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After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives

25 years ago, on December 8, 1980, John Lennon was shot and killed outside his apartment building on the upper West Side of New York. Newsweek takes a long look back, particularly at the effect of his death on Yoko and his former wife Cynthia, and their respective sons with John, Sean and Julian. It's a sad article. This comment by Yoko struck me most:

"You know, this is like a Shakespearean drama almost," says Ono. "Each person has something to be totally miserable about because of the way they were put into this play.

John Lennon's death has a special meaning for me, one I was able, through fortuitious circumstances, to turn into something positive. I wrote about it here on the anniversary of his death in 2003.

To Yoko, Sean, Julian and Cynthia: There are millions of people in this world whose lives were enriched by John Lennon, his persona and his music. He told his truth and it was the truth of an entire generation. His death was a tragedy, but his life was an inspiration. His legacy is timeless. I hope someday soon you can focus on his life instead of his death and that the memories of your time together bring you great joy.

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    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#1)
    by alapip on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:18 PM EST
    I saw most of the, (endless), two hour special on John's hapless and pathetic killer the other night. What a waste of time that was for the most part, except when actually focusing on Lennon. I have many of John's and the Beatles recordings, but could not afford any of the prints of his artistic drawings in a special showing in Salt Lake City a decade or so ago. He was much more than a musician. His drawings are humorous and insightful. Plus, he was a futurist with a heart that encompassed all who were touched by his artistry, even the idiot that did him in.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:18 PM EST
    A son couldn't have a better model of how to be a (hu)man... "All we are saying...is give peace a chance." --John Lennon "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." --Mahatma Ghandi Happy upcoming birthday to Nic.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#3)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:18 PM EST
    i remember the nite lennon was murdered. i was watching tv and they broke in with a special report. i was stunned. i'd grown up with the beatles and lennon, et al, the concept of them being mortal hadn't quite entered my mind up until that point. foolish yes, but i was still young. as i've gotten older, i've developed a greater appreciation for mr. lennon's total body of work. however, i've also recognized his feet of clay. this is not a negative, far from it. it makes him that much more human, and his accomplishments that much more impressive.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:18 PM EST
    I grew up with the Beatles and was always a huge fan. Evey Beatles fan knows that Lennon was the driving force behind them.... I too was watching that Monday Night football game when I heard Howard Cosell's announcement. I was devistated... how could this happen? A truly sad day..... Years later I had the opportunity to go to NY several times on business and made it a point to visit the Dakota and also Strawberry fields (right across the street in Central Park)... I highly recommend it to any fans.. It's our Mecca...!

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#5)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:20 PM EST
    Yeah I miss George too. And to Dick Cheney: "Instant Karma's gonna get YOU!" BB, Do you agree with Lennon's politics or is it love of his music only?

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#6)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:20 PM EST
    BB: My father lives in Cleveland. A few years ago my wife and I went up there to visit him and he took us to the Rock Hall of Fame. You should really go if you ever get a chance. They have stuff like John Lennon's report card from 1st grade (they also have Jim Morrison's cub scout uniform!). Their special exhibit at the time we went was a room dedicated to Lennon. You could see the handwritten, thrice scribbled over versions of "Imagine," "Strawberry Fields," "Fool on the Hill." It was a surreal experience. I had to leave the room before too long. Sentimentalism overcame me. Lennon was a great soul.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#7)
    by Dadler on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:20 PM EST
    Che, Excellent query to BB. It's lovely when the right and left can come together because of a great artist. It's even lovelier when the art begins a discussion larger than the music or the fame or the individual fan.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:20 PM EST
    Che'.... Do you agree with Lennon's politics or is it love of his music only? I agreed with most of Lennon's politics... If you remember, I have stated I was liberal up until 10 or 15 years ago... Nothing wrong with "giving peace a chance"... however when that doesn't work... I'm all for kickin a little ass. I also "imagine" what the world would be like with no religion. Much better I dare say, seeing how about 99% of the worlds problems stem from religion. glanton... Rock Hall of Fame. You should really go if you ever get a chance. I have been...many times. Cleveland is on my regular (sales) stop.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#9)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:20 PM EST
    Glanton - Hmm. This is twice we have agreed today. I must check my water. Obviously it has been doctored.. I think my early life was too harsh to have any "idols." But I loved R&R, and cut my teeth on Chuck Berry, Little Richard, etc..... Speedo was my favorite.By the time the Beatles hit I was bound up in real things happening in real places.. I never enjoyed their music until I was old enough to separate their politics from their music.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#10)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:20 PM EST
    Jim, Prepare for a shock. I would go further than you as far as Lennon's politics. While I agree with much of his politics, I have always felt that the Beatles' very best songs, as is the case with most art, was charged with ambiguity. I don't like being preached to by anybody, whether its a artist I love or a Talking Head that I hate. Nahaniel Hawthorne struck a greater blow for tolerance, in his own way, with the decidedly unpreachy The Scarlet Letter, then did the whole gaggle of "reformers" that were his contemporaries. That's my view anyway. My favorite Beatles song of all is probably "Strawberry Fields," though it changes daily. This song doesn't tell you how to vote or who to agree with, though it says a hell of a lot about growingup, finding yourself, dealing with finality, etc.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#11)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:20 PM EST
    BB: Did you happen to make it there when this past summer when they were featuring Tommy? Man, that was awesome! They also had, hanging over the main rotunda, the actual Division Bell heads from the Pink Floyd album cover. For me it was akin to being in the presence of a Matisse.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:20 PM EST
    I'll never stop missing John.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:20 PM EST
    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#14)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    Thanks BB. Never been to the R&R HOF but you guys are convincing. Think of all the music we've lost from him since 12/08/80. Waves of sadness. OTOH "There are no problems, only solutions" That's one of my favorite thoughts for difficult times.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    About five years ago, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame had a large exhibit of the stuff Yoko donated, the exhibit was called "Imagine." I recall being struck by the fact that he was killed when he was only 40. All around the exhibit were signs that said "Imagine" followed by a quote from one famous person or another. On the way out, over the door, was a sign that said "Imagine ... a world without John Lennon." I had two thoughts in quick succession: I'd rather not. Then, sh*t, I am living in that world.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    Glanton... Did you happen to make it there when this past summer when they were featuring Tommy? No..unfortunately. It has been a few years and all this talk leads me to believe I need to get back there soon! Like I said..it's our Mecca..we all need to go... often. My favorite Beatles song of all is probably "Strawberry Fields," though it changes daily. I agree that my fave also changes depending on my mood..... although "In my life" is always right up there. I think one of the most profound Lennon lyrics was ... "life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"...that about sez it all! Che' Think of all the music we've lost from him since 12/08/80. Waves of sadness.. Yes indeed!

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    I'll give you everthing I've got for a little peace of mind.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#18)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    What do you think of when you hear, "Imagine there's no heaven. It's easy if you try. No hell below us. Above us only sky."?

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#19)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    What do you think of: What do you think of... My last judgement will be of myself, and made by myself.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#20)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    Inspired by this thread, when I got home from work yesterrday I spun nothing but Beatles CD's. The song that hit me the hardest was "Hey Jude." At the risk of sounding melodramatic (who, me?), the end of that song, for me, goes on record as one of the most truly transcendent moments in Rock and Roll history. Now I understand why, at the Live 8 Paul M. brought out the whole London contingent to come together and close out the concert with a rhapsodic version of "Hey Jude."

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    I think that heaven and hell are fictional places created by men to control the thoughts and behavior of other men.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#22)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    created by men to control the thoughts and behavior of other men. created by [very insecure] men [afraid of free and uncontrolled] thoughts and behavior of other men.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#23)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    kdog, I don't quite agree with you. It seems to me like religions have consistently arisen within human consciousness largely as a result of our funadamental need to deal with aging, death, and the like. True, institutionalized religions have from the beginning served as a major tool for asserting the will to power--but that alone doesn't explain the fundamental need. When Lennon asks us to Imagine "there's no Heaven," he's asking a lot, psychologically. And I think he knows that he is--thus the power of the song. It aint like imagining getting laid or scoring a bag of kind, my friend. Happy Turkey Day!

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#24)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    Ok...I get the feeling that what he's trying to do is get us to imagine a place where there would be no need for a heaven or hell. A place where all are equal and will continue to be equal. I think he's using heaven and hell as metaphoric measurements of the equality of man on all spiritual and emotional levels.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#26)
    by glanton on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    kdog, Points well taken. You know, it occurs to me that you would greatly enjoy this book I'm working with right now, called _Regeneration Through Violence_ (1973), by Richard Slotkin. It is many things, but for me, it is first and foremost a book about the American Soul. Especially early in the book Slotkin does a wonderful job of chronicling the relationships/perceptions/facts/literary conceits in the late seventeenth/early eighteenth centuries that shaped things between and within early Puritan communities on the one hand, and such Indian tribes as the Delawares on the other. His book really resonates with the point you're making when you differentiate between "religion" and "spirituality," and it also may help you better clarify how you yourself think and feel about these things. It has done wonders for me in this regard. Peace and spliffs for all.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:22 PM EST
    kdog..... religion, .....arose when those in power realized they could use that inherent spirituality to maintain power and control. The workers, the peasants, etc. were promised a paradise after death .... I agree 100%.... An all powerful, all knowing, all seeing God presented a very real threat to the 'common' (uneducated) man. One that he couldn't take the chance on offending. Still powerful today in fact. Hence...the famous 72 virgins we hear so much about!

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#28)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:22 PM EST
    The reason that religion is so appealing is that it offers the only answer to the question "How are we here?" -- and not the physical how are we here and not the meaning of life, but how do we see things and understand things and feel things and remember things and learn things and have a conscience about things around us. Religion answers the question of where we got our souls. Science does not. That's the appeal and that's why there are still those of us educated beings that have faith. And by the way, I can remember thinking with bullets whizzing by my ears that they'll never take my faith. That's worth a lot, and that's why I wouldnt want to imagine a place with no religion. So...back to the Imagine lyrics, I like to think that by "...and no religion, too..." he means not necessarily that there is no religion of any kind, but that it didnt matter to one what another's religion was. All of the problems stemming from religion are because of one thinking theirs is better than another. If that were not the case, then existance of different faiths would not be an issue and he probably would not have included the lyrics.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:23 PM EST
    Ain't that the truth BB. The world could use some more John Lennon disciples right now for damn sure. I can repect that p..after having these discussions with people of faith before, I've found I don't seek answers to those questions. The soul, or the lifeforce, exists; planet earth is loaded with it, and that's enough for me. Why do we need heaven and hell when we've got life? "living for today...living life in peace...sharing all the world"

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#30)
    by Johnny on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:23 PM EST
    I view the song as either a melodic comunist manifesto, or a moving tribute to animism (or native americanism or dirt worship or paganism) Someone mentioned religion being universal. True. However, there are some fundamental differences in religions. The biggest being the presence of prophets in some, but not in others. Salvationist religions (christianity, judaism, islam)rely on a man or a woman or a spirit or a ghost to tell them how to live. Animist religions do not have prophets. The prophets that did appear, appeared only after disastrous contact with salvationists. "sharing all the world" describes the basic tenet of animism that all things are holy and have a place. "no possessions" is a basic difference between so-called civilized v. savage peoples. Civilized people generally adhere to salvation based religions while savages adhere to the animist types. "no heaven, no hell" is in respect to the lack of absolute black and white such as found in salvationism. Animists may or may not believe in afterlife, generally they do, but it does not bear resemblance to the salvationist versions. Nowhere does Lennon say there is no afterlife. "no religion too" is important. It expresses his frustration at the lack of tolerance for people of alternative supernatural beliefs from salvationists. "imagine all the people living life in peace" "You may say I'm a dreamer" Yes, he was. Up against the prevailing doctrine that humans are flawed from birth, and that explains our behaviour, it's no wonder he titled the song "Imagine". That is my view, as an animist (or dirt worshiper or pagan or whatever label fits, it does not matter to me). The communist innuendos have been discussed to death.

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#31)
    by peacrevol on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:23 PM EST
    The soul, or the lifeforce, exists; planet earth is loaded with it, and that's enough for me. Why do we need heaven and hell when we've got life?
    I can respect that. Nice johnny...very though provoking. I wonder if when that song was first written he had any idea that it would still be discussed years later between people of all different backgrounds and beliefs. The fact that it is discussed this way and people involved respect one another's beliefs and ideas kind of puts us all in that place that John Lennon imagined so long ago. That, friends, is a sign of a true work of art. You may say I'm a dreamer....but I'm not the only one....

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    Today is a day when Chapman assassineted John Lennon , the beatles,the legend of rock, the man, the father, the dreamer, the poet, the musician, the singer and the pacifist... and this man i hate for that have done. I was born in 1981 so i can't see the news on tv about his death but i have seen on the web the news that announce it a little time ago. For John: http://lyrics.rockmagic.net/lyrics/lennon_john/shaved_fish_1975.html#04

    Re: After 25 Years, John Lennon Still Lives (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:06:46 PM EST
    excuse me. In the phrase today is a day i have done an error, i wanted to put today is the day....and