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ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guantanamo

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Detainees
Posted on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 03:45:18 PM EST
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The ACLU today released 1,000 Pentagon documents on Guantanamo, including some pertaining to suicide attempts.

"These documents are the latest evidence of the desperate and immoral conditions that exist at Guantánamo Bay," said Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU. "The injustices at Guantánamo need to be remedied before other lives are lost. We must uphold our American values and end indefinite detentions and widespread abuse."

...."It is astounding that the government continues to paint the suicides as acts of warfare instead of taking responsibility for having driven individuals in its custody to such acts of desperation," said Amrit Singh of the ACLU Immigrants' Rights Project. "The government may wish to hide Guantánamo Bay behind a shroud of secrecy, but its own documents reveal the hopelessness and despair faced by the detainees who are being held without charge and with no end in sight."

The documents are available here.

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    ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guantanamo | 22 comments (22 topical)
    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 04:48:39 PM EST
    This balming of the US is like the LA Times not blaming the Katrina evacuees who committed fraud for the fraud they committed. Good luck selling this.

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#2)
    by Al on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 04:51:27 PM EST
    OK, so in the documents I see things like electrocution of a prisoner by applying live wires to his skin, and also to the wires of his cage so he would suffer an electric discharge if he touched them. This is an example of a very deliberate act of torture. Using the cage requires certain knowledge of how to set up the electric circuit. One wire would have to be connected to the cage, and the other to ground. This is not surprising. It's exactly the sort of thing that Latin American military dictators were taught at the School of the Americas by the US military. This has been going on for a very long time. The novelty is that the American public is now beginning to have a dim awareness that they're not in Kansas any more. The comfortable self-image of America as the land of democracy and freedom and equality is completely false. The sooner ordinary Americans realize this, the sooner they will be able to start grappling with the problem of how to make those admirable values real again. It will be a long and painful process, and the resistance will be very strong. The criminals are powerful and rich and well-armed, and they will resist justice with incredible tenacity. But look at countries like Argentina or Chile or South Africa. And ask yourself this: If they can do it, why can't Americans do it?

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#3)
    by Sailor on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 05:33:42 PM EST
    This balming of the US
    Maybe it's a typo, or maybe it's a freudian slip.
    the LA Times not blaming the Katrina evacuees
    Ooops, can't prove a negative ... next!?
    Katrina evacuees who committed fraud
    Which was small potatos compared to how Halliburton milked the system. (please, please ask for links!) Which brings me to my final point: WTF does this have to do with the fact that the pentagon, after an unsuccessful lawsuit, had to release docs on Gitmo!? Die, troll, die. BTW, Al nailed it. (sorry folks about swinging for the low hanging fruit;-)

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#4)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 05:56:14 PM EST
    Al writes:
    Using the cage requires certain knowledge of how to set up the electric circuit. One wire would have to be connected to the cage, and the other to ground.
    Al, that is like 9th Grade General Science, or worse, something any farm boy understands from about age 7. Now, is it torture to connect a fence to electricty and then tell the prisoner not to touch? Somehow that doesn't meet the bill. I mean even if he wasn't told, do you think he kept on touching it?? Sailor - Since you seem to think that one wrong deserves another - see your Halliburton and Katrina fraud comment - I wonder why you are complaining about a little torture? BTW - I don't give you the Halliburton point, and say that there was very little torture.

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 06:32:44 PM EST
    I don't give you the Halliburton point, and say that there was very little torture.
    Ah yes, the ability to create reality by saying it is so...another amazing evolutionary adaptation of Wingnuttus Americanus. Oh the irony here...Halliburton actually builds the cells the prisoners kill themselves in.

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#6)
    by Sailor on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 06:34:56 PM EST
    I wonder why you are complaining about a little torture?
    How amusing, this commenter finally agrees it was torture ... but just a little torture.
    Sailor - Since you seem to think that one wrong deserves another - see your Halliburton and Katrina fraud comment
    WTF has this have to do with the fact that, forced by a court, the pentagon finally has admitted that they tortured folks!? Sorry, it was just a lttle bit o' torture. Can anyone else name things that are absolutes but others describe them as 'just a little bit'? I'll start: death pregnancy torture

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#7)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 06:43:04 PM EST
    Well, the little toadie is making progress; not terribly long ago, he was still calling beating and smothering to death frat-house-pranks and halogen bulbs up the rectum and electrocution were "panties on the head."

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 08:10:37 PM EST
    Perhaps the lesson here is that the desire to blow oneself up and kill as many people as possible in the act, carries consequences. The left seem to adhere to the "all's fair" rule in war, as long as you happen to be a barbaric, sub-human killer. Those fulfilling that noble calling are martys or freedom fighters. American troops trying to stop them are guilty of causing despair and hopelessness, leading even to suicide. Of course, these nuts are trying to commit suicide in the first place. Evidently the left is offended by the fact that they didn't succeed in taking some innocent people with them. Maybe the ACLU can sue for "restraint of trade"!

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#9)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 08:17:07 PM EST
    The left seem to adhere to the "all's fair" rule in war, as long as you happen to be a barbaric, sub-human killer. While the right sticks to the strawman as the chosen form of debate.

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#11)
    by Sailor on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 08:34:10 PM EST
    Just let them go to heaven to get their honey, milk & virgins.
    as opposed to angels and eternal life with the lord. biggest difference I can see is that the christians who most fervently belive in that are only willing to send other people to die. personally, I believe they are both diabolical. [/snark]

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 08:51:38 PM EST
    Jondee - You lie. I have held the following position for a very long time.
    Posted by PPJ (aka Jim) February 18, 2005 07:37 AM CA - Well, whatever happened, my first question is what is an Iraqi doing in Afghanstian? Taking the waters? Getting a high mountian tan? That must be it, because we know that there are no terrorists from Iraq. (Yes, dear CA, that is sarcasm.) Now to the unproven charge. If it happened, it shouldn't have. As before. Investigate, charge, try, convict and pubush. IF you have evidence. Until then, keep on ranting. You never had it so go.
    Sailor - You wrote:
    Which was small potatos compared to how Halliburton milked the system. (please, please ask for links!)
    I ask for links, in the next open thread... I wouldn't want you to hijack another thread. In the meantime, the point is that if can't condemn all, why condemn one? A little selective morality, eh?

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#13)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 09:02:54 PM EST
    ppj - You lie, or should I just say continue to breathe (and toadie, grovel and play waterboy). Im not going to go through the archives (tonight) and find every torture thread where you dismissed reports with another assinine, flppant, "panties-on-the-head" non-sequiter, but there were more than enough instances to justify my characterization.

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#14)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 09:39:18 PM EST
    Btw, I have no idea what how that "proof" you supplied in any way refutes my charge about your consistently cavalier attitude toward torture. I think I'll add no-brain-no-shame to the liar just for complete accuracy's sake.

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 06:04:24 AM EST
    Jondee writes:
    but there were more than enough instances to justify my characterization.
    My position on torture is well defined and documented. You have been caught making things up, now you want to change the subject. Let us review some of my comments.
    A special Guantanamo investigator, Air Force Lt. Gen. Randall Schmidt, subsequently told Congress that al-Qahtani was also forced to wear a woman's bra, dance with a male guard, "perform dog tricks'' and was smeared with fake menstrual blood to lower his self-esteem - techniques the general described as "degrading and abusive'' but not inhumane.
    The above is not torture. BTW - I wrote the following on that thread in response to Randy Paul's usual "you want US troops treated this way?"
    As compared to having their heads sawed off? Yes. Wouldn't you?
    This one was also mine:
    Posted by JimakaPPJ March 20, 2006 08:16 AM et al - Before you condemn the whole US and turn the keys of government over to the next terrorist who claims to have been tortured, let me remind you that: The US took the claims, investigated the claims, indicted some individuals, tried some and convicted some. That is very strong evidence that we are not "for torture." Well over a year ago I, as Big Tex has done, noted that we need to do two things. First, redefine who is, and is not a POW. In my opinion we need no changes, but it wouldn't hurt to have a discussion about it. Secondly, we need to redefine what is torture. Placing a pair of women's panties on the head of a prisoner, in my view is not torure, no matter how "insulted" they claim to be. Being questioned by a female officer is not torture. Having a copy of your most important religious object destroyed, defiled, etc., is not torture. Using dogs to control prisoners is not torture.
    I could go on, but there is no need. You have again demonstrated that you can't debate, so you must make things up.

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#16)
    by Sailor on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 08:15:34 AM EST
    Jondee, here's a way to do the search. In google enter: ppj torture site:talkleft.com
    we need to redefine what is torture.
    there is a worldwide definition of torture that we've already signed on to.
    Placing a pair of women's panties on the head of a prisoner, in my view is not torure
    but it is against the GenCons and bush has said that we adhere to the GenCons in gitmo.

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#17)
    by soccerdad on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 08:39:41 AM EST
    PPJ is against torture as defined by the GC. However, the GC does not apply and none of the acts we've described are torture. So as usual, he's talking out of both sides of his mouth [more likly a different oriface] trying to have it both ways, i.e. I'm against torture, but these guys aren't protected by the GC and besides what you define ain't torture. His complete dishonesty on this subject is breath taking and mimics exactly the tact taking by the criminals in the WH just define the crime away.

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#18)
    by scribe on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 09:17:36 AM EST
    Interesting how no one seems to bother actually reading the Gitmo documents. I skimmed a few (1000 pages is a lot of reading) and came quickly upon this at pages 5-6:
    [to summarize] the captive who tried to hang himself was hospitalized in the ICU and intubated, suffering from hypoxia-induced brain injury. He was in a vegetative state for some time, and developed dystonia, related pneumonia, and a few infections. After a month or two of this, he made a startling recovery and was going through PT to recover. The medical staff strongly recommended he be returned to his home country at the earliest opportunity.
    So, what does all the medical mumbo-jumbo mean? (1) he hung himself with his towel after being in Gitmo for about a year; (2) he was hanging there long enough* such that he suffered brain damage from lack of oxygen (hypoxia) (3) the medical staff had to put him on a ventilator to keep him alive (4) his brain damage was so severe he was a vegetable for some time (a vegetative state), until he began to recover from it; (5) if you've ever dealt with people in a vegetative state, you know they fall prey to all sorts of ailments - starting with bedsores and urinary infections. (6) somehow he came out of it and got some level of functioning back, so our government suggests, what, exactly? That's right - send him back to whatever third world country he came from (doubtless they knew he can get the worst of all medical care there). Nice. * How long is long enough? Well, there are a lot of things that affect it, but rule of thumb from basic first aid, one knows that oxygen deprivation of over four minutes is likely to result in severe brain damage or death (depending on the condition of the person). So, best guesstimate is the guards didn't find him for several minutes.

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#19)
    by jondee on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 10:36:59 AM EST
    We all know that Mr."I never defended Delay", if caught in flagrante delicto with a goose, would claim that he was just fluffing sofa cushions, but if anyone else finds it entertaining to watch ppj go through rhetorical contortions, squirm, dodge and equivocate and talk about how "the Left likes to make claims," by all means do the search that Sailor suggested. Please, be my guest.

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 02:01:31 PM EST
    Jondee - Here's some more:
    Posted by PPJ (aka Jim) February 18, 2005 11:45 AM Ian - It seems that we have put quite a few troops in jail, so why do you dismiss an investigation? I mean, unlike the UN, when we investigate, things happen. Bad people are punished. Dearest No Name - I have repeatedly condemed torture on this very blog. So you either want to make a statement/question that you know the answer to in an inane attempt to insult me, or you are dumb. Wait. We may have a twofer here.
    Posted by Poker Player (aka Jim) January 25, 2005 10:16 AM CA - In my opinion they aren't POW's, and with certain exceptions they have been treated humanely. As noted, the differences rest mainly on what I see as torture, and what you see as torture. No need to go there again, we both know each other's positions. I do find it ironic that those supporting the prisoners, or perhaps wanting different treatment is a better expression, do not want to clean up the ITCAT and redo the GC so that we have no confusion. Could it be that your concern is merely to have something to complain about rather than fixing it?
    Posted by PPJ (aka Jim) March 2, 2005 06:12 PM
    Yes indeed. Ole PPJ, the only person on the blog who has commented that the GC and ICAT should be upgraded to cover the type of war we are now fighting. This just proves that you folks don't read before commenting. Something I have suspected for sometimes.


    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#21)
    by soccerdad on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 02:05:51 PM EST
    ppj thanks for proving my 9:39 am post.

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#22)
    by soccerdad on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 02:18:17 PM EST
    It is quite reasonable to suggest that the GC does not apply to these people
    says you. Because you say so doesn't make it true.

    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#23)
    by jondee on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 02:20:24 PM EST
    But prove it dosnt work, eh Jim?

    ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guantanamo | 22 comments (22 topical)