The "Bias" Of Blogs

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:58:50 PM EST
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By Big Tent Democrat

Speaking for me only

At Open Left, Tremayne does a study of the so called bias in the respective blogs. He tracked posts on controversial and supposedly unfavorable stories for particular candidates. His study is illuminating:

I searched 5 liberal blogs and, for fun and comparison, 3 conservative blogs using the following terms and Google (and going back 6 months).

Wright (minus Edelman)

Rezko

Ferraro

Bill Shaheen

Keep in mind that the blogs vary considerably in their "size" and I am just reporting total hits so results must interpreted accordingly. Here are the results, in each case from most hits to least:

WRIGHT

MyDD: 24,700

Redstate: 12,700

MichelleMalkin: 11,700

HuffingtonPost: 3,840

DailyKos: 1,150

PajamasMedia: 48

TalkLeft: 32

OpenLeft: 15

As a "pro-Hillary" site it is interesting that TalkLeft only had 32 mentions of Wright except that Jeralyn Merrit has, at times, discouraged discussion of the topic. The same has not been true for the Rezko story.

REZKO

HuffingtonPost: 2,710

MyDD: 1,450

DailyKos: 581

MichelleMalkin: 293

TalkLeft: 251

Redstate: 190

PajamasMedia: 40

OpenLeft: 19
. . .

What Tremayne did NOT note is that Talk Left has taken the position that Obama has done nothing wrong on Rezko and that much of the discussion has been of the legal issues involved in the case itself. This data proves that Talk Left has focused on substance and substantive critique.

Jeralyn is a Hillary supporter and I am severely critical of Obama's political style. But we have NEVER dwelled on personalities and trivial issues. I have been harshly critical of the Media and of many Left blogs. But we have never gratuitously attacked Barack Obama.

Personally, I am very proud of the work we have done this campaign season and believe that a fair appraisal of our writings, our moderation of the site and of the standards we have demanded of ourselves and our community ranks Talk Left second to no other blogs this election season.

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The "Bias" Of Blogs | 146 comments (146 topical)

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Jeralyn deserves all the credit (5.00 / 13) (#1)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:01:23 PM EST

Consider the serious dispute she and I are having in the previous post about the Florida revote.

Civil, substantive disagreement is the lifeblood of this site as I think Jeralyn and I have proven here for quite some time.

What other blog owner would accept such open and complete disagreement from a fellow front pager? I can think of none.

BTD, Your voice is invaluable here (5.00 / 9) (#9)
by Jeralyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:15:53 PM EST

Thank you. And it would be pretty boring if we agreed all the time.

Parent

A good time to repost your donation graphic :-) (5.00 / 3) (#45)
by Ellie on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:33:08 PM EST

Snail or online; paypal and wish lists. I meant to do it before, but I got slammed.

(I'm roaming and don't use PayPal as a cyberguest on other systems.)

I'd love to send TL a sock filled with green stuff different from what one might find growing my regular socks even on St. Patty's day. It's a clean sock, is what I'm saying.

Parent

: Good idea. I sent my $'s to HC last time so (5.00 / 2) (#57)
by Teresa on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:39:16 PM EST

I owe Jeralyn.

Parent

What you both said (none / 0) (#79)
by lambert on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:54:02 PM EST

What an oasis. You're draining the swamp. Even if your candidate does s... Well, er, suddenly change position every so often.

Parent

Hear, hear! (5.00 / 6) (#2)
by MaryGM on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:03:00 PM EST

That's why I keep coming back. Thank you BTD and Jeralyn!

TalkLeft (5.00 / 6) (#3)
by Coldblue on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:06:30 PM EST

is emerging as one of the must read political blogs.

Thanks to all.

It already has so emerged -- you can tell (5.00 / 3) (#6)
by Cream City on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:11:19 PM EST

because Jeralyn was on a major cable network today.

And the media always suffer from what is called a "reputation lag," meaning they're behind what's the buzz. That's not all bad, btw, as it's a lot better to have media trying to catch up with a changing agenda than trying to change it themselves.

Parent

to be fair (5.00 / 2) (#7)
by Jeralyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:14:34 PM EST

today's appearance is not an indication of TalkLeft's blogging prominence. I've been a cable news legal analyst for the past 12 years.

Parent

And one of the best (5.00 / 3) (#11)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:17:27 PM EST

For the youngsters who do not remember, Jeralyn was the best legal analyst during the OJ contretemps.

Why Geraldo does not have you on now is beyond me.

Parent

Geraldo still has a show? (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by andgarden on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:21:39 PM EST

Parent

On Fox (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:23:08 PM EST

but not all politics. A lot of legal type stories.

Parent

: A double whammy (5.00 / 2) (#26)
by andgarden on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:24:14 PM EST

Geraldo and Fox. It's the guaranteed recipe for me to not know that it exists.

Parent

How well I remember! (5.00 / 2) (#53)
by Boston Boomer on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:36:11 PM EST

I used to watch Geraldo every night during the OJ trial. Jeralyn rocks and so do you BTD.

Parent

I hear she was also pretty good (5.00 / 1) (#84)
by jtaylorr on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:00:20 PM EST

when she defended Timothy McVeigh

Parent

Allow me to say I've watched (none / 0) (#134)
by RalphB on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 11:06:17 PM EST

you for years before coming here. You've got a great TV presence and definitely class up the analysis.

Parent

i believe there is a video of it on (none / 0) (#109)
by hellothere on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:31:59 PM EST

taylor marsh also.

Parent

As one of the DK asylum seekers (5.00 / 8) (#4)
by litigatormom on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:07:23 PM EST

who has only been visting regularly for a few weeks, my reaction to the level of discussion here, from Jeralyn and BTD on the one hand, and the commenters on the other, is that it is about as free of blogospheric bias as is possible. Jeralyn and BTD freely admit their own views. Disagreement is respectful and intelligent, and the mods actually enforce codes of conduct.

Talkleft, the Sanctuary City of the blogosphere.

Especially since there will be no (5.00 / 3) (#5)
by andgarden on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:10:50 PM EST

amnesty at the other places. ;-)

Parent

Agreed... (5.00 / 2) (#8)
by kredwyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:15:13 PM EST

I've not looked (kinda afraid to peek), but I just got word that HRC supporters are persona non grata over at the Orange.

Somehow that just doesn't seem right...

Parent

Because of their "strike" or by some (5.00 / 2) (#12)
by Teresa on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:18:32 PM EST

pronouncement by the front page. Obviously, they haven't been treated respectfully for a long time but have they really asked them to leave?

One month today since my last post! Four years of wasted time. (tabbycat).

Parent

Yes in effect they did. (5.00 / 4) (#60)
by inclusiveheart on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:41:03 PM EST

The kind of sane and candid discussion that goes on here is simply impossible to have there anymore.

I'm much more interested in how to move these candidates to do better, and that isn't cool. You've gotta be 2000% for and 5000% against or else these days.

I really thought that this independent movement on the blogs would provide the unique service of pushing all of the candidates to be more progressive and help them to find the courage to be Democrats again. We sort of achieved that I thought in the 2006 race, but it seems that coalition has fallen apart and started to mimic the old standard mold of accepting candidates "as is" and digging in - except here and perhaps a few other places.

Anyhow, I'm grateful to Jeralyn and Armando for hosting a civilized place in which people can talk rationally about this primary contest.

Parent

"move these candidates to do better: (5.00 / 8) (#64)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:42:46 PM EST

That has been totally lost in the "Netroots."

It is the saddest consequence of this primary season and even before that.

Move On in particular has been an pernicious influence.

Parent

After November (5.00 / 4) (#73)
by andgarden on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:48:21 PM EST

you're going to have to do a postmortem on this.

Iraq isn't what it could have been for us, and blogs follow on issues. They do not lead.

Parent

I think we should be talking about (none / 0) (#85)
by inclusiveheart on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:01:49 PM EST

it now. This is our last chance to influence from the left. Once either one enters the general, they will run off to the center-right - unless they have clear instructions to the contrary.

Parent

I think that ship has sailed (5.00 / 2) (#88)
by andgarden on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:02:49 PM EST

Parent

It ain't over until Puerto Rico sings. n/t (none / 0) (#90)
by inclusiveheart on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:03:31 PM EST

Parent

: Puerto Rico, my heart's devotion (5.00 / 1) (#107)
by litigatormom on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:24:53 PM EST

Puerto Rico
You lovely island
Island of tropical breezes
Always the pineapples growing
Always the coffee blossoms blowing
This lyric is how the song "America" begins in the stage version of West Side Story. The "my heart's devotion, let it sink back in the ocean" lyric comes from the movie, not the original play.

Parent

It's amazing what a little discipline (5.00 / 6) (#87)
by Anne on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:02:20 PM EST

will do to elevate the discourse, and I think TL has managed to exert enough of it that people actually think before they "speak." I think the end result is not just more civil discussion, but more thoughtful and reasoned discussion.

I think most of us seem to have been looking for a place where we can debate the issues in a way that keeps us sharp, but not so hard-edged that we are unable to concede points, or be open to thinking about something in a new way. It may well be that the reason Jeralyn believes that we will come together for our nominee is that the atmosphere she nurtures here helps keep that door open - even if just a little.

I'm an Edwards supporter who spent so much time defending Hillary on another blog - just because hardly anyone else seemed at all interested in the facts - that, when Edwards dropped out, I was able to shift my support to her as soon as I finished grieving.

It's so nice to be able to take a supportive position without being called every derogatory name in the book - so thank you to Jeralyn and BTD and to all the people who comment here.

Parent

Here (5.00 / 2) (#82)
by litigatormom on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:58:22 PM EST

From kos' front page diary, Clinton's Civil War:

Meanwhile, Clinton and her shrinking band of paranoid holdouts wail and scream about all those evil people who have "turned" on Clinton and are no longer "honest power brokers" or "respectable voices" or whatnot, wearing blinders to reality, talking about silly little "strikes" when in reality, Clinton is planning a far more drastic, destructive and dehabilitating civil war.

Parent

: Sometimes I really get the (5.00 / 2) (#100)
by inclusiveheart on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:12:35 PM EST

impression that he has little regard and even less understanding of the people in the community he presides over. Totally his choice and he has every right to express his opinions as he should, but there are a lot of people in that group who I'd get into a (virtual) foxhole with because of the things they have shown they care about and believe in over the years - all of which will be much more important in the long run than the choice between two candidates in one presidential primary contest.

Parent
: This certainly supports the view (none / 0) (#114)
by oculus on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:57:17 PM EST

DK will support the nominee!

Parent
: DKOS thinks he can call 'civil war' (none / 0) (#146)
by thereyougo on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 02:18:39 AM EST

and it will be Hillary's fault.
He believes she's the problem because she's the old movement. He is pushing for the 50 state strategy when actually they're both good and its too soon to say it works. Otherwise Obama would have closed the deal by now. I think frustration is showing for their man.
He's a little full of himself.Its funny, 'çivil war'.....what a yawner. I don't post over there, but I like some of the front pagers. I used to think he was refreshing, but now, someone said at huffpo he like Arianna used to be a Republican, maybe he still is.
they're zealots over there.

Parent

I don't know...haven't looked... (none / 0) (#27)
by kredwyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:24:38 PM EST

Something about "word from on high"...

What strike?

It's not wasted...per se. I'm still here :) and that crazy BTD guy's floating around her somewhere.

Parent

Really? (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by geordie on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:23:09 PM EST

I have always identified myself as an Edwards supporter who didn't really support HRC but would vote for whoever the Dem nominee is. I did post on the "strike" diary, basically saying "count me in", so I would think I'd be targeted too. But I'm still a TU as of this evening, although that won't last long as I've stopped posting there - and I didn't see anything about being banned, although maybe that went up after I checked in there earlier.

Parent

Haven't been there in a few weeks... (none / 0) (#32)
by kredwyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:25:30 PM EST

but hadn't posted a TTFN diary as of yet.

What strike?

Parent

google the strike. Alegre wrote it and it has (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by Teresa on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:29:33 PM EST

been picked up everywhere. MSNBC, Fox, NY Times blog. It's kind of funny. I saw a link to it somewhere else so I had to go read it but that was my last visit. I do really miss my IGTNT friends.

Parent

I do miss the community-oriented (5.00 / 2) (#52)
by kredwyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:35:55 PM EST

diaries--IGTNT and WAYWO as well as the others who really work very hard on the research for their particular diaries.

But they get lost in the stuff that makes my head hurt.

Parent

I'm going to miss (5.00 / 4) (#55)
by Boston Boomer on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:38:40 PM EST

the Saturday morning bird diaries.

Parent

You could write them here (5.00 / 2) (#61)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:41:34 PM EST

E-mail Jeralyn for diary privileges.

Parent

We can do that? (5.00 / 1) (#80)
by kredwyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:55:03 PM EST

Parent

: Yes (5.00 / 1) (#93)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:04:30 PM EST

Parent

Birds scare the crap out of me. I got (5.00 / 1) (#62)
by Teresa on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:41:35 PM EST

trapped at home alone once with a bird in the house (and a dog). I got a broom and chased that bird everywhere.

Parent

Heh... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
by kredwyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:44:50 PM EST

Danger Kitty's figured out how to bring birds into the house...live...as toys.

Parent

This is O/T (5.00 / 3) (#77)
by litigatormom on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:53:06 PM EST

but its a great story. You know how many cats come home with dead mice and birds and offer them proudly to their owners? There was a story on TV last week (can't remember which one) in which, after the birth of a couple's first child, the family cat started coming home with tiny toy stuffed animals like Beanie Babies stolen from other people's yards, leaving them under the baby's crib.

Parent

: DKitty tends to bring her toy mouse (none / 0) (#98)
by kredwyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:12:17 PM EST

to bed. I dread the day she discovers a live one.

Parent
: cats (none / 0) (#101)
by wasabi on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:16:21 PM EST

I was trimming a Christmas tree one year and my cat brought in a huge maple leaf that had a bird's head securely attached by dried blood right at the center of the leaf.
I didn't hang it though...

Parent

lol (5.00 / 1) (#71)
by inclusiveheart on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:46:33 PM EST

Sounds like you scare birds more than they scare you. I'm sorry they scare you. They are pretty nice actually - most of them. :)

Parent

I didn't realise that there were suggestions (5.00 / 2) (#65)
by kredwyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:43:14 PM EST

re: digging up IRL stuff on HRC supporting kossacks.

If so, that's well beyond the pale.

Parent

I confess (none / 0) (#42)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:31:32 PM EST

I found it rather silly myself.

Parent

: It is, but I don't blame any Clinton supporter (5.00 / 3) (#50)
by Teresa on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:34:16 PM EST

for throwing in the towel over there. It's bad.

Parent
: It was, but it was no sillier than (5.00 / 2) (#66)
by inclusiveheart on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:43:20 PM EST

what inspired it. Basically, it is the silly season for everyone imo.

Parent

i am glad it is getting picked up. (none / 0) (#110)
by hellothere on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:34:23 PM EST

the attention just might help bring about a refocusing of thoughts after this primary is over.

Parent

Kos's ukase... (none / 0) (#103)
by lambert on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:18:22 PM EST

... is here.

En -- as we say -- joy.

Parent

Wow. I had not seen that. (none / 0) (#120)
by Joelarama on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:13:27 PM EST

Well. I suppose I've been sort of excommunicated, along with anyone else who supports Hillary, whatever our reasons.

Parent

kos is not known (none / 0) (#129)
by andgarden on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:43:54 PM EST

for choosing his words well.

Sadly, it seems like the only way he'll ever be in a position to walk this back is if Obama gets blown out in November. I'm frankly expecting that now.

Parent

I spoke to my parents last night. They are (none / 0) (#133)
by Joelarama on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:56:48 PM EST

about as liberal as someone of their generation, and Southern, and upper-middle-class, can be (they love their gay son). They both said they are sorry, but after reading about Obama's preacher (and following up online to make sure he said what was reported) they say they may vote for McCain.

I will vote for Obama if he is the nominee. But that really, really shook me. I think there is going to be some serious buyer's remorse come November. I'm a bit scared.

And, reading Kos' diatribe has me in a particularly dark mood. I don't know what I am going to say to Aravosis, either, next time I run into him.

Parent

I got the same story from my Grandparents (none / 0) (#135)
by andgarden on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 11:11:18 PM EST

Not about voting for McCain, but just not voting at all. I'm sure I'll be able to talk them out of it, but what about their friends? Ignoring senior citizens might work in a nowheresville caucus, but it isn't going to fly on election day in November, when there are no caucuses.

I'd bet money that we're about to witness a Dukasis style blowout. All I can say is that at least John Kerry didn't lose every single debate. Ed Rendell had it right the first time, and with this Wright stuff I think it's pretty clear that the Democrat will lose Pennsylvania for the first time since I was 3. Philadelphia's voting patterns can mirror Mississippi's in the right circumstances )PDF), which I think we're about to witness.

As to Aravosis: I used to think he would know a sinking ship when he saw one.

Parent

My theory is he sees himself (none / 0) (#137)
by Joelarama on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 11:26:03 PM EST

as joined at the hip with Kos.

You are even more pessimistic than I am about Obama's chances. But as my parents' reaction on Wright sinks in, I may lead me to be just as negative.

Really, they are smart and reasonable senior citizens. And this Wright thing has them really fired up against Obama.

Parent

Part of the reason this Wright thing (none / 0) (#138)
by andgarden on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 11:30:40 PM EST

hurts Obama so much is because of the way Obama comes off himself: he sounds like a preacher. My mother made this observation months ago, before Wright became a public problem.

I think this explains why he's turned off as much of the Democratic base as he's turned on, and to a lesser degree why he has such trouble with the mostly secular Jews in my family. He sets off the religion mixing with politics alarm.

Parent

: That's quite astute. nt (5.00 / 1) (#140)
by Joelarama on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 11:33:42 PM EST

Parent

I second that n/t :-) (5.00 / 1) (#69)
by dutchfox on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:44:40 PM EST

Parent

If you ignore all the deleting, that is (none / 0) (#39)
by jcsf on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:29:39 PM EST

Of course, this comment about the heavy use of deletions will get deleted, but there it is. At least they are upfront about their policy of deletions, as is RedState.

Still worthwhile to come here, as there are interesting and smart minds at work.

Parent

: We find it a necessary device (5.00 / 2) (#41)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:30:57 PM EST

We believe that it will become a minimal need once the primaries are over.
Deletion is better than fights.

Parent
: There's the topic maintenance (5.00 / 3) (#46)
by kredwyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:33:10 PM EST

and then there's the civility factor. Solid and persuasive arguments can be made w/o having to resort to poo flinging and name calling.
In fact, they should be made without both as both tend to detract from a well made argument.

Parent

This is what it's supposed to be (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by geordie on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:19:51 PM EST

When I first started posting at DKos, in late 2003 I think, I thought this kind of civil disagreement and discussion was what liberal blogs were all about. For me, it was about having as virtual water cooler with very intelligent and informed people.

Then the 2008 primary season happened - well, actually, before that, we started losing people like Armando from DKOs, and then the true madness set in early in 2008. I've also only been visiting here for a couple of weeks, but it's now the first place I check into on line. Jeralyn, you, along with your contributors, run a mighty fine joint here.

For the record (none / 0) (#20)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:21:49 PM EST

Both Jeralyn and I call Markos friend and while we may not agree with what he writes, we have great respect for him.

My disagreement with him has long been buried and I think the world of him. I do not think the world of his posts of late but that is fine too.

Parent

It doesn't bug you (none / 0) (#54)
by Edgar08 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:37:01 PM EST

That someone could be calling you and Jeralyn liars over on dailykos.com and Kos would allow that, and if someone called Kos a liar here you would delete that comment??

It would bug me.

Low road has always been fine with me, if that's where others chose to travel, but I know there are some things I can say at mydd that I can't say here, and I do do my best to respect that.

Great site.

Parent

There is no way (none / 0) (#59)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:40:37 PM EST

Kos can delete comments at his site. They are hundred of thousands per day.

If he allowed his front page posters to do it then I would have a problem.

Parent

Has he ever said (5.00 / 1) (#67)
by Edgar08 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:43:39 PM EST

Please don't do it?

Parent

Waste of time (none / 0) (#72)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:47:59 PM EST

I never equated Kos FP to Kos community and diaries.

My disrespect for the Kos community began MUCH BEFORE the primary wars. I wrote many a diary about it. Indeed, the primary wars were destined to be not only vicious but stupid there because the community is a wasteland.

People often say "in my day" but I truly mean it. In 2003-2004 the battles were vicious but they were between people fighting over substance and between intelligent commenters.

I'll give you a case in point - Bob Johnson. Bob Johnson would have to fight with some intellectual weapons, weapons he possesses, in 2003-2004. Now he half a**ess it to great acclaim. He never would have gotten away with it in 2003-2004.

Parent

: I've heard (none / 0) (#81)
by Edgar08 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:58:18 PM EST

Kos makes purges of people who say things he doesn't agree with. Things that he feels would degrade the quality of his site.
Given that policing each and every comment is systemically impossible, a statement would still only really take a couple minutes at the most.
But as they say. Time = Money.

Parent
: Yes, There Was A Time When You Had (none / 0) (#105)
by MO Blue on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:21:30 PM EST

to back up your statements with facts or you were called on it. Now facts are not important. Only in the direction of spin.

Parent
: Yep (none / 0) (#116)
by geordie on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:59:12 PM EST

He's one of the posters there I became most disappointed in.

Parent
: A moment of silence for Bob Johnson. (none / 0) (#119)
by oculus on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:07:14 PM EST

Will he rebound after the election?

Parent

Markos is indeed a good friend (none / 0) (#94)
by Jeralyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:05:04 PM EST

says Tia Jeralyn

Parent

IF you think I am crabby now (5.00 / 5) (#22)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:22:29 PM EST

you should have known me before Jeralyn reformed me.

heh^2 (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by andgarden on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:24:41 PM EST

Parent

But that's why we loved you! (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by geordie on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:24:57 PM EST

That and the Gators, of course.

Parent

That Is An Understatement (5.00 / 1) (#47)
by MO Blue on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:33:25 PM EST

but you always had an interesting POV and stimulated debate even when not a reformed fellow.

Parent

I missed armando when he (5.00 / 1) (#91)
by litigatormom on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:03:41 PM EST

disappeared, and BTD when he stopped posting at DK.

But then, I am slightly crabby myself.

Parent

I like to think of you as a (none / 0) (#58)
by Joan in VA on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:40:33 PM EST

proponent of the Socratic Method rather than just irritated that we are so slow to catch on sometimes.

Parent

: I'll go with that . . . (none / 0) (#76)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:51:02 PM EST

Parent

I, Also, Want To Thank Jeralyn & BTD (5.00 / 3) (#34)
by MO Blue on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:26:08 PM EST

for maintaining a blog where debate triumphs over attacks. People here can disagree without being totally disagreeable.

: Jeralyn (5.00 / 4) (#35)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:28:15 PM EST

has taught me that the power of the argument, even of the screed, need not be sacrificed in order to provide a certain level of respect and civility.
I am not perfect on this but I am working on it.

Parent

Civility & intelligence valued from the Right (5.00 / 2) (#36)
by Beldar on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:28:58 PM EST

Props from this right-of-center blogger. TalkLeft continues to be my favorite left-of-center blog.

I agree (5.00 / 1) (#49)
by ajain on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:33:34 PM EST

Talk Left and The Left Coaster, my two favourite blogs. Some excellent analysis this election cycle.

Kudos to BTD and Jeralyn (5.00 / 3) (#51)
by lilburro on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:34:44 PM EST

esp. for not drowning in inflated self importance. You would think upon first glance that many known names in lefty blogging are all Ph.Ds at the Sorbonne when they're not lecturing at Cambridge and missing Summers at Harvard.

Plus, BTD still believes in the Fighting Dem. One of the few left that do. I am curious if your attitude toward the media is just one of political expediency for this election, and if you have any hopes for a different relationship between the media, the issues, and the pols in upcoming elections. If Dem values were seen as being as normative as Repub values, I suppose everything would be different.

academia (5.00 / 1) (#96)
by Jeralyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:08:18 PM EST

was never my strong suit. I still tend to think in rock and roll lyrics.

Parent

No (none / 0) (#56)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:39:07 PM EST

I have despised the Media forever.

And my blogging has always reflected this.

Parent

I admit to not having read (none / 0) (#75)
by lilburro on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:50:48 PM EST

your blogging before this year.

You despise the Media. Does Obama? Does that matter? His campaign is dealing with them relatively smartly (until this whole Wright flap). But it's obvious based on his Move-on vote and brief cameo in online world that the online Democratic community is not of great interest to him. And I'm skeptical that his 'so far, so good' media relationship leaves him in a place to put forth a progressive (forward-thinking) agenda. He is fine with having the media denigrate his opponent. Will he allow them to denigrate other liberals during his Presidency, or allow them to play fake liberal during his Presidency? Do I have to live to see Jim Cooper sainted?

Parent

Why would Obama despise the Media? (5.00 / 1) (#86)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:01:55 PM EST

He is their Darling.

Parent

Because they love to hate Dems? (none / 0) (#99)
by lilburro on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:12:28 PM EST

And eventually people will think of him as a Dem? Because he should know better?

It would be wise of him, IMO, to realize that running against Hillary has been a very fortunate occurence for him, and that the media in all likelihood will not help him make any changes. There won't always be a Hillary around to make him look amazing.

Parent

He will if he gets the nomination (none / 0) (#108)
by litigatormom on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:28:21 PM EST

Because after he does, the MSM will revert to their original man-crush on John McSame. McSame chats with them regularly at the back of the campaign bus, he invites them to barbecues at his Arizona ranch, he invites them to fancy dinners in NYC...and they fawn all over him. Straight talker. Maverick. Moderate. MODERATE!!!

It would take mind-altering drugs, and not a few dinners and some campaign chit-chat, to make me think that John "Hundred Year's War" McSame is a moderate.

Parent

: I find his tolerance (5.00 / 1) (#112)
by lilburro on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:51:08 PM EST

for the media's treatment of Hillary to be disturbing. Maybe he is just being a pol. That combined with his 'tsk tsk' approach to them when it comes to how they judge him, I do not like.

Parent

The Zen of Blogs (5.00 / 1) (#83)
by Marvin42 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:58:22 PM EST

Seriously, it is so nice to read good diaries, (mostly) thoughtful posts (agree or disagree). It almost makes me believe in the ideals of vigorous but civil debate and thought provoking communities.

Thanks to all, specially to the Jeralyn and BTD.

Maybe just maybe (5.00 / 3) (#89)
by Stellaaa on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:03:19 PM EST

When blogs get too big, commenting becomes ridiculous. I think TL works because you can manage the comments, quality control. So there is a symbiotic relationship between the post and the comments. On the over populated sites, comments become just noise.

Glad to have found this calm eye in the hurricane (5.00 / 2) (#95)
by ruffian on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:07:47 PM EST

I learn something from just about every post and comment I read, and my blood pressure stays near normal even when I disagree. This is how it ought to be.

I don't know if Jeralyn is still in Denver, but I remember her fondly from the OJ days and commenting about all things legal on local news stations.

I had to leave Denver to take a job here in Florida - that's OK, I never liked my votes being counted anyway.

Stay cool everyone. I think we'll all be fine with the end of this chapter.

wow (5.00 / 4) (#97)
by Jeralyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:09:56 PM EST

I'm really flattered by all your kind comments. Thanks to all of you.

It isn't just (5.00 / 2) (#123)
by Lena on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:17:14 PM EST

the posts from BTD and Jeralyn that are so thought provoking and sometimes downright fun, it's also the caliber of people who come here to comment.

(I'm an ex-Kos commenter too. It's so good to be gone, and I have to admit, I don't think I'm ever going back!)

I like it here too (none / 0) (#10)
by corn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:16:27 PM EST

but the data proves nothing like this:

This data proves that Talk Left has focused on substance and substantive critique.

The data probably correlates to traffic more than anything.

Why would it do that? (none / 0) (#13)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:19:02 PM EST

It seems to me that even if you adjust for total commentary, it is more of a function of what is being written about.

Here at TL, we are very strict about on topic commenting. IT is an important part of how we maintain the civility of the site.

Parent

I'm guessing (none / 0) (#25)
by corn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:24:13 PM EST

that the numbers include the words appearing in comments too, no?

Whether a site is moderated, on topic or whatever, if you have 100x users commenting on a given topic, the chances of that word appearing are roughly 100x greater.

Parent

I doubt it (none / 0) (#33)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:25:41 PM EST

The number for Daily Kos on ANY issue would be too small. The number of comments there per day are staggering.

Parent

Just considering the number of posters then. (none / 0) (#63)
by corn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:42:23 PM EST

Most days only two here. How many on the bigger sites?

Btw, I just tried some of those searches (I did a simple site search on the words) and found results to vary from openleft's somewhat considerably. Sometimes up, sometimes down.

Parent

I am prolific (none / 0) (#68)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:44:17 PM EST

and so is Jeralyn. We probably post as often as the many FP poster at Daily Kos and more than at the other blogs listed other than HuffPo who has thousands.

Parent

I'm sorry (none / 0) (#78)
by corn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:53:42 PM EST

was I just meant to compliment in this thread?

Regarding the comments vs posts, my search of Kos on 'Rezko' brought back 461 (openleft had 581 - this was closer than most I tried) pages from the past 6 months. I spot checked and that did include pages where the word did not appear in the main post, but did appear in comments.

Parent

: Sounds likeTremayne's numbers (none / 0) (#92)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:04:01 PM EST

need to be checked.
I guarantee you there have not been 100 posts on Rezko here.

Parent

Obsession? (none / 0) (#14)
by Stellaaa on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:19:16 PM EST

You mean my Rezko obsession is not significant? Drats...cannot even do a good obsession.

Great job Jeralyn and BTD. Keeping us and the blogo world sane.

: Well (none / 0) (#16)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:20:08 PM EST

imo of course.

Parent
: Courage, Stellaaa, courage. (none / 0) (#117)
by oculus on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:04:49 PM EST

Looks to me like Jeralyn, much to her credit, has developed, at a minimum, a keen interest in Rezko/Obama relationship.

Parent

That's why I'm here... (none / 0) (#17)
by Dave B on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:21:18 PM EST

I had been a TU at Daily Kos for years. I had to bail. Went to MyDD for awhile. What a relief to find this place! I actually enjoy the comments, I have been skipping the comments at Kos for about a year.

BTD for Preznit (none / 0) (#21)
by pluege on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:22:16 PM EST

Personally, I am very proud of the work we have done this campaign season...

you should be. For the past 3 months I visit almost only here for politics, dropping dkos, Open Left, TPM, and for the most part MyDD (I'll still read Obama supporter Jerome Armstrong - he should be blogging here).

As an Edwards supporter driven more and more to Clinton by the screeching wingnut Obamaites, I find BTD infinitely readable - always, Jeralyn, not so much, but nothing like the other big name screechers at the self-proclaimed, so-called lefty political blogs. (Thank goodness Eschaton, Hullabaloo, Krugman and most of the time FDL didn't go the dkos route like so many others.)

The dem primary has mostly been a disheartening and sickening experience in left blogistan.
.

As an Edwards supporter (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:24:45 PM EST

my insistence on Fighting Dems would be music to your ears.

Read Jeralyn more closely, especially on the issues, you'll come to appreciate her as much as the rest of us do.

Parent

: Jeralyn OK by me (none / 0) (#74)
by pluege on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:48:22 PM EST

I appreciate Jeralyn's writing and effort, I just find the Clinton bias gets in the way. Even at that, I think she is leagues away from your good buddy kos who (not knowing him personally) I lost respect for months ago.

Parent

Crabby? lol, (none / 0) (#30)
by Teresa on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:24:51 PM EST

He's my favorite as*hole in the world.

Just teasing BTD.

I'm rooting for the Vols now (5.00 / 1) (#37)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:29:11 PM EST

in hoops anyway.

Parent

: Hoyas for me (5.00 / 1) (#48)
by geordie on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:33:29 PM EST

It's rare one of my alma maters has a reasonable chance, so I'm watching Georgetown.

Parent
: Don't get your hopes up...we've been known (none / 0) (#43)
by Teresa on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:32:29 PM EST

to bomb. If we beat American, we play a top ten team in Butler who drilled us last year. They slow the ball down on us and you know what happens then.
I rooted for the Gators and even posted on their message board the last two tournaments. I love Billy D.

Parent

I greatly appreciate the calm and thoughtful (none / 0) (#40)
by tandem5 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:30:28 PM EST

tone that is maintained on this site, thank you.

TalkLeft is awesome. (none / 0) (#44)
by vj on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:32:32 PM EST

Talkleft has become (none / 0) (#102)
by standingup on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:18:13 PM EST

an oasis for me during this primary. I appreciate having a place where the topics and discussion are thoughtful as well as respectful.

I think tremayne missed one important point on his comment about Jeralyn and Rezko. If Jeralyn's cautiousness about Wright was worthy of noting, I would think the same should be noted that some of Jeralyn's posts on Rezko are coverage of a trial as is customary on Talkleft.

I think you guys have a good site (none / 0) (#104)
by flyerhawk on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:19:02 PM EST

otherwise I wouldn't blog here. Both BTD and Jeralyn are intelligent and thougtful diarists. And they try very hard to keep this place civil. But Jeralyn is an outright partisan and BTD, well, he is the sort of supporter that most politicians probably regret having. And the poster community here is overwhelmingly and fanatically pro-Clinton.

TL is not objective. Not in the least. At least not when it comes to the primaries.

Not that there is nothing wrong with that. Blogs are supposed to provide commentary and commentary requires at least some bias. I think blogs sometimes get too caught up in pretending to be objective when they aren't and they have no reason to pretend to be.

If you want a pretty objective site go check out the Moderate Voice and in particular Joe Gandelman. I still have no idea if the guy is a Republican or Democrat much less who he is supporting for President.

I do appreciate BTD's constant attempts to remind people of the bigger picture, even if he can be a little acerbic with people that disagree with him.

TalkLeft is absolutely partisan (none / 0) (#106)
by Jeralyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:24:37 PM EST

see our mission statement. Why would you think otherwise? Why blog if not to express your opinion?

TalkLeft is not a neutral site. Our mission is to intelligently and thoroughly examine issues, candidates and legislative initiatives as they pertain to constitutional rights, particularly those of persons accused of crime.
...TalkLeft was a unique voice in the 2000, 2002, 2004 and 2006 elections, as it will be in 2008, concentrating on exposing injustices in the criminal justice system and, in particular, those of the current administration.

Parent

I was referring specifically (none / 0) (#111)
by flyerhawk on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:45:36 PM EST

to the primaries which is an in-house fight among Lefty type people.

I think it is fairly obvious that a blog called TalkLeft has an inherent bias. :)

Parent

I am a Centrist (none / 0) (#124)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:18:11 PM EST

actually.

Parent

Really? (none / 0) (#128)
by flyerhawk on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:37:39 PM EST

A centrist? Which Conservative positions do you hold? Not challenging you, just curious.

Parent

Free trade (none / 0) (#131)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:47:48 PM EST

I am an internationalist who believes that American intervention in the world can be good.

Just two. But I also believe that the Democratic Party is a Centrist party in general.

I believe there is no real left in the United States.

I think that is largely a good thing.

Parent

: Well I oppose (none / 0) (#141)
by Jeralyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 11:46:07 PM EST

gun control laws, hate crime laws and the victims' rights amendment. So my politics aren't strictly "liberal" either... but they all are criminal defense oriented.

Parent

Tremayne should have counted 'revote' or 'Florida' (none / 0) (#113)
by ruffian on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:52:33 PM EST

also in his experiment. But I guess there is no one word that would track that, so it would be hard. It seemed to me that the discourse in what I thought of as the more thoughtful blogs like TPM really started to go nutty when Clinton said right before the Florida primary that she was asking for all of the delegates to be seated. I had already stopped reading the Kos comment sections, but still read the TPM comments, commenting myself only occasionally, and that event really seemed to bring out the nastiness in people.

Anyway, I think the eventual post-mortems of the battle of Left Blogistan will find that to be a big event.

Yeah that was kinda my point too. (none / 0) (#118)
by corn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:06:16 PM EST

And I also find the backpatting/suck-uping annoying. I frequent this site, but there's plenty to complain about. Rather than starting threads with self-congratulations you might consider seeking constructive criticism.

I can't speak for Jeralyn (5.00 / 1) (#122)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:17:04 PM EST

But I will do without the "constructive" criticism.

Wait for a Jeralyn thread for that.

Parent

I expected nothing different. (none / 0) (#125)
by corn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:23:26 PM EST

I can definitely compliment the site for its consistency.

Parent

And yet (none / 0) (#127)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:34:58 PM EST

you keep coming back to it in my threads. Let me put it bluntly, cut it out.

Keep it in Jeralyn's threads please. She runs the place anyway.

Parent

umm (none / 0) (#130)
by corn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:47:28 PM EST

I'm not sure what I'm doing that violates the policies here. I'm not attacking or commenting off topic (except this one).

Parent

Critiquing the blog (none / 0) (#132)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:49:39 PM EST

in the form of general "constructive criticism" is not allowed in my threads.

I have said this forever. I have said it to YOU.

Jeralyn may not mind it in her threads.

I do not want it in mine.

If you want to send me an e-mail, you are more than welcome to do so. Do not do it in comments.

Parent

This is silly. (none / 0) (#136)
by corn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 11:14:25 PM EST

I wasn't trying to provoke you or really even make a critique of the site. It seems fair game to disagree with the general theme of a post, which in this case is about the site. I took issue with the meaning of the numbers, and agreed with another commenter about all the back-patting. I followed your lead after that.

Parent

You'll excuse me (none / 0) (#139)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 11:33:19 PM EST

for misreading your offer of "constructive criticism" to be an offer of constrictive criticism.

If that was silly of me, please forgive me.

Parent

: True (none / 0) (#143)
by corn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 11:59:25 PM EST

I proposed inviting criticism over self-congratulating and I suppose that is itself criticism. I feel all dirty now.

Parent

Actually (none / 0) (#121)
by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:15:31 PM EST

In terms of FP postings, we do.

: we do 15 or more front page posts a day (none / 0) (#142)
by Jeralyn on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 11:48:12 PM EST

that's a lot for any blog.

Parent

I need News and can't (none / 0) (#126)
by Dancing Bear on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:31:23 PM EST

get any real news from the major outlets. I have been coming here because I need to know what is really happening. I have never heard either of you get tingley legs over either candidate.

I get two sides to every story and gentle "devil's advocates" weigh in from each side.

I find it refreshing that you both have candidates but cry foul when foul needs crying. No matter who is being foul.

The issues can be discussed like a cup of coffee conversation rather than a cage match. The topics move around enough that it isn't simply the Hillary / Barack hour. Other topics come into play the way they should on the MSM but seldom if ever do.

Real news. Real opinion. Really needed.

We thank you both for that.

I mention you at other sites and generally get "I agree" responses. Really radical sites that hold moderation in contempt. Then I come over here and see the person that was just at Screamfest 2008 a few keystrokes away. That's all about you guys. Even the blogs that I have liked for so many years have turned skeevy lately.

It's heated out there. Sometimes way too much. A little dialogue goes a long, long way.

The smaller blogs are fine with one sided views but in order to quell chaos the larger sites need to follow your lead. Thanks for everything you guys do. I think when it comes time to actually vote I can pull the curtain shut and not stick a gun in my mouth.

oh really? (none / 0) (#148)
by dc2008 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:50:03 AM EST

I think that TalkLeft certainly deserves credit for the manner in which it's dealt with the Rezko case, and perhaps the Wright controversy. But "never gratuitously attacked the Obama campaign"? TalkLeft has been willing to seize on any minute and probably insignificant turn of phrase to find reasons to attack Obama on an almost constant basis. Good for TalkLeft on your dispassionate approach to Rezko, to be sure, but yes you have gratuitously attacked the Obama campaign (admittedly on less important issues), practically all of the time.

: there are no "gratuitous" attacks (none / 0) (#149)
by Jeralyn on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:12:20 PM EST

on Obama. There is disagreement with him and criticism of his positions on issues and how he is framing his campaign. All are sourced with links. "Gratuitous" and "attack" does not apply.
This is an opinion site and he is not my preferred candidate. But I will vote for him if nominated as I prefer a Democrat to McCain.
Your comment comes close to an insult, as did the one above it by Deconstructionist which was deleted.

Parent

so my comment was censored (none / 0) (#150)
by Deconstructionist on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 12:42:15 PM EST

because I stated basically that people should be willing to address challenges to their biases rather than censor them?

Telling.

Best blog around if I want the facts (none / 0) (#151)
by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:35:14 PM EST

and I want to know how things are playing out and I want civil discussion.

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