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Death Penalty Challenged

The Supreme Court has agreed to decide whether the use of lethal injections to execute inmates -- a procedure that may inflict unnecessary pain and suffering -- violates the Eighth Amendment's prohibition of cruel and unusual punishments.

The high court will hear a challenge from two inmates on death row in Kentucky - Ralph Baze and Thomas Clyde Bowling Jr. - who sued Kentucky in 2004, claiming lethal injection amounts to cruel and unusual punishment. Baze has been scheduled for execution Tuesday night, but the Kentucky Supreme Court halted the proceedings earlier this month.

There are, of course, broader reasons to oppose the death penalty, as a new ABA study of capital punishment in Ohio demonstrates.

The system is full of racial and geographic imbalances, too many defendants don't get adequate legal help and too many protections of offenders' rights are absent from the capital punishment process, according to a 30-month review of Ohio's death penalty system by the American Bar Association.

The authors of the report want Ohio to suspend executions until the flaws in its criminal justice system are corrected. That would be good advice for every state that relies on death as a punishment.

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    Death penalty (none / 0) (#1)
    by Strait Woman on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 11:55:05 AM EST
    At last, I think they're going at this the right way.  Unless the death penalty can be applied fairly, equitably, it shouldn't be applied at all.

    Good but please clarify (none / 0) (#2)
    by Saul on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:12:34 PM EST
    Is the SC just going to hear on whether the method of execution violates the 8th amendment or are they going to decide if execution period is wrong and should be stopped. If its the former than that does not do anything.  They will just find another way that's agreeable with the court to execute.  Never understood why they think that capital punishment is a deterant of crime.  When someone is committing a crime that person does not stop and say "Hold on here, if I continue with this crime according to Title 1 section 6 I could be put to death"  Passion knows no reason.

    crimes of passion? In fact, are any?

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#4)
    by Saul on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:35:28 PM EST
    I think so.  I think that most of the murders have anger involved.  Yes they are some that are just cold blooded with no ryhme or reason but I think for the most part all murders are crimes of passion.

    Parent
    Do some googling (none / 0) (#5)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:03:10 PM EST
    many, if not most, DR inmates are the worst of the worst. They killed because they could because they wanted to. Sometimes they were "angry," sometimes not - as if that matters.

    Various Death Row inmates:

    Williams, 51, a co-founder of the Crips gang in Los Angeles, was sentenced to death for murdering a convenience store clerk in Whittier (Los Angeles County) and two motel owners and their daughter during robberies in 1979.
    As of April 2003, there were 610 people under death sentence in California [PDF]. [...] Another is Ricardo Rene Sanders, who gunned down over a dozen people during a robbery of a Big Boy restaurant in 1980.
    Summary: Woods, Greg Sloan, and Pat Sweet went to the home of Juan Placencia in Garrett, Indiana to steal a television. Woods was armed with a knife. Sweet stayed in the yard, while Woods and Sloan rang the doorbell. When Placencia answered Woods immediately jumped in and stabbed him with the knife. When he fell back and asked for help, Woods then stabbed him again repeatedly and took money from his wallet.
    7 year old Tamika and her 9 year old niece, Annie, were walking back from the candy store to their home when they were confronted by Brown and Alton Coleman. Brown and Coleman convinced them to walk into the woods to play a game. Once there, they removed Tamika's shirt and tore it into small strips which they used to bind and gag the children. When Tamika began to cry, Brown held her nose and mouth while Coleman stomped on her chest. After carrying Tamika a short distance away, Annie was forced to perform oral sex on both Brown and Coleman, then Coleman raped her. Brown and Coleman then choked her until she was unconscious. When she awoke, they were gone. Tamika was found dead in the bushes nearby, strangled with an elastic strip of bedsheet.
    Summary: Muncie Police Officers were dispatched to a traffic accident and observed an abandoned utility truck. The truck was towed and Lambert was found nearby crawling under a vehicle. Lambert had spent most of the night getting drunk and after telling officers he was trying to sleep, was arrested by Officer Kirk Mace for Public Intoxication. He was patted down and placed into the back of a police car driven by Officer Gregg Winters for transport to jail. A few minutes later, the police vehicle was observed sliding off the road into a ditch. Lambert was still handcuffed in the backseat and Officer Winters had been shot 5 times in the back of the head and neck. A .25 handgun was found laying on the floorboard. It was later learned that Lambert had stolen the .25 pistol from his employer.
    Summary: Jay and Kathy Tyler picked up Brandy Southard from her work in Evansville and were chased by Stephenson to an intersection in rural Warrick County, where he emptied a 30 round SKS Assault Rifle into the pickup truck and their bodies. Each were then stabbed repeatedly. Stephenson was also convicted of the earlier Burglary and Theft from Southard's residence.

    Zachary Snider, age 10, lived in the same subdivision and was often seen in the company of the 20 year old Stevens. Stevens attended and videotaped one of Zachary's little league baseball games. Zachary's father eventually warned Stevens to stay away from his son when he learned that Stevens had taken the boy fishing. A month later, Zachary turned up missing one afternoon. He was last seen at a young friend's home, who was told by Zachary that he was going to Stevens' home. In the midst of a massive local search for Zachary, Stevens' brother reported to police that Stevens had confessed to him that he murdered Zachary. He then directed police to a remote location near a bridge, where Zachary's body and bicycle were recovered. Stevens was arrested and gave a complete confession. He claimed that he had been having sex with Zachary for 2 or 3 months. When Zachary came over to his house, they performed oral sex in Stevens' room. Zachary threatened to tell his parents about having sex and Stevens decided he did not want to go through what he went through in Marion County. Stevens smothered Zachary with a pillow, then strangled him with an electrical cord around his neck. When Zachary continued to gasp, Stevens got a plastic garbage bag and wrapped it over his head. He then put Zachary and his bicycle in the car, drove to a bridge in a remote area, and threw them both over. He returned the next morning, fearing that police would connect him to the trash bag, removed it from Zachary's head, and threw it out along the highway on the way home. A similar bag was recovered by police in the area described by Stevens. Stevens later admitted to psychologists that he had molested 25-30 children, and had ejaculated on Zachary when he killed him.

    That's generally who capital punishment is reserved for.

    Parent

    That may be true. (none / 0) (#6)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:21:06 PM EST
    It's no reason to torture them to death though.

    Even a crazed pit bull or other type of dog that kills or harms a human is put down more painlessly than people executed by lethal infection are.

    And I've never heard of a dog, innocent of hurting a human, accused of it and convicted on the slim-ness of evidence that some death row inmates have been convicted on and put down.

    It all comes back to revenge and bloodthirst - the lousiest justifications for the death penalty there are...

    Parent

    Did I say it was a reason (none / 0) (#8)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:25:35 PM EST
    to torture them to death?

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:26:43 PM EST
    Prove your (none / 0) (#11)
    by Wile ECoyote on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 04:39:47 PM EST
    statement.  How do you know pit bulls are put down more painlessly than people executed by lethal injection.  Dr. Pou, where are you?

    Parent
    Well, I'll tell you what, wile (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 04:50:06 PM EST
    About three weeks ago I had a medical procedure done that required general anasthetic. When the ansthesiologist started the drip I felt it like a very hot fire burning up the vein  in my arm and I heard him say "you'll be asleep in a few mome........ Mr. "___" your operation is over - just lie here for awhile and we'll get you back to your ward".

    It was that fast. They could have cut my head off while I was out and I never would have felt a thing.

    Animal Euthanasia

    Pets are almost always euthanized via intravenous injection, typically a very high dose of a barbiturate such as pentobarbital. Unconsciousness, respiratory then cardiac arrest follow rapidly, usually within 30 seconds[2]. Observers generally describe it as a quick and peaceful death.

    Some veterinarians perform a two-stage process: An initial injection that simply renders the pet unconscious and a second shot that induces death. This allows the owner the chance to say goodbye to a live pet without their emotions stressing the pet.

    It took eight minutes for Frances Newton to die from the time they pumped the chemicals in her.

    Parent
    Having actually euthanized animals (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Jen M on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 06:18:09 PM EST
    for the past 20 years, I can tell you the euthanasia solutions work very quickly. Unless the vet draws up an insufficient amount, the dog or cat or whatever is gone in a few seconds.

    ONE drug. ONE shot. Gone.

    I never understood this three drug thing. And a paralytic? first? The only reason I could ever figure was they wanted some elaborate ritual thing.  

    Parent

    the issue isn't how vet's kill (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by allwrits on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 06:37:38 PM EST
    Most states have outlawed the drugs at issue here for use in animals.

    Parent
    it is remotely possible (none / 0) (#23)
    by Jen M on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 06:49:44 PM EST
    I'm not sure, mind but there is a tiny possibility that someone said prove pitbulls are put down more humanely than people put to death by lethal injection.

    And beauthanasia is still in use.

    Parent

    I think allwrits meant that (none / 0) (#25)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 06:59:47 PM EST
    lethal injection drugs have been outlawed for animal euthanasia...

    Parent
    we use them (none / 0) (#26)
    by Jen M on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 07:07:36 PM EST
    its faster than anything else. Exanguination is pretty quick, but messy. Forget hammer on the head thing, thats just disgusting. And we certainly don't want to use gas, or decompression - expensive equipment.

    Parent
    I wonder then (none / 0) (#27)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 07:21:42 PM EST
    why the drugs are so slow acting in human execution, and why so apparently painful?

    Parent
    different drugs (none / 0) (#30)
    by Jen M on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 05:39:45 PM EST
    As I understand it from things I've read (none / 0) (#17)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 06:21:44 PM EST
    the paralytic has no pain dampening effect. They just cannot move, no matter how much pain the other drugs cause.

    Parent
    no (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Jen M on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 06:24:31 PM EST
    it doesn't. Its a paralytic and thats it. It should be given after the analgesic. Even after the anesthesia. Unless you are giving a cocktail.

    Parent
    It would seem that lethal injection (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 06:29:47 PM EST
    is nothing more than sadistic barbarism, that sane people would not inflict on even an animal....

    Parent
    Less outrage caused (none / 0) (#18)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 06:24:02 PM EST
    than strapping them into an immobilized position and gagging them so they can't scream?

    Parent
    What are the weight of the pets? (1.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Wile ECoyote on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 05:12:54 PM EST
    Like I say, call Dr. Pou. get her mix of chemicals.

    Parent
    Why bother? (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 05:25:44 PM EST
    The anesthetic had my out like a light in less than 10 seconds.

    Try to pay attention wile....

    Parent

    except they don't kill people with the same drugs (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by allwrits on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 06:56:44 PM EST
    They don't kill people with the same drugs that they kill animals with. The chemicals used to kill people are banned in most states for animals.  My understanding is that the lethal injection drug combination was basically worked out on a cocktail napkin 25+ years ago and never seriously studied since.

    Parent
    "injection".. not "infection" (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:22:33 PM EST


    Saul, the two Kentucky DR inmates (none / 0) (#10)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:57:47 PM EST
    bringing the suit.:
    Ralph Baze
    36 at the time
    Male, White

     This killer used an assault-type rifle to ambush two police officers in Powell County in January, 1992. Each officer was shot three times in the back. One officer was executed with a shot to the back of his head as he tried to crawl away.  

    Ronnie Bowling
    20 at the time
    Male, White
     This killer executed two gas station attendants in separate robberies in Laurel County in 1989.  He shot and killed a service station attendant during the early morning hours of January 20, 1989 and, again in the early morning hours of February 22, 1989, shot and killed a service station manager.  Both were shot while lying face down.
    Cap Punishment is not even a consideration in Kentucky, unless the following applies:
    Does the Death Penalty Apply to Every Murder?
    If Not, When Does The Death Penalty Apply?

    In Kentucky, the death penalty is not a possible punishment in every murder case. Under Kentucky law, the death penalty only applies in murders in which an aggravating circumstance exists.
    What is an aggravating circumstance?  The death penalty is a possible punishment in the following aggravated murders:

    A murder committed by a person who has a prior conviction for a capital offense, or who has a substantial history of serious assaultive convictions;

    A murder which occurs during the commission of the following crimes:
    Arson First Degree,
    Robbery First Degree,
    Burglary First Degree,
    Rape First Degree,
    Sodomy First Degree;

    A murder which occurs as a result of a destructive device, weapon or other device which would normally be hazardous to more than one (1) person;

    A murder committed for money or profit;

    A murder of a prison guard (on duty) by a prisoner;

    An intentional murder of more than one (1) person;

    An intentional murder of a:
    State or local public official,
    Police officer,
    Sheriff, or Deputy Sheriff, while in the line of duty;

    A murder of a victim, while the victim was protected from the murderer by a:
    Emergency Protective Order (EPO),
    Domestic Violence Order (DVO),
    Or, any other order designed to protect the victim.



    You are missing the main point (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Saul on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 04:59:40 PM EST
    No matter how you look at it your way or my way, Capital Punishement DOES NOT DETER crime.  I live in Texas, they execute one person per month here. No matter for what reasons or lack of reasons the murder was committed or how stupid the reasons were for the murder.    The numbers keep going up. Capital Punishement DOES NOT DETER CRIME and that is the main reason it was created for.  To punish by death so no other people would learn the consequences if you decided to commit a murder.   It doesn't work.  A greater punishment is to put them away for life with no parole.

    Parent
    those on DR were in the throes of "passion" when they murdered their victims, as though that somehow mitigated their actions. Clearly, for the most part, DR guys/gals were pretty cold-blooded and heartless in their actions.

    Parent
    get your facts right (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by allwrits on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 06:33:50 PM EST
    The two people involved in the litigation are THOMAS Bowling & Ralph Baze, NOT Ronnie Lee Bowling.  Thomas Bowling, according to press reports, was just given access to DNA evidence in the case that could very well clear him (15 years+ after the trial).  The case against Bowling is largely circumstantial (the state's theory is that he killed the wrong people) & the one description given of the actual killer -- by a witness who disappeared before the trial --  purportedly varies markedly from Bowling both in height and weight.  

    Parent
    Fair enough, wrong Bowling. (none / 0) (#29)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 07:32:59 PM EST
    My appologies.

    (Who'd a thunk there'd be TWO Bowlings on KY DR? Must be a reginonal name or something...)

    Parent

    Texas (none / 0) (#31)
    by Matthew Byrne on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 08:17:47 PM EST
    Saul, it's much higher than once a month.  More like one every week or two.  On average since the 70s, about one every two weeks.  But sometimes three or more in a week.  Occasionally they'll kill two in a night.  

    the cocktail (none / 0) (#32)
    by diogenes on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 09:44:46 PM EST
    You're all right-we need to revise the cocktail for lethal injections.  Check DNA on everyone; make the death penalty work better.
    An executed inmate will never assault or kill another inmate or a guard in prison, at least.  
    Out of hundreds of executions there isn't one clear execution of an innocent man yet.