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"They will Follow Us Here." Who's They?

By Jeralyn, Section War on Terror
Posted on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 04:28:46 PM EST
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(Guest Post by Big Tent Democrat)

President Bush repeated today that:

"If we withdraw before the job is done, the enemy will follow us here,'' Bush said, attributing the line to Gen. John Abizaid, the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq.

Two things. Who's they? And did Abizaid really say that? I seriously doubt it. I think that is another Bush lie.

Why would the Al Sadr's Mehdi army follow "us" home? Or the Badr Brigade? Or the Sunni insurgents? Why would these "terrorists" follow us home? As I understand it, the violence in Iraq is sectarian in nature. Why some folks believe Iraq is in a civil war. So, according to Bush, the "terrorists" will interrupt the violence in Iraq in order to follow us home? Does that make sense?

Well, General John Abizaid DID say this (as I stated before, I do not believe Abizaid said what Bush says he said):

I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I've seen it, in Baghdad in particular, and that if not stopped it is possible that Iraq could move toward civil war," Gen. John Abizaid testified at a hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Bush is a moron and a liar. He is capable of saying stupidities like Bush's line. Abizaid, to now, has not shown himself to be that. I think Bush should stand bravely by his own stupidities without trying to foist them on General Abizaid.

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    "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? | 19 comments (19 topical)
    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 04:43:30 PM EST
    Bush should stand bravely by his own stupidities "I stand by all the misstatements I've made." --George W. Bush

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#3)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 06:02:17 PM EST
    Why would these "terrorists" follow us home?
    Big Tent asks an interesting question. Indeed, you can pick whatever answer you want. But FIRST you need to understand that Bush is speaking of radical Moslem terrorists in general. And if you don't believe that a loss by the US in Iraq would embolden terrorists, then you are not going to believe any of the strategy that says we fight them THERE, not here. Of course, you also must believe that 9/11 didn't happen, and that the USS Colen didn't happen.... After all. Security is not important. You know that "security is." What's important is that the hated Bush is defeated....

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 06:49:18 PM EST
    Thanks, great post.

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 06:49:18 PM EST
    Some prosecutors claim to hold "show-trials" in order to "send a strong message". If this is a "show-war", for similar reasons, can we expect similar results? Does the Big Tent Democrat's question contemplate whether or not this is a "just war"? Does that make a difference? Do victims eventually have recourse through say, the United Nations, for their grievances? As informed by the Vietnam experience, many must believe withdrawal will end it. Is the very nature of the current "enemy" no longer the same? Another school of thought holds that when one is failing a task, rather than cutting back, one need take on even greater challenges. Iran would apparently seem to fulfill that fundamental of the equation. On 911, many leaders ducked for cover until convinced the attacks had stopped and then responded as if it were now "our" turn. Will "they" do the same? Sometimes, wars only stop when both sides are finally fully sick of it, or when one side has simply ceased to exist.

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 06:49:18 PM EST
    But FIRST you need to understand that Bush is speaking of radical Moslem terrorists in general.
    Ahhhhh, I see that is why we invaded Iraq because all the radical Moslem terrorists in general were there. Funny I thought it was WMD....errr Sadaam Hussein was a despot....errr bringing democracy to Iraq and the Middle East in a few decades...errrr fighting the radical Moslem terrorists in general in Iraq....... err....uh when did OBL go to Iraq again?

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 06:49:18 PM EST
    Bush is talking about who? Radical Islamists? And that means who? Embolden the terrorists to do what? Commit acts of terrorism? You think they need an American withdrawal in Iraq to do that? This is the logic we get from the Bush boobs. Earth to Bushniks - they already want to attack us. They don't need no stinkin withfrawal for that. Of course, the theory forwarded makes the Iraq Debacle even stupider than it ever was. Warth to B ushniks - being in Iraq embldens the terrorists. Always did. Osama's best friend remain Bushco and its acolytes. What a disaster for this country that such idiots have govened in this country.

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 07:23:26 PM EST
    Why would these "terrorists" follow us home?
    They're already here. They are hurriedly trying to arrange things so that a few more are motivated to come. Then they can say 'we told you so', of course... They (bush and co) create the problems themselves. Iran 'biggest beneficiary' of US war on terror
    "We've seen really since 9/11 that the chief beneficiary of America's global war on terror in the Middle East has been the very country that it considers to be a major part or a founding member of the axis of evil. "And that basically tells us that there's an enormous incoherence in American approach to the Middle East..."
    ------- --edger

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#8)
    by Sailor on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 07:48:14 PM EST
    Big Tent asks an interesting question.
    and ppj cherry picks another argument that he regurgitates a strawman on
    And if you don't believe that a loss by the US in Iraq would embolden terrorists
    but ppj, and bush, have never said what winning is. No WMDs ... check No Saddam ... check Elections ... check Freely Elected Government ... uhh, OK, check Are we there yet!?

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 08:17:35 PM EST
    There is a decent speach by Rocky Anderson at the anti war/bush rally in Utah. Onegoodmove

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 08:48:21 PM EST
    Why not fight them over here? It would certainly cost less and be much more difficult burying IEDs in your local 24hr supermarket.

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#12)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 09:35:53 PM EST
    if you don't believe that a loss by the US in Iraq would embolden terrorists, then you are not going to believe any of the strategy that says we fight them THERE, not here.
    First, a "loss" in Iraq is inevitable, since no one has ever defined "winning." On the other hand, we will certainly know "losing" when we see it. Second, only a complete fool would believe that terrorizing, torturing and killing the citizens of Iraq is an actual "strategy" to get them on our side. This insane practice, which does not merit the term "strategy," insures that even if they hadn't any ill will toward us, they do now. It is hard to believe that there are people who think you can make people stop hating you by killing their friends and relatives. The more you kill, the more the network of those who hate us, until we are down to the last surviving Iraqi. Where do you suppose Mr. Bush got the insane notion that killing a lot of people is a good way to make our country safe? How does anyone who voted for Bush sleep at night?

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 10:38:39 PM EST
    Oh and I forgot. The terrorists are here already. Unfortunately, it appears we are infested with taxi driver terrorists. They drive cabs during the day. A most excellent cover, and are out in the dead of night murdering people. Just ask Conrad Burns, you know three term Republican Senator on the Appropriations Comm. I am sure he would know all about those terrorists here. That's right, he's a Senator, he knows more than you do.

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#14)
    by bad Jim on Fri Sep 01, 2006 at 12:57:09 AM EST
    After the Vietnam war, an awful lot of Vietnamese and Cambodians did follow us home. They weren't communists, for the most part. It certainly changed the complexion of certain neighborhoods in Southern California. Of course, we've already got a substantial Arab and Iranian population here, so we're pretty well prepared for the next wave.

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Sep 01, 2006 at 07:34:21 AM EST
    The issue of "we're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here is that same old worn out scare tactic that was used during that other trumped up war: Vietnam. Now, it appears that Bush plans to dust that off and try it again, since it was so successful during Nam. I have previously posted on other sites the following comment in that respect, but perhaps it is appropriate to post again here: The "fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here" is a tired left over from the Vietnam era that is being resurfaced, dusted off, repackaged, and now being used by the GOP. It was the same rhetoric I heard just before I was sent to Vietnam the first time, and the same drum beat was going on when I was sent back the second time. It was sometime later that I, and the vast majority of the American people, realized we had been suckered into a trumped up war that cost us over 50,000 of our finest. Was it trumped up then? Remember the Tokin Gulf fiasco, how it was instigated to start the war, and the domino effect: if Vietnam falls, all the rest of SE Asia will follow? Well, Vietnam fell, to what we called "our enemy," a country that had never harmed this nation, and we never had to "fight them here" after all. Nor did SE Asia go to hell in a hand basket any more than its always been. Now, we are again fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here, in another trumped up war, though far more obvious, and again "an enemy" that never harmed nor attacked this nation. First it was those alleged WMDs and the imminent threat. When that failed to materialize, then we have to "take democracy to Iraq," a concept never surfaced nor mentioned in the run up to the war. That idea was invented by this administration as cover for a failed policy, which only because of bull headedness and the objectives of the big business and oil barons continues to cost us lives and fortune. The we are fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here is just as much a lie now as it was then! History will not look positively on this excuse for a president, his administration, nor,unfortunately, this great nation.

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Sep 01, 2006 at 07:38:33 AM EST
    What does it say about our borderland security if the president can claim that they're going to follow us over here?

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Sailor on Fri Sep 01, 2006 at 10:53:47 AM EST
    "they" are already here. see 9/11-you still can't grasp that simple fact, can you?
    so anon is saying that bush's basic premise is wrong? Hell, we've know that all along.

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#17)
    by jen on Fri Sep 01, 2006 at 04:36:36 PM EST
    Yean.. I remember the USS Cole that was docked in Denver, right?

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Sep 01, 2006 at 05:15:16 PM EST
    Say What? I'm so glad he's yours.

    Re: "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 01, 2006 at 07:11:08 PM EST
    Ah, so much stuff floating in the air I can't tell if someone has snuck in and built a cattle barn next door to the palatial retirement compound or the Lefties are spouting their usual... Jen - If you to claim that we should not be able to project US power around the world, and should withdraw to inside the US, that is certainly a position that has been tried before. I suggest you study the history of the world betweem 1920 and 12/7/41 to get a better understanding of the result of such policies. Sailor - As you know, but won't admit, Bush's strategy as stated in his 2003 SOTU is preemptive strikes.
    Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option. (Applause.)
    Link Now you may not like the strategy, but there it is. And it is why we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, and hopefully are getting ready to bomb the nuclear facilities of Iran. RePack writes:
    Where do you suppose Mr. Bush got the insane notion that killing a lot of people is a good way to make our country safe? How does anyone who voted for Bush sleep at night?
    Uh, the Cold War? WWII? The Civil War? BTW - Actually I sleep very well. Bill from Dover writes:
    Why not fight them over here? It would certainly cost less and be much more difficult burying IEDs in your local 24hr supermarket.
    You know Bill, you just can't be serious. I mean really. Honest to goodness. J Swift - Actually why Bush invaded is explained above in my reply to Sailor. As for terrorists in Iraq:
    There have been several recent developments. One month ago, Jordan's King Abdullah explained to the Arabic-language newspaper al Hayat that his government had tried before the Iraq war to extradite Abu Musab al Zarqawi from Iraq. "We had information that he entered Iraq from a neighboring country, where he lived and what he was doing. We informed the Iraqi authorities about all this detailed information we had, but they didn't respond." He added: "Since Zarqawi entered Iraq before the fall of the former regime we have been trying to have him deported back to Jordan for trial, but our efforts were in vain."
    Link BTW - Didn't we just wipe him out?? And then:
    EVEN AS THESE DEMOCRATS DENY any connection between Hussein's Iraq and Al Qaeda, the U.S. military is capturing Al Qaeda operatives in Iraq. Last week the White House announced the capture of Hassan Ghul. Ghul worked for Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the architect of the 9/11 attacks.
    Link And from the 9/11 Commission hearings:
    We also understood that there had been antipathy between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein because Saddam Hussein was not viewed as being religious. We did understand from people, including al-Fadl -- and my recollection is that he would have described this most likely in public at the trial that we had, but I can't tell you that for sure; that was a few years ago -- that at a certain point they decided that they wouldn't work against each other and that we believed a fellow in al Qaeda named Mondu Saleem (ph), Abu Harzai (ph) the Iraqi, tried to reach a, sort of, understanding where they wouldn't work against each other. Sort of, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
    Thanks for asking, Big Tent. Now you know.

    "They will Follow Us Here." Who's They? | 19 comments (19 topical)