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Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread

Update 4:15 pm MT: Huffpo says the results will come at 8:35 pm ET. Daily Kos and Firedoglake have the real scoop on Lieberman's site going down. He paid for a cheap hosting service and it overloaded. Lamont offered him tech advisors to help. But Joe went with another cheap host, so don't be surprised if it happens again.

I'm out at the jail and won't be back until just about 6:30 (8:30 ET) when I'll begin live blogging the results, updating with news as it comes out and what other blogs are saying. So check back in if you can.

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Original Post:

It's going to be a long day. Firedoglake and their commenters are reporting live.

This thread is for all topics related to Lieberman and Lamont, but I'll start with addressing the fallacy that the media is spinning that if Lamont wins, it's due to bloggers.

Chris Bowers at MyDD, still live-blogging from Lamont headquarters at 2:30 a.m. last night, says whether Lamont wins or loses, Wednesday will be a bad press day for bloggers and the netroots:

If Lamont loses, we will be branded as ineffectual, irrelevant, extremist, and destructive. If Ned Lamont wins, we will be branded as powerful, relevant, extremist, and destructive. Both descriptions are inaccurate and unfair because this goes so far beyond the blogosphere, but if I have to choose I would much rather have the second one be the story. If we are going to get trashed and be forced to take credit for the fantastic work of others, I would at least like to get trashed as powerful and relevant. I do not know a single netroots leader that is not behind Ned Lamont in this campaign, but at the same time arguing hat we are driving this campaign is preposterous. Still, win or lose, the press will hit us with their hammerstroke, and as idiotic as that will be, that is also fine by me.

....this campaign could have been a lesson to the establishment media that the progressive netroots are just a subset of the progressive movement, just as the progressive blogosphere is a subset of the progressive netroots. The progressive blogosphere is only about one-third of the progressive netroots, and the progressive netroots are only about on-third of the progressive movement (and the progressive movement has grown to about half the size of the Democratic Party).They could have learned about all of this, and they could have learned that the Internet side of the operation basically just functions as another department in the campaign, just like field, communications and political are departments within campaigns. They could have learned this, and learned how this movement is just itching to become a supplement to the Democratic Party and progressive politics as a whole, rather than against it. They could have learned this, but they would rather blame the downfall of the Democratic Party entirely upon a small handful of national bloggers who gather for drinks at Sullivan's. They could have learned this, but they did not.

Markos of Daily Kos yesterday made a similar point yesterday in debunking the idea that he or bloggers in general had anything to do with Lamont's victory, if there is one.

To me, it's insulting and rude to the real heroes of the Lamont effort -- win or lose -- who have done ALL the work. I didn't make a single phone call, I didn't walk a single precinct, I didn't lick any envelopes, or staffed an information booth at the local farmer's market.

I wrote about the race and suddenly people want to give this blog (and me) all sorts of credit/blame. Only the laziest of lazy reporters and pundits can lay this at the feet of me or any other blogger.

....Riffing off Bower's post, the progressive blogosphere is only a subset of the netroots. The netroots includes MoveOn, DFA, Wikis, Podcasters, ActBlue, and every email listserv and Google/Yahoo Group focused on politics. And bloggers. That we get a disproportionate amount of media coverage is because of the "flavor of the month" thing we've got going. I sure as heck don't believe the hype.

In other words, it's not the bloggers, it's all of the netroots. It's people-powered politics.

So to reiterate -- all those people and organizations above worked their asses off for the Lamont campaign. I sat on my ass and wrote about it. I'm about as relevant to winning the Connecticut primary as the 101st Fighting Keyboardists are in winning the war in Iraq.

Give credit where it's due. The people-powered movement isn't about blogs. In fact, most of its foot-soldiers don't even know what a blog is. It's about creating a new political order in which ordinary people can take charge of their political destinies and do something to make their country a better place. They're the heroes in all of this.

< Watching the Watchers | Lamont Wins, Lieberman Concedes, Will Run as Independent >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by aw on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 10:46:00 AM EST
    MSNBC seems to be really pushing the accusations against bloggers for attacks on the Lieberman website. Bloggers, for heaven's sake. How the heck are they making that connection? I haven't once heard whether they contacted the host. They just keep letting political operatives make the accusations. Chris Matthews has even been talking about a criminal investigation for a federal crime. He has no evidence whatsoever. It's making me crazy.

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by aw on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 11:25:36 AM EST
    Oh, yeah, Matthews was talking about voters who need a ride who would be hurt by an attack on Joe's website: old people whose kids have left home and they don't drive anymore, poor people who will just give up and watch TV all afternoon. Yeah, right, they use the internet but they can't pick up a phone?

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 11:55:22 AM EST
    It doesn't matter what the media says. Its job is to lie to us and keep us from getting uppity, so all that nonsense is what's to be expected. I will say, though, that if after all this Lamont loses, "people power" will have suffered a serious blow. I agree with that part of the propaganda offensive. Last few years we've been batting oh-for-one-zillion. Including stolen elections, of course.

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Peaches on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 12:03:25 PM EST
    "People power" is not riding on this election and it will not be delivered a blow if Lamont loses. "People Power" was delivered a much more severe blow from which it is still recovering on the night the "people" came out in force for Taylor Hicks. People Power? Democracy has very little to do with elections. Look at Afghanistan. Look at Iraq.

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by oldtree on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 12:49:51 PM EST
    I have only one thing to add, the "they will say" part. this is for us to control, not someone making an opinion of us. The interest in blogging and the sites and voices that are about to be rocketed into their 15 minutes will be enormous. But it is not going to change the nature of who we are. Whereas it will change the nature of how we are viewed. Certainly some will think us all of these descriptions, but most will deny that on their blogs and life will go on. it is the ones often considered as the wacked, or whacked if you think it is chemically induced, that are going to get more attention. Can you imagine the brain dead CNN infotainmentanchorpersonages and their leap to have something new for 15 minutes of excitement? They are going to be fed crap in their ears ( you all do know that what they say is scripted by someone speaking in their ears?) and they will vomit it up. it is just too bad that we have to have the idiot media outlets introduce so many people to the world of the blogs. But, we will attract that many more people to agree, or disagree. today's election clock is running. tomorrow begins the new world of blog. I would guess we will see this more important to the news every time we have a new election or primary. Perhaps then they will pick up on the crimes committed by the existing elected officials and start caring about truth? if we hold them to it and demand they stop forcing us to watch common large talking heads washing dirty laundry, we may have one for our side.

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 01:00:46 PM EST
    "People power" is not riding on this election and it will not be delivered a blow if Lamont loses. "People Power" was delivered a much more severe blow from which it is still recovering on the night the "people" came out in force for Taylor Hicks.
    A rule of thumb: every time the powers that be are freaking out, you're on to something. You bet your ace this is about people power. I'm well aware of Lamont's shortcomings, just as I was aware of Howard Dean's back in 2004. It's the context of this thing that's scaring the hell out of the "elites," not the actual candidates.

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Peaches on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 01:04:08 PM EST
    It's the context of this thing that's scaring the hell out of the "elites," not the actual candidates.
    The elite will come out smelling like roses, as they always have. If this is the battleground, they have nothing to lose.

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Deconstructionist on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 01:10:05 PM EST
    How do Lamont or Dean fail to qualify as "elites?" If this insurgency is to be led by ultra-rich New England prepsters, I really don't think the other elites are exactly quaking in their boots. "People power" is a bit ironic when the "people" are all still choosing from candidates among the monied class who show little inclination to alter a status quo that perpetuatesd their personal wealth and power.

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Lww on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 02:23:30 PM EST
    I heard Rush Limbaugh today talking about how important it is to have people "going into congress" who have "certain training, certain skills." Almost crashed the car. I guess that means a three week course in how to open the office door for AIPAC reps.

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Aaron on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 02:27:46 PM EST
    "...relentless attack by the blog sphere, and the more liberal elements of the Democratic Party" (Carl Cameron on Fox news). Is it over yet? Has Lieberman packed his bags and hit the bricks yet? I actually heard Anderson Cooper speaking to David Gergen on CNN, and Anderson actually said that this political development was a bad thing for governance, he agreed with Gergen that such political discontinuity was actually harmful to the US, if I understood him correctly. Unbelievable. I suppose such developments are harmful to those who think they can ignore truth and the will of the people. Every politician who gets their greedy little hands on power and then starts following those urges to go with their feelings instead of bending themselves to the will of their constituents, every one of them should be sent packing.

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by Punchy on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 02:36:36 PM EST
    Yawn... In the end, we'll have a Democrat. A bad ons vs. a good one, but a Dem nonetheless. Hell, if Leibs wins this, all bets are that he'll become the uber-Dem, just to prove his loyalty. So, in the end, all this blogosphere crap and the result is a Dem in Conn. BFD....

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:08:59 PM EST
    How do Lamont or Dean fail to qualify as "elites?" If this insurgency is to be led by ultra-rich New England prepsters, I really don't think the other elites are exactly quaking in their boots.
    Oh for crying out loud. Will you people read my damn posts again? I don't care about the specific nature of the specific candidates. Both men are riding waves of popular contempt for the way this country's been run the last thirty years and the "elites" are freaking out. This contempt and anger is to be in no way acknowledged or catered to, or it will just be stirred up. They're quite right about that. So I'm all for it. Look at what they do and not at what they say. Their hatred for these turns of events is clear, and it speaks volumes. Go with this. Take the victory. Then ratchet up the pressure.

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:32:15 PM EST
    i hope a liberman loss will be just the beginning of "the great unraveling"

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by chuckj on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 05:03:19 PM EST
    Am I the only who realizes that if Lamont wins, the real winners will be the Republicans?

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by TomK on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 05:04:46 PM EST
    I guess Liberman has run out of Jomentum. Let's get out a little fiddle for ole joe.

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 05:13:19 PM EST
    the real winners will be the Republicans?
    chuckj...then you should be hoping he wins since you are one.

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 05:42:18 PM EST
    Polls closed and very early results coming in. With only 5 percent of the vote counted: Lamont 60% Lieberman 40% Gonna be a long night. Let's hope the early lead widens!

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 07:16:52 PM EST
    You can't write if you can't relate Trade the cash for the beef for the body for the hate And my time is a piece of wax fallin' on a termite Who's chokin' on the splinters Soy un perdedor I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me? (Get crazy with the cheese whiz) Soy un perdedor I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me? (Drive-by body-pierce) (Yo bring it on down) Soooooooyy...

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 07:25:37 PM EST
    You can't write if you can't relate. Trade the cash for the beef for the body for the hate. And my time is a piece of wax fallin' on a termite. Who's chokin' on the splinters. Soy un perdedor. I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me? (Get crazy with the cheese whiz). Soy un perdedor. I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me? (Drive-by body-pierce). (Yo bring it on down). Soooooooyy...

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 07:27:46 PM EST
    Punchy,Peaches, Don't let it bring you down. It's only castles burning. Neil Young It's a slow process. The ripples are what I'm interested in. Lamont, should he win in November, is a symbol of a movement. We need to nurture that movement. You and I may not agree with him as much as others, but we are witnessing an overt attempt at developing some kind of public forum that is an alternative to the MSM propaganda machine. That DOES scare them.

    Re: Lamont-Lieberman Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Peaches on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 07:23:07 AM EST
    Che, pneumat, Paul Wellstone scared 'em. When Lamont condemns Israel, they might start getting nervous. Right now, everything is going according to plan. Where are the elites freakin' out? The neocons are but one small little faction of the elites. The elites may be done with them, who knows? If that is the case, Lieberman is one small sacrificial lamb. After that, business as usual. Change may happen either fast or slow. Lamont represents slow change. I would prefer slow change. I just don't have confidence that slow change has the momentu to lead the revolutionary change necessary for a world living in peace while reducing the harm done to the environment.