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School Paying Cash to Snitches

2,000 schools nationwide ask students to play informant. Now, there's at least one school that is paying kids in cash for snitching:

For a growing number of students, the easiest way to make a couple of hundred dollars has nothing to do with chores or after-school jobs, and everything to do with informing on classmates.

Tragedies like last month's deadly shooting at a Red Lake, Minn., school have prompted more schools to offer cash and other prizes - including pizza and premium parking spots - to students who report classmates who carry guns, drugs or alcohol, commit vandalism or otherwise break school rules.

Aside from our view that such programs teach the kids a morally bankrupt message, experts say the practice will destroy the students' sense of community.

[Snitch programs] are a knee-jerk reaction to student violence. Some education professionals fear such policies could create a climate of distrust in schools and turn students against each other.

"There are very few things that I can think of that would be more effective at destroying that sense of community," said Bruce Marlowe, an education psychology professor at Roger Williams University in Bristol, R.I.

Of the 2,000 schools that participate Student Crimestoppers programs, one of those that pay is Model High School in Rome, Georgia. Many students look at the program as a joke:

At Model High, some of the 650 students complain that the program wrongly implies their school is dangerous. In a Rome News-Tribune cartoon, the school's official mascot was mockingly changed from the Blue Devils to the "Tattlers."

"Everyone just thinks it's a joke. No one is going to tell on their friends for cash," said senior Katie Burnes, president of the school's National Honor Society chapter. "If someone brings a gun to school or is doing drugs in the bathroom, no one has to pay me to let the teachers know."

As one college professor in educational psychology puts it,

"This idea of surveillance - there's something unsavory there," Farley said. "We're familiar with the history of that in the former Soviet Union and Nazi Germany." He added: "I think it's bad civics."

Update: Injustice Anywhere, a new blog by a Texas public defender, has some thoughts on the program.

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    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#1)
    by Beck on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 10:26:37 AM EST
    I wonder if those premium parking spaces are marked with a sign: This spot reserved for the Narc Of The Month

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 11:04:44 AM EST
    Schools become more and more like prisons everyday. Soon they will be shanking the rats in the halls. Don't parents teach their kids not to be a tattle-tale anymore? I consider that one of the more important life lessons my parents taught me. Unless it's a matter of life or death, mind your own damn business. Sorry, a bag of weed or a bottle of beer isn't a life or death matter. Orwell's Junior Spies come to life....scary and sad.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 12:33:05 PM EST
    Put yourself in the place of the school administrators. YOU are responsible for the safety and welfare of several hundred children. When YOU read about some violence occuring at some other school, wouldn't YOU lose some sleep wondering if tomorrow it's going to happen at YOUR school? How many people are going to blame YOU for not doing everything YOU could have to prevent it? Do you think the parents of a child who got hurt or shot are going to be happy because YOU didn't implement something like this? How many parents will gladly send their children back to YOUR school knowing the YOU decided NOT to take steps that could have prevented the problem. I wouldn't want my daughters school to do something like this but I can understand how reasonable responsible school officials could consider this. Would something like this have prevented Columbine? There is always a tradeoff between freedom and safety and people who have the responsibility to keep YOUR children safe might put more emphasis on safety. They aren't closet secret police, just concerned responsible adults. If the comunity thinks this is going too far then they sould ask the school to retract the policy.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 12:53:57 PM EST
    I don't like it because kids will have an incentive to try to pin something on someone they don't like. Many kids have been raised to mind their business, so they won't be tempted to stoop so low as to snitch for profit. It's the ones who have no scruples that worry me.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 01:17:04 PM EST
    I don't think it's so bad. If anything, I think it gives more incentive for kids to report serious and potentially dangerous things. I don't really care about drugs like MJ, but then some may be doing coke or heroin...who knows, so no drugs. Alcochol...underage drinking on school grounds? You kidding me? Kids go to school to learn. The kids who realise this should not have to put up with those who want to make a school into something like southside Chicago streets. Besides, cash is cash. I'd rat you out if you're dumb enough to get caught.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 01:23:37 PM EST
    tau....I would argue that any child who has info about a kid planning a murder is going to come forward without a cash reward being offered. Read between the lines, this is all about ratting out kids over drug or alcohol experimentation, otherwise known as normal teenage stuff. We will end up with schools where kids fear coming forward about a real drug or alcohol problem to a classmate, because the classmate may go running to the principal for a $100 cash prize. Not to mention all the false accusations that will surely follow for a quick payday. As TL aptly put it, morally bankrupt.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 01:33:25 PM EST
    Exactly Ern...kids go to school to learn, not to catch their classmates breaking a rule in order to get paid.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 01:35:46 PM EST
    Unbelievable. When I was a teen in high school, there was nothing lower than a narc. One kid who got busted and gave up some other kids to the pigs (yes, that's what we called them back then) actually had to leave town because he was getting beat up constantly. Big brother has eviscerated the law of the playground.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 01:41:13 PM EST
    I'm not saying drugs or alcohol belong in school, obviously not. I'm saying paying student snitches is not the way to tackle the problem.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 01:42:58 PM EST
    You all have me LOL. Visit a Chicago public school, and believe me when I tell you that most have gotten WORSE than they were 20 years ago. Manily because kids have more things do, get away with, and be afraid of...with much less accountability. Not saying that every minor offense needs to be ratted out, but some kids think showing off a gun is cool. Or coming to school blowed is cool. Pleeze...do your experimentation at home.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 01:57:59 PM EST
    Ern, If I believed for a second that paid student snitches would improve conditions at a school like you mentioned, I'd be open to debate the issue. But I just can't buy it. This is drug war BS, plain and simple.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#12)
    by Johnny on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 02:18:43 PM EST
    Lets not forget that money and the promise of money in exchange for some simple information has never, and I repeat never, caused anyone to, well, lie...

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 03:27:33 PM EST
    I don't know ern, my first day at hs here in chicago a kid got stabbed in music class and that was more than 20 years ago. Another kid fired a gun in the locker room. Dope dealing was pervasive. And we had a chicago cop full time in our school. I have kids in cps and they are no worse or better then when I attended. I can't wait until the rival drug dealers start snitching on each other to garner greater market share in the schools. This reeks of desperation.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 03:30:26 PM EST
    "Premium parking spots"? Any rat who takes that as their reward is a fool twice over. Because their car is so going to get keyed.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#15)
    by cp on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 03:45:54 PM EST
    tautala, would these be the same administrators responsible for calling the police on a 5 year-old, who was then handcuffed by said police, and carted off to the hoosegow, like the dangerous criminal she most obviously is? those the administrators you're referring to? i am curious, do you get the reward before or after you're shot? this is important! bear in mind, the columbine and red cloud killings were committed by people who walked into the schools with guns blazing, they didn't stop to check their weapons at the door. i have serious doubts as to the efficacy of a snitch in those instances. barry freed, if their car only gets keyed, they should consider themselves fortunate. in my high school, we had a high % of military dependents, who had ready access to manuals, gratis of the army and marine corps libraries, on how to make and use improvised explosives. they also had ready access to the common household items needed to make them. car go boom!

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 07:40:18 PM EST
    Third world usa.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Apr 26, 2005 at 07:47:21 PM EST
    This all makes perfect sense now. Any criminal defense lawyer in a large city- such as in Chicago, likely has a large client base of drug offenders. How many times have you seen a police report begin with the words..." RO received information from a confidential informant that..." Schools are actually training children how to grow up to be snitches so they will willingly give up all their friends and their mother the first time they get busted with some sort of serious offense (or any offense really if it results in dropped charges and no fines). NARC's, that is, people who turn trick just for the sake of helping themselves because THEY themselves got caught doing something (in essence saying, because im a selfish dick i wont pay a fine or go to jail but you can) are the lowest form of human being on the face of the planet. These snitch-littles are the future scum of the earth. Trusting kids not to abuse this system is like expecting a republican to explain his pro-life position as he simultaneously gives support for the death penatly. I can't wait for the headline that reads "Students NARC eachother to principal, get rewards, later arrested with alcohol and drugs." HAHAHA. This plan is scary stupid on so many different levels. ~peace~

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 12:42:27 AM EST
    Ah, I get it. So continue ignoring the problems in the hopes that they go away. Makes sense! It almost seems as if most of you are arguing FOR guns and drugs in schools, like it's no big deal. Okay, so maybe the snitch program sucks, but can you offer a better solution? People obviously aren't willing to police their own kids, but are more than willing to point the finger at others when something goes wrong. And Jl, thanks for partially illustrating my point.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 06:25:20 AM EST
    Ern..I appreciate the honesty in admitting this idea sucks. Since it's not to long since I was a hard partying high-schooler myself, one thing that kept me from getting high was intramural sports programs. On the days when they opened up the gym after school for basketball, or set-up flag football games, I wasn't getting high. Something as simple as that would be infinitely more effective than a snitch program, though it may not lead to arrests, expulsions, or suspensions.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#20)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 06:33:42 AM EST
    Ern, your suggestion to visit a CPS provides no comparative data from 20-30 years ago, yet you claim that the problem requires a snitching program. Violence in my HS 25 years ago was consistent and occasionally brutal. There was a high school about 2 miles away from us with similar demographics which had nearly 15% of the violence we had. The difference was that they had a principal who was highly involved in teacher activities and ran the school with high demands from his teachers. The faculty in turn, never felt their complaints of unruly students fell on deaf ears. Parents were required to visit the school for student truancy, failing grades, poor attitudes et al. We had none of that. Based on that scenario one would have to say that it is the principals fault in the schools not the disposition of children running out of control. Private schools in poor neighborhoods do not have the same problems as their public school counterparts, why is that? Do all the private schools have advanced snitching programs????

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ambiorix on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 07:04:34 AM EST
    Larry the Litigator:
    Unbelievable. When I was a teen in high school, there was nothing lower than a narc. One kid who got busted and gave up some other kids to the pigs (yes, that's what we called them back then) actually had to leave town because he was getting beat up constantly.
    It is this kind of "education" that gives the US a prison population of over 2.300.000 inmates

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 07:24:45 AM EST
    Part of Bush's new education plan "No spy left behind".

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 07:52:41 AM EST
    Greece in the late 60 early 70 when the Col. led Greecc every 5th person was a snitch. It could happen here.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#24)
    by Patrick on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 09:01:15 AM EST
    JL, Not sure I believe that story, can you provide links which prove your assertions?

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#25)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 10:37:01 AM EST
    Patrick, send me your email and I will gladly send you the school name and the dates of occurence. For a bonus, I will throw in why the kid stabbed the other kid in music class.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 10:50:36 AM EST
    Patrick, Just out of curiosity, what do you believe? Aren't you the guy (sorry if mistaken) who writes DeLay/Rice '08 at the bottom of your posts? If so, could you provide links please?

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#27)
    by Patrick on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 12:23:32 PM EST
    Mfox, I believe quite a bit. I believe most cops are good hardworking people, subject to the same fallabilities as everyone else. Relative to this particular thread, I believe if someone wants to be a mercenary informant, that should be allowed. I don't believe in the recreational use of illegal drugs or the illegal use of legal ones. I believe someone has a duty to obey the law and should work within the law to change those laws which they disagree with. I believe the system works when we let it. I believe the extremes of both ends of the political spectrum are out of their minds. The extreme left is most represented here. I believe you are wrong about me being the one with the foot note about Delay/Rice, although I think Condoleeza Rice is an excellent role model for. I don't blame President Bush for every ill of society althought I'd like to see him get stronger on illegal immigration. I believe the war in Iraq was a necessary evil, and has made the world a better place. There isn't enough bandwidth to tell you all I believe. If you must, my comment to JL, (Whom I believe is a different person than you) is related to another thread where he called my past experience into question in a similar manner. Thanks for your concern

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#28)
    by Patrick on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 12:27:31 PM EST
    Aside from our view that such programs teach the kids a morally bankrupt message, experts say the practice will destroy the students' sense of community.
    I believe this attitude is exactly the reason for the decline of our society. It is everyone's business what you are doing if what you are doing is breaking the law.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#29)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 12:27:51 PM EST
    P, as noted, send your email over. Oh yeah, we had the same conversation previously, too many nutjobs online to expose ourselves. Besides, I have watched one too many episodes of The Shield and for some reason I tell my wife every time the show comes on, "Honey, Patrick is about to come on".

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 12:39:28 PM EST
    It is everyone's business what you are doing if what you are doing is breaking the law.
    I couldn't diagree more. What I do is no ones business unless it harms somebody else.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#31)
    by Patrick on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 12:52:02 PM EST
    Kdog, What you do is nobody's business if what you are doing is legal. I will fight to defend that right. But once what you are doing becomes illegal, you loose my support. I'm sure that's no big deal to you, but that's just what I believe. JL, Somehow I don't doubt that you get your views of law enforcement from TV shows. I saw one episode of that show and knew it was a joke. Unfortuantely people really do view that as the reality.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 01:12:13 PM EST
    Fair enough Pat...that's our fundamental difference. I like the term you coined.."mercenary informant"..a very apt description of what school snitch incentive programs will create.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#33)
    by Patrick on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 01:16:12 PM EST
    Informants are motivated by any number of means. Money is but one, and I didn't coin the phrase we've used it out here for many years to describe a particular group of informants. It helps to know what motivates someone when you review their information. Helps to put it in perspective.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 01:19:35 PM EST
    I think some people took my post the wrong way. I don't agree with the policy but as one poster said, it's an act of desperation. Ask yourself why the school thought they sould try this? The problem isn't kids telling on each other, it the problem is why does the school feel the need for this policy. Those high moraled kids who won't tell on each other are dealing drugs in school. Their parents aren't doing a good job of teaching their kids not to do drugs or bring knives to school. But I know they will want the head of any school administrator as soon as one of their (non-snitching) kids gets hurt. None of us posting here or reading these comments will be held responsible for any child getting hurt at any school. Are all of you who are opposed to this policy willing to go to the parents of some child who got hurt at tell them that having this program is actually worse than what happened to their child? For us it's an intelectual exercise. For school officials it's a real possibility.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 01:21:04 PM EST
    Just another question. Would you snitch on a thief if you saw one breaking into your neighbors house? I guess neighborhood watch programs are really neighborhood snitch programs.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#36)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 01:40:07 PM EST
    No Patrick, I get my views on LE from my time as a Military Police Officer where I saw, homophobia, sexism, racism and assault committed on a regular basis. As I have stated previously, my good friend is the head of a SWAT team in a large city, another good friend was a retired FBI Section Head, both great patriots and LE officials. Neither would stand for any blatant civil rights violations and speak highly of their colleagues. Both freely admit to the brotherhood of the badge. Both categorically deny any systemic racism, sexism, or homophobia in either the federal or local police forces. I believe them. When I read your drivel and anger, I question their beliefs. When I watch The Shield, I think of you. I just cannot help myself.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 01:51:28 PM EST
    tau..I can only speak for myself...If I saw a break-in occuring at the neighbors, I'd grab my Louisville Slugger and try to stop it. I've never called a cop in my life, but I understand this is not mainstream thinking. As I said earlier on the thread, if a kid has info about an assault or a gun, most will come forward without the monetary reward or "prizes". The monetary reward will just bring out the dregs ratting out their classmate over a dime bag or smoking in the boys room. It will not reduce school violence in my opinion, but increase it. Flip the script...What will school officials tell a parent who's kid got his arse kicked for ratting out a classmate over a dime bag for a $25 reward? I myself would be pissed that the school official paid my child to wear a bullseye on his/her back.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 02:01:00 PM EST
    Jl, my suggestion was to visit a CPS...and be appalled that many are still crappy. Not every school has Joe Clark for a principal. And I'm not even going to speculate about private schools. The first problem, as you alluded to, is apathy on the parts of parents and teachers. The second problem is this attitude that drugs, booze, and guns aren't hurting anyone. I already admitted that this is probably not the best of programs to have, but I also asked for an alternative. Ya know, something besides the metal detectors, locker tossings, and occasional drug dog patrols. I mean...you talk about a shooting, a stabbing, and "consistent and occasionally brutal" violence...yet this is better than snitching? Tautala, I couldn't agree more.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 02:03:05 PM EST
    I gave you an alternative Ern (see above), it's not sexy like "mercenary informants", but I feel it's more effective at making schools safer, which is supposed to be the goal. Making schools more like prison isn't making them safer.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#40)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 03:06:43 PM EST
    Ern, when the administrations start to change and take more ownership for how they run their schools, perhaps I might feel as if more drastic measures are necessary. That said, please answer for me why the private schools in economically challenged neighborhoods are not having the same problems that the public schools (only blocks away from each other) are having. I am with Kdog, when there was an assault at school the cops always found a willing witness. I cannot remember too many kids running to the teachers to complain that Joey was puffin a blunt in the school yard.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#41)
    by Patrick on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 03:17:57 PM EST
    JL, I, too was in the military police, and there is no comparison. You claim to have two "friends" who tell you exactly the same things I have in many past posts (With the exception of the brotherhood part, I don't know how you personally define that) and believe them, but somehow when I say those very things they are less valid. I must therefore doubt your assertions of two law enforcement friends. I cannot, nor do I want to, change your beliefs about me. Think of me any way you want to, I do not care. For every one who believes like you do, there are many more who are much more realistic. We will most likely never cross paths in the real world, and if by some chance we do, you have nothing to worry about if you are not breaking the law.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#42)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 03:18:38 PM EST
    Sorry ern, was just trying to emulate our president with the "ownership" society mentality. Teachers and administrators need to own the running of their schools.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#43)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 03:23:15 PM EST
    Patrick, show me where I have accused cops of all being dirty or bad. I don't like you, your anger or your politics. Doesn't make me a cop hater any more than it makes you a dork. But it works for me.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#44)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 03:27:05 PM EST
    "you have nothing to worry about" Patrick, what makes you think that you invoke fear in people? I am serious, I bet they interviewed you for the Shield.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#45)
    by Patrick on Wed Apr 27, 2005 at 03:48:39 PM EST
    JL, Now you've hurt my feelings... You don't like me? I hardly think proving you wrong is worth wading through the hundreds of posts you've posted here. Suffice it to say you have proven what you are time and time again. One only needs to read this thread to get the flavor of your beliefs. P.S. I certainly wasn't trying to evoke fear, in fact a normal person wouldn't get that from what I wrote. perhaps some counseling would help you with your insecurity.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#46)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 06:03:20 AM EST
    P, "nothing to worry about" is a veiled threat, typical of your postings filled with anger and repression. Seriously, you should not have a badge. Liking LE and assuming they are always correct are two very different things. As far as my "friends" only the SWAT team leader is left, Joe, the retired FBI agent passed away some months ago. So I only get to discuss real world situations with my other buddy. Typical line of reasoning comes from you, "not in support of war = hates the troops", not in support of a police officer that shoves a nightstick up someones arse, must be a cop hater. Let me go on record, I don't hate cops. I hate dirty ones. I hate cops that break the law. I expect LE to be more law abiding than regular citizens. I expect LE to conduct themselves in a manner that is consistent with civil rights for all. And most of all, I expect them to leave their anger at home and not bring it on the job.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#48)
    by Patrick on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 08:19:19 AM EST
    JL, Your self-edited posts from other threads do not disprove my point. Your comments on threads like this reveal the most about you, and as you can clearly read this thread has nothing to do with police misconduct. Really, we've gotten of topic, but I feel that your level of fixation with me is unhealty. You should take a break, relax and get help. I mean, come on, you talk about me with your wife in front of the TV? I can't recall ever mentioning you outside of this forum. "You have nothing to worry about" is not a threat, except perhaps in your sad world of insecurity. I hope you get the help you need.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#49)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 08:33:33 AM EST
    P: They are not "self-edited" they are full quotes. You have a real problem with honesty and clarity. Again, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE A BADGE. You have posted on the topic hundreds of times, me less than 15. Your inability to be honest and consistent pattern of making false accusations tell me that you are a very poor police officer. If you cannot be honest in a darned blog, what are you doing outside of it? As far as the "misconduct" and my comments it goes to your assertion that my thoughts on LE are "fear based" or hatred. This post has nothing to do with misconduct, but the argument has to do with honesty and integrity and whether or not I have voiced undisputed bias against LE. Of the 100 or so posts regarding police, I have commented rather infrequently and usually neutrally. But when it comes to Patrick, again, I don't like dirty cops and everything about your posts reek of Dirty Cop.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#50)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 08:37:40 AM EST
    As an aside, my wife a frequent reader of TL and a very infrequent poster, really thinks that Patrick is not only angry but dangerous. Sure, it might seem hard to discern that merely from reading your posts, but heck go back and read them yourself, perhaps provide them to a therapist...

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#51)
    by Patrick on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 08:55:46 AM EST
    JL, Yes they are your full posts, I never meant to infer they weren't. I was merely pointing out they were the ones you chose and out of context, therefore self-edited is an applicable description. And like I said, they don't disprove my point. I don't believe I've ever accused you of hating all LE. That you accuse me of doing so seems to indicate that you have lost touch or are practicing intellectual dishonesty yourself. Really, you need to take a break, perhaps stop reading blogs for a while and restore a healthy perspective. I don't think I will engage you anymore, you obviously have some deep seated issue with me, whether justified in your mind or not. I'll not feed into it anymore. I hope your wife gives you all the love and support you need.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#52)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 09:21:10 AM EST
    P, edit: to assemble (as a moving picture or tape recording) by cutting and rearranging c : to alter, adapt, or refine especially to bring about conformity to a standard or to suit a particular purpose. Learn the english language. See a counselor. Passive aggressive behavior from a narcissist is very dangerous, especially if they have a badge. I posted only the quotes that were contentious, none of those in support of LE, which I was supportive of the Milwaukee police incident last year. Why would I allow your anger and dishonesty make me take a break from this blog? You don't like to be confronted, you are used to using your badge to bully conversations which of course is useless on a blog and with suspects who recognize your insecurities. You make an accusation regarding my previous posts, I provide them and you back pedal. You are quite simply put, a coward. I don't see this as a waste of time, I see it as fun. You may be afforded the opportunity to lie and cheat in your personal life, but being that there is a running log of all posts on this site and it is in written word format, you are not afforded the same opportunity here. Now back to snitching.....

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#53)
    by Patrick on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 09:59:37 AM EST
    OK, last time for you, Your definition of edit fits the circumstances exactly. You edited your posts out of a thread. They are out of context. The ones you chose to post here are clearly to "suit a particular purpose". Therefore it is still correct. You even admit to picking posts. But don't take my word for it, ask someone eles. I can use smaller words if you think it would help you better understand.
    Why would I allow your anger and dishonesty make me take a break from this blog?
    You absolutely shouldn't. You should look at your own, but that's just a suggestion. Obviously, I can't make you do anything.
    You make an accusation regarding my previous posts, I provide them and you back pedal. You are quite simply put, a coward.
    I don't see it that way, but however you have to sell it to yourself is fine with me. You made the leap that I was accusing you of calling all cops bad (See quote)
    Patrick, show me where I have accused cops of all being dirty or bad.
    Which I never did, and when I say that, somehow I've backed off and am a coward. Really, now, is that intellectually honest? If this is a battle of wits, you are not winning. If spewing venom and hatred is "Fun" for you, I dare say you have a twisted sense of the word. You accuse me of lying and cheating, yet offer no substantive proof other than, "Your word." Like I said, and has been my point all along. People can get a flavor for your beliefs based off of what you write, it's clear enough for the rest of us, I just hope you see it someday. The proverbial, look in the mirror.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#54)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 10:19:19 AM EST
    P: "you don't have to worry" Who said anything about being worried? There was no context for that statement other than your distorted view that I would be "worried". Typical from you. Passive aggressive and feeling that your badge makes you "to be feared". You see P, you did not say "fear me I am a police officer" outright, yet in your veiled infantile way, you said "you have nothing to fear unless you are breaking the law". What was the root of that statement? You have made several veiled and some outright references as to my opinions of LE in whole, yet are unable to produce any of my opinions that are consistent with that logic. As far as what I "picked" I selected all that I could find on the misconduct post, could not find the Milwaukee one but did not search for it because it added nothing to the argument. I stand by the comment, you are a raging coward and a liar. Not a distorter, not a twister, not a spinner, but an angry pathetic liar. I have seen some criticism of my posts on this website, from you, PPJ and Doc Ace and Rich Aubrey. Rich is usually fair in his criticism as is PPJ. PPJ says it or Rich says it, it usually means something to me. Virtually everything that comes out of your fingers is pure vitriolic suppressed anger. I would not be so quick to judge one in a battle of wits, your words consistently display a lack of intellect.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#55)
    by Patrick on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 10:25:51 AM EST
    Like I said, and has been my point all along. People can get a flavor for your beliefs based off of what you write, it's clear enough for the rest of us, I just hope you see it someday. The proverbial, look in the mirror.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#56)
    by Patrick on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 10:28:57 AM EST
    And not out of charachter for you to stand by baseless unproven accusations about someone ele. It's typical of an insecure egomaniac, such as yourself.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#57)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 10:48:25 AM EST
    Posted by: Patrick on February 6, 2004 08:30 AM That's what I said.... It sounds like you'd like to indict the whole for the damage done by a small percentage of it's parts. I wonder how many of your former co-workers are still working as LEO's, and for which agencies they were hired. Sound familiar Pat?

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#58)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 10:49:01 AM EST
    I will find the others.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#59)
    by Patrick on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 10:52:29 AM EST
    Can't say as it does. It's out of context. Dare I say edited. Your fixation is showing itself. If it helps, I'll humor you more.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#60)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 10:59:29 AM EST
    My comments don't scoff at accountability, justice or anything else, nor do they support unchecked corruption, I merely try to point out that some people will never be happy with law enforcement and this is a perfect example. Your statements about what I do and who I am clearly show your propensity for contempt based on very little information. Sound familiar Pat?

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#61)
    by Patrick on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 11:02:02 AM EST
    Sounds truthful, but again out of context... Keep trying, your making a fool out of yourself and proving my points.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#62)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 11:03:20 AM EST
    Nah, not fixated P, just trying to make the point. You spout off, use veiled threats, and bawk bawk bawk. But really, there is no way for me to know whether or not you are a good or a bad cop, so I do take that back. I assume you are a shi*tty cop but you could just be another dork online...

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#63)
    by Patrick on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 11:04:41 AM EST
    Your also wasting bandwidth, but then so am I by responding to you. So I'll check back now and again, if you have a valid point, I'll try to address it. Otherwise, feel free to attack me as much as you need to to feel good about yourself.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#64)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 11:07:32 AM EST
    you let me know when you are ready to provide some links in your defense. It is a lot of work reading this old stuff and posting your ignorance. What is funny though, is that as I looked back you and I had some civil discussions that I had completely forgotten about. After reading those I wonder why we cycle back to antagonizing each other. I don't know, I guess I just don't like you and on some days you piss me off more than others.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#65)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 11:11:12 AM EST
    You are right P, I am piling on and it is a pathetic use of bandwidth.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#66)
    by Patrick on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 01:07:24 PM EST
    You're a legend in your own mind.

    Re: School Paying Cash to Snitches (none / 0) (#67)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 01:50:27 PM EST
    Nice close.