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Friday Open Thread

Time for an open thread. Speak your mind, keep us up to date on news and what the other blogs are up to. I'll be back.

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A potentially controversial new ad campaign from the Marijuana Policy Project names prominent public officials, including President George W. Bush, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, former Vice President Al Gore, and Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas as having admitted to using marijuana. The ad then asks, "Is it fair to arrest three quarters of a million people a year for doing what presidents and a Supreme Court justice have done?"

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  • MSNBC anchor Rita Cosby gets a different gig. Her Live and Direct show is being canceled in July but she will be the primary anchor for MSNBC Investigates.

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Tucker, on the other hand, is being moved to the Abrams Report slot -- 4pm and 6pm ET. So nighttime on MSNBC will be Hardball, Olbermann and MSNBC Investigates. What about Scarborough?

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    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by scribe on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 08:48:50 AM EST
    This is very bad and has just moved over the wires. And, making it worse, these five were from the same platoon as the two who a few weeks ago were captured, killed and their bodies booby-trapped. I think it is both too early and somewhat irresponsible (given the limited facts we have available) to speculate on whether the two were captured, killed and booby-trapped in revenge, but I would not be surprised if that came to be the case. These units tend to stay and patrol in the same areas.... This is the kind of thing which happens when Preznits and Rummy the SecDef and various executive officials say the Geneva Conventions don't necessarily apply. Remove the "Thou Shalt Nots", and there's a race to the bottom. In a race to the bottom, there is no finish line.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 09:27:17 AM EST
    Scribe - this is the kind of stuff that is bound to happen when troops are placed in untenable conditions by irresponsible and deceitful leaders with no clear objective or plan set forth. Insanity becomes a common response to insane situations... Decent into Hell:
    Embracing the whore called war destroys morality, and doing all this in a dishonorable cause compounds the damage.


    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by scribe on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 09:34:39 AM EST
    Edger: The only distinction between:
    This is the kind of thing which happens when Preznits and Rummy the SecDef and various executive officials say the Geneva Conventions don't necessarily apply. Remove the "Thou Shalt Nots", and there's a race to the bottom. In a race to the bottom, there is no finish line.
    and
    this is the kind of stuff that is bound to happen when troops are placed in untenable conditions by irresponsible and deceitful leaders with no clear objective or plan set forth. Insanity becomes a common response to insane situations...
    is, as I see it, that there was little if any insanity involved here on the part of the individual troops(unless one wants to count the inherent insanity of war). Moreover, I wouldn't want to be their lieutenant - 3 dead and 5 accused of multiple murder, rape, arson, etc., from a platoon of 30-40. Not good to be the boss in that situation.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Edger on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 09:40:36 AM EST
    Moreover, I wouldn't want to be their lieutenant - 3 dead and 5 accused of multiple murder, rape, arson, etc., from a platoon of 30-40. Not good to be the boss in that situation. Surely. That family has (had) friends, neighbors, and countrymen. A whole country full of them... As you said: "This is very bad..."

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by scribe on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 09:44:34 AM EST
    It's bad on so many, many levels, I can't even begin to decribe, and it's not just the low-level guys' fault (though they did do whatever they did - and what that is we will find out, eventualy). This runs all the way to the top, again.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Edger on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 09:52:37 AM EST
    This runs all the way to the top, again. Yes. It always has. We all know where the chain of command, chain of accountability, and of ultimate responsibility leads. Or is supposed to lead...

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by scribe on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 09:59:19 AM EST
    Sad, when one reads the New Yorker article on Addington, how his intransigence (serving as Cheney's Cheney) on matters about war, peace and the conduct of operations have found their way throughout the US. Every instance of torture, mishandling, and all the rest have his fingerprints on them. I hope one day we all get to read an accurate, complete history of these days.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 10:04:14 AM EST
    I said this the other day here, and I think it's worth raising the speculation again, simply because I would not put it past bush co to do something like this...
    With the stories of what happened in Haditha, and the murder of Imam Walid's family, and now this story and others coming so close on the heels of each other, it is starting to feel like an orchestrated desensitizing campaign by the MSM. I can imagine someone scheming "maybe we can lower the intensity of emotion in the anti-war segment of the population by overloading them with disgust and getting them to a point where these reports of atrocities generate nothing more than a 'ho-hum... there they go again... what else is new?'" attitude
    ...considering the November wall it's starting to look like they are heading toward at full speed with failed brakes. The most cold, callous, and inhuman orchestrated desensitizing campaign ever imagined.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 10:17:14 AM EST
    MPP's new ads. Hey, my brother works for MPP and gave me a link to their new radio ad: http://www.mpp.org/streaming/2006-Ad_One.mp3

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by scribe on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 10:19:43 AM EST
    Well, I've been rolling around the thought that the NYT publishing the story on the (previously-public) SWIFT program and the calculated outrage was nothing more than Rover calling in a chit from Judy's employers so he can stir up the base. (1) Rethugs have been bashing the NYT since time out of mind. (2)The NYT is nothing if not the paper of the Establishment. (3) The Establishment are the ones with the most to lose if the Rethugs lose one or both houses this fall because they won't be able to keep on lootin' and stuffing their folks into the judiciary (N.B. the one constant of Roberts' jurisprudence - and why he was welcomed with open arms - is what Big Business wants, from him it gets). (4) The MSM are so compromised by shilling themselves out to W, no one trusts them anymore. (5) All of a sudden there's all sorts of stories on all sorts of issues that just happen to stir up the base. Comment?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Punchy on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 11:30:56 AM EST
    TL-- I would like to know your opinion of Nancy Grace. Saw her show for the first time, and think she's a disgrace to the legal system. There isn't an argument she's not willing to make to "prove" one's guilt. Incredible. Insane. P

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 11:44:24 AM EST
    I don't see how the MPP ad is controversial. It's a well known fact millions and millions of otherwise law abiding Americans are criminalized by our mj prohibition laws...it's simple law of averages that a lot of famous people, including politicians, are amongst the criminalized.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 11:58:02 AM EST
    Neil Young's Living With War Network and Living With War Today online newspaper debut today. As requested by Dan Rose of Warner Bros., I've added a copy of the press release with more information in a "Media" category thread concerning Neil Young's recent interview posted by TL. It is of special interest to writers and creators of protest songs and videos pertaining to war. Direct links to LWW Today and Neil Young's main site Living With War.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Dadler on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 12:07:36 PM EST
    With all the serious stuff to worry about, as a bit of comic relief why not consider the return of none other than Jose Canseco as a professional baseball player. Well, on the independent minor league level anyway. He wants to showcase his knuckleball, of all things. I suppose a knuckleHEAD could have good knuckleBALL. But I love the idea of Canseco making back to the bigs with a nasty floater and a truckload of steroid baggage. Fat chance, however.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 12:30:48 PM EST
    Dadler, I think I saw something on the news a week or so ago where he played in a amateur game in LA recently and knuckle ball is actually pretty good. Roger Clemens knuckleball good? Probably not. fwiw.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by scribe on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 12:38:44 PM EST
    Yeah, Canseco's a piece of work. Rickey Henderson played for this S.D. minor league team last year and was supposed to this year, too. Don't forget that Jose screwed up his arm when he played for the A's, warming up to come in and pitch relief. That's why he's tossing a knuckler. He used to have a gun. Jose's problem with getting back to the bigs is that he won't - he's been blackballed for, as it turns out, telling the truth about steroids. Everyone was just all hunky-dory and making gobs of money whoring out the game with 'roided up guys knocking scads of dingers out of these new bandboxes (baseball's version of crack, I call it), until Jose got his mouth running.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by desertswine on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 01:14:23 PM EST
    Judge tosses "Maria Cops" conviction.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by desertswine on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 01:17:26 PM EST
    Oops... Mafia

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 01:24:41 PM EST
    Any knuckleball thrown consistently for strikes is a good knuckleball. Just pity the catcher. sarc....fyi, Clemens has never thrown a knuckler. The current knuckleball king is Tim Wakefield.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 01:36:51 PM EST
    The interconnections between one's religious and one's political beliefs is important merits discussion, but discussion of such things--particularly between people opposed politically--usually doesn't get very far. I have blogged about what might be a partial answer, particularly applicable in an election year. Let me know what you think.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 01:51:28 PM EST
    The Beatitudes are out; Beating-in-Attitudes is in.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 02:04:21 PM EST
    MPP could probably find their ex-pot-smokers by blindfolding themselves and throwing darts at a roster of elected officials. Anyone who was in college during the 60s and 70s can reasonably be assumed to have smoked pot--which would include most legislators and judges now.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 02:20:45 PM EST
    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Dadler on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 02:33:13 PM EST
    Sarc, Scribe, K-dog, Confession time: one of the biggest bummers of my quite erratic Hollywood "career" was my (and my agents) inability to sell a baseball movie I wrote a few years ago, about a Vietnam Vet who took shrapnel in his hand, and who discovers as the Iraq War is beginning that with his maimed paw he can throw an otherwordly knuckler. The Natural set in the present day with Roy Hobbs staying a pitcher. My agents swear they'll sell it someday, after THE ROOKIE effect wears off, but dammit if I don't curse every time I THINK about a knuckler these days. Oh well, my bellyaching aside, I'm gonna try to get down there for his debut next week. Oughtta be fun.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Dadler on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 02:42:00 PM EST
    And I smoke plenty of pot, Molly. Don't throw that dart my way. Duck!!

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 03:16:46 PM EST
    Scribe writes:
    Well, I've been rolling around the thought that the NYT publishing the story on the (previously-public) SWIFT program and the calculated outrage was nothing more than Rover calling in a chit from Judy's employers so he can stir up the base.
    Huh? I mean, really???? Do you mind if I laugh??

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by dutchfox on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 03:17:45 PM EST
    Posted by scribe @ June 30, 2006 11:19 AM Regarding the NYT and stuff. Yes, I would agree. And...I just want to add, scribe: I generally love your comments. Cheers.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 03:22:19 PM EST
    Scribe - Can you give us some links on the "previously public" bit??? Why? Because I believe the deal was that the knowledge of that the government was looking at money transfers was known. HOW it was doing it was not. Perhaps you can prove me wrong. We wait to bask in your brillance.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by scribe on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 03:45:21 PM EST
    Jimaka You can start here: http://talkleft.com/new_archives/015188.html#comment-232999 http://talkleft.com/new_archives/015188.html#comment-232952 http://talkleft.com/new_archives/015188.html#comment-233001 And, if you watched Olbermann, he was waving a copy of SWIFT's own magazine (glossy pages, even) discussing the program. FWIW, anyone of any minimal sophistication would have recognized that anything going through an international money transfer would have plenty of routing and identity information included with it. You don't just zap funds all over the world without knowing whence they came, and where they were going. And that such money transfers are easy to track (for auditors' convenience, if nothing else). Bask away. Thanks for the compliments dutchfox; flattery might get one somewhere, but I prefer cash.... (smiles jokingly)

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by roy on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 04:40:55 PM EST
    Anybody following the space shuttle launch story? Sounds like we taxpayers are being forced to fund the strapping of some of our greatest American bad*sses into a vessel with known safety "issues" due to political and cheerleading concerns. (Sorry if this topic is insufficiently partisan to rile anybody up :)

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 04:51:02 PM EST
    kdog - right you are. Doh! I have no excuse except that I was scrambling out of the office and wasn't thinking...

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by Sailor on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 05:31:58 PM EST
    anybody following the space shuttle launch story?
    Roy, you might want to check this out.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by Patrick on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 05:51:10 PM EST
    I don't see how the MPP ad is controversial.
    Nor do I, those people just didn't get caught.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Patrick on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 05:51:54 PM EST
    But why did they leave out Clinton? Becuase he didn't inhale?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 07:57:55 PM EST
    Scribe - First, your NTYT editorial is full of claims, not proof. Your other link goes to some 30 or 40 documents, none of which do you identify as being the source for your claim that SWIFT was known of by the public. The next link to a link admits that the reference is obliquely. Look. It should be simple. If SWIFT was known about by the public due to a publication, give me a quote and then a link to the quote. That should be simple. That you cannot tells me you are either games playing, or else you have no source beyond what everyone knew. The government was trying to track money flow. Heck. That's not the argument, and if that is your claim it is weak indeed.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 08:02:11 PM EST
    Scribe - And since you just like to throw out links with no references, the following came from one of them. ``I worked this stuff and I can guarantee that [revealing the SWIFT] information made a difference," said Dennis Lormel, a retired FBI special agent who helped establish the bureau's Terrorist Financing Operations Section before leaving government in 2003. ``The disclosure will have an adverse impact on investigations. It was used in two specific instances where it helped to track terrorists. We also used it for lead value."

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 08:03:09 PM EST
    Scribe - Now. Who we gonna believe? The NYT or the FBI???

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by roger on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 08:11:32 PM EST
    NYT

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 08:16:12 PM EST
    "The FBI". I hope he's more representative of the consensus at the FBI than your one man at MIT was of MIT scientists.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 08:54:17 PM EST
    Watch Swift the website

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 06:16:45 AM EST
    Debbie - Hey and good morning. Been awhile. Hope you are well and thank you for link to the website to SWIFT. But alas, you don't grasp the argument. The argument is NOT that SWIFT's existence was not /is not known. The argument is that the government's USE of SWIFT was not known. I trust you see the difference. Scribe - I await your link that will prove your point. Roger - Doesn't surprise me. Jondee - Sometimes a majority of one is all that it is needed. In the meantime, you should contiue to graze with the herd.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 06:58:18 AM EST
    ppj - I just took a look at your herd on Fox last night.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 07:25:51 AM EST
    Jim, didn't you watch the video?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 12:42:53 PM EST
    Jondee - You watching FNC?? Really?? I am amazed. Did you call the network in advance? You, know, get a crawl across the bottom of the screen.. Jondee is warching....Jondee is watching... Debbie. The video wouldn't run. Really, if you have some proof, just quote the proof and link us to the soure. My guess is that the video is an interview with someone waffling around making claims.. Look, here is the most of the NYT article shortly after 9/11 where it was calling for Bush to:
    The Senate Banking Committee plans to hold hearings this week on a bill providing for such measures. It should be approved and signed into law by President Bush. New regulations requiring money service businesses like the hawala banks to register and imposing criminal penalties on those that do not are scheduled to come into force late next year. The effective date should be moved up to this fall, and rules should be strictly enforced the moment they take effect. If America is going to wage a new kind of war against terrorism, it must act on all fronts, including the financial one.
    Now what beyond the NYT deciding to declar War On The War On Terror made the NYT decide to reverse its position, I don't know. But it is obvious they did. Link But the issue here is not the hvpocritical activities of the NYT, but the claim that SWIFT was well known. So far no one has shown me even a passing remark, much less anything that would show that SWIFT was well known. Which is proving to me that the claim is bogus. BTW - I called my banker and she said that all transactions $5,000 and up are recorded and passed on to the Feds. I took it to be on a weekly basis. All transactions of $10,000 and above must be immediately reported. And all activities that appear to be seeking to avoid the reporting must be reporting

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 12:45:35 PM EST
    hmmmm.. can't figure that glitch out..oh well
    And all activities that appear to be seeking to avoid the reporting must be immediately reported.


    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by Dadler on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 01:37:35 PM EST
    All of the SWIFT talk is amusing because of something I remember hearing about from very early on in this post-9/11 reality -- Hawalas. Also known as the informal system of money transfer in much of the Arab world, and other places, that leaves next to no trail.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by Edger on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 02:15:24 PM EST
    Nobody is buying anymore:
    Many well-known right-wing media figures -- including Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Bill O'Reilly -- are losing their Internet audiences, according to an analysis of Web site ratings by IPD Group and U.S. Politics Today. On the other hand, traffic for Moveon.org has risen. At U.S. Politics Today, we thought it might be interesting to see how the right-wing media machine was doing. Not well, it turns out.


    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 03:49:49 PM EST
    Sailor - You seem to have difficulty understand the concept. The fact that the US was tracing financial transactions has been known since day one. So Swift's website comments are no different than what any other financial would/did say. Even my little bank says so. It is meaningless without some outside emphasis. It took the NYT's War On The War On Terror to highlight it, bring it to world wide attention and then condemn the US for doing what it said should be done back in 2001. Since you are big on links, I assume you can link us to reputable sources re the bushco leakers?

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 04:02:05 PM EST
    Dadler - Yes, but that is difficult and inefficent. Most countries have strict currency laws, so you just can't show up with a few million dollars in a suitcase. In the US, for example, they can sieze any money on excess of $5000 they find you with when boarding an aircraft. But the real loss isn't just the exposure of the tracking network, but that Beligum and Ireland, and most likely others, will stop cooperating. That is a killing blow. All for politics. All to try and defeat an political opponent. It is an infamous act. BTW - I think the past actions of the NYT, and the Left's general position that all terrorist must be treated as if they are a wayward patriots rather than stone cold killers, demonstrates very clearly why a criminal justice approach could never work.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 04:45:59 PM EST
    Jim, first you said
    none of which do you identify as being the source for your claim that SWIFT was known of by the public.
    Sailor gave you links showing that SWIFT was known by the public. Then you said
    The fact that the US was tracing financial transactions has been known since day one. So Swift's website comments are no different than what any other financial would/did say. Even my little bank says so. It is meaningless without some outside emphasis.
    The video was of Keith Olberman showing clips of Bush bragging about the program. Try it again. Video -WMP Video -QT. If that doesn't work go to crooksandliars, click Keith Olberman, scoll down to Keith Strikes Back Against NYT Bashers. Isn't Bush bragging enough emphasis? He is such your man, I would think him speaking would be more emphasis then the commi New York Times writing.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by Sailor on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 05:03:57 PM EST
    "The argument is NOT that SWIFT's existence was not /is not known. The argument is that the government's USE of SWIFT was not known." Uhh, bush bragged about his 'terrerist financing program' repeatedly." link mangled, deleted

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 06:30:05 PM EST
    I think a Congressional investigation is in order, because it's obvious that Bush gave a heads-up to the terrorists about investigating their financing. There can be no excuse for such a treasonous action by a sitting President.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#53)
    by Sailor on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 08:41:59 PM EST
    You seem to have difficulty understand the concept. The fact that the US was tracing financial transactions
    and bragged about them to the whole world. Apparently I screwed up 1 link and TL, in her infinite wisdom, trashed all of them. I would try to do better next time, but why bother with this commenter will just uhh ... do what he always does.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 08:07:47 AM EST
    debbie - Quit parsing and start coming in at the start of a debate. The issue was, and is, this. The Left has decided to defend the actions of their Godhead, the NYT, by claiming that everyone knew about the US using SWIFT. My point is, and was, show me proof that the institution SWIFT and the US WOT activities were publicly linked and well known prior to the NYT articles. What I have seen so far is a lot of talk about the US tracing financial transactions, but nothing that said, "We're doing this through SWIFT." Now, the video didn't work (again) so I went to and what did I find from Oberman?
    Keith takes on the SWIFT program and all that attack the NY Times. It may not have been such a secret after all. Count all the times Bush told the world that he was chasing down the terrorists money. Looks to me and Roger Cressey like there has been no damage done by the NY Times. Just another con game for this administration
    Link First, SWIFT is an institution, not a "program." So the first sentence is not correct, and an obvious attempt to have people think that it just another WOT program. Typical trick of the Left, trying to change the meaning of words. That is just another excuse claiming that the terrorist knew, etc. Heck and one more time and all that good stuff. Everyone knew we were doing it. They just didn't know who with and how. i.e. They didn't know we were using SWIFT. And SWIFT was important because of its size, huge, and its European location. Now, because of the NYT article, SWIFT is being investigated by Belgium and Ireland is speaking of pulling out. Now do you understand the damage done? And why? As I have linked to several times, the NYT was criticizing Bush in 2001 for not doing this very thing. Debbie, can you spell POLITICS at the expense of our national defense and the safety of our troops currently engaged in battle? Where and how do you think the terrorists in Iraq get money to buy ammo and supplies??

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by roger on Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 08:51:20 AM EST
    Jim, I stubbed my toe yesterday, it is the end of civilization as we know it. If you really think that anyone was put in danger by this, there is nothing that anyone can say to you

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#56)
    by soccerdad on Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 08:52:34 AM EST
    PPJ take your own advice and stop parsing - you just look foolish- yet again

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 09:34:25 AM EST
    I understand that you support Bush no matter what proof is given to you that he is incompetent. I am not parsing words. I am stating facts. You complained first that people could not prove that what we were doing through SWIFT was public. After that was proven to you, you have changed your argument. Now you say:
    Everyone knew we were doing it. They just didn't know who with and how. i.e. They didn't know we were using SWIFT.
    Pleeeaaaaseee!!!! Read what you wrote. It does not matter what we called it or what we were doing the world and the terrorists knew we were doing it. The government said:
    With international cooperation on asset-freezes (as well as travel bans and arms embargoes under UN resolutions), we force terrorists into less reliable and more costly means of moving money.
    This is on a government: website:
    5) Concerted international action through multilateral organizations and groups, notably the Financial Action Task Force on Money Laundering (FATF) and the United Nations.
    This on SWIFT: 2. Cooperation - SWIFT has a history of cooperating in good faith with authorities such as central banks, treasury departments, law enforcement agencies and appropriate international organisations, such as the Financial Action Task Force (FATF*), in their efforts to combat abuse of the financial system for illegal activities.
    Where and how do you think the terrorists in Iraq get money to buy ammo and supplies??
    I guess this program hasn't worked very well. I guess POLITICS spells support Bush no matter what your eyes, ears, or brain tells you.

    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#58)
    by Edger on Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 11:09:47 AM EST
    PRESIDENT ANGRILY DENOUNCES TRAITOROUS PINKO NEW YORK TIMES FOR "REVEALING" HIS PUBLIC PROMISE TO IMPLEMENT EXECUTIVE ORDER #13224:
    THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Last week, The New York Times disclosed details of a kinda-secret program that my Administration publicly announced in order to fight the global scourge of journalism. There is no greater threat to America than journalists, and I am committed to continuing to wage my War On Journalism. Oh, f*ck me with a shovelful of horny toads, I mean "Terrorism." Terrorism. This is what happens when I get all crazy mad. And believe me, I'm madder than a hungry cowpoke with a saddle full of biscuits galloping through a barren land without gravy. So for the New York Times to leak the "Duh!" obvious details of a program I told everyone about does great harm to the United States of America.


    Re: Friday Open Thread (none / 0) (#59)
    by Dadler on Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 11:41:30 AM EST
    Jim, Paranoia doesn't suit you. This administration, first and foremost, has dug themselves into a hole with lie after lie, incompetent act after incompetent act. They are ALWAYS going to be mistrusted, and if they weren't by the press we'd be in MUCH bigger trouble. This program isn't some national security secret, period, or you'd already see the editor you chose to run in being arressted. Period. The administration has f*cked itself with the public, the press, with the rest of the world. THEY are the problem, not a generally compliant MSM getting mildly uppity for once. Please. Just blowhard crap. And THE LARGER POINT IS these attacks have been carried out for amounts of money that IS NOT going to be affected in any way by computer models searching for a needle in a haystack. That is simple math. None of these things will tackle the real issues at the heart of all this hatred, madness, dysfunction, fear and idiocy modern humans of all stripes are CHOOSING to engage in.