Do we know that her account of interaction with defense lawyers is accurate? No.

Roberts said "no". Is it stupid to not speak your conscience?

wumhenry, Just tell IMHO that whatever you said that offended her was in jest. As long as IMHO is laughing, it's cool.

After all, we're all nothing but a couple of ignorant skank 'Ho's here.

ABRAMS: All right. My subjective opinion of looking at these pictures is they are two-buck naked women performing sexual acts on one another in front of a lot of different people. Now again...

District Attorney Mike Nifong sent dozens of samples to DNA Security of Burlington at the suggestion of the State Bureau of Investigation, whose testing failed to link any lacrosse player to an exotic dancer who alleges she was raped at a March 13 lacrosse team party.

I neither said nor implied that raping a prostitute is OK. Rather, I asked how likely it is that a prostitute would be "reduced to hysteria by shame and guilt" (quoting someone else's conjectural description of the AV's state of mind)if dicked without her consent. Someone who frequently and routinely has sex for money with any stranger who'll pay her price might be very frustrated and angry if someone forced her to submit to do it for nothing, but it's far from clear to me why she'd feel either ashamed or guilty, let alone be reduced to hysteria by those emotions. So far no one here, including the person who took it for granted that the AV, who is a prostitute, would react in that way if forced to "give it away for free," has deigned to answer the question, but I still think it's a good one.

Nifong issued two subpoenas May 31. The first asked Duke University for home addresses for 47 lacrosse players and two other students; the second asked for identity card data that could track where the 49 students were in the hours before and after the alleged rape.

Sounds like Nifong is still on a fishing expedition trying to determine who was present at the party. Why wasn't this done BEFORE indictments were handed down?

Maybe he's trying to identify the four "agitated" players that got in Mostafa's cab around 12:50 a.m.

Hi! My name is Kim and I am involved in the Duke Lacrosse scandal. Although I am no celebrity and just an average citizen, I've found myself in the center of one of the biggest stories in the country. I'm worried about letting this opportunity pass me by without making the best of it and was wondering if you had any advice as to how to spin this to my advantage. I am determined not to let any negative publicity about my life overtake me. I'm so confused as to who to talk to for relevant advice and I hope that you can return my e-mail. If you cannot help, do you know of any names and numbers I can call?

"Why shouldn't I profit from it?" she asked. "I didn't ask to be in this position ... I would like to feed my daughter."

I am curious as to how the money is broken down in the business. How much, if any, of the AV's $400 is owed to Bunny Hole? To the driver?

She was also moonlighting with an escort service. Nearly two dozen such services are listed in the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill yellow pages. One owner who agreed to be interviewed but identified only by her first name, Jamie, operates escort services under six names. She employs three to four women. Escort fees are $160 an hour -- $100 for the escort and $60 as Jamie's take. Occasionally, a customer will request a dancer for a party, a complication because the job requires a bouncer for safety. "We can't send one girl for five guys," Jamie said. But often no bouncer is available, and the escort needs the cash. "Everybody loves money," Jamie said.

Roberts' attorney called the e-mail regrettable.

If we are looking for motives for the AV making up such a story we could have: 1. To divert her parents' inevitable discovery that their daughter was, as IMHO likes to say, a "skanky ho." 2. To avoid being incarcerated, either in a lockdown for public intoxication or in some other public institution for substance abusers. 3. To avoid the consequences of not bringing back money owed to Bunny Hole.

If we are looking for motives for the AV making up such a story we could have: 1. To divert her parents' inevitable discovery that their daughter was, as IMHO likes to say, a "skanky ho." 2. To avoid being incarcerated, either in a lockdown for public intoxication or in some other public institution for substance abusers. 3. To avoid the consequences of not bringing back money owed to Bunny Hole.

I recognize his request for DNA was legitimate. The SANE nurse found male genetic material in the victim, and he wanted the most expediant way to identify the perpetrator. He claimed in his petition to compel the team to provide DNA samples that it would indicate the guilty AND exhonorate the innocent. Unfortunately for Nifong, it didn't belong to anyone on the team.

What could Nifong want with information about what other students were doing before or after the party?

That's a lot of exoneration! It still remains for David Evans to use other means to join the exonerated. DNA can't do everything.

City Manager Patrick Baker, supervisor of the police department, said Friday that the homicide case remains a top priority. "The investigation has obviously not progressed as quickly as we would have hoped, but it is not from a lack of attention," Baker said. "But the point isn't to rush out and arrest somebody, it's to arrest the right person. I am confident the killer or killers will be brought to justice. It just might take some time."

"She heard that (the accuser) was sexually assaulted, which she stated is a 'crock' and she stated that she was with her the whole time until she left," according to Himan's notes. "The only time she was alone was when she would not leave and that time period was less than five minutes."

The accuser told the nurse "that she was not choked; that no condoms, fingers or foreign objects were used during the sexual assault," the lawyers wrote in a sworn statement. The nurse noted that the accuser's arms, legs, head, neck, nose, throat, mouth, chest, breasts and abdomen were all normal, the court filing said. The lawyers filed the accuser's medical records under seal with the court.

The nurse noted that the accuser's arms, legs, head, neck, nose, throat, mouth, chest, breasts and abdomen were all normal, the court filing said.

Seligmann's lawyers said there were major discrepancies in the reports of the doctors and nurses who examined the accuser at Duke Medical Center.

The defense wanted Kim in their corner so bad. Butch blew it. She can provide the motive and the opportunity.

The nurse noted that the accuser's arms, legs, head, neck, nose, throat, mouth, chest, breasts and abdomen were all normal, the court filing said.

She saw 23 photos in all, which attorneys say prove their clients' innocence, in part, because they show that the woman was already bruised and cut when she arrived at the house.

One of the men that yelled thanks for my cotton shirt perhaps may have told someone before the party that there was going to be a stripper and he planned to rape and sodomize her.

I want to be careful and not offend anyone, but, what about the premise that the players might not be very familiar with bruising on African-American skin? Maybe what they saw as bruises were instead normal skin discoloration and blotchiness.

She told the nurse she was NOT choked, yet Nifong has maintained that she was choked from the beginning.

So, again, was Nifong smoking crack that day (yea these many months gone by) he began his television career?

The nurse noted that the accuser's arms, legs, head, neck, nose, throat, mouth, chest, breasts and abdomen were all normal, the court filing said. Does this statement means to you she doesn't has any bruises on other parts of the body that is not mentioned here?

How does one explain the DA's actions? The idea that he was politically motivated is not at all compelling to me. One does not enhance one's political stature by championing a case that clearly has no merit.

And please don't suggest that he just needed to get past the primary date. That is aburd for a hundred reasons.

IMHO - Are you implying you don't know about her email, or are you obfuscating?

Or is it stupid to try and get a book deal because you were the "other stripper" that night.

although my guess is that some of the people who like to say "skanky ho" when it suits them

1. To divert her parents' inevitable discovery that their daughter was, as IMHO likes to say, a "skanky ho."

Ah yes, if not a book deal, how else would she profit? A movie? Please enlighten us as to what "take advantage of the situation" really meant.

I thought you only cared about the truth? Why not discuss her motivations? Or are you really Kim Roberts????

And please don't suggest that he just needed to get past the primary date. That is aburd for a hundred reasons.

Would ya mind stating one or two of those reasons for the benefit of the rest of us?

He could have explained that the worst possible outcome would be to rush the indictments without having sufficient evidence to support a conviction. It was obvious that he was pursuing the case diligently.

One would be that it is unethical for a DA to indict individuals he knows to be innocent. Worse would be for a DA to do so cynically, knowing that he would drop the charges once the indictments had served their political purpose. Most knowledgable accounts suggest that the DA in this case is an ethical person.

He could have explained that the worst possible outcome would be to rush the indictments without having sufficient evidence to support a conviction.

Of course I am feeling well, thanks for asking. Care to comment on what her motivations were or are you going to hide behind your cowardly rock?

No more than you made up the rape scenario in the bathroom with the men involved. I guess you could say we are even, but I think you are a disingenuous miserable schlotnick so I guess you owe me one again.

Who doesn't have motivations to lie in this story? The "boys" are lookin' at 16 years.

The defense attorney also takes issue with the rape examination itself, pointing out that the nurse who assisted in the exam was in training. Osborn says the only evidence of physical trauma the nurse could find was a scratch on the accuser's knee and a small cut on her heel, which was not bleeding.

Durham attorney Bill Thomas said some of the photographs, taken when she arrived at the house, indicate the woman was injured before getting to the party March 13. They show extensive bruises and scrapes on her legs, especially around the knees, he said.

12:37:58 a.m.: A series of photos are taken, all showing the woman lying on her left side on the back porch, seemingly passed out or asleep. She had visible cuts on her legs and buttocks that did not appear in the previous photos.

A 12:37 photo shows she's lying on the back stoop; she fell, according to Ekstrand. Her elbow is dusted and scraped, and her ankle is cut and bleeding.

Can I also add self-absorbed to the descriptor?

so was she looking for a book deal or what? Answer the question schlotnick.

... It seems pretty clear that a sizeable portion of the Durham electorate views this case symbolically, and is concerned much less with the facts of the matter or the DA's ethically challenged behavior.

The accuser told the sexual assault nurse that she had consumed one drink of alcohol and was taking Flexeril, a prescription drug used to treat muscle spasms.

Flexeril is a muscle relaxant prescribed to relieve muscle spasms resulting from injuries such as sprains, strains, or pulls.

Side effects cannot be anticipated... More common side effects may include: Dizziness, drowsiness, dry mouth Less common or rare side effects may include: Abnormal heartbeats, abnormal sensations, abnormal thoughts or dreams, aggressive behavior, agitation, anxiety, bloated feeling, blurred vision, confusion, constipation, convulsions, decreased appetite, depressed mood, diarrhea, difficulty falling or staying asleep, difficulty speaking, disorientation, double vision, excitement, fainting, fatigue, fluid retention, gas, hallucinations, headache, heartburn, hepatitis, hives, increased heart rate, indigestion, inflammation of the stomach, itching, lack of coordination, liver diseases, loss of sense of taste, low blood pressure, muscle twitching, nausea, nervousness, palpitations, paranoia, rash, ringing in the ears, severe allergic reaction, stomach and intestinal pain, sweating, swelling of the tongue or face, thirst, tingling in hands or feet, tremors, unpleasant taste in the mouth, urinating more or less than usual, vague feeling of bodily discomfort, vertigo, vomiting, weakness, yellow eyes and skin Problems such as confusion or hallucinations are more likely in older adults.

Avoid alcoholic beverages while taking Flexeril.

The accuser told the nurse that Roberts assisted players in the alleged sexual assault and that the second dancer stole her money and property, the motion said.

I would love to hear the speculation from him as to what she meant by taking advantage of the situation and the 'was there a rape" "NO" comment...

Roberts also initially told police, according to the motion, that the alleged victim never went back in to the house at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., even though authorities have said in court documents that the two left the party and later returned at the urging of some of the partygoers. Instead, the motion says, Roberts -- also identified as Kim Pittman -- locked the alleged victim in Roberts' Honda Accord while she proceeded to the back of the house to look for some of the accuser's personal belongings.

I am unfamiliar with the term "schlotnick." Is a "schlotnick" anything like a "sock puppet?"

Hmmmmm. Seems like Kim Roberts has changed her tune over time as well.

Roberts also initially told police, according to the motion, that the alleged victim never went back in to the house at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., even though authorities have said in court documents that the two left the party and later returned at the urging of some of the partygoers. Instead, the motion says, Roberts -- also identified as Kim Pittman -- locked the alleged victim in Roberts' Honda Accord while she proceeded to the back of the house to look for some of the accuser's personal belongings.

I wonder other other injuries the accuser may have had that the trainee missed?

I don't think the electorate views itself as a finder of fact.

The motion points to a statement from Johnson saying the accuser engaged in sexual activity with at least four different men from March 10 to March 12.

I wonder other other injuries the accuser may have had that the trainee missed?

As to the recent revelations by the defense, it's of course possible that several prominent NC defense lawyers are willfully filing false claims about the evidence Nifong presented to them in motions to the court, thereby risking disbarment. I'd say that's about as likely as Kim Roberts winning a Miss Congeniality contest.

Nifong fielded a question Tuesday night about a motion filed Monday in which defense lawyer Kirk Osborn accused him "prostituting" the truth and using the alleged rape for political gain.

"Mr. Osborn has said many things," Nifong said. "There is some possibility there might be one kernel of truth in one of his motions somewhere."

Osborn asked that Nifong be removed from the rape case.

"If I were Kirk Osborn, I'd be trying to get me off the case, too," Nifong grinned.

http://mikenifong.com/news13.php Originally published in: The Herald-Sun Wednesday May 03, 2006 Edition: Final

I'd be rather worried about voting for a prosecutor who refused to follow at least two elements of the state bar's ethics guidelines and conducted a witness ID procedure that didn't follow the state's Actual Innocence Guidelines.

Osborn says the only evidence of physical trauma the nurse could find was a scratch on the accuser's knee and a small cut on her heel, which was not bleeding.

Perhaps the trainee disregarded injuries that were clearly too old to have been sustained that evening.

Her elbow is dusted and scraped, and her ankle is cut and bleeding

visible cuts on her legs and buttocks that did not appear in the previous photos.

I'm curious about all this. 1) Could you make the explicit case against Nifong on the ethics violations, citing direct quotes from him if possible... and 2) could you answer me this about the photo lineup? We now hear that there were two lineups conducted prior to the lineup in question... Do you know whether those earlier lineups violated the guidelines and if so, how and why? And was anybody named in those prior lineups?

The accuser told the nurse that Roberts assisted players in the alleged sexual assault and that the second dancer stole her money and property, the motion said.

I commented that the accuser had not changed her story from the Krogers parking lot to the Durham Access Center as Bob in Pacifica claimed she did. My comment had nothing to do with the above statement. I'm not sure why Osborn is trying to discredit the trainee.

Back to an earlier thread, re Nifong's latest subpoena, for information from the entire team: he didn't get full names and home addresses from the players when he had them photographed and give DNA samples?

Bob Ekstrand, a Durham defense lawyer who has represented Duke students, stood outside the lab holding a briefcase.

"Don't answer any questions," he told the young men as they prepared to go in the building. When asked whether he was representing any of the students, he replied, "No comment."

"I feel pretty confident that a rape occurred."

"I am convinced that there was a rape, yes, sir."

imho - are those really the defense attorneys' claims, or are those interpretations of the photos by members of the media who looked at them?

A 12:37 photo shows she's lying on the back stoop; she fell, according to Ekstrand. Her elbow is dusted and scraped, and her ankle is cut and bleeding.

At any rate, the ankle and heel cut could be one and the same - it probably had stopped bleeding hours later. The elbow might have been more dusted than actually scraped.

And just because some cuts did not appear in other photos does not mean they they were not old cuts.

12:37:58 a.m.: A series of photos are taken, all showing the woman lying on her left side on the back porch, seemingly passed out or asleep. She had visible cuts on her legs and buttocks that did not appear in the previous photos.

AND, imho: publishing that picture. Tsk, tsk.

The defense is now going to minimize the injuries they claimed the photos documented?

You think this description is incorrect?

I commented that the accuser had not changed her story from the Krogers parking lot to the Durham Access Center as Bob in Pacifica claimed she did.

There are a couple of problems here, because there is conflicting evidence. There is evidence, from Sgt Shelton, that the AV did change her story.

We have to decide which evidence on that matter is more believable. Secondly, there is now evidence that the AV said some pretty preposterous things about what went on that night.

Moreover, there is an additional problem. This is not a case of the AV remembering more details over time. This is a case of the AV saying some pretty contradictory things.

my recollection is that Kim did not mention any racial slurs during the dancing, that it was the broomstick comment that put them off.

I haven't commented on this new story. I'd like to see a source other than a defense motion. The defense motion to recuse the DA was a pretty amusing ploy filed the day before the election. Even Yale Galanter thought that was a loser of a motion.

I believe that part of the point of the photos is that many of the injuries were old - not sustained that night. And maybe if it was obvious that they were old injuries, the trainee disregarded them.

April 24, 2006 issue - Attorneys for members of the Duke University lacrosse team are presenting their fullest accounting yet of what happened the night a stripper says three players raped her. The timeline--illuminated by photos from one partygoer's digital camera that NEWSWEEK has viewed--offers a preview of the defense strategy should indictments come as expected early this week.

The defense was pushing these as fresh wounds, they were saying the wounds line up with the screen door.

So, are you saying that the defense lies in its motions? Because that is what you are implying there.

The defendant, an innocent person, has been falsely charged by District Attorney Mike Nifong...

District attorney Mike Nifong neglected his duties as a prosecutor to seek the truth and a fair prosecution.

The above undisputed time line is derived from the state's own reports and witnesses.

Officers from the Durham Police Department responded to the 911 call and arrived at approximately 1:51 a.m.

Moreover, if this motion comes to light, I would expect it to contain copies of other police reports, so we can see for ourselves.

Again, are you sure that the defense was pushing those as fresh wounds? What you posted was the media's interpretation of the photos. Just because there were photos of the AV naked and those wounds were not visible, does not mean that they were not old wounds. It might just mean that they could not be seen in that particular shot, from that particular angle.

A 12:37 photo shows she's lying on the back stoop; she fell, according to Ekstrand. Her elbow is dusted and scraped, and her ankle is cut and bleeding.

12:37:58 a.m.: A series of photos are taken, all showing the woman lying on her left side on the back porch, seemingly passed out or asleep. She had visible cuts on her legs and buttocks that did not appear in the previous photos.

Pittman (Kim) said in a handwritten note dated March 22 that the accuser, to whom Pittman refers as "Precious," wanted to stay at the party and earn more money, even after one of the players made a verbal threat. "Precious became 'crazy' and eventually passed out and had to be carried to Pittman's car by some of the Duke athletes," the statement says. Another police note obtained by the defense says the alleged victim acknowledged having two beers before arriving at the party and that she and Pittman both had a rum and coke after their arrival. The accuser also told police that she used a vibrating sex toy during a dance in a hotel room for a male and female, but she told police that she had not had sex in the week before the party, the note says. However, a male friend of the accuser said that he had sex with her that week and that he drove her to three other sexual encounters, according to the friend's statement.