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14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Detainees
Posted on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 10:19:36 AM EST
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The Associated Press reports today the U.S. has held 14,000 detainees overseas in secret prisons "beyond the reach of established law."

The bitterest words come from inside the system, the size of several major U.S. penitentiaries.

"It was hard to believe I'd get out," Baghdad shopkeeper Amjad Qassim al-Aliyawi told The Associated Press after his release -- without charge -- last month. "I lived with the Americans for one year and eight months as if I was living in hell."

Captured on battlefields, pulled from beds at midnight, grabbed off streets as suspected insurgents, tens of thousands now have passed through U.S. detention, the vast majority in Iraq. Many say they were caught up in U.S. military sweeps, often interrogated around the clock, then released months or years later without apology, compensation or any word on why they were taken. Seventy to 90 percent of the Iraq detentions in 2003 were "mistakes," U.S. officers once told the international Red Cross.

Human Rights groups have long protested the policy.

Human rights groups count dozens of detainee deaths for which no one has been punished or that were never explained. The secret prisons -- unknown in number and location -- remain available for future detainees. The new manual banning torture doesn't cover CIA interrogators. And thousands of people still languish in a limbo, deprived of one of common law's oldest rights, habeas corpus, the right to know why you are imprisoned.

"If you, God forbid, are an innocent Afghan who gets sold down the river by some warlord rival, you can end up at Bagram and you have absolutely no way of clearing your name," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch in New York. "You can't have a lawyer present evidence, or do anything organized to get yourself out of there."

One group who is doing something about it: The National Religious Campaign Against Torture. As The Nation reports:

In Connecticut, for example, religious activists affiliated with the National Religious Campaign Against Torture have initiated a campaign that seeks to hold all Senate and House candidates in the state accountable for their positions on torture and the abuse of executive power. They have begun meeting with Congressional candidates and injecting the torture issue into campaign events.

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    14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons | 25 comments (25 topical)
    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#1)
    by cpinva on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 11:06:50 AM EST
    wouldn't it just be easier to round up the entire population, put them in prison, and then sort through them one at a time? at least that way everyone would be being abused separately, but equally.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 11:06:50 AM EST
    And of these 14,000 how many are held for no other reason than being sold into prisoner status? Judging from this administration's track-record of imcompetence in this area, I'd guess a significant percentage.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#3)
    by Dadler on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 11:40:34 AM EST
    At least one of these prisoners is an AP photogropher who's been in custody for five months with no charges -- for no other reason, it seems likely, than a personal score settled with a photo-journalist and citizen who captured images in Fallujah and similar places that weren't to the military's liking. We'll make an example of him, try to disuade other people with cameras. That kind of counterproductive thinking and action. Which stems from the pre-existing condition of our counterinsurgency capabilities. We still have no solid counterinsurgency strategy, hell the military didn't even have that kind of training in the books -- why learn from Vietnam, after all? Which is a staggering part of the reason this was doomed from the start. There simply did not EXIST a counterinsurgency strategy and training regimen to even base a ci plan for Iraq around. And our only hope now is to learn and learn fast, then act in a learned manner and act learned fast. Is the military up to that task? Is the civilian leadership? Are the civilians? Eating crow in the short term, but succeeding in the long term is what's inevitable. Unless we fighter harder against it, pushing the ultimate goal that much further away.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 12:02:33 PM EST
    Will anyone ever pay for this? No. Certainly not anyone at a high level. We won't have a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. We'll never ship anyone off to the Hague. The most we can realistically hope for is that these horrors done in our name will end. After that, it will all fade from popular memory. A few of us will continue to be outraged, and we'll continue to be ignored. As a country, we simply can't admit to our mistakes. Of course I have a blog

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 01:02:28 PM EST
    DavidD, you have brought up the most important aspect of this whole issue now. Your pessimism is understandable, and you may well turn out to be right. But if there never is a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and the torturers and murderers are never forced to face their responsibilities, the United States will never be the same again. Never will the United States be able to claim the moral high ground. Never will the United States be able to remember the fallen in Iraq and in Afghanistan (and Iran?) without facing the shame of the cause for which they unwittingly fell. Never will the United States be able to say "the terrorists hate us for our freedoms", without provoking a grim sneer from anyone who knows the truth. Perhaps Americans can live with that. I hope that's not the case.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 01:53:55 PM EST
    Remember, the "terra-ists" hate us because we love freedom.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#8)
    by theologicus on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 02:27:45 PM EST
    Detention Without Trial, Torture Without Accountability Center for Constitutional Rights Offers Rare Glimpse Into Lives of Men at Guantánamo September 14, 2006
    The Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) today released Faces of Guantánamo, a report offering a revealing glimpse of the lives of men currently detained at Guantánamo. While recent news has focused on information about the 14 "high-value" detainees recently transferred from secret CIA prisons abroad to Guantánamo, the realities for more than 450 detainees already imprisoned at the base have been pushed to the background. Faces of Guantánamo highlights the cases of nearly thirty men who have been held in Guantánamo for nearly five years-despite significant evidence that they are innocent of any wrongdoing. Among the men profiled are: • Haji Bismullah, an Afghan who fought against the Taliban and served as a provincial government official during the transitional Afghan government; • Adel Hassan Hamad, a Sudanese relief worker, whose detention was described as "unconscionable" by a military official at his Combatant Status Review Tribunal (CSRT); • Dr. Hafizullah Shaba Khail, an Afghan who was the victim of a false arrest while serving on a local commission of elders attempting to root out government corruption; and • Haji Nusrat, an eighty year old Afghan, arrested and transferred to Guantánamo after he protested his son's arrest. Under two military commission bills currently being considered in the Senate, all of these men would no longer be able to contest their detentions in U.S. court. Both bills contain provisions that would retroactively strip U.S. courts of jurisdiction over the habeas petitions of the more than 450 men currently imprisoned at Guantánamo Bay. In addition, the courts would also be barred from hearing the habeas petitions of any future detainees. A simple determination that someone-even a U.S. citizen taken into custody abroad-is an 'enemy combatant' would be enough to detain them indefinitely. The military commissions created by the legislation will try only those accused of violations of the laws of war; many of the men imprisoned at Guantánamo have been held for nearly five years without ever having been charged with a crime. These men depend on the right of habeas corpus to have their cases heard. By eliminating the power of the federal courts to hear pending habeas cases, the legislation would effectively render the McCain Amendment prohibiting cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment of detainees unenforceable and prevent any accountability for the torture or abuse of detainees. ...


    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 04:40:59 PM EST
    et al - I thought you guys wanted these folks to be considered POWs. Now, you're complaining they are being held.... Hey, catch a clue. That's what happens to POWs.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 05:25:39 PM EST
    DavidD: The most we can realistically hope for is that these horrors done in our name will end. After that, it will all fade from popular memory. A few of us will continue to be outraged, and we'll continue to be ignored. They may fade from popular memory in the US, in the same way that most people somehow manage to forget, or at least bury so deeply they cannot remember, bad or hurtful things they've done in the past. In the US. Somehow I doubt that the rest of the world will... ---edger

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 05:25:39 PM EST
    DavidD: The most we can realistically hope for is that these horrors done in our name will end. After that, it will all fade from popular memory. A few of us will continue to be outraged, and we'll continue to be ignored. They may fade from popular memory in the US, in the same way that most people somehow manage to forget, or at least bury so deeply they cannot remember, bad or hurtful things they've done in the past. In the US. Somehow I doubt that the rest of the world will... ---edger

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 05:25:39 PM EST
    DavidD Pay? Will a majority of americans even aknowledge that anything wrong was done? So many people think it is perfectly ok to forget every law and rule of ethic and code of conduct or moral values when it comes to the war on terror, I'm not even sure that this country will even admit anything wrong has been done.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#12)
    by Che's Lounge on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 05:48:58 PM EST
    Anonymous, For decades, the people of the US have been looking the other way while international crimes are committed in their names.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 05:51:24 PM EST
    Where's John Hinckley when you really need him?

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#14)
    by Sailor on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 06:08:39 PM EST
    Hey, catch a clue. That's what happens to POWs.
    That's not true ... as usual from this commenter. Secret prisons are against the GenCons, the Red Cross must be given access to prisoners and:
    No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.
    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 06:50:53 PM EST
    Sailor, ok, ok. We'll cut'em loose tomorrow AM. Can we have your address to send a few? In the meantime, a picture is worth a 1000 words.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#17)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 07:25:00 PM EST
    I don't think a 70% to 90% failure rate makes for an ...effective system.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#18)
    by Sailor on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 07:45:52 PM EST
    Sailor, ok, ok. We'll cut'em loose tomorrow AM. Can we have your address to send a few?
    ppj, why not admit you were wrong, unless you were just lying ... again.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 01:19:10 AM EST
    Lavocat Where's John Hinckley when you really need him? No doubt the actions of the others - Lee Harvey, James Earl, and Sirhan Sirhan thrilled you as well. *************** For all the moaning about "rights of Terrorists in captivity" we had 2.3 million enemy in captivity in WWII. None had lawyers. Many were treated roughly or executed if they attacked a guard. Unlawful combatants were summarily shot. But we complied with Geneva for those who were eligible. That reputation for respecting the Conventions did not protect our soldiers in subsequent wars, nor will it in the future. In the Gulf War and the Iraq War, regular Iraqi units split - some treated US soldiers by law - others beat or executed captured Americans. Investigators were very curious why. It turned out to have nothing to do with Geneva. The ones who treated our guys well were convinced America would burn their cities and spare no one if their captured troops were brutalized. None did it out of like of America, or from knowing of past US behavior. The ones who did abuse and sometimes kill Americans were those convinced the Americans would lose, or if they won, have to honor Geneva and not take collective revenge on the Iraqi's family or tribes.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 01:19:10 AM EST
    Hey, catch a clue. That's what happens to POWs.
    Yeah, if we're using the Soviet Union, North Korea, or North Vietnam as a model. Tell me again why we're better than they are?
    ok, ok. We'll cut'em loose tomorrow AM. Can we have your address to send a few?
    Sure. You arrange the release, I'll find a place for them to stay. Your boogeymen don't even make me mildly nervous. I don't look for monsters under the bed befor I go to sleep at night. Do you?

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 05:41:29 AM EST
    lighting - Having logic problems again? I just said we would retain them as POWS. You know, keep them in prision. That's exactly what was done during WWII. Can you understand that? Yes? Then you must want them all released. That way they can go back to trying to kill our troops. Like these terrorists. Better? Individually we all are equal in the eyes of God. But as a culture, we are vastly better than SA, Syria, Iran, etc. Now since God isn't going to come down and help us, I think it is necessary for us to defend ourselves. That you fail to understand that doesn't make you a bad person, just terribly naive and incapable of logical thoughts.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 05:46:09 AM EST
    Sailor - Why bless your heart. OK, I was lying. We won't cut'em loose. Doesn't that just frost your toasties?

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#22)
    by Sailor on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 07:27:28 AM EST
    ppj -
    I just said we would retain them as POWS.
    Nope, you just lied again, what you said was:
    Hey, catch a clue. That's what happens to POWs.
    And no, that is not what happens to POWs, as my link proved.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#23)
    by Sailor on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 10:36:20 AM EST
    Then you must want them all released.
    Stupid logic, treating POWs humanely and according to the GenCons in no way implies just letting them go.

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 01:35:09 PM EST
    Sailor - You suppose that they are being tortured. But hey, that's just you. Point is, they are being held. That is what happens to POWs. Unless your side gets in charge. You want two or four of'em? They make excellent meat cutters I understand. Necks are their specality. BTW - I'm just gonna ignore your "you lie" studd. You've done it so long everyone has figured out you're just a BS'er. Ta Ta dear boy!

    Re: 14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 09:58:23 PM EST
    Chris Ford: Yes, I was being snarky. No excuse, I know. It's just so frustrating watching this daily train-wreck-in-slow-motion that is American foreign policy these days. Just when you think it can't possibly get any worse - it invariably does. It's the dance of the dunces: how low can you go? Obviously, pretty damned low.

    14.000 Held in Secret U.S. Prisons | 25 comments (25 topical)