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John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bushite

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 08:12:00 AM EST
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I'm watching Sen. John McCain on Meet the Press. David Gregory is the host. The topic is Iraq. He seems to be weaseling to me. He thinks Rumsfeld has done a poor job but won't call for his resignation. Serious mistakes have been made but he has confidence in the President.

He says Iraq is not in civil war, we can fix it. He backs the war. There should be no date set for withdrawal.

The difference between him and Bush is what?

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    John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bushite | 55 comments (55 topical)
    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#1)
    by soccerdad on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 10:01:36 AM EST
    There is no belief, no principle, no part of his self-respect that McCain wont sacrifice to become president. He will kiss Bush's butt until doing so proves to hurt him politically at which time he will then slam Bush.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#2)
    by Steven Sanderson on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 10:57:57 AM EST
    Ever a master contortionist, John McCain has successfully twisted maverick into being synonymous with sycophantic coward.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#3)
    by Bill Arnett on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 11:08:09 AM EST
    The difference? Back in 2000 McCain was indeed a plain-spoken, honest, intellectual man. Bush was NEVER any of those things, but he has so radicalized the Republican Party that he has managed to corrupt and co-op McCain, who is now every bit as idiotic, dishonest, and a sell-out to corporations and the religious right as Bush himself. It has been sad to witness the collapse of a man and his honor as McCain has steadily morphed into Bush-Lite. Birds of a feather flock together, and these vultures are the greatest threat we face in America, and the world, today and in the immediate future.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#4)
    by Bill Arnett on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 11:13:11 AM EST
    The difference? Back in 2000 McCain was indeed a plain-spoken, honest, intellectual man. Bush was NEVER any of those things, but he has so radicalized the Republican Party that he has managed to corrupt and co-op McCain, who is now every bit as idiotic, dishonest, and a sell-out to corporations and the religious right as Bush himself. It has been sad to witness the collapse of a man and his honor as McCain has steadily morphed into Bush-Lite. Birds of a feather flock together, and these vultures are the greatest threat we face in America, and the world, today and in the immediate future.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#5)
    by Bill Arnett on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 11:15:03 AM EST
    Apologies for the double post - obviously there are still problems posting comments!

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#6)
    by Sailor on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 12:15:55 PM EST
    how mccain can back bush after being swiftboated by him is truly pretzel logic.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 12:25:53 PM EST
    Remember, as cheesy and rhetorical as it may sound, it was McCain's sacrifices that gave you wannabe super-plenipotentiaries an opportunity to spew your drivel. Instead of your usual criticism of others, why not offer specific profiles of those you believe might better serve the electorate like John Kerry, Ted Kennedy and of course yourselves.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 12:37:54 PM EST
    Being a part of a killing machine that was responsible for the slaughter of two million peace loving Vietnamese has nothing to do with free speach. Don't talk such drivel. Grow up.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 12:53:59 PM EST
    OW: Yes, you too can add yourself to the wannabe list. I'm quite sure that it is only appropriate that we pin "the slaughter of two million peace loving Vietnamese," on Senator McCain excluding of course the collateral damage that occurred while he was caged in the Hanoi Hilton. While we are at it, how about making the Senator responsible for the Pol Pot regime as well? Drivel on brave wannabe!

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 01:03:43 PM EST
    Pol Pot came to power in the vacuum left by the collapse of South Vietnam and the incessant illegal bombing of Cambodia. Kissinger's genocidal gift to the war on terror, my mistake make that communism.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 01:12:46 PM EST
    OW: Let's end the obfuscation. Your historical prowess is commendable. But, as I stated earlier, instead of your usual criticism of others, why not offer specific profiles of those you believe might better serve the electorate.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 01:37:49 PM EST
    urright. Not being a US citizen I am little qualified to propose anyone, enough to say I hope it is someone with enough statesman-like qualities that he or she can put an end to this despotic power play that seems to be the whole of US policy, both domestic and foriegn. It is your argument that US wars of choice have anything to with protecting free speech and by default the constitution that is so far off the mark that it brings such derision from myself.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 03:47:07 PM EST
    If our Constitution was "so far off the mark," I doubt very much that we would be the most powerful Country on earth. Sure, we have made many mistakes along the way for which we will readily own up to, but we are obviously not as depressed and oppressed as your "derision," reflects. Stop the spin and obfuscation. Today's media and internet allows us to educate ourselves to a point where we can opine rather intelligently on virtually any topic or issue eliminating the excuse of our "not being qualified," to do so. After all, you felt qualified to jump into this discourse, did you not?

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#14)
    by Slado on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 05:54:50 PM EST
    I guess I'll answer the questions how much different is McCain by asking TL and other how much different is Hillary? The only thing she's done is rough up Rummy, an easy target. Other then that she's right in line with McCain. But that doesn't matter to the hard core left becuase she's untouchable. And don't send the, hey Slado you must not have read my post, I'm talking generaly.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#15)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 08:01:28 PM EST
    Remember, as cheesy and rhetorical as it may sound, it was McCain's sacrifices that gave you wannabe super-plenipotentiaries an opportunity to spew your drivel.
    How about mine? Am I chopped liver here? I'm a US Army veteran (E-5), and I would be ecstatic if my long-ago service did something to reverse the course of the fascists, traitors and morons who have usurped our government and are now trying desperately to cancel our freedoms. Is that "drivel" in your universe? When did you serve?

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#16)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 08:07:56 PM EST
    I guess I'll answer the questions how much different is McCain by asking TL and other how much different is Hillary?
    Can't speak for anyone else here, but Hillary's popularity among Democratic voters seems to be all in the minds of the Republicans looking for ammo. Hillary is not a leader and she does not seem to have any principles except the finger to the wind, which is why I don't care for her. McCain is an aging whore whose makeup no longer conceals the deadness in his eyes, same result.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 10:05:28 PM EST
    This is just McCain demonstrating that he's nothing more than a publicity hound willing to to anything to get a little more attention these days.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#18)
    by terryhallinan on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 12:45:43 AM EST
    The difference between McCain and Bush is the difference between the soldier and the chickenhawk, the difference between integrity and dishonesty, the difference between right and wrong, the difference between day and night. It is indeed sad to see McCain lowering himself like Hubert Humphrey once did in the vain hope of becoming president with no realistic chance of being nominated, let alone elected. I disagree with McCain on nearly everything except the need to return government to the people. And that is enough to wish a great American hero well.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#19)
    by soccerdad on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 04:14:56 AM EST
    But that doesn't matter to the hard core left becuase she's untouchable.
    ever spewing wingnut talking points the hard core left doesn't like Hillary. Sorry to ruin your fantasy

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 04:41:23 AM EST
    Part of it is the politician's art - saying the standard lines to get elected, but leaving various groups thinking that you're really on their side at heart. Bush is good at it - Business says, Bush panders to the christian coalition crowd but he's a busines man at heart looking out for our interests. The christians say, Bush panders to the business but at the end of the day he lets God guide his decisions. Ect. The same can be said with McCain and Hillary. McCain has to get in line with Bush to be acceptable to the republican base. He's gambling that his mainstream appeal will survive based on his very long record as a reformer. Same with Hillary - she's trying to talk her way to the center by getting tough on Iraq but hopes the base remebers that she's been a liberal for 20 years. McCain, Bush and Hillary can all say the EXACT same things during a debate on iraq, but I think their respective supporters are all confident that at heart McCain is a moderate and a reformer, Bush is a staunch conservative and Hillary is a liberal.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 05:21:13 AM EST
    How about mine? Am I chopped liver here? I'm a US Army veteran (E-5), and I would be ecstatic if my long-ago service did something to reverse the course of the fascists, traitors and morons who have usurped our government and are now trying desperately to cancel our freedoms. No Repack, you certainly are NOT "chopped liver." You are an Honorable Dischargee for which the Country thanks you for your service. But referring to your fellow countymen and women as "fascists, traitors, morons, and whores," begs the question, Why have you and your family remained in this Country given all of the "better" alternatives that exist?

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 05:53:38 AM EST
    But referring to your fellow countymen and women as "fascists, traitors, morons, and whores," begs the question, Why have you and your family remained in this Country given all of the "better" alternatives that exist?
    I can't answer for Repack, but this isn't really a difficult question. It's a rare person that will sell their house, quit their job and leave their family and culture behind just because they don't like the people currently in charge. That's especially the case when the voters can throw out the bums every 4 years.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#23)
    by sarum on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 06:27:30 AM EST
    Mcain's advice is to send more troops to Iraq, did he forget Viet Nam, it didn't work there and it won't work in Iraq. This man could possibly be more dangerous than Bush. What skills do you have to learn to survive in a prisoner of war camp like the one in Viet Nam? Can some Dr. shed any light on this, I'm sure studies have been done.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 06:31:45 AM EST
    "fascists, traitors, morons, aging whores, idiotic, dishonest, vultures, cowards, and now bums." The classic liberal approach - never at a loss for derrogatory and disparaging labels but rarely the ability to suggest better alternatives.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#25)
    by Peaches on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 06:46:39 AM EST
    The classic liberal approach - never at a loss for derrogatory and disparaging labels but rarely the ability to suggest better alternatives.
    The classic Rovian approach. Take a quote out of context without any reference to where it came from and then attempt to paint it as "liberal" with the hope the left will run defend itself against a baseless charge.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 07:20:53 AM EST
    Sarum writes:
    What skills do you have to learn to survive in a prisoner of war camp like the one in Viet Nam? Can some Dr. shed any light on this, I'm sure studies have been done.
    What a totally despicable comment. How typical of many commentators from the Left. Why can't you just say you disagree with the man's politics and not attack his service and disrespect the years of terrible treatment and how much that effected his life, and those who loved him lives. RePack - No, you aren't chopped liver, and I thank you for your service, even if I do totally disagree with your position on national defense, and consider most of your comments to be attempts to insult rather than presuade or argue. You write:
    I would be ecstatic if my long-ago service did something to reverse the course of the fascists,
    Actually, it did. You do remember the cold war, don't you? And wasn't it Milton who wrote:
    "They also serve who only stand and wait."
    The ability of the US to continually field a standing military and to engage the Soviets and their peers when and where needed enforced the strategy of containment and led to our ultimate victory. Without that we would not now be free and arguing politics.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 07:21:57 AM EST
    Peaches: This was not a "quote," out of context but rather several terms used by others that, had you taken the time to peruse their prior comments, you would have readily recognized. Ripen up!

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#28)
    by Peaches on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 07:34:34 AM EST
    Urright,
    had you taken the time to peruse their prior comments, you would have readily recognized.
    The only thing I recognize is the troll you obviously are. The thread is about John McCain.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#29)
    by Sailor on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 08:17:29 AM EST
    anyone else remember when the thread was about bushlicker mccain?

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 08:19:16 AM EST
    Peach Flambeau: The use of terms like "fascists, traitors, morons, aging whores, idiotic, dishonest, vultures, cowards, bums," to describe US military vets, POW's and statesmen like Senator McCain is flame-baiting at its best. Indeed, the thread IS about Senator McCain and the differences between himself and President Bush so why reduce the discourse to personal attacks that do litle more than to expose one's own ignorance and insecurity?

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#31)
    by Peaches on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 08:43:59 AM EST
    Uraliar, Repack said "I'm a US Army veteran (E-5), and I would be ecstatic if my long-ago service did something to reverse the course of the fascists, traitors and morons who have usurped our government and are now trying desperately to cancel our freedoms. You added whore to the quote on Posted by urright August 21, 2006 06:21 AM
    But referring to your fellow countymen and women as "fascists, traitors, morons, and whores," begs the question,...
    and then on Posted by urright August 21, 2006 07:31 AM You extended the quote to include aging, idiotic, dishonest, cowards and bums
    "fascists, traitors, morons, aging whores, idiotic, dishonest, vultures, cowards, and now bums."
    Repack stated an opinion and gave his credentials. He has a right to express his views. But painting all liberals as sharing one individuals views and then lying and misrepresenting the original post is the work of a troll.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#32)
    by Peaches on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 08:45:51 AM EST
    Uraliar, Repack said "I'm a US Army veteran (E-5), and I would be ecstatic if my long-ago service did something to reverse the course of the fascists, traitors and morons who have usurped our government and are now trying desperately to cancel our freedoms. You added whore to the quote on Posted by urright August 21, 2006 06:21 AM
    But referring to your fellow countymen and women as "fascists, traitors, morons, and whores," begs the question,...
    and then on Posted by urright August 21, 2006 07:31 AM You extended the quote to include aging, idiotic, dishonest, cowards and bums
    "fascists, traitors, morons, aging whores, idiotic, dishonest, vultures, cowards, and now bums."
    Repack stated an opinion and gave his credentials. He has a right to express his views. But painting all liberals as sharing one individuals views and then lying and misrepresenting the original post is the work of a troll.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#33)
    by roger on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 08:53:56 AM EST
    Finally! Slado made a comment that I agree with, Hillary and McCain-2008! elect the trollop ticket! Repack- as another lefty, former E-5, I hear you!

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#34)
    by roger on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 08:55:46 AM EST
    "It's Johnny this, and Johnny that, and chuck him out, the lout, But he's hero of his country when the guns begin to shoot" _R Kipling some things never change

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#37)
    by Bill Arnett on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 10:57:30 AM EST
    Apologies for the double post; I hit preview in order to edit to final draft and now find the rough AND final draft posted!

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 11:01:43 AM EST
    Thanks Bill for slowing the pace. It'll give you and your fellow lefty groupies time enough to board the swiftboats back to your mothership - planet 9 I believe.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#39)
    by Bill Arnett on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 11:31:04 AM EST
    "Remember, as cheesy and rhetorical as it may sound, it was McCain's sacrifices that gave you wannabe super-plenipotentiaries an opportunity to spew your drivel." urright Vietnam (I was there, exposed to Agent Orange, and live beset with cancers, surgeries, and permanent nerve damage causing intractable pain --so I've paid my dues) had nothing whatsoever with preserving freedom of speech or protecting America from attack. I do agree that our military has preserved our "opportunity to spew [our] drivel", which is otherwise more properly called "freedom of speech" that is established by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. The only wars we ever fought that had anything to do with preserving our freedoms were the Revolutionary War and two World Wars (both of which were won by democrats). I know that just drives you crazy that we speak freely here and allow you to do so as well, but I would say that your opinion is your opinion, and whether I agreed or not, I would not characterize the statement of your opinion as "spewing drivel", but would instead simply politely state my own opinion in disagreement. You can argue FACTS all day long (the moon is 225,000 miles from here; No, at this time of year it is 330,00 miles away), but you cannot argue with another's opinion (the moon is beautiful tonight), for a person's opinion is uniquely their own. Peace.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#40)
    by Sailor on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 11:45:32 AM EST
    Thanks Bill for slowing the pace. It'll give you and your fellow lefty groupies time enough to board the swiftboats back to your mothership - planet 9 I believe.
    here's your cookie!

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#41)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 12:07:04 PM EST
    What despicable comment..So typical of the Left blah blah How despicably hypocritical coming from someone who didnt let a day go by without linking to the Swift-Scum during the election run-up. ppj, I know there must be times when you have a faint glimmer of insight into how FOS you are..

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 02:14:55 PM EST
    Jondee - Sir, you are lying. In fact, I honored Kerry for his service. Prove otherwise or stand exposed.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 02:40:33 PM EST
    PPJ: I too have honored Kerry for his service. It is he that chose to disgrace himself by throwing his medals aside and rewriting history as if he was some hero. These groupies can sure dish it out but have a difficult time taking it when someone enters their ward. Mr. Arnett, Thank you for your service as well, but really, save the "I've paid my dues," B.S. It gets tiring. Sailor-Boy - Thanks for the recipe.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#44)
    by Sailor on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 04:35:22 PM EST
    nice to know that urwrong and ppj consider themselves solemates (sic.)

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#45)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 08:06:44 PM EST
    ppj - No. You're lying. And shamelessly as usual. During the election run-up it was Swift-Vets de jour from you. I suppose you're going to tell me that they "honored his service". Shall I go back in the archives? Btw, Go F*ck yourself.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#46)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 08:08:10 PM EST
    Sir.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#48)
    by soccerdad on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 02:49:40 AM EST
    PPJ you lieing sack of self rightous pig excrement. You dishonored Keery by jumping on the swift boating of his service with both feet. You think you are the only one who had to work hard or sacrifice? God what a disgusting whinning piece of puke. The one's who really sacrificed are the ones that are being shot at every freakin day, the ones coming back with brain injuries or in a box, the ones with PTSD, the ones that are homeless. What a whinner. To paraphrase you. You knew what you were getting into so shut up.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 04:54:56 AM EST
    PPJ: You'd find few individuals that have been as supportive as I of our military veterans. But frankly, I'm sick and tired of hearing the "woe is me," and " I've paid my dues," B.S. from veterans who use this technique to express their grudges against their Country and to advance their liberally-twisted agendas. There is nothing more tragic then the loss of life, limb, or mental faculty - these are the outcomes of war, and every other one of life's intended or unintended calamities including illness and disease, automobile accidents, and terrorist attacks to mention a few. Those who are fortunate enough to have the support and spiritual strength of their community, church, and family members needed to move on, do so. Those who don't choose to spew their drivel on sites like this by blaming everyone but themselves as a way of gaining temporary relief. Stop the "blame game," and restore your decency and self-respect.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 06:57:56 AM EST
    uuright - Since you are the "new boy" here I will take a few moments to point out to you that I am something that you may have never met before. I am a Social Liberal who believes in a strong national defense. I have spent over three years on this blog pushing the point that a person can be for national health care, women's right's, gay right's, etc., while also being for defense. I believe the WOT is real and that by and by Bush's strategy has been correct. I have mentioned that I am the son of a southern share cropper who had an opportunity to view the shortfalls and strengths of the south, and who escaped into the military as a way into higher education and a better life. I have never spoken of my own service except to note that I spent ten years in Naval Aviation, doing so to chide those on the Left who criticize and blame the military will enjoying the security and free society that the military has brought them. I have never spoken of specifics, nor will I beyond saying I was lucky and, looking back, consider myself fortunate to have been accepted and fortunate to have served. And when I read Bill A's comments I cringe because he is using what happened to him as a crutch for political comments. But he has that right, uuright. He bought and paid for that right with his body and his life and you have no right to criticize him for that. Point out his errors, destroy his logic, all of that is fair game. But leave his service and wounds alone. That they do not validate his politics should be obvious to all, and if they ever do, God help this country. And remember. When you do you become your enemy. You become the flip side of the same coin that people like SD lives on.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 07:17:57 AM EST
    SD and Jondee - I invite both of you to prove your statements by links to actual comments. You will not because your claims have no basis in fact. In short, you lie. SD - Your pitiful attempts to insult me are just examples of your inability to have a rational debate. I also find that your inability to support my comments about the rights of Bill Arnett proof positive that you view the military as much less than you and only to be used as whipping boys for your various claims about strategy, torture, etc.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#52)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 07:26:20 AM EST
    PPJ: You present a far more civilized argument when you avoid the profanity and the diatribe. I would respectfully suggest however that Mr. Arnett's rights, like everyone elses, are inherently inalienable as a result of his citizenship. It is not as you suggest, something that someone buys and pays for as in a "ransom." His service to the Country is intended to PRESERVE those rights for not only himself, but for everyone else as well future generations. I would wholeheartedly agree with you that Mr. Arnett has every right to express his views and criticisms. However, the fact that he has served his Country does not exempt him or anyone else from having those views and criticisms challenged. This process is exactly what Mr. Arnett fought to preserve.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#53)
    by Peaches on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 07:26:54 AM EST
    Ppj, I was kind of touched reading your defense of Bill Arnett. I am not a military guy. I don't believe in war. My son will not serve in the military. But, I do honor the work veterans have done and thank them for their service. But, Jim, you said,
    And just as I honored Kerry's service I condemned in strong terms his actions after he returned home and his smearing of hundreds of thousands of men and women who served honorably.
    Condemn is right, if I remember right. You were on the swift boat campaign. You say to Urright
    But he has that right, uuright. He bought and paid for that right with his body and his life and you have no right to criticize him for that. Point out his errors, destroy his logic, all of that is fair game. But leave his service and wounds alone.
    Kerry paid for that right also. He served and witnessed some things in Veit Nam that were atrocious and then had the courage to come home and speak about it. Most of what he spoke out about have now been confirmed. He never disparaged the job soldkiers were doing. He questioned the leadership that put those soldiers in danger and he questioned the leaders effectiveness in pursuing the war. If a veteran cannot come home from a war and speak his conscience about his experience, then I echo your prayer God help this country. It was about politics, Jim. You wanted your guy to win. You were willing to disparage a veteran with stellar record because he you did not agree with his politics. Your guy had a much more questionable record as a veteran, but service doesn't count when politics are at stake. Your honor for Kerry's service only goes fo far. In then end, you were willing to stoop to the the Swift voters for the sake of politics.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#54)
    by Peaches on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 07:27:17 AM EST
    Ppj, I was kind of touched reading your defense of Bill Arnett. I am not a military guy. I don't believe in war. My son will not serve in the military. But, I do honor the work veterans have done and thank them for their service. But, Jim, you said,
    And just as I honored Kerry's service I condemned in strong terms his actions after he returned home and his smearing of hundreds of thousands of men and women who served honorably.
    Condemn is right, if I remember right. You were on the swift boat campaign. You say to Urright
    But he has that right, uuright. He bought and paid for that right with his body and his life and you have no right to criticize him for that. Point out his errors, destroy his logic, all of that is fair game. But leave his service and wounds alone.
    Kerry paid for that right also. He served and witnessed some things in Veit Nam that were atrocious and then had the courage to come home and speak about it. Most of what he spoke out about have now been confirmed. He never disparaged the job soldkiers were doing. He questioned the leadership that put those soldiers in danger and he questioned the leaders effectiveness in pursuing the war. If a veteran cannot come home from a war and speak his conscience about his experience, then I echo your prayer God help this country. It was about politics, Jim. You wanted your guy to win. You were willing to disparage a veteran with stellar record because he you did not agree with his politics. Your guy had a much more questionable record as a veteran, but service doesn't count when politics are at stake. Your honor for Kerry's service only goes fo far. In then end, you were willing to stoop to the the Swift boaters for the sake of politics.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#55)
    by Sailor on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 07:34:01 AM EST
    I condemned in strong terms his actions after he returned home and his smearing of hundreds of thousands of men and women who served honorably.
    Bringing facts to light is not smearing anyone. et al, here are some examples of ppj honoring Kerry's service:
    The problems were compounded when it became general knowledge that he had lied about being in Cambodia Christmas of '68
    BTW, he was quoting powerline for his info above. Next:
    And remember how I said: "SD - No "new" bad news about his military record? Doesn't surprise me. The Repubs raised about all the issues possible. Of course the day isn't over yet." Looks like I may have spoke too soon.
    and he linked to malkin for his 'proof' on that one. and yet again he endorses the swiftboating of Kerry:
    Forgetting about all the "who shot who, and the wounds, etc.," I find that the Swift Boat Vets brought three killer issues to the forefront of public opinion.
    So, this is how ppj 'honors' Kerry's service.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 07:37:57 AM EST
    ppj - You're right Jim, I made the whole thing up about you Swift-Vetting Kerry. A tough old gal like you who know's what it's like to have been there would never smear a man's service, you're much too honorable for that.

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#57)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 07:54:17 AM EST
    Ms. Poker is quite silent about the recently declassified Vietnam documents I've noticed. One would think she'd up up-in-arms about the government "smearing hundreds of thousands of veterans". How 'bout it ppj? Isnt the releasing of those documents a slap in the face to all those who served honorably?

    Re: John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bu (none / 0) (#58)
    by soccerdad on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 08:27:11 AM EST
    In short, you lie.
    Uh, no. Your role in helping promote the swift boating is well remembered by all, except you.
    SD - Your pitiful attempts to insult me are just examples of your inability to have a rational debate.
    I will try better at my insults. It takes two to have a rational debate, why would I waste my limited time debating an unarmed person such asyourself.
    I also find that your inability to support my comments about the rights of Bill Arnett proof positive that you view the military as much less than you and only to be used as whipping boys for your various claims about strategy, torture, etc.
    You can view things any way your biased and deluded brain wants to see them. I never called into question his rights. I dont whip on the military as an entity, only those who disgrace it be they civilians or military. I have 2 nephews at Annapolis and am very proud of them.

    John McCain on Meet the Press: Just Another Bushite | 55 comments (55 topical)