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Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill

The Democrats in the Senate fail us once again. After Thursday's approval of the torture - denial of habeas bill, Friday they voted to approve the House bill to build a 700 mile fence across the border.

House Republicans, fearing a voter backlash, had opposed any approach that smacked of amnesty and chose instead to focus on border security in advance of the elections, passing the fence bill earlier this month. With time running out, the Senate acquiesced despite its bipartisan passage of a broader bill in May.

Congress also passed a separate $34.8 billion homeland security spending bill that contained an estimated $21.3 billion for border security, including $1.2 billion for the fence and associated barriers and surveillance systems.

Politics suck. No one has a spine. Everything is about compromise. If the minority party wants any of their bills to advance to a hearing or a vote, they have to capitulate to the party in power on their issues. I learned this first-hand many times, the last time being on a visit to Congress in 2003 to advocate for the Innocence Protection bill. Congressman Sensenbrenner's aide made it clear that if Democrats didn't cave on a bill he wanted -- the Feeney Amendment which would increase federal sentences -- neither the IP bill, nor any bill the Democrats sought to advance, would ever make it to a vote. They controlled the calendar. Congressman Bill Delahunt and Sen. Patrick Leahy's staff confirmed this.

I wondered then and I wonder now, who has the stomach for this? I certainly don't. I'm trained as an advocate, fight to the finish, if you lose, at least you fought the good fight.

Sometimes it's important to stand on principle. The Senate failed to do this on the military commissions bill, and now, on the border fence bill. The Democrats got zilch in return. There was no advantage to their concession, except to appear to their constituents that they, too, are tough on crime and tough on immigration.

The left is simply not represented in Congress. We are still perceived as a liability. Centrism sucks. Values message or no values message, if being a Democrat means caving in on every issue that matters to me, from the death penalty to innocence issues to wiretapping to more mandatory minimum sentences to deporting those who have lived here for decades simply because they don't have proper papers, then what's the difference between the parties? Newsflash: There is none.

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  • Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#1)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 05:20:56 AM EST
    From the post:
    , then what's the difference between the parties? Newsflash: There is none.
    There are huge differences between the two parties. Probably more and better defined than at anytime in our history. What is similar is the tactics used by both sides, although I suspect a partisan can show me examples of why the other is worse. But the fact is that illegal immigration is a problem. A 10 to 12 million people problem. It is depressing the wages of our citizens by giving a ready source of cheap labor, and destroying our schools by placing large numbers of children in the schools whose parents contribute almost nothing in taxes. What we need now is triage. We can argue how to solve the problem after we have stopped the bleeding.

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#2)
    by roger on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 06:53:34 AM EST
    These days, I only bother going to vote because of the local races. I cant wait to leave this country permanently

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#6)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 09:26:10 AM EST
    Who will build it? Let me guess. PORKPORKPORK. Useless pork. Inneffective pork. Here piggy, piggy, piggy. S*%& me you pigs.

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 09:47:44 AM EST
    Sorry...tree-hugging liberal here, who believes we NEED a border fence...or some kind of electronic surveillance along our borders...ALL of them... If someone who doesn't like us gets a nuke, it's NOT that hard to transport and sneak into t his country, and the results of that are devestating... Besides, don't we already HAVE enough Mexicans in this country? Especially with them not paying taxes, and freely using our roadways and hospitals... I don't begrudge them trying to find a better life, and I think that our country NEEDS them at this point...many of the harsher jobs that our citizens feel themselves to be above doing, are performed (WELL) by these folks...but imagine how much their paying taxes would help the US! Think about 7-20 MILLION people's taxes suddenly being collected... We CAN'T just REMOVE them....I don't think it's either realistic, nor feasible, what other choices are there? Welcome them? Shoot them? Welcome them sounds like the American thing to do! And I agree, the tactics the Dems are using suck almost as bad as the Reps..

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 09:47:44 AM EST
    If Senseless-brenner is the one deciding which bills get to the floor...congrees is more fubar than I thought. Some compromise is necessary to have a society we can all live in...but it's just too one sided right now. The right got their fence, got their torture, and got habeus weakened. What the left get?

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 09:47:44 AM EST
    Get out now Roger! What are you waiting for? Go to Venezuela, that great bastion of human rights.

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 09:47:44 AM EST
    Sad that we sink into a Berlin Wall paradigm. And before I get the "Well, the Berlin wall was built by tyrants to keep people in", remember that keeping people in and keeping them out serves the exactly the same purpose here -- to prevent human beings from seeking freedom and a better life. Let them seek it in their own country? Most do. The overwhelming majority do. But try to think back a few decades, to what it must have been like in Mexico during the cold war, when we felt Mexico was all that kept those Central American commies from domino-theorizing our asses. Imagine living in a country, right next to America, that America helped keep a wretched one-party state for so many years. It was in our interest for SO long to keep Mexico that one-party state, that oppressive state, that anti-democratic state (out of paranoid fear of communism) -- and now we're grumbling because of the aftereffects of our interests being served, and grumbling as if, like the Soviets, we think a wall mentality can erase the ugly realities of history and humanity striving. Clinton let us down with NAFTA bigtime, Bush represents a corporate lobby that reaps tons of money from using illegals (as well as from exploiting labor abroad). When global capitalism realizes social stability MUST be as big a goal as profit (since it's useless without a stable world to be wealthy in), and that by simply being measurably more generous the problem could be almost entirely ameliorated. We're not talking rocket science here. Be giving, generous, especially to the least among us. And not simply Sundays in church (meant more metaphorically than literally). Many good things will follow.

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#8)
    by Dadler on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 09:47:44 AM EST
    Forgot again, last comment by Dadler. Sorry. Happy late B-Day, Jeralyn. Can't wait until the site is up and humming along again.

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 10:36:41 AM EST
    Fred...illegal immigrants pay taxes. If they pay rent, they pay property taxes, If they shop, they pay sales taxes. If they smoke or drink, they pay vice taxes. If they buy gas, they pay gas taxes. If they are employed under a phony ss number, they pay ss taxes. The only taxes they don't pay are income taxes if they work off the books. Considering most off the books illegal immigrants are probably making 20k a year or so...the income tax loss is miniscule. And the odds of some nut bringing a nuke in by land over the border are a lot less than a nut bringing one in by sea in a shipping container...imo. The fence is lame.

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 10:56:38 AM EST
    Good clarifications, kdog.

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#12)
    by Slado on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 12:16:37 PM EST
    Anonymous, There are way more differences between the two walls then you discuss. First off nobody was allowed to leave Eastern Berlin. You are free to enter the US legally. Tourist Visa, Passport, Green Card, Work Visa on and on the fence will not keep out the honest people on the dishonest ones. Go visit the desert and see the bodies of the illegals that are carried back to Mexico for burial because they died in the desert. Why did they die? Becuase Mexico encourages them to cross and America doesn't discourage them. Build the fence and they won't come.

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#13)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 01:17:32 PM EST
    JR, How is letting millions of people in - completely unchecked - a good thing?
    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#14)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 01:19:55 PM EST
    ($^^%*@* !

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#15)
    by jarober on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 05:43:30 PM EST
    "So the problem will persist. JR and his ilk will continue to blame noexistent open-border advoctes, and the rich will get richer. Slicker than snot. Is it fun being played?" Non-existant open border advocates? Do you live under a rock?

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#16)
    by roger on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 06:18:51 PM EST
    Anon, No problem, I'll leave this week. But I'll be back in a few days, just for you

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#17)
    by dutchfox on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 06:26:13 PM EST
    Good post, TL. Spot on. For years, I used to vote Democratic, but no more. Not even for local candidates. They are all tainted. I'm on the left for sure, though. In the upcoming election on November 7th, I'll probably vote for candidates in Vermont's Liberty Union Party.

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#18)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 06:51:47 PM EST
    Raising visa quotas is not advocating open borders.

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#9)
    by jarober on Sat Sep 30, 2006 at 09:13:00 PM EST
    For the open borders, no security, anyone in crowd: let's not even worry about terrorism, or school overcrowding. Just for a minute, consider something a whole lot simpler: infectious disease. Why is it oppression to want everyone that comes in to get checked minimally, at least for things like health? Even Ellis island, back during the late 19th century/early 20th century immigrant wave did basic health checks. How is letting millions of people in - completely unchecked - a good thing?

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#19)
    by Sailor on Sun Oct 01, 2006 at 01:07:53 PM EST
    so for the open borders, no security, anyone in crowd
    Bad strawman, bad bad strawman! No cookies for you! As long as businesses can make larger profits with illegal (i.e. slave) labor than with American workers, repubs will always seek ways to suborn illegal workers ... just like they did in no-bid out-of-state Katrina 'rebuilders.' Repubs are against minimum wage, health care for all Americans, healthcare for veterans that they profess to honor, an affordable college/trade school education for Americans less fortunate than themselves ... but they have no problem paying for an illegal war that is killing those same Americans costing 8 BILLION dollars per month! The Dems aren't helping much, but the Rethugs are responsible ... they own congress, the WH and appointed most of the supreme judiciary.

    Re: Senate Caves In on Border Fence Bill (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Oct 01, 2006 at 05:04:47 PM EST
    kdog - No, if they RENT, they do not pay real estate taxes, the owner to whom they pay rent does, and then they usually have as many people packed into a rental space as legally possible (or more), meaning their slice of the the rent gets smaller and smaller...how many illegals do you think have FALSE SS NUMBERS? I'm willing to bet it numbers in the hundreds, not millions...vice taxes? Big deal, gas taxes? fairly oppressive, but when all they have to do is stand out in front of 7-11 or Home Depot, and they get a ride to work..they don't buy much gas....and income taxes are insignificant? Perhaps you should examine our tax code a bit more closely before you make THAT claim...I'm paying about 10% myself, an dthat's just federal...throw 7-20 million folk's taxes on that, and it is by NO MEANS insignificant... and yes, the likelihood of brining it in via land instead of sea IS miniscule, but our healthcare system is being unfairly burdened, as are those who pay for health insurance, as a result of the numbers of unpaid hospital visits (with as many as 20 million residents, the number of visits is significant), all those charges have to be made up somewhere... I'm not saying these are bad people, but they HAVE been operating outside our legal system for quite some time...they are contributing to our GDP, let's help them integrate, and then let's stanch the flow, and find a better way to assimilate them into our culture from the outset....since right now, they aren't assimilating, we are being forced to do extra work to make their lives easier (translators, multiple language printings of US documents, etc.) I don't want these people gone, most are good folk, hard-working, and pursuing the American dream....but they're doing it on our backs, and we're letting them....