Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally

By TChris, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 06:28:48 PM EST
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by TChris

After finding excuses for five straight years to skip the NAACP's annual meeting, President Bush decided to attend this year's event, already underway. He'll speak to the gathering on Thursday.

Every president for the past several decades has spoken to the group. Until now, Bush had been the exception.

"The Decider" decided to miss Julian Bond's speech. It would have been harder for him to endure than Stephen Colbert's roast (Google video).

Bond recounted a recent meeting with Bush, during which he invited him to make the mile trip from the White House to the convention.

He then harshly criticized the administration, slamming it for the war in Iraq, for abusing civil liberties, using the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks as an excuse, and implementing an economic policy that gives to the rich and takes from the poor.

"They have continued an assault on our civil liberties and civil rights, orchestrated a mass transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top, increased poverty every year they've been in office, created dangerous deficits, substituted religion for science, ignored global warming and wrecked environmental protections," he said of the current administration.

This NY Times story discusses the GOP's failed effort to win over the hearts and minds (and more importantly, the votes) of African Americans. The president's last ditch effort to "tout his civil rights record" will be met with similar incredulity. The president's civil rights record can be summed up in simple words: Katrina. Guantanamo. Abu Ghraib. Wiretaps. Poverty rates (pdf). (Add a few of your own, if you like. The list is illustrative, not comprehensive.)

Trying to work with this president to protect civil rights is hopeless, and Bruce Gordon's keynote speech seemed to acknowledge the president's irrelevance (except as an impediment) to the civil rights struggle.

Gordon said he would like the president to show up but urged NAACP members to focus on more important issues, like state politics, Congress and voter registration.

"The Georgia voter ID law was passed by the state, not the president," he said, referring to a law -- temporarily blocked by a state court -- that would require Georgia voters to show photo identification at the polls.

"Gov. (Arnold) Schwarzenegger killed Stan 'Tookie' Williams, not the president. The governor of Pennsylvania has the power to give clemency to Mumia Abu-Jamal, not the president."

< New York Times Retracts Hillary Clinton Story | Bye Bye Reed >

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Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally | 73 comments (73 topical)

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#1)
by squeaky on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 07:02:08 PM EST

Gordon was a executive at verizon. He seems very republican to me. This could wind up getting ugly.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#2)
by orionATL on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 08:08:46 PM EST

the details on this and on bush's appearance are irrelevant. the point is: bush does not give a rat's ass for black americans rights or needs. he only does this because rove has told him it will be useful - specifically, bush's appearance will sow doubt among black americans about who to support. for me, the real question is: just how uncaring for their flock and venal are some black preachers -, preachers who, not infrequently, can be counted upon to deliver a specific message to the benefit of themselves and not their parishioners. and while i am at it: what about the public funds spent by the white house office of "faith based initiatives" - did this office provide the traditional "walk around money" in 2004 ? of course now, it would be called "grants".

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#3)
by cpinva on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 09:28:00 PM EST

orionATL said, in part:

the point is: bush does not give a rat's ass for black americans rights or needs.

i would respectfully disagree. i came to the realization that mr. bush is not a racist, he is a "socio-economicist". i recently had this epiphany myself. i am a 50 year-old, white, upper middle-class male. it dawned on me, in a rare moment of clarity, that i have far more in common with an upper middle-class, college educated black male, than i do with a poorly educated white male, in the lower economic strata. the same would go for a hispanic or asian male, in similar circumstances. these are the people i will invariably gravitate towards, in any gathering, like a moth to flame, and they to me. we understand each other, better than we do our lesser accutered bretheran. these are the guys in the ymca locker room, the ones who, along with their wives and families, my wife and i, and our children, mostly socialize with, race be damned. these are my fellow professionals: drs, lawyers, cpa's, engineers, etc. i can talk to them without feeling like i am being condescending, they understand me. it isn't that i dislike those in the lower socio-economic classes, it's just that we have little in common, aside from our shared humanity. would i help them out, should the opportunity present itself, and i were able? sure, of course. but, i would not ordinarily socialize with them, nor would i, as a rule, deal directly with them on the job, i would deal with my peers, their bosses. this is where bush is coming from. the katrina victims could have been black, white, yellow or purple, that mattered little to the prez. what did matter was their socio-economic status: he hadn't a clue, they didn't really exist in his world, other than as annoying background noise. that, my friends, is the new "racism", only now it's "classism", and it transcends racial and gender boundaries.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#4)
by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 09:42:27 PM EST

And when we say "speak" we mean... well, recite... and run... yes, recite and run - that's what we mean.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#5)
by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 10:48:25 PM EST

It has been my experience that he that grandiloquently describes himself as upper in matters of class has none.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#6)
by jondee on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 11:51:52 PM EST

Racism always was classism. It's about denigrating and dehumanizing those that you exploit in order to make it seem morally acceptable.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#7)
by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 05:21:07 AM EST

Jondee,

I think this is a chicken or the egg sort of thing. People are more comfortable exploiting those they percieve as different (in race, class, dialect, lifestyle, ect.), and helping those they percieve as the same. It's just easier to empathize. Naturally, racial and class biases end up tightly intertwined.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#8)
by roxtar on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 05:24:23 AM EST

Please, please, please tell me this will be broadcast live on C-SPAN or BET.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#9)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 05:24:47 AM EST

cpinva - Since I was born a poor white boy, I can tell you that this has been around since the pyramid contracts were given to a friend of a friend. et al - The NAACP has become nothing more than an extension of the Demos. Bush is dumb for even bothering.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#11)
by James DiBenedetto on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 07:02:44 AM EST

If I recall, it was the NAACP back in the 2000 election that ran an ad tying then-Governor Bush to the murder of James Byrd, with a member of Byrd's family saying on camera that seeing Bush oppose a hate crimes law was just like watching Byrd be murdered all over again. (a law that would not have made the slightest difference in the Byrd case, as his killers were very quickly caught, were tried and convicted, and, sentenced to death for two of them and life in prison for the third) All other considerations aside, why would Bush speak to a group that ran such an ad against him? Would anybody on here voluntarily go before an organization that had so slandered YOU and speak politely at their convention?

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#12)
by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 07:07:47 AM EST

I'm not racist, I just don't like interacting w/ stupid poor people.

What is wrong with that? Do you hang out with stupid poor people? Why would you want to? BTW, I do not equate uneducated with stupid. Watch 'Cops' sometime and tell me if you want to hang out with those people.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#13)
by Slado on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 07:09:38 AM EST

What I love about this arguemnt by liberals is the president can't win. If he goes he's pandering. If he doesn't he hates black poeple. Blah, blah, blah. The sad fact is the NAACP isn't what it used to be. What does it actually do now? The movement for equal rights has passed this orginization by IMHO and the NAACP refuses to deal with the real issues facing black america today. Mainly, drug abuse, unwed mothers, absentee fathers, gang culture etc... The fact that Bill Cosby is villified by the NAACP and other prominent civil rights leaders of today only shows that Mr. Bush doesn't stand a chance. If he goes of course he's pandering to the NAACP, he is a politician isn't he? Is Hillary pandering when she attends NARAL rallies? Is McCain pandering when he attends Liberty University. When did pandering become a sign that a politician was bad?

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#14)
by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 07:34:59 AM EST

Hi TL, I apologize for this offtopic post, and I will read you no matter what, but not necessarily any where you write. I hope this isn't true! As Shandy says about Rosenbaum, you *are* better than this. Given all the ugliness that Roger L. Simon has stirred up on his website, the smears of politicians, the smears of democrats, etc., I urge you to think long and hard about giving Roger any credibility by associating your name with his projects. Please don't put any money into Roger's pockets. Thank you for your consideration,

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#15)
by kdog on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 08:04:17 AM EST

It has been my experience that he that grandiloquently describes himself as upper in matters of class has none

Well said Oscar.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#16)
by Repack Rider on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 08:27:53 AM EST

Watch 'Cops' sometime and tell me if you want to hang out with those people.

I do. My two most experienced employees are Black men who have a total of three felony stretches at San Quentin, adding up to over a decade of prison time. One of my friends just hit the streets again after doing a few months for a parole violation, and I hired both of them a week out of prison. I'm a white, 60-year old guy raised in the suburbs, a former National Merit Scholar. Not only do the three of us get along, we are great friends. Your point?

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#17)
by oldtree on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 08:32:49 AM EST

I am more and more saddened these last several days to see more and more racism appearing in the blogs that are usually populated by progressives. Terrorism is terrible! (unless it is against jews) immigration is terrible (unless it is political suicide to speak of it) it may be that more of the folks that lean to that point of the right where they fear and hate so many people. truth is a terrible thing if you don't understand it. truth is not something many can talk about, because they lie. so try this, don't lie. if someone asks you a question that you don't wish to answer, don't. if you find this causes you problems in your life or work, you don't have a life, and your work is part of the problem. good luck to us all. truth, no matter what it is, is better than the alternative

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#18)
by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 08:42:53 AM EST

Posted by Repack Rider July 19, 2006 09:27 AM Watch 'Cops' sometime and tell me if you want to hang out with those people. I do. My two most experienced employees are Black men who have a total of three felony stretches at San Quentin, adding up to over a decade of prison time. One of my friends just hit the streets again after doing a few months for a parole violation, and I hired both of them a week out of prison. I'm a white, 60-year old guy raised in the suburbs, a former National Merit Scholar. Not only do the three of us get along, we are great friends. Your point?

I'm guessing that they are not "stupid" or they would not be working for you. Clearly most of the people on 'Cops' ARE stupid. Your employees either have not been on 'Cops' or they are exceptions.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#19)
by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 08:46:45 AM EST

Terrorism is terrible! (unless it is against jews)

Who has ever said that?

immigration is terrible (unless it is political suicide to speak of it)

Can you say ILLEGAL immigration? Why do people like you always feel the need to drop that adjective?

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#20)
by cmpnwtr on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 08:47:51 AM EST

All of this discussion and the poisonous and exclusive self-identification with class, race, party, ideology, is the kind of hateful tribalism that erodes civic culture in America and the world. I am hoping a new generation of politics will emerge that emphasizes the building of community rather than its tearing down. I like the message of John Edwards of "One America." I would like to see other leaders build on that theme.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#21)
by kdog on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 09:01:39 AM EST

You're right Granola...I'd never hang out with cops on that show.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#22)
by cpinva on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 09:27:20 AM EST

oscar wilde said:

and you're still dead, so who really cares what you so grandeloquentlty think? oh, btw, if you're going to try and be witty, learn to spell. kdog said:

not really. it wasn't very good when the real oscar wilde said it. you both need to filch a higher class of quotes. try samuel clemens. BooBear said, in part:

Cpinva, You, sir, are pathetic. And it's no wonder that you are. Anyone that would limit their social interactions to their "fellow professionals" is obviously deluded, arrogant, and living in a bubble of conceit and cash.

and you sir, are a presumptious ass. you presume to know me, and what i limit myself too. you don't, not even close. yes, you are an arrogant ass, barely worthy of response. you, and these other idiots, all with your crystal balls, think you have me pegged, on the basis of a single post. again, you don't. that i feel more comfy with my peers is perfectly normal. you lie, to us and yourselves, if you assert otherwise. this doesn't mean i attempt to never be around others, and i stated nothing of the sort in my original post. you are the pathetic ones really, lying to yourselves. sad, so sad.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#23)
by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 09:44:56 AM EST

cpinva- these people think that smoking a joint with a Jamaican cab driver equates to socializing with the lower classes. Let them spend some time with some poor white trash and see how they like it.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#24)
by kdog on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 09:48:05 AM EST

cp...agree to disagree...i like the quote. I tend to agree with you that our current leader(s) could be more aptly accused of classism than racism. Part of being a leader of such a vast array of people is having to "take your medicine" once in awhile...I don't know why Bush waited so long to take his from the NAACP. It's part of the job...part of being a leader.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#25)
by kdog on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 09:56:30 AM EST

these people think that smoking a joint with a Jamaican cab driver equates to socializing with the lower classes.

I think smoking a joint with a cab driver, asking him about his upbringing and life experience and sharing my own IS socializing...though in my own case within my own economic strata. Just as smoking a joint with George Bush and discussing the same would be. I think we are confusing two different definitions of class....one meaning economic status and one meaning character. The two do not often meet. Some of the lowest economic class of people have the most class...some of the highest economic class people have no that's what Wilde was on about. Somebody who goes out of his way to tell you how upper class he is doesn't have any class. Very true. I'll take character over a fat checkbook in my friends everyday of the week.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#26)
by Che's Lounge on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 10:00:52 AM EST

Education does not equal wisdom.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#27)
by kdog on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 10:01:01 AM EST

some of the highest economic class people have no that's what Wilde was on about

Bad editing...s/b class people have none. That's what Wilde was on about.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#28)
by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 10:49:14 AM EST

Kdog- I agree w/ your cabdriver comment, but if that is the extent of your interaction w/ people of lower classes you are no different than cpinva. His original comment referred to STUPID, poor people and that is what I was defending.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#29)
by chuckj on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 11:12:39 AM EST

Bush has appointed more minorities than any other president. Why is he considered a racist? The whole thing is a crock. He's screwed whether he goes or not.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#10)
by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 11:20:37 AM EST

deleted

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#30)
by squeaky on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 11:29:13 AM EST

Culture trumps class and intelligence. I do agree that cpinva is sounding narrow minded here and has not entirely thought out his point or perhaps has just not articulated it well. There is much more we have in common with one another than not. But more often we focus on differences than similarities. It is usually when we feel insecure or when we think we have something to gain from a snub.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#31)
by kdog on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 11:36:31 AM EST

Granola...to determine whether someone is "stupid" or not, you must get to know them. Stupidity cannot be measured by appearances. To determine whether a poor person is poor and smart or poor and dumb requires more than a glance...or a viewing of an edited tv show like Cops. Jesus was poor and was arrested...yet he was very wise. If they had a Roman edition of Cops Jesus may well have been on it.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#32)
by Sailor on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 11:39:22 AM EST

chuckj, you should stop watching faux news if you believe that:

In Clinton's first term, 47% of those he appointed to the Cabinet were women or people of color. Bush had precisely the same percentage in his first term. By the end of Clinton's second term, his figure had risen to 52%. The seven nominations Bush has made in the past month raise his percentage to 50%

But some don't think Bush deserves much credit. His appointments below the Cabinet level have included a lower proportion of blacks and women than in Clinton's administration. Detractors fault his policies on affirmative action, civil rights and taxes for failing to help many minorities. His relations with civil rights groups are rocky; he is the first sitting president since Warren Harding (1921-23) who hasn't addressed the NAACP.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#33)
by kdog on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 11:40:13 AM EST

chuck...I don't think Bush is racist...but his policies lead me to believe he does have something against poor and working class people...aka classist.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#34)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 11:42:03 AM EST

et al - Knowing some of cpinva's other comments, I think he is being sarcastically pulling your collective legs.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#35)
by squeaky on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 11:42:38 AM EST

chuckj-

Non-white faces have been hired for big-ticket jobs so that a black woman vouches for an unjust war, a black man defends it, an Hispanic supervises the slaughter of civilians while another justifies the use of torture, and a Vietnamese refugee writes the law to maim civil liberties in America.

In fact, Clinton's court and cabinet appointments of minorities far exceeded those by any president before him, and African-Americans apparently constituted a higher percentage of Clinton's appointments than Bush's among positions that do not require Senate confirmation.... a Newsday analysis of federal personnel records for September 2000 and September 2002 concluded that when political appointments that don't require Senate confirmation are counted, "[b]lacks held 7 percent of administration jobs under Bush, less than half of the 16 percent they held under Clinton," and blacks held only 6 percent of "senior executive posts" under Bush, compared to 13 percent under Clinton.

You guys have no shame. Media Matters

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#36)
by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 11:59:01 AM EST

Posted by kdog July 19, 2006 12:36 PM Granola...to determine whether someone is "stupid" or not, you must get to know them. Stupidity cannot be measured by appearances. To determine whether a poor person is poor and smart or poor and dumb requires more than a glance...or a viewing of an edited tv show like Cops.

You've never seen 'Cops' have you? How about 'Jerry Springer'?

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#37)
by kdog on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 12:44:38 PM EST

I've seen Cops...I find myself rooting for the suspects. I understand where you're coming from...some people are mutants. No argument here. I just think that mutants come from all walks of life. Is Christie Brinkley's husband caught cheating with a 17 yr. old kid less of a dirtbag than the guy doing the same on Springer because he hangs at the Hamptons Polo Club as opposed to the front porch? I think not.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#38)
by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 12:49:53 PM EST

OK, so after not appearing before the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People for five years, Bush has tentatively agreed to speak to the group on Wednesday in what aides said was the latest White House effort to improve relations with African-American leaders. Whatever! African-American Political Pundit says: I don't get why it is so important for N.A.A.C.P. officials to lobby for Mr. Bush to speak to the group. We alreasy know what Mr. Bush stands for. They could have spent the time developing strategies to rebuild African-American communities with the billions of dollars African-Americans waste each year on useless products, rather than relying on government to fix everything. The Washington Post reports, With the appearance, Bush will avoid becoming the first president since Warren G. Harding to snub the predominantly black organization throughout his term. After Katrina, Iraq, and years of Bush, why should the N.A.A.C.P. care about Bush's place in history? I guess in the big picture of things a new President of the United States or a new President of the N.A.A.C.P. for Black-America makes little difference.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#39)
by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 01:32:50 PM EST

not really. it wasn't very good when the real oscar wilde said it.

I'm quite sure if the darling Oscar had penned what I wrote he undoubtably would have spelled it correctly.

and you're still dead, so who really cares what you so grandeloquentlty think?

Dead and turned to dust, but from six feet under, a pretentious ass fails to go unnoticed.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#40)
by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 01:52:21 PM EST

Posted by kdog July 19, 2006 01:44 PM I've seen Cops...I find myself rooting for the suspects. I understand where you're coming from...some people are mutants. No argument here. I just think that mutants come from all walks of life. Is Christie Brinkley's husband caught cheating with a 17 yr. old kid less of a dirtbag than the guy doing the same on Springer because he hangs at the Hamptons Polo Club as opposed to the front porch? I think not.

If the only thing the guy on the porch is doing is some 19 y.o. then I guess they are equal dirtbags, but you don't get on Cops by doing 19 year olds.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#41)
by chuckj on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 08:35:42 AM EST

Doesn't sound racist to me. As for your negatism, ask the millions of Iraqis if they appreciate what we're doing there. 80-90% support us, I've been there, seen it and lived with the Iraqis. The real story isn't told. Doing the right thing is sometimes unpopular and painful. But ask the millions of people who followed Hitler, Tojo and countless other evil men, if eliminating them early would have saved lives.

chuckj, you should stop watching faux news if you believe that: In Clinton's first term, 47% of those he appointed to the Cabinet were women or people of color. Bush had precisely the same percentage in his first term. By the end of Clinton's second term, his figure had risen to 52%. The seven nominations Bush has made in the past month raise his percentage to 50%

OK, so he only has 50% women and minorities. Does that sound like a racist? I don't see that kind of ratio anywhere, except maybe at the NAACP. To anyone who thinks Bush is a racist: Pull you head out of your butt and grow a brain!

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#42)
by Sailor on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 09:59:12 AM EST

ask the millions of Iraqis if they appreciate what we're doing there. 80-90% support us

where the heck do you get your numbers!? It's almost the opposite:

Asked whether they view the U.S.-led coalition as "liberators" or "occupiers," 71% of all respondents say "occupiers."

That figure reaches 81% if the separatist, pro-U.S. Kurdish minority in northern Iraq is not included.

and

82 per cent are "strongly opposed" to the presence of coalition troops;

OK, so he only has 50% women and minorities. Does that sound like a racist?

stupid strawman, I never said he was a racist, I just pointed out that your information about bush was wrong. Just like you have been factually wrong about everything you've claimed. And since your arguments were based on wrong info, you should acknowledge that and, you know, modify your POV and admit you were wrong.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#43)
by chuckj on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 11:20:12 AM EST

I got my numbers from talking to hundreds of Iraqis, of all denominations. They were mostly Kurds and Shia, but some were Sunni. I was there during the first elections. It's true that they want us to leave, but that's not the whole story. If asked if they want us to leave now, they all say "no". It's also true that we're occupiers, that's a no-brainer. But the people still want us there and are glad we came. Yes, we're occupying, and that's what it takes to win. You do want us to win right? I did talk to a few people in Fallujah that didn't like us. They didn't like the fact that power had been taken from them. But almost all of the people I talked to idolize both Bush presidents. Our news organizations don't bring us the unbiassed reports, only what serves their beliefs. I was there, I lived it, I experienced it, I lived with Iraqis.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#44)
by Sailor on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 11:49:36 AM EST

riiiight, your ignorant ugly american on the ground anecdote trumps science. I repeat "82 per cent are "strongly opposed" to the presence of coalition troops;"

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#45)
by squeaky on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 12:13:06 PM EST

chuckj

Doesn't sound racist to me.

That was not the question. You made a bogus claim that the current admin has hired more minorities than any other. It was a lie, so when caught out you change the subject. You seem to be full of bogus statistiscs. This one is a real doozy:

As for your negatism, ask the millions of Iraqis if they appreciate what we're doing there. 80-90% support us, I've been there, seen it and lived with the Iraqis.

So you spoke to hundreds of Iraqis to get this unique and never reported fact. Wonder what the other 26,074,506 thought? Well we know what they think. Were you by any chance armed to the teeth when you asked? Or were you surrounded by merc body guards? Maybe you were in the Green Zone. Obviously the 500 that you polled were telling you what you wanted to hear. Whatever the case I have a bridge that I will sell you for cheap.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#46)
by chuckj on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 12:50:52 PM EST

That was not the question. You made a bogus claim that the current admin has hired more minorities than any other. It was a lie, so when caught out you change the subject. You seem to be full of bogus statistiscs.

The Bush administration has more minorities than any past president. If you include women as minorities, Clinton has him beat by a few percent. But if you just count minorities, as in race, Bush has the highest numbers. As for my small and unscientific poll, the trends are still revealing. I talked to several hundred people, maybe 300 maybe 800, I didn't count them all. The overwhelming opinion was "we are glad you came, thank you!" Regardless of how a poll taker forms the questions or defines terms such as "occupier" or "liberator", the people, in general, are happy we're there. It's true that much of the time I was armed, but not to the teeth as you refer. I usually had just a pistol. Sometimes I didn't have anything. I was not in the green zone ever. The exact nature of my work there can't be discussed, but I can say that my role there was as an advisor for nation building types of tasks. I had deep conversations with many Iraqis, which included some great arguments and discussions. We talked about everything from Iran and Imams to insurgents and religion. We disagreed on many points, so there was no need for them to hold any punches. I remember one Iraqi officer who disliked Americans, and was quite embarrassed about our victory over them, but he was happy that we'd changed things. He wanted us out, but not yet. He even admitted to me that he'd fought against us during the push to Baghdad. I had to win their trust by honesty and open conversations. The fact is, most news organizations don't know what's going on over there and never will. They just ask some simplistic poll questions and slant the results to their point of view. How do we even know what words were used? How do they translate? If those reporters ate, slept and lived with Iraqis for a few months, they'd know the real story. There are other points of vew out there. Look at some other polls and you'll see the numbers that I talk about.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#47)
by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 12:55:15 PM EST

Note: The NAACP is an anachronism. Its time has not only passed it has become hoary and an embarrassment to the professionals of color in America who no longer need a crutch for walking life's walk in the USA. They deserve thanks for the past; they deserve ridicule for living in the past. As I explained to my children when they turned 18, sorry for the mistakes made in raising you, sorry for the way the world will set about treating you, sorry for the sorrow that may come your way- but if you use any of that as an excuse for not making it in America, you are blaming your personal failure on outside matters and will end up being a loser. Be mature and don't make excuses. Keep fighting for your happiness no matter the odds. What you gain is yours and don't feel guilty about doing better than the lazy losers with the tons of excuses. If you do well, help those who have true needs due to their physical or mental handicaps (about 1% of Americans). But always remember you are an individual and this country gives individual rights to pursue the future. Group rights belong in the collective societies that are always behind our country in opportunity. And by the way there will be Republican Presidents and Democrat Presidents, the truth is your life will be little affected by who is president of the USA or NAACP or Urban League, or whatever organization, but there will always be those who blame the leaders for their own failures. Oh and for proof, see how Clinton addressing the meetings has really changed the losers' lives! Or Nixon or Carter or Bush. If you really want to change the world, be successful and be an example to your children!

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#48)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 01:18:41 PM EST

Hang in there, chuckj, yours is a voice this blog has been desperately needing for a long time.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#49)
by jondee on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 01:35:13 PM EST

For that matter any organization or instituion that exists to represent or lobby for the interests of any organized group of indivuals; be they senior citizens, gun owners, or disabled persons, should all be done away with. After all, dosnt the mere existence of such organizations imply that the indivuals they claim to represent cant stand on their own two feet in this land of unparalleled opurtunity?

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#50)
by Sailor on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 01:42:32 PM EST

SUO, he got completely mistaken 3 times, we don't need no more voices of inaccuracy and confusion.

it has become hoary and an embarrassment to the professionals of color in America who no longer need a crutch for walking life's walk in the USA

translation: I got mine, screw you jack!

The fact is, most news organizations don't know what's going on over there and never will.

Uhh, the second poll numbers were from the Brits military. And even the VOA has been too frightened to keep a Baghdad bureau for over 6 months because the situation is so unsafe. btw chuckie, were you carrying a gun when you asked iraqis if they like americans?

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#51)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 02:02:46 PM EST

Sailor, I should have been more clear. If he did do time in Iraq, I want to hear what his experiences were and opinions are. Not that this makes his opinion trump all others, but we've all been armchair blowhards for a long time, it'd be good to hear some first-hand commentary for once. Regarding your comment about his inaccuracy and confusion, most any newbie here (assuming they are new to this type of blogging) probably has the same issues. Give him some time to get in the TL/blogging groove. I hope he stays.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#52)
by Peaches on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 02:24:46 PM EST

The exact nature of my work there can't be discussed, but I can say that my role there was as an advisor for nation building types of tasks.

WTF, What were you an assassin? James Bond? Okay, I can get it. I know national security. But, then why should we believe a fricken word you say about informal polls. You were operating in the undercurrents of a recently7 defeated and a country in complete chaos. If you were who you say you were, then the people you interacted with obviously wanted to gain your influence so they could be the ones holding power at the end of the day. Your 80% poll is worthless. That said, stick around. Loved to hear more of your james bond stories.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#53)
by Sailor on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 02:36:05 PM EST

his 80% poll is worse than useless, it is contrary to usefulness because it denies reality. I think what we have here is another gov't employee trying to spread propaganda.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#54)
by chuckj on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 03:30:41 PM EST

WTF, What were you an assassin? James Bond?

That's funny. No, nothing like that. I worked as an advisor for MNSTC-I, the Multi-National Security Tranistion Command, Iraq. There was no James Bond stuff in my group. I volunteered for the job and was accepted based on my occupational specialty, which is security. I advised on many aspects of security and also just plain normal infrastructure topics. I just can't talk about specifics, names, or security policies, etc. I have a security clearance to maintain, and the lives of those who I advised at stake. Hence the "no details" comment. For the sake of your arguments, I can see how you wouldn't accept my "poll" results. They don't support your twisted view. But my 80-90% number wasn't a poll, it was on-the-ground experience dealing with the Iraqi people.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#55)
by chuckj on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 03:41:59 PM EST

Note: The NAACP is an anachronism. Its time has not only passed it has become hoary and an embarrassment to the professionals of color in America who no longer need a crutch for walking life's walk in the USA.... and Be mature and don't make excuses. Keep fighting for your happiness no matter the odds....

Very well said. My in-laws are from Mexico and believe in that concept deeply. They raised their daughters with that in mind. My wife is embarrassed by the latin community who demand compensation for everything, those who refuse to be a part of a prosperous nation, those who would rather wave a foreign flag than get an education and work. My father-in-law, is so sickened by the activists, he feels shamed by their ignorant behavior.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#56)
by Sailor on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 04:20:42 PM EST

They don't support your twisted view.

Our numbers arebased on facts and science. Yours are are just made up.

But my 80-90% number wasn't a poll, it was on-the-ground experience dealing with the Iraqi people.

I call BS.

Then you must be a failure. Less electricity, fewer schools, fewer rights for women, civil war, less clean water, less oil production ... no wonder iraq is such a mess if this person was there doing 'nation building.' SUO, why would you want to hear more from a person who is so obviously out of touch with reality?

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#57)
by chuckj on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 04:53:17 PM EST

Then you must be a failure. Less electricity, fewer schools, fewer rights for women, civil war, less clean water, less oil production ... no wonder iraq is such a mess if this person was there doing 'nation building.'

All of that is untrue. In the cities that I was in, electricity under Saddam was only turned on for an hour or two per day, unless the home had a generator. This was even true in Basra, one of their largest cities. Now the power is turned on most of the time, but sometimes interupted by insurgents and not from infrastructure problems. The power isn't always on, but on much longer now. I still have a good Friend in Basra that I email now and then, and it's one of the things we talked about. The Iraqis have so many more things now, and you have no idea what you're saying. Even homes in the countrside have satelite TV and internet. It's funny seeing a mud house with a satelite dish. Your comments about schools, water and women are way off too. I watched in amazement after the first election as women walked in the streets and displayed their blue fingers. I saw people dancing in the steets, not just men, but women too. You can call BS, or say I was a failure, or say I made it up. But I know what I did and what I saw. You may choose not to believe me, and that's your right. I didn't fail at anything I did over there. All of my security projects were successful and I have lasting Iraqi friends there. Sure, we had setbacks, but we made good progress and made a difference in the lives of people. You are too negative. Why don't you try to go out and do some good. Why don't you go to Iraq and help them. Show them what freedom is and how good we Americans are. I did, and it changed my life.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#58)
by Sailor on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 06:47:50 PM EST

chuckie, you can't provide a single link to your fantasies, I've provided links to all of my assertations, which prove them to be facts.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#59)
by squeaky on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 07:21:19 PM EST

All of that is untrue. In the cities that I was in, electricity under Saddam was only turned on for an hour or two per day, unless the home had a generator. This was even true in Basra, one of their largest cities. Now the power is turned on most of the time, but sometimes interupted by insurgents and not from infrastructure problems.

It is clear that we have a government propagandist in our midsts or a pathalogical liar. Both spew the same swill but for different reasons.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#60)
by jondee on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 08:18:27 PM EST

Which organization has become an "anachronism" seems to depend on whichever organization is making Bush look bad. This week. At different times here it's been The Red Cross, Amnesty International, The Urban League, and of course, that perrenial threat to all things, good, wholesome and American (and precurser to the anti-christ) The U.N.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#61)
by squeaky on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 09:23:11 PM EST

The event was not volatile or ugly at all from what I could tell. Rther milquetoast

Bush said he and Gordon have had frank talks about the challenges blacks face following the hurricane. "We found areas where we share common purpose, and we have resolved to work together in practical ways," Bush said. "I don't expect Bruce to become a Republican -- and neither do you. But I do want to work with him, and that's what I'm here to talk to you about."

Seems like Gordon is not a Republican after all. Bush evidentially did not offer any solutions or insights regarding the issue of racism in America. A veritable non event except that by finally showing up he paid his respects to the NAACP. link

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#62)
by squeaky on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 09:47:53 PM EST

Unbelievable, Bush pitched eliminating the Estate Tax at the NAACP.

President Bush's "death tax" pitch demonstrates his stunning disconnect from the African-American community. According to an American Progress analysis, just 59 African-Americans will pay the estate tax this year, and that number will drop to 33 in 2009.

think progress

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#63)
by desertswine on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 10:44:47 PM EST

It is clear that we have a government propagandist in our midsts...

Undoubtedly so. A pimp. BUSTED!

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#64)
by chuckj on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 08:22:47 AM EST

It is clear that we have a government propagandist in our midsts or a pathalogical liar.

It is so easy to throw insults via web or email. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. In any event, I'm neither a government propagandist nor a pathological liar. I was simply an advisor to the Iraqi government. There is a record of our activities, and I've provided a link, here: http://www.mnstci.iraq.centcom.mil/docs/advisor/archive/advisor_archive.htm. It's quite broad in its scope, and admittedly slanted to the command's view, but an interesting record of our activities. Some of my personal, particular activities are well documented and I have .pdf copies of these documents. Getting them to you or sharing with the world is something I'd love to do. The question is how to do it. I also kept a weekly journal which are .doc formats. I'd love to share them with any of you, but I'd need help on how to publish them or get them on the web, etc.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#65)
by squeaky on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 08:51:45 AM EST

chuckj-I looked at your link and it is clearly a Government Propaganda operation. Their magazine The Advisor starts off with a disinformation piece by Rumsfield. A paraphrase of one of the oft repeated gems is that if we were not fighting "terrorists" in Iraq they would come here and try to take over America. The pictures are heartwarming and goosbumpy, if you live in a vacuum, that is. If you need help disseminating your disinformation, just give Rummy a call, he will set you up.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#66)
by desertswine on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 09:43:58 AM EST

CENTCOM team engages bloggers. "Blogs sometimes include information -- accurate and otherwise -- about the US military's global war on terror. US Central Command officials here took notice and created a team to engage these writers and their electronic information forums." ... in other words 'to disseminate mis-information as paid shills.'

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#67)
by chuckj on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 09:46:19 AM EST

That's all great and well, and I agree with you. However, that is what I did in Iraq. That is the organization I worked for. All the touchy-feely pictures and articles are obviously someone's point of vew, just like any other magazine. But, there is no disinformation from me there or here. I have always been a very honest man and have given true account of my activities over there. My intent and offer to share my other documents with you or anyone else is a sincere wish to show you some good things. Is there a way to post images or files on this site? Comments like "give Rummy a call" don't help, and are kind of childish. What I'm saying is; We don't need insults or adolescent comments, I have good accounts of what I've said, how can I present them?

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#68)
by squeaky on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:11:14 AM EST

Yes, chuckj, I am sure that evangelical missionaries have only good intentions and beleive in their mission. You are barking up the wrong tree, not to mention wrong thread. This thread is about Bush and the NAACP.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#69)
by Peaches on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:13:54 AM EST

Chucky, You've exhausted all your bullets. Desertswine put the nail in the coffin. You're a paid shill if there ever was one.

But, there is no disinformation from me there or here. I have always been a very honest man and have given true account of my activities over there. My intent and offer to share my other documents with you or anyone else is a sincere wish to show you some good things.

ROTFLMAO

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#70)
by Sailor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:38:08 AM EST

you linked to the gov't propaganda site, that should be good enough ... or you could start your own blog.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#71)
by roy on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:44:39 AM EST

Back on topic, the chairman (or maybe some other bigwig) of the NAACP was on the Colbert Report last night, discussing the speech. He liked the joke with which Bush opened, but was otherwise unimpressed. Bush didn't address the issues on which the NAACP focuses. Go figure. Colbert made a better impression; the chairman is in the running to be his new "black friend". Funniest thing I've seen on TV in a long time.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#72)
by chuckj on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:48:08 AM EST

Yes, this is the wrong thread to talk about Iraq. It started with someone's comments about how minorities are fighting it, supporting it, etc. I'm no paid shill, missionary or propagandist, just a guy who volunteereed to go over as an advisor. I'm not an advisor anymore, and have a nice normal job in Southern California. I put forward my accounts as a contrast to some of the incorrect information I saw here. I understand your resistance to what I've said, but it is informed conversation that makes it interesting. It's unfortunate that people can't just ask me questions, and disagree, or converse without name calling or throwing insults. There's nothing wrong with hearing different opinions, especially if they're first hand accounts instead of TV, radio or web.

Re: Bush Will Speak to NAACP ... Finally (none / 0) (#73)
by Sailor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:53:47 AM EST

chuckie, please start your own blog, it sounds like the perfect venue for what you want.

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