote in 2000.

    And Kerry did win Ohio. You mouth-breathers can yell and scream all you want but the facts are that the Ohio electoral process ranks as one of the dirtiest ever in American history. There isn't any question about what happened. Only what we are gonna do next. And for those of you who are happy with President 'Dead Meat' why...enjoy your minority status. 29% and headed down. Yeah.

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#12)
    by dutchfox on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 03:44:50 PM EST
    Rolling Stone has an article in the upcoming issue by RFK, Jr. on the Ohio election. (I don't know if it's at your newsagents yet.)

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#13)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 04:17:55 PM EST
    ditchfox-The RFK article is online at Rolling Stonet Looks juicy.

    To illustrate the significant differences of usage between contemptible and contemptuous: Tony Snow and others are contemptible for being contemptuous of Helen Thomas. "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." Perhaps a somewhat "contemptuous" remark regarding differences between contemptible and contemptuous: Consult Bartleby.com (Roget's online Thesaurus) for definitions, not Answers.com: contemptible v. contemptuous So, okay, Helen Thomas may have been mistaken in the choice of a word, but his pointing that out has simply led Snow to ignore her point, engaging in the most common annoying press spokesperson ploy: Find a "red herring" to deflect attention from content to style. (He's a quick study, apparently.) Perhaps more of us can focus on the point not the mistake and then apply what she says to oneself! Some people can be both "contemptuous" and "contemptible" (more to Helen Thomas' point, I think! ;) Helen Thomas often seems much sharper--and both far less "contemptible" and far less "contemptuous"--for her age than many of those serving public office (including our president), who face us far too often on evening "news" shows. (Perhaps I am being a bit "contemptuous," but I hope not "contemptible," in pointing that out!) ;) Having Helen Thomas in the White House Press Corps presents an important role model for "older Americans" (and others). Though there is usually an undercurrent of "taking" what she says "with a grain of salt," many press people do treat her with great deference (the opposite of contempt): e.g., her appearances on Real Time with Bill Maher. People who make fun of her are contemptible for being contemptuous. Of course, Tony Snow himself could have been simply distracted by the word choice; yet in the end he distracte people from the point that she was making. In that case, he would be merely "perverse" [wrong-headed] (not "perverted"--there's a difference of signification there too) rather than "contemptuous and [therefore] contemptible." In short: forthright and honest, Helen Thomas speaks her mind, and she tends to be among the first to cut through crap and to get to the core of issues--traits and skills not in abundance these days in our national mainstream media. Among her younger colleagues, the closest (I think) is MSNBC's Keith Olbermann. Imagine him (or any of her current colleagues in the White House Press Corps) about 40 years from now. Could they do as well or better than she? (Someday, if we live long enough, we will be at least as old as her; will we be as sharp still?) We need adults of various ages in the Press Corps to represent adults of various ages in the country. Maybe we could use some children in the Press Corps too--to keep everybody honest! Children and the elderly tend to ask questions in the most disarming and transparent ways. A bit more "disarmament" (so to speak) and "transparency" couldn't hurt! We need journalists in the White House Press Corps who can "disarm" the President's press spokesperson into conceding the truth! [Anyway: that's the case I'm making for keeping Helen Thomas in the White House Press Corps! No mandatory retirement age as long as people have something worthwhile to contribute and are not keeping someone better qualified from performing their work.]

    Yes, Gore did win the popular vote in 2000, however it is not the popular vote that gets you in office. The only reason the Supreme Court had anything to do with the 2000 election is because Gore and his folks brought it there. as far as Ohio goes, it is irrelevant because Kerry conceded. put that in your pipe and smoke it. For the record, I voted Harry Browne in 2000 and GWB in 2004

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#16)
    by Dadler on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 06:12:27 PM EST
    Squeak, Thanks for the link to the ROLLING STONE piece. But I doubt the people who most need to read the piece will, much less with an open mind (based on the thouroughly footnoted and researched nature of it). I predict another funny result in 2006, 2008 and on until the public revolts. bmadison, Oh, Ohio matters. That Kerry conceded means merely that he was as ignorant as most of us were -- and that the info since uncovered is quite disturbing. Check out Squeaky's link above to the Rolling Stone piece, it's a good read.

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#17)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 06:41:36 PM EST
    The only reason the Supreme Court had anything to do with the 2000 election is because Gore and his folks brought it there.
    uhh, actually, it was the bush folks, you remember them, they were the hired thugs pounding on the glass while a recount was trying to be made, that took it too the supremes:
    GEORGE W. BUSH, et al., PETITIONERS v. ALBERT GORE, Jr., et al.
    Notice bush was the 'petitioner'. But this post is about a WH press sec trying to swiftboat a member of the press. Gee, if only the WH had such high standards when they invited a male prostitute to fluff the previous occupant.

    i like helen thomas--she's courageous: Helen. Q The President raved today about the economy. How much has been primed by the war, spending for the military industrial complex? (June 1st, 2006)

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#19)
    by cpinva on Thu Jun 01, 2006 at 10:41:37 PM EST
    LOL..who has been out of the universe? No really,... try reading something other than left wing blogs all the time...
    really BB, try listening to someone other than limpdickbaugh, an admitted drug addict, and you might actually learn something, like who won the popular vote in 2000. that wouid be, um, hmmmmmm............al gore. lying a million times makes it no less of a lie. go on back to that cave now dude.
    The only reason the Supreme Court had anything to do with the 2000 election is because Gore and his folks brought it there.
    again, bmadison, lying a million times doesn't make it true. really, it doesn't. can't you guys come up with anything better than the standard republican talking points? geez, by now, even you should know they're balderdash.

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#20)
    by Slado on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 06:30:37 AM EST
    "What's great about liberals, especially blogging liberals, is facts never get in the way of a good theory" -Slado 2006 Let me get this straight. Bloggers on this thread are trying to claim that Gore is the legitimate president because he won the popular vote in 2000 but Kerry is the legitimate president because he should have won the electoral college in 2004 while he lost the popular vote. Wow. At least the people that hold these beliefs are cosistent. And can we all take a trip down memory lane please. Gore is the one that asked for recounts in certian counties because he thought that it would tip the balance in his favor. Why? Because he didn't want a state wide recount that has time and again shown Bush to be the winner. Also not factored into the liberal fantasy theories is the red voters who stayed home in the panhandle because the MSM had already declared Gore the winner when obviously he wasn't. I would be able to take some of your arguments more seriously if you didn't keep dragging out 2000 election madness and now trying to promote 2004 lunacy. There is no doubt Bush won in 2004. This Ohio madness is only being dragged out now because Bush is unpopular. Not because it holds any merit. Nevermind all the shenanigans that happened in Pennsylvania that have never been reported on because it didn't matter.

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#21)
    by Slado on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 06:36:09 AM EST
    If Helen has to blame the war to explain our booming economy then that's all the proof anyone should need to know she's insane. I'm sorry Bush is running a great economy liberals but shouldn't you be happy and not have to use the war as an excuse?

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#22)
    by Sailor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 06:45:09 AM EST
    'booming economy'!? wtf has he been smoking?

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#24)
    by Sailor on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:04:56 AM EST
    Payroll Growth Stalls With 75,000 New Jobs out of 150,000 forcast. It's a great economy if your are rich. the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is not a great economy, and I don't have to read blogs to know it, I just have to look at the 200% increase of patrons at my local foodbank and the thousands of layoffs from the factories around me.

    aaaah, the old "great economy" lie. Wages have been stagnant for the last 5 years. New jobs have been limping along at about half of what's needed to keep pace with population. Foreclosures are picking up as the housing bubble pops. Even the stock market has been stagnant under the Repubs. Remember the tax cut on capital gains was supposed to fuel investment? The dollar continues to be devalued against foreign currencies and our trade deficit has skyrocketed. Mewnwhile, our national debt has doubled in only the last 5 years. So, what, exactly, is great about the economy? OK, CEO pay is up again this year, you got me there.

    Dear little Bush trolls, Maybe you've forgotten, but my memory tells me that SCOTUS stopped the final Florida recount, with Gore gaining votes, and poised to win. Their reasoning? It would be unfair to the petitioner (Bush) to actually count the votes. When the votes finally were counted by the consortium of news organizations, guess who won? One clue--not Bush. The Recount Results It's the Republicans, with the help of the lapdog press, who spin the count the way they want it for their boy George. When he lost the popular vote in 2000, it was the result of the Electoral College, our great historical institution, that was paramount. When Ohio was in dispute in 2004, Kerry was painted as a poor loser for contesting it, as he had lost the popular vote. After all, will of the people and all that. Head Bush wins, tails the Dems (and America) lose. Or am I missing something?

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 07:03:37 PM EST
    Dick writes:
    New jobs have been limping along at about half of what's needed to keep pace with population.
    OK, you are telling me that: New jobs have been growing at about half of what's needed. Now, if something is increasing at 50% of the needed rate to break even, how come unemployment has decrased?? Starting in 6/01 the rate was 4.3%, increased to 6.03% and since then has trended downward to the current 4.6. So Dick, how can that be??? Five years of not keeping up, yet it is at 4.6%? Excuse me while I laff and laff.

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#28)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 07:15:55 PM EST
    So Dick, how can that be??? Five years of not keeping up, yet it is at 4.6%?
    as we have tried to explain to you many times before, many people have given up looking as evidenced by the decreased participation rate. We'd all laugh at you except you are pathetic.

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 07:27:55 PM EST
    Ukie - You really need to use a source that is credible. The following is from CNN re the NORC data and the media consortium you mistakenly refer to: Gore's four-county strategy
    Suppose that Gore got what he originally wanted -- a hand recount in heavily Democratic Broward, Palm Beach, Miami-Dade and Volusia counties. The study indicates that Gore would have picked up some additional support but still would have lost the election -- by a 225-vote margin statewide.
    And then this:
    On December 12, 2000, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned a Florida Supreme Court ruling ordering a full statewide hand recount of all undervotes not yet tallied. The U.S. Supreme Court action effectively ratified Florida election officials' determination that Bush won by a few hundred votes out of more than 6 million cast. Using the NORC data, the media consortium examined what might have happened if the U.S. Supreme Court had not intervened. The Florida high court had ordered a recount of all undervotes that had not been counted by hand to that point. If that recount had proceeded under the standard that most local election officials said they would have used, the study found that Bush would have emerged with 493 more votes than Gore.
    And then we have this story, quoting a New York Daily News.
    WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - About 46,000 people, most of them Democrats, are illegally registered to vote in New York City and in Florida, the liberal New York Daily News reported today. "The finding is even more stunning given the pivotal role Florida played in the 2000 presidential election, when a margin there of 537 votes tipped a victory to George W. Bush." Sixty-eight percent of those registered to vote in both states are Democrats. Sixteen percent did not list a party, and only 12 percent are Republicans...
    So, let us say that of the 68%, or 31280 registered Democrats, 50% voted illegally. That would be 15640. Now let's say that of these, 80% followed their party registeration and voted for Gore. That would be 12,512 illegal and unqualified votes. Net those out Ukie and Gore isn't even close. Rules count, Ukie. Even for Lefties.

    Re: Tony Snow, Helen Thomas and the Princess Bride (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:01:06 PM EST
    SD writes:
    as we have tried to explain to you many times before, many people have given up looking as evidenced by the decreased participation rate
    . Sure. Problem is for your theory to receive any consideration, the give up rate would have to be equal to the claimed lack of job growth, or 50%. Duhhhhhh...

    Al Gore persevered until the end. Kerry did not persevere. A POV on perseverance and Helen Thomas. Given what's been said, we (the voters) need to persevere. If the problems with voting fraud and malfunctioning or unreliable computerized voting machines are not resolved before this November's midterm elections (unlikely) and the next General Election in 2008 (who knows?), because we fail to persevere and insist upon fair elections in the U.S., then it's (as Yogi Berra said) "déja vu all over again." And we have no one to blame but ourselves. What was that our current President could not even get straight: "Fool me once. . . ." Maybe I'm not counting right, but hasn't President Bush (and the Republicans) fooled us ("the American people" and the rest of the world) at least twice by now? So what does that make us again? . . . "shame on me"--oh, yes--[LOUD CHORUS of would-be smarty-pants--liberals and conservatives alike] "FOOLS!"

    The Rolling Stone article by RFK, Jr. reports on conclusions by "experts" of
    ''virtually irrefutable evidence of vote miscount.'' The discrepancies, the experts add, ''are consistent with the hypothesis that Kerry would have won Ohio's electoral votes if Ohio's official vote counts had accurately reflected voter intent.''(41) According to Ron Baiman, vice president of the archive and a public policy analyst at Loyola University in Chicago, ''No rigorous statistical explanation'' can explain the ''completely nonrandom'' disparities that almost uniformly benefited Bush. The final results, he adds, are ''completely consistent with election fraud -- specifically vote shifting.''
    The article is very detailed and much more current than some of the information being cited by earlier posters who haven't read this article in Rolling Stone. See espec. the last page of the article. Here is how Senator Kerry has persevered since conceding the 2004 General Election:
    To help prevent a repeat of 2004, Kerry has co-sponsored a package of election reforms called the Count Every Vote Act. The measure would increase turnout by allowing voters to register at the polls on Election Day, provide provisional ballots to voters who inadvertently show up at the wrong precinct, require electronic voting machines to produce paper receipts verified by voters, and force election officials like Blackwell to step down if they want to join a campaign. (205) But Kerry says his fellow Democrats have been reluctant to push the reforms, fearing that Republicans would use their majority in Congress to create even more obstacles to voting. ''The real reason there is no appetite up here is that people are afraid the Republicans will amend HAVA [Help America Vote Act]* and shove something far worse down our throats,'' he told me.
    Thanks to Squeaky for the link. The full article is really worth reading, as others say above. Not delving into these current issues keeps us fools (quoting outdated and misleading information instead of new and accurate information). Summaries of past events and later efforts toward safeguarding voters' rights and related resources can be found at Voter March: Fighting for Voters' Rights. It's a blast from the past--but what's in store for the near and longterm future? *More on HAVA and the "Youth Vote."

    And one may want to check out this sobering account published last week on MSNBC.com: "Optimism about voting reform wanes: New machines and procedures have been introduced, but problems persist". It does not bode well for Midterm Elections in November 2006; it's a bit more optimistic about 2008 (but, again, who really can know?):
    Due to the unprecedented nature of these changes, it's difficult to predict how successful or unsuccessful the midterm election balloting might be five months from now. Still, Lewis says that while 2006 might seem like the country has gone "backwards" things will get better. He adds that voters must understand that implementing changes of this magnitude takes time. "My guess [sic] is -- honestly [!] -- by the time we get through [the] 2008 elections, we will have noticed a fairly significant improvement in terms of the voters being able to cast and count ballots accurately throughout the system."
    No matter how one votes, one really does want one's vote (literally) to "count" (to be counted). The U.S. sends monitors to oversee the fairness and legitimacy of foreign elections; we really need to straighten out our own election problems. Really. ("Honestly.")