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More on Torture, Rove and Jailing the Undocumented

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 10:48:33 AM EST
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Major thanks to TChris for his excellent posts this morning. He's about to go on a two week vacation, so make sure you catch all of them as you'll be stuck with me until his return.

I've been busy writing elsewhere today:

Writing is much more labor-intensive than practicing law, I'm glad to be going to work now.

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    More on Torture, Rove and Jailing the Undocumented | 7 comments (7 topical)
    Re: More on Torture, Rove and Jailing the Undocum (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 11:42:23 AM EST
    Your commentary on the bloggers was interesting and seemed extremely fair to all involved. I agree with your view of the burden people face from extended or undue prosecution. I have no sympathy for the Plame investigation participants because the entire messy investigation could have been avoided by simple honesty on their part in the beginning. Each lie had to be supported by more lies and any truth was taken only by force. Maybe a valuable lesson can be seen there as well.

    Re: More on Torture, Rove and Jailing the Undocum (none / 0) (#2)
    by cmpnwtr on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 12:05:27 PM EST
    Studies on the allocation of justice in this country are unanimous in pointing out that those who are convicted are predominantly the less affluent and the less powerful. It is a mistake for Luskin or anyone to suggest that Rove is "innocent" because he is not being prosecuted. If this were a someone else, someone less powerful, less able to procure expensive legal access, they would be in jail by now. Not a word has been spoken about the unknown, unreported agents and networks that were identified and possibly killed because of Rove's involvement in this disclosure. I can only hope that Fitzgerald is going after the more powerful author of this crime.

    Re: More on Torture, Rove and Jailing the Undocum (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 12:09:17 PM EST
    Jeralynn, I am a sometimes reader of your site, and I do not often agree with your POV. I read your Examiner article on bloggers and want to congratulate you on a well written and thought out piece. I tend to agree that the blogosphere is here to stay and that there is a much higher degree of ethics apparent now on the 'net. That is as opposed to the wild days of Usenet. I will say though that there are a lot of blog sites that are completely unaccountable for what they post - and some of them are fairly well read. I believe that as time goes on, market forces and "blogosphere pressure" will either bring those rogue sites (I consider TruthOut to be one) into line or they will simply disappear. Thank you for your time and efforts - even when I don't agree with them. LOL.

    Re: More on Torture, Rove and Jailing the Undocum (none / 0) (#5)
    by scribe on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 02:33:48 PM EST
    Narius - the point is, and I think TL's one post put it well, that no one really begrudges rich people the benefit of good criminal defense counsel who can make a good defense for their clients. Rather, the most offensive part of the criminal justice system to most people (were there a poll) would likely be that poor people can't get the same quality of representation. I've heard it said that, (at risk of opening an old can o' worms) if OJ were just some poor schlub from (pick a working-class neighborhood) he and his court-appointed counsel would have worked a plea to a manslaughter charge, gotten a deal for 10 or 20 years, and been done with it. He had the resources to fight and win. Most people don't. The presumption of innocence doesn't count for very much when you can't afford to build anything around it, or expend effort to tear down the prosecution's case. Or hire an expert to counter the prosecution's stable (w)horse. This, if only because every prosecutor relies upon the jury having in the back of their head that "we wouldn't be here if he wasn't guilty of something", regardless of the presumption of innocence. The commentary on bloggers was well said.

    Re: More on Torture, Rove and Jailing the Undocum (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 04:19:37 PM EST
    Way to take stuff way off-topic narius

    Re: More on Torture, Rove and Jailing the Undocum (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 05:07:36 PM EST
    Yes yu are correct Ms. Merrit, writing is much more fun than werking. Bloggers as tha Town Square, interesting perception, heck only knows thet we need some honest approaches to community polit forums. As to torture, posted my opinion on thet on another thread, then there is Bush's Brain, I dearly love analyzing a legal mind's rhetoric for tha kernal of truth. Luskin knows that his client is not out of tha woods just yet, read tha bracketed kernal by itself...... Bump and Update: Rove attorney Robert Luskin sent me this denial of Truthout's report: "It is insane and nonsensical, equal parts bizarre innuendo and alleged facts that do not square with reality or the American legal system. Truthout's stubborn nuttiness to the contrary, [some times things are simply as they appear:](K.Rove rhetoric)(we have heard this statement before and nothing is as simple as it appears) - Mr. Fitzgerald completed his investigation, reviewed the evidence, and concluded that it [simply does not support a charge.](At this time - my parens) There never was -- not for a second -- any secret meetings at my office, plea negotiations, secret sealed (or not so sealed, as the case may be) indictments, or last minute concessions." (I'll bet this atty is just as worried as P. Fitzpatrick about his future career Re: any hmmmmm hint ofa secret deal.)\ Hey yall, we still have a trial to do in January......I'd dearly love to see tha respective Witness Lists..... YeeeHawwww!

    Re: More on Torture, Rove and Jailing the Undocum (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 05:08:52 AM EST
    Jeralyn Merritt said, in her op-ed:
    The message the public should learn from the investigation of Karl Rove is that innocent people fall prey to grueling and debilitating criminal investigations, that when the federal government decides to bring its awesome powers to bear down upon you, it wreaks havoc with your life and jeopardizes not only your freedom but your job, your reputation and your faith in justice. The grand jury should serve as both a sword and a shield. The truth is, it is too often a tool of the prosecution.
    Amen, and amen. Even though I am a political oponent, this paragraph should be framed and hung on the wall of every American who is not intimately familar with how a federal criminal investigation really works. Most people assume guilt during investigations because they apply the very understandable but logically flawed reasoning of "where there is smoke there must be fire." I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar that a large majority would radically change their thinking if they had been exposed to the reality of an investigation by the federal government. Your treatment of bloggers and the MSM was fair and right on the mark. I hope a lot of people, in the blogosphere and out, read it closely.

    More on Torture, Rove and Jailing the Undocumented | 7 comments (7 topical)