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Monday Morning Open Thread

Busy day today. On your own for the World Cup, as you probably already figured out.

Open Thread.

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    not sure what to make of this (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:26:39 AM EST
    Alvin "Piñata" Greene

    the media seems to be having lots of fun demeaning him.  starting to think the only outcome here I would like is if he pulls off an upset win and goes to the senate.


    more (none / 0) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:14:56 AM EST
    South Carolina Pol Questions Dem Senate Candidate's 'Mental Status'

    "About two questions into a conversation with him, it would become apparent that he is not probably fit to answer the questions befitting a Senate candidate," said Rutherford, a Democrat. "If he was put into this, then it is a joke that is funny to all the rest of us, but he doesn't get it -- because I don't know that his mental status is such that he can get it."

    On Friday South Carolina authorities launched a formal investigation into Greene's unlikely win. The campaign of his vanquished opponent, Vic Rawl, said it too is looking into reports across the state from voters and poll workers who "experienced problems with voting for whom they intended."



    Parent
    If he should beat Dement (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:22:27 AM EST
    he might need a work release to serve in the Senate.

    And he won by 30,000 votes??????

    Parent

    persobnally (none / 0) (#13)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:25:14 AM EST
    I would prefer a flasher to DeMint

    Parent
    I understand (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:33:09 AM EST
    Yeah (none / 0) (#40)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 12:45:45 PM EST
    He showed some porn to a college student and now faces felony charges. Only in america.

    Parent
    I would love it (none / 0) (#52)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:18:38 PM EST
    if he pulled a Forest Gumpp and won.

    Parent
    Mixed feelings (none / 0) (#89)
    by christinep on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:38:07 PM EST
    The Forest Gump notion has a lot of appeal. Yet, given the reported circumstances, one has to wonder from whence the $10K registration fee. Usually, when Congressman Clyburn talks, there is fire with the smoke. (If it turns out that a few Republicans orchestrated the matter--perhaps to take the spotlight off of their own gubernatorial issues and to push up the white vote in the general--they should get an Honorable Mention in the Dirty Tricks category. The maneuver would at least rival the original Tricky Dicky.)

    Parent
    sure (none / 0) (#92)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:40:54 PM EST
    I still think the best revenge for the rat fu*king would be for him to win.

    Parent
    SC GOP Dirty Tricks (none / 0) (#105)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:54:02 PM EST
    A Democratic primary challenger in South Carolina who has been accused of being a "plant" hired for his Congressional campaign a GOP consultant who as recently as late last year was the campaign manager for Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC), according to campaign finance reports.

    Businessman Gregory Brown says he challenged Rep. James Clyburn, the highest-ranking African American in Congress, in the Democratic primary on Tuesday because he's worried about the state's poverty rates and failing schools. Clyburn (D-SC) charged this week that Brown is such a political novice that he must be a "plant."

    Brown told TPM in an interview he was a legitimate candidate being targeted because he challenged a powerful incumbent. But his Federal Election Commission filings show his largest campaign payment was to a firm run by a GOP political consultant who is best known as Wilson's former campaign manager and who currently works for other South Carolina Republicans.

    TPM

    Parent

    More (none / 0) (#102)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:51:01 PM EST
    An expert in obscenity law tells TPMmuckraker that the statute being used to prosecute South Carolina Democratic Senate candidate Alvin Greene for allegedly showing a college student porn is on the books in every state but is almost never enforced....

    ... Greene allegedly showed her pornographic images on a computer (of "woman-on-man porn, pretty much sex I guess") at a university computer lab, and then remarked, "Let's go to your room now."

    But according to Chris Hansen, senior national staff counsel at the ACLU, prosecutions involving the obscenity law that Greene is being charged under are exceedingly rare.

    TPM

    Parent

    I watched Paths of Glory last night. (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by observed on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 12:00:22 PM EST
    I found it more of an anti-WWI movie than a general anti-war statements, but wow, what a movie. Kirk Douglas's final decision (about a promotion) is the pivotal scene in the movie, IMO. I didn't quite understand it, as I watched, because I thought someone who cared about his men would want a larger command, to treat his men better than another general, but today I get it.
    It's one of the most powerful movies I can recall seeing. The absolute stupidity of that war, and the cost in lives, hits you like a tank.

    ..Tomarrow I'll be dead (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:19:34 PM EST
    and that cockroach will still be alive..

    (slam)..Now you've got the edge on him.

    Small world. I also watched Paths of Glory last night. The pigheaded, pompous insanity and stupidity of THAT war and of war in general, is what that film always brings home to me.

    And, before the house bound 101st keyboard chimes in with yet another "greatest generation" commercial, let's not forget that the opening salvo of that-our-shining hour was, in effect, fired in 1914, not 1939.

    Parent

    Tomorrow..sheez (none / 0) (#55)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:20:55 PM EST
    did you recognize (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:46:49 PM EST
    Joe Turkle? (one of the men on trial.  I forget his name in the film)
    he shows up in another Kubrick film.  he is the bartender in the Shining.


    Parent
    Now that you say it.. (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:04:12 PM EST
    He played one of the condemned soldiers. And was excellent.

    "Your son's been a naughty boy..a VERY naughty boy.." Lloyd the bartender: the family mediator from hell.

    Kubrick seemed to like to use the same actors, if he got on well with them. One of my favorite character actors, Timothy Carey, was another one he used a few times.

    Parent

    Aubrey Morris (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:53:44 PM EST
    I think the lesson of the end of WWI (none / 0) (#67)
    by observed on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:39:22 PM EST
    are not understood either----give the losers a decent chance to rebuild.
    We have decimated two countries in the last 10 years, and the only reason Iraq has any hope (if it does at all) is the oil wealth.

    Adolphe Menjou's character is fabulous, don't you think?

    Parent

    Yes..the epitome (none / 0) (#73)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:51:05 PM EST
    of the unctuous, amoral scoundrel..And his near amazement, as if he had just stumbled across some very rare species of humanity, in the moment when he realizes that Dax isn't just a Machievellian manipulator and actually cares about his men..

     

    Parent

    Yeah, the WWI generation (none / 0) (#74)
    by brodie on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:51:39 PM EST
    utterly failed to "win the peace" by trying to punish the losing side for its aggression.

    We sort of did better after WWII, only perhaps we went a little too soft on too many higher-up Nazis, both those convicted but released too early (quite a few, it turns out), and those we brought over to help with setting up the CIA and military-science-space programs.   I think overall we handled the situation with Japan better than with Germany.

    Good movie though.  Nearly as much a Kirk Douglas movie as Kubrick, though I think they tussled at times and Kubrick had the final say.

    Parent

    Supposedly (none / 0) (#77)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:11:15 PM EST
    they had a big falling out after Spartacus, which was a film that apparently drove a few of the participants right to the edge..

    Tony Curtis famously said at some point halfway through production: "who do you have to f*ck to get OUT of this movie?"

    Parent

    I was reading (none / 0) (#90)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:39:21 PM EST
    some of this recently.  there are funny stories about the "clams vs oysters" scene

    it may have been Kubrick but it was crap.

    you want Spartacus.  get starz.
    the new season starts soon.


    Parent

    Well, apparently, (none / 0) (#91)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:39:48 PM EST
    Afghanistan has potential mineral wealth- it has nearly $1 trillion in minerals.  (The media are treating this as if it's a completely "new" revelation, BTW, but the Chinese have had a copper-mining lease for awhile, at any rate.)

    Parent
    not (none / 0) (#93)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:42:11 PM EST
    copper (none / 0) (#99)
    by CST on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:45:55 PM EST
    is just the tip of the iceberg.

    It seems like it's "new" to the media.  And while there was some sense that there might be minerals, I don't think the extent or variety of it was publicly known until recently.  The U.S. gov't has known for some time, and there were certainly hints.

    But the U.S. geologists are the ones who found all the lithium.  And that will probably be the biggest game changer here.

    Parent

    according to the link above (none / 0) (#101)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:49:35 PM EST
    its been known since at lease 2007

    Parent
    Yes, it has, Cap (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 03:06:26 PM EST
    The Chinese already have a copper lease (as I noted), and other reserves have been known, as your link pointed out.  I find the timing of this "revelation" rather interesting, and I too, am  skeptical, like the author of your linked article.  And nobody has been talking about the proposed Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline for years (of course, the completion of such a pipeline presupposes some kind of peace in Afghanistan).  

    Parent
    Only Dick Cheney (none / 0) (#115)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 03:22:55 PM EST
    believes you can steal a country's natural wealth of resources and you don't need no stinkin peace.  The rest of us aren't that stupid.  The Pentagon is the least stupid on that account.  There isn't anything to me that is suspicious.  We confirmed what Russia had documented and probably hoped to steal from Afghanistan.  The reality we face is that this wealth can either bring Afghanistan into the first world, or it can further empower and enable Islamic extremism and terrorism if the ability to extract any of it could ever come into being.  I think that reality is decades away for Afghanistan though.  Due to our current culture of corporate worship though, this could be another one of those times when the powerful rich could decide that the safety of the serfs and the world isn't that important and they could deliberating work to get the Taliban control back so that they could have some "predictable" Afghanistan environment that could enable them to make themselves even richer.  Then we could have blood diamonds and blood lithium.

    Parent
    I agree, MT (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 04:11:38 PM EST
    And I don't trust our "corporate worship" to come up with any kind of reasonable solution that would be best for the people of Afghanistan, as well as our own country's security.  For way too long, we have fought too many wars (not all wars, but too many) that have more to do with the interests of the corporatocracy than with the security of our country.  In 1933, Marine Major General Smedley Butler gave a talk in which he said:
    I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

    (Read the rest of his speech here.)      
    Our problem is to make the distinction between what is necessary for our country's safety and security, and what is mainly for the benefit of the corporations.  And it is all made much, much more complicated by the fact that, sometimes, the two goals are intertwined, and sometimes, the two goals are actually antithetical.

    Parent
    yup (none / 0) (#103)
    by CST on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:51:35 PM EST
    by certain people.  Don't think it was public knowledge though.  Sounds like they might not have even told the Afghan government until recently.

    Parent
    Maybe not public knowledge, but it (5.00 / 0) (#129)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 04:49:58 PM EST
    was public information. The US Geological Society presented a preliminary assessment (apparently based on old Soviet maps and aerial surveys using advanced gravity and magnetic measuring equipment) of substantial non-fuel mineral resources, working cooperatively with the Afghanistan Geological Society of the Ministry of Mines in 2007.( It looks like our minerals may have been thoughtlessly placed under Afghan terrain.)  Reading the NYT article, it did appear to me that this was all hot off the grill and Karzai was just told, but that is not the case it seems. What is the case, is General McChrystal's problematic " pilot study" in Marja (pop 60,000) for his grand plan (militarily secure areas, build the infrastructure,  turnover that area over to a competent and honest Afghan government with effective local security forces, Afghans will welcome it, and the Taliban will flee forever) And, then on to Kandahar (pop. 600,000) armed with that successful pattern. Sounds good, what could go wrong? Marja, it seems,  did not quite turn out the way it was supposed to, and the Kandahar offensive is now postponed.-- we will have a "civilian surge", instead.  

    Parent
    oh I agree (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by CST on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 04:55:06 PM EST
    the timing of making this public knowledge is highly suspect.

    HIGHLY suspect.

    I just thought from reading the article that it seemed like they had just told the Afghanis.  Which would also (to me) indicate the timing was decided to influence public opinion in Afghanistan as well.

    Parent

    The Pentagon Business Development Task Force (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 05:03:23 PM EST
    Who knew, but if you think of it, it is all about business...

    I read the article as sort of tongue in cheek...

    This seems to be the jist of it imo:

    American and Afghan officials agreed to discuss the mineral discoveries at a difficult moment in the war in Afghanistan. The American-led offensive in Marja in southern Afghanistan has achieved only limited gains. Meanwhile, charges of corruption and favoritism continue to plague the Karzai government, and Mr. Karzai seems increasingly embittered toward the White House.

    So the Obama administration is hungry for some positive news to come out of Afghanistan. Yet the American officials also recognize that the mineral discoveries will almost certainly have a double-edged impact.

    Instead of bringing peace, the newfound mineral wealth could lead the Taliban to battle even more fiercely to regain control of the country....

    At the same time, American officials fear resource-hungry China will try to dominate the development of Afghanistan's mineral wealth, which could upset the United States, given its heavy investment in the region. After winning the bid for its Aynak copper mine in Logar Province, China clearly wants more, American officials said.

    one, two, three, what are we fighting four...

    Parent

    Make that Naval Aviation (none / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:09:54 PM EST
    and you are right. WWI's settlement laid the seeds of WWII and were hatched by the French and the English not taking preemptive action against Germany.

    So "peace in our time" cost 10-12 million deaths...

    We can't stand too much more of that.

    Parent

    "preemptive action" (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:16:19 PM EST
    why dont we just take preemptive action against humanity at large, to insure that there are no more wars ever?

    Parent
    It's always possible for a certain type of (none / 0) (#78)
    by observed on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:12:03 PM EST
    person to say that more war, more hardship, more death is always the answer.
    Those are the people who pushed for the harshest terms on Germany after WWI.


    Parent
    Interesting commentary recently (none / 0) (#79)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:14:42 PM EST
    re deficit problems in Europe.  I think this was on BBC.  Commentator sd. Germany may cut its military in half, but, of course, much harder for U.S. to do so.  I thought--why is that?

    Parent
    try (none / 0) (#143)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 01:29:32 AM EST
    50-60 million deaths; Russia lost 25 million  (military & civilian) alone.

    Parent
    THE EARLY DAZE, part 11 (5.00 / 0) (#36)
    by Dadler on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 12:05:38 PM EST
    Watching Germany (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by CST on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 12:12:31 PM EST
    demolish Australia made me really happy we didn't loose to England.

    Hopefully we can get enough goals against Slovenia and Algeria so if we advance we don't have to play them in the next round.

    It's been interesting reading all of the commentary (here and elsewhere) about the world cup.  I feel like for the first time Americans are getting really into it.  It's not just the usual soccer fans.  Or in the words of this guy:

    "What? Is this some kind of parallel universe? I have woken up in a country that gives a damn about the World Cup and, more than that, is celebrating a draw? Am I going to go outside and see the road signs in meters?

    ...

    Today, America, you have become a true soccer nation. Because today, like the rest of the world, you have overreacted to a single game of soccer. You have, magically, without even a penalty shootout, turned a tie into a win."

    Also, the most interesting column so far (for me) came from a football (American) sports writer.

    For whatever reason, soccer (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 12:52:07 PM EST
    has been relatively active here in St. Louis for as long as I can remember. IIRC primarily in Catholic schools and semi pro leagues way back when.  Then migrated into the equivalent of little league and public schools programs. Both of my grandsons have played soccer since they were wee lads.

    Parent
    Coverage has caught up to fan interest IMO (none / 0) (#132)
    by Ellie on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 05:02:01 PM EST
    Domestic color and PbP announcers used to suck the oxygen out of games by weaving in personal gripes about having to cover Futbol at all.

    Granted, not every sports dept had the budget to go outside their usual staff, but who needs to listen to two hours of bozos editorializing about there not being enough scoring and WTF is the point of playing to a draw (etc. etc.)?

    Same thing used to happen with hockey.

    You still get your invariable haters but at least now fans of the game don't have to tune out the static, you know, DURING the Beautiful Game.

    Parent

    not just caught up to (none / 0) (#134)
    by CST on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 05:07:01 PM EST
    but is influencing it as well I think.

    Talking to a co-worker today about soccer - who is not usually a fan - he mentioned that ESPN has really been hyping the games which has then influenced the way he's been following it.  And he didn't even know the World Cup was here in 1994.

    Before the games started I thought their commercials were really solid.

    Parent

    Just the last decade, coverage has transformed (none / 0) (#138)
    by Ellie on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 05:38:29 PM EST
    I used to opt for the Latin/o feeds just to bypass any complaining blather about Armpit Ball.

    A lot of the ex-gripers probably also have kids who grew up playing soccer and got to learn it together.

    I think the "Soccer Mom" rising to prominence as a demographic has also been influential, and the high number of girls and women who have played.

    Why is the World Cup such a big deal? By David Henry Sterry (A Yahoo! News exclusive)

    When I did an event recently at my local bookstore in Montclair, N.J. to discuss my new book about the World Cup, I was shocked by who showed up: A bunch of 'tween girls. They knew all about Lionel Messi, Fernando Torres, and Tim Howard. Amazing.

    For everyone else out there who knows more about Derek Jeter, Tom Brady, and Kobe Bryant than Wayne Rooney, Didier Drogba, and Landon Donovan, I thought I would break the whole thing down -- World Cup wise.

    First of all, why is this such a big deal? Why is ESPN bombarding us night and day with all those slick promos? Why did Nike make a truly epic commercial that's better than most Hollywood movies? Because soccer has truly become a global sport. A sport that now generates massive revenue.

    There's a reason Pele is the one of the most famous sports figure in the world. His sport is so simple anyone can play it. You don't need sticks or bats, masks or pads, helmets or ice. Anyone, anywhere in the world, can play soccer. All you need is a ball. In fact, if you don't have a ball, you can play with a grapefruit. That's how Pele started when he was a kid, and he did okay for himself. [... more ...]



    Parent
    oh jebus (none / 0) (#38)
    by CST on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 12:13:39 PM EST
    *lose

    I swear that was just a typo, I'm not that terrible of a speller.  Close though.

    Parent

    Apologies... (none / 0) (#43)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:08:57 PM EST
    if you guys discussed it over the weekend...but don't try and tell me the Green blunder wasn't some kind of karmic payback for the BP spill.  

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:17:16 PM EST
    Not knowing anything about the sport, save having watched, Wim Wenders' The Goalie s Anxiety at the Penalty Kick , first thought that came into my mind when I read about the goal, was that he had oil on his hands... lol

    Parent
    Throw in the fact... (none / 0) (#56)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:21:38 PM EST
    the keeper's name is Green, and it's hard to argue super-natural forces were not in play.

    Rumor has it "Beat BP!" chants could be heard all over the city...if not the country.

    Parent

    Stranger Than Fiction (none / 0) (#64)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:37:31 PM EST
    In fact if this were a movie, it would give away the plot. No one would name the goalie Green in an environmental disaster flick..

    I think you are right about fate..

    Parent

    Ummm (none / 0) (#106)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:54:12 PM EST
    BP? No. Supernatural intervention? Maybe. Check into the background of Clint Dempsey who scored the goal and the letter he left at the grave of his sister. Maybe there's was a third hand steering the ball away from England's goalie.

    Parent
    Karma? (none / 0) (#118)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 03:36:07 PM EST
    I thought you were an atheist :)

    Parent
    Heard an announcer use 'Green' as a verb ... !! (none / 0) (#125)
    by Ellie on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 04:19:26 PM EST
    ... during play-by-play, eg, "ohhhh keeper almost Green'd that one!" Yikes, what ignominy that would be if it catches on.

    Lots of talk about the dynamics of this new, more "slippery" ball. It has fewer pieces (8) sewn together than the traditional 16-piece one, so it bends differently and there's less stitching for the keeper to grip.

    Parent

    Sherrif Schmoe's latest target... (5.00 / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:44:13 PM EST
    Maricopa County Sizzler locations.

    Talk about easy pickings...hope you're proud of yourselves!

    Yeah, I am. (none / 0) (#85)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:33:58 PM EST
     
    The raids were part of a yearlong investigation into whether the operators of the two Sizzler locations broke a civil law by knowingly hiring illegal immigrants, Maricopa County Sheriff's Office Lt. Brian Lee said in a statement.

    Deputies were looking for 23 suspects wanted for identity theft, Lee said. Authorities believe one of the suspects was deported three times and has been hired back by Sizzler each time he returned.

    I wish the operators could get jail time. And heaven knows the damage to the lives of those subject to identity theft...

    Parent

    Arizona is at it again (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:44:16 PM EST
    Wants to strip "anchor babies" of citizenship

    The author of Arizona's controversial new immigration law is considering a new proposal that would block the children of illegal immigrants from becoming citizens if they were born in the United States.

    Critics of the bill that Republican state Sen. Russell Pearce is weighing say it would fly in the face of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, which grants citizenship to anyone born in the country.

    Pearce has been hinting for months that he may introduce legislation targeting the so-called "anchor babies," but had not detailed his plan until an interview last week with Time magazine.

    "This is an orchestrated effort by them to come here and have children to gain access to the great welfare state we've created," Pearce said of Hispanic immigrants.

    Pearce contended that the bill would not violate the 14th Amendment, saying only that "we would write it right."

    I'm speechless - if "we write it right"???

    "we write it right (none / 0) (#98)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:45:49 PM EST
    well there is the whole constitution thing.

    but good luck with that.

    Parent

    Bah! (none / 0) (#108)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:59:50 PM EST
    Trivia, my good man.  Just a minor detail.

    Parent
    Maybe Arizona is planning to secede (none / 0) (#120)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 03:53:57 PM EST
    from the Union, at which point, they can draft their own constitution and see how all of that works out.

    I think the pertinent part of Section 1 of the 14th amendment is pretty clear:

    Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

    So, if Arizona ceased to be a State...

    Parent

    can we build a fence around them? (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Jen M on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 04:52:18 PM EST
    Of course secession never stops, we would have to let various counties back in. They could be allowed back in as part of other states.

    Parent
    And the 1898 Wong case (none / 0) (#126)
    by MKS on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 04:21:14 PM EST
    decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.

    Parent
    Nader Speaks (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 03:54:24 PM EST
    Squatting in Style... (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:31:31 AM EST
    in Seattle...I love it!  It's not like anyone is gonna buy the thing in this market...and why leave a McMansion to rot?

    Happening a lot in FL (none / 0) (#7)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:01:00 AM EST
    I think the trick is to be inconspicuous. These folks raised too many red flags with the neighbors. but maybe they don't care if they get a few months free rent.

    One lady locally tried it with 6 or more kids. It did not go well. Neighbors called the cops and real estate people and had her out of there within a day.

    My next door neighbor is a renter and excellent tenant. Keeps the place immaculate. But the owner of the house is getting foreclosed, and my neighbor has to leave. I hope he just stays and squats in the house - the neighborhood would be grateful, rather than seeing another house go empty and unattended.  

    Parent

    I've had my eye on... (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:05:40 AM EST
    some choice long-time vacancies in my ghetto 'burb...but I've got a good thing going with my sweet landlady...if she decided to sell I'd be hard-pressed not to go for it.  There is no excuse to be homeless in this market...take your pick!

    Parent
    You might want to read the link (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:28:42 AM EST
    looks like a bunch of thieves, not homeless people.

    Parent
    I read it... (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:00:51 AM EST
    some kinda quasi-religous group of weirdos, or con-artists...I'm still down with the squat...better them than the bank!

    Parent
    Read it again (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:31:24 AM EST
    they are trying to find someway to take property away from the rightful owner... in this case the bank's shareholders who are real people.

    Parent
    Can't speak for this property (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:42:30 PM EST
    Maybe the bank and their shareholders were taking good care of the property. In my neighborhood, the banks and their shareholders owe us thousands of dollars in association dues, and are letting the homes deteriorate and the weeds grow, thus affecting all of our homes. If squatters steal the houses and mow the lawns every week, I will be happy.

    This is not a ritzy neighborhood - dues are only $435 a year. The banks could make it right with us for a very small outlay of funds for dues and someone to  mow the lawns, but they won't. They deserve what they get.

    Parent

    Do any the banks shareholders... (none / 0) (#28)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:38:07 AM EST
    need a place to live?  Then I'd be open to them staking a more rightful claim...if not, f*ck the bank and their shareholders....these people are making use of a long vacant property.  

    Parent
    Gather Your Armies (none / 0) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:40:57 AM EST
    Vuvuzela controversy (none / 0) (#4)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:50:50 AM EST
    My contribution  to the World Cup discussion is keeping you up to date on the controversy about the vuvuzelas, aka those annoying horns. I don't know much about soccer, but am a connoisseur of annoying fan behavior. Plus, I just like saying vuvuzela.

    South Africa now says they will not ban them, since they are an expression of local culture. I think it will come down to a battle between local culture and TV commentators who want to be heard, and won't be if everyone is muting the TV. I think the players should have the final say.

    I've never sat near a vuvuzela in a stadium, but are they any more annoying than the inflatable 'clappers' prominent at American college football games in the last few years? I have popped more than one of those atrocities with my earring. But I would not want to start a fight in a Soccer stadium.

    I was watching the US game... (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:57:47 AM EST
    with the fam and moms thought the horns were African Killer Bees....she was worried for our boys safety:)

    I'd much rather hear the fans singing and screaming myself...but when in South Africa.  And a ban now wouldn't exactly be fair to the teams who had to play with the buzzing....I say deal with it.

    Parent

    Exact words of a woman in Soweto (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:35:48 AM EST
    (BBC interview):  Deal with it.  (Chuckle.)

    Parent
    is my friend...

    Parent
    Odd, but (none / 0) (#35)
    by Democratic Cat on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 12:00:35 PM EST
    I don't find them to be annoying. I haven't watched a huge number of games so far, so my attitude may change, but so far I find the sound to be eerily soothing.

    If the commentators can't be heard, put them in a studio and turn down the vuvuzelas and turn up the talking heads.

    And you are right, it's fun to say...vuvuzela.

    Parent

    Vuvuzela controversy sets off conspiracy theories (none / 0) (#42)
    by Ellie on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 12:55:57 PM EST
    Wouldn't it be cool if they could be rigged to create wind-powered energy? The media crews seem to have found a way to soften them for broadcast, although it means being denied much of the field-level chatter coverage.

    Since the WC is as much about culture as Futbol, we've had some intense discussions on the authenticity and original content of lesser known nat'l anthems.

    Operating theories:

    • Some anthem composers from newer nations just altered the tempo of jingles and whatnot to hack a fat check from their fledgling govts. ("C'mon, that was just a variation on the Alka Seltzer Plop Plop Fizz Fizz song!")

    • The non-stop vuvuzela buzz is so loud, the stadium DJs have been sneaking in random tunes just to see if anyone notices. ("Oh puh-leaze ... tell me that wasn't Pictures of Matchstick Men by Status Quo!")


    Parent
    Origins of tune of "The Star-Spangled (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:16:16 PM EST
    Banner":  
    The poem was set to the tune of a popular British drinking song, written by John Stafford Smith for the Anacreontic Society, a men's social club in London. "The Anacreontic Song" (or "To Anacreon in Heaven"), with various lyrics, was already popular in the United States.
     [Wiki excerpt.]

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:22:04 PM EST
    I always thought that there was a relation between war and drinking. Something to ease the pain of killing and being killed.

    Parent
    Ironically, Francis Key's (none / 0) (#66)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:39:00 PM EST
    son was murdered by an American civil war officer; supposedly as the result of his involvement in a love triangle involving the officer's wife.

    Parent
    Crime Of Passion? (none / 0) (#68)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:41:02 PM EST
    Dan Sickles (none / 0) (#100)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:49:33 PM EST
    An interesting character.

    Yes, it was a crime of passion. Happened right near the WH in Lafayette Park, as I recall. He may have been a member of the House at the time. He later joined the Army and fought for the Union in the Civil War, losing his leg at Gettysburg.

    Parent

    First use of temporary insanity defense (none / 0) (#107)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:58:07 PM EST
    In the US. Said he was driven out of his mind by his wife's infidelity (never mind about his infidelities)

    As they carried him off the battlefield at Gettysburg - all the while having no leg - he cooly smoked a cigar.  Of course, his injury was a result of his direct disobeyance of an order - one that almost cost the Union the battle, and possibly the war, but he was so slick, he managed to get himself the Medal of Honor - 34 years later.

    Definitely the epitome of sleazy.  :)

    Parent

    American Scoundrel (none / 0) (#109)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 03:00:20 PM EST
    is the name of the book I read about him. He treated his wife horribly, both before and after the shooting. In looking it up to refresh my memory, he basically smeared his wife to get acquitted of murder.

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#111)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 03:02:30 PM EST
    The public was more outraged after the trial that he publicly forgave his wife and took her back, then the fact that he killed a man in cold blood (his "insanity defense" notwithstanding).

    Parent
    I suppose there's no choice (none / 0) (#65)
    by brodie on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:38:42 PM EST
    but to play the nat'l anthems, but frankly encouraging any sort of nationalist impulse at the WC makes me nervous.  You know, two arch rival countries on the pitch in a heated match, one side loses in controversial manner, and you might have people beating the war drums the next day.  

    Let's hope the US or SKorea do not play NKorea ...

    As for Matchstick Men, thanks a lot for that ear worm, whatever the heck a matchstick man is (get back to me on that one, pls.  Something to do with thin gray aliens?).  Annoying song that combines the worst electric guitar sound ever invented -- that waa-waa stuff -- with one of the most interesting sound effects ever put on vinyl -- though completely wasted here -- the phaser.

    Parent

    The only time I'll defend The Status Quo! (none / 0) (#97)
    by Ellie on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:45:19 PM EST
    Sorry about the ear worm; it does sound like it was played on toy instruments. I've got the song queued up on my "bucket" list of what to drum along to when I buy myself a complete drum kit.

    The guitar does sound like it's whining for a Hammer to spank its backside.

    It was rottenly produced and should have been a heavy metal song (IMO) 3-5 years later so I'm hoping to set things right!

    Parent

    I've been hearing similar (none / 0) (#62)
    by brodie on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:30:36 PM EST
    nonstop plastic horn sounds from soccer crowds at Azteca Stadium in Mexico and in Brazil since I was a youngster.  Nothing new, only a little louder and more nonstop from probably a higher percentage of vuvu-equipped fans in the SA stadiums.

    No complaints here.  My only one is that the games start too early on the west coast of the US, and I haven't gotten around yet to getting one of them fancy machines that can record shows for later viewing.

    Parent

    Wondering why the TV broadcast sound (none / 0) (#63)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:34:35 PM EST
    quality for SF Giants @ Angels in World Series was fine despite the "thunder stick" racket.  But sound quality for World Cup now is so lousy.  What's different?

    Parent
    Japan leading 1-0 at half (none / 0) (#5)
    by abdiel on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:55:33 AM EST
    Cameroon can't get past the 5-man Japanese midfield. Japan's offense is awful but they penetrated once with a beautiful cross and caught the Cameroon defense at a lazy moment.

    Late-game crossbar plus awesome save deny Lions (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Ellie on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 12:36:52 PM EST
    Indomitables got defanged, declawed.

    Japan really earned this one (so it looked from the last 1/3 or so that I caught.) A pretty goal was a nice way for Keisuke Honda to celebrate his birthday, though.

    I'm blowing off the rest of my work sked to join the 60-million headed hydra of a squawking Assistant Coach that my normally life-enjoying paisan become during a WC game. It's like Italy shaped itself into a boot on purpose to kick Coach Lippi's ass.

    Is this squad too old? I've examined every inch and they look good so far.

    Petty sniping from the couch panel: the reason they look like nekkid statuary come to life is because most of them were artists' models during the Renaissance.

    Parent

    Old squad...they are (none / 0) (#113)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 03:06:11 PM EST
    Yet literally able to will their own destiny into being as can be observed in that "catch up" goal.  God I love that about them!  If we could only bottle that stuff, we'd either have world peace or whatever Dick Cheney wanted :)

    Parent
    Azzurri shd limber up 1/2 hr earlier next game (none / 0) (#127)
    by Ellie on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 04:31:24 PM EST
    OR ... pay off BTD to name Paraguay as one of his picks to emerge from the Group round.

    I keed. I keed because I love.

    Parent

    And it's a final... (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:19:10 AM EST
    stromg early showing from the Asian contingent...until N. Korea faces Brazil tomm. at least.

    Parent
    Keystone Jihadists (none / 0) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:12:51 AM EST
    They blow each other up by mistake. They bungle even simple schemes. They get intimate with cows and donkeys. Our terrorist enemies trade on the perception that they're well trained and religiously devout, but in fact, many are fools and perverts who are far less organized and sophisticated than we imagine. Can being more realistic about who our foes actually are help us stop the truly dangerous ones?


    We're fortunate that (none / 0) (#19)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:43:52 AM EST
    so many of them are, indeed, so incompetent.  Although, if your goal is to spread terror and kill a few people, you can be pretty low-tech and still accomplish this.  Recall the "Beltway Snipers" eight years ago.  They managed to kill ten people, and terrorized the region for a few weeks.  Two people, one rifle, a car with a hole in the trunk to shoot from- that's all it took.  

    Parent
    our (none / 0) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:18:17 AM EST
    I did not sign a release (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:32:33 AM EST
    for them to use my photo.

    Parent
    when you get to be our age (none / 0) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:36:48 AM EST
    you are in the public domain jim

    Parent
    And the public aint too happy about that (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:32:51 AM EST
    I think (none / 0) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:45:18 AM EST
    that link stopped working

    an new one

    Parent

    Oil, oil everywhere (none / 0) (#23)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:26:10 AM EST
    Yesterday, Chevron discovered a leaking pipeline that was spewing 50 gallons of crude oil per minute into Red Butte Creek in Salt Lake City, UT. By the time crews capped the leak, more than 21,000 gallons -- between 400-500 barrels -- of oil had spilled out, "coating geese and ducks" and closing the city's largest park.
    ...
    Depending on amounts, the spill could disrupt the food chain for the long term, killing bottom-dwelling invertebrates that feed fish, said Walt Baker, director of the state Division of Water Quality. link


    SCOTUS grants cert. re State of CA's (none / 0) (#27)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:33:05 AM EST
    petition challenging federal court order the state must release 46,000 inmates, over 1/4 of the number of persons in state custody:  LAT

    Almost begun... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:44:47 AM EST
    the domestic drone wars have...FAA under pressure to allow more drones in domestic airspace for law enforcement and other functions.

    Spooky.

    the new (none / 0) (#30)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:48:45 AM EST
    black helicopter.

    Parent
    Wondering if that is what is so prevalent (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:56:22 AM EST
    in my 'burb this a.m.  Close to Marine air base.  Minimum of 2 wars in progress. Got to practice, practice, practice.  But I think the flight pattern must have changed recently.  

    Parent
    Unnerving (none / 0) (#80)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:15:42 PM EST
    I live in "flyover country," and literally the only jets low enough to hear are from the military base about 50 miles north of here.  vvrROAWWW!!mvvvr  From first to last audibility is about 5 seconds, not long enough even to look up and find.

    Yikes.  I hope I am never underneath one of those when it's flying in anger.

    Parent

    Can't wait... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:58:57 AM EST
    for the first one to crash through some poor slob's roof.

    Parent
    Any of you seen a production of Sarah Ruhl's (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:57:51 AM EST
    play "Eurydice"?  Just read Isherwood's review in NYT.  Secon Stage Theatre production a few years ago.  I saw it yesterday and wouldn't say what he did.  Not all that interesting.

    Rand Paul (none / 0) (#44)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:10:30 PM EST
    the gift that keeps on giving.

    and giving and giving and . . . .

    Rand Paul on mountaintop removal

    Q: What about mountaintop removal?

    PAUL: I think whoever owns the property can do with the property as they wish, and if the coal company buys it from a private property owner and they want to do it, fine. The other thing I think is that I think coal gets a bad name, because I think a lot of the land apparently is quite desirable once it's been flattened out. As I came over here from Harlan, you've got quite a few hills. I don't think anybody's going to be missing a hill or two here and there.

    And some people like having the flat land. Some of it apparently has become quite valuable when it's become flattened.



    What a loser :) (none / 0) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:14:19 PM EST
    I think whoever owns the drilling rights should be able to destroy everyone else's beach too :)

    Parent
    i like this (none / 0) (#49)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:16:59 PM EST
    a lot of the land apparently is quite desirable once it's been flattened out

    8-P

    Parent

    If either you or MT had (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:18:01 PM EST
    ever been in Harlan you would understand.

    Parent
    no (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:29:44 PM EST
    I wouldnt
    I am from arkansas, very similar terrain.
    and I like it just the way it is.  Pauls statement is ignorant beyond belief.

    Parent
    If you have money and/or a job (none / 0) (#84)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:30:08 PM EST
    and can see a future where your teeth don't rot out by age 30 and your children graduate from high school...

    Then all the hills are alive with the sound of music....

    Are you a limousine environmentalist?

    Parent

    those things (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:34:33 PM EST
    can happen without strip mining.

    I am a hillbilly environmentalist

    Parent

    No Im a latte drinking (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:37:20 PM EST
    viocodin popping, volvo driving, teabagger disdaining environmentalist,
    fighting limousine conservatives who want to conserve nothing and would outsource the people of Harlan to a dog food factory in Calcutta if it expanded their portfolios..

    Parent
    Jim (none / 0) (#119)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 03:39:44 PM EST
    I just spent a lot of moula for a new AC system that treats every liter of air in this house for my allergies and asthma too.  It's fricken great and this house has never been this healthy or this well cooled!  My utility bills in this horrible heat and humidity went from $500 a month to $220 a month.  There are lots and lots and lots of jobs that we could give to people that would be about saving energy and money out of everyone's pocket monthly too and everyone could still have teeth doing them.

    Parent
    I saw Sec. of Energy Chu on Jon Stewart (5.00 / 3) (#122)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 04:09:32 PM EST
    a few months ago and he quoted an astounding statistic about how much energy we would save by replacing existing roofs with white shingles.

    That would put a few people to work also, I would guess.

    Parent

    one of the reasons (none / 0) (#124)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 04:17:59 PM EST
    I bought my house

    Parent
    MT I just spent the last (none / 0) (#144)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 07:42:33 AM EST
    6 years redoing the palatial retirement compound with energy saving appliances, increased insulation, timer driven thermostats, CFL's, etc.

    The best I have done is a usage decrease large  enough to break even on the 30% price increase...

    Obviously you know something I don't. Please advise model and manufacturer of that air conditioner. I have check book and pen poised...

    In the meantime, consider that the a/c you purchased, assuming it was made in the US, was made by the same people who were making last year's model last year.... That means there was no net increase in jobs.

    The so-called green jobs is a farce. Windmills, solar panels, solar water heaters, etc., have been manufactured for years. Any increase in their volume can only pick up part of the loss in the auto, steel, garment and electronic industries.

    Parent

    Lennox went partial solar (none / 0) (#145)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 11:30:14 AM EST
    their new systems are so efficient.  Full solar is due sometime this year for anyone interested.  Also, can't remember which outfit is working on recycling the air coming off of their system....but we were told someone has specs out now for an actual small wind turbine that will  recycle some of the "wind" the system generates and puts out, and it will push it right back into the system.  We do need a different motherboard for the outdoor unit.  It is working, but off and on it loses communication with the indoor thermostat.  One is on its way, the only real wrinkle we've come up against though thusfar even though the tech behind this system is very new.  We were the third installation done by our local installer.

    Parent
    I've been there (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:28:44 PM EST
    and one look around tells you that some things have value other than as capital-ripe-for-liquidation..

    Parent
    Fair enough Rand... (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:28:40 PM EST
    and when the mountain top blasting so pollutes the local water supply that mud comes out the tap, the mining company has to provide enough Poland Spring to supply all the local townsfolk water needs, free of charge of course.

    That's how true libertarianism works...freedom and responsibility.  Not the "freedom for me, f*ck you" brand of faux-libertarianism you seem to be selling.

    Parent

    No, Libertarianism (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:21:15 PM EST
    would have the locals move if they don't like mud in their water to someplace that doesn't have mud in the water.

    Parent
    respect to ecology, why is using land to mine coal so much more worser than, say, using land to build the home you live in or using land to build the building you work in, etc?

    Parent
    no worse (none / 0) (#87)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:37:17 PM EST
    and you are right.  but this:

    a lot of the land apparently is quite desirable once it's been flattened out

    is cluelessly idiotic

    Parent

    Maybe he's just going by what wiki says: (none / 0) (#128)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 04:34:14 PM EST
    Mountaintop removal replaces previously steep forested topography with government approved post mining reclamation land uses.

    Economic development attempts on reclaimed mine sites include prisons such the Big Sandy Federal Penitentiary in Martin County, Kentucky, small town airports, golf courses such as Twisted Gun in Mingo County, West Virginia and Stonecrest Golf Course in Floyd County, Kentucky, as well as industrial scrubber sludge disposal sites, solid waste landfills, trailer parks, explosive manufacturers, and storage rental lockers.[1]

    Advocates of mountaintop removal point out that once the areas are reclaimed as mandated by law, the technique provides premium flat land suitable for many uses in a region where flat land is at a premium.

    They also maintain that the new growth on reclaimed mountaintop mined areas is better able to support populations of game animals.[2]

    There is, of course, the other side to this issue that's also explained on wiki...

    Parent
    Rand Paul, the new comedian? (none / 0) (#110)
    by christinep on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 03:01:44 PM EST
    His comments heretofore: Ranging from usual Libertarian BS to crazy funny. His "environmental" comments here: Priceless...for a comedian or political satirist. Yep, can't beat that flat land; sort of like the old comment from ? "When you've seen one tree, you've seen them all."

    Parent
    honest to god (none / 0) (#112)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 03:04:44 PM EST
    listen.  I was born there.  the idea that they people who live there do not value the natural beauty of the place shows a lack of understanding the locals that borders on criminal.


    Parent
    I understand coal country (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by christinep on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 05:42:18 PM EST
    I'm from the coal region of Pennsylvania. Proudly so. And, yep, I got that environmental side too. Heavens to Betsy! (Actually, mountain top removal==aka the ole' WVa practice--causes more problems than strip mining. Reclamation issues; water pollution from the obvious run-off; RCRA issues, etc. Don't want to be preachy...but, since I've been reading so much here about Gulf matters, I would suggest that it is important to take a look at longstanding mining practices. (It can be done better. Really.)

    Parent
    P.S Lets not get carried away (none / 0) (#140)
    by christinep on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 05:46:30 PM EST
    The fact that someone might disagree hardly warrants using terms like "borders on criminal."  Especially so for someone like myself who fondly carried (and still has near the computer) a piece of antracite.  I love my Polish coal mining heritage.  I don't love that my grandfather died from black lung disease, my uncle was incapacitated by same, and my father had to quit school during high school to work in the mines. Nonetheless, we all loved and love that land...we just also want the land cared for the way it should be. Comprende?

    Parent
    you can disagree (none / 0) (#141)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 05:52:36 PM EST
    without idiotic comments like "some people like the flattened land"

    I should be clearer.  I am not from coal country but from arkansas.  a place with very similar views.  and I have no doubt that the locals in KY love them just as much as we do.

    I did however, as one of my first jobs, work for Peabody Coal Company.  so I know a good deal about that too.

    Parent

    And, I should be more clear as well (none / 0) (#142)
    by christinep on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 07:04:07 PM EST
    The "idiotic" comment to which you refer, I did not make. My sarcasm (and, admittedly, sarcasm is not a favorite approach of mine) was directed toward Rand Paul and his ilk. People living in certain mining areas--towit, the deep antracite region in PA--typically are really caught between the axiomatic "rock and a hard place." In the past, the choice involved working in the mines to put food on the table; they knew the land consequences and coped (such as my dad's lifelong habit of swimming with his eyes closed because he began swimming in ponds with sulfur seepage.) Rand Paul may not comprehend the role of MSHA in cutting the annual number of deaths in mines; he may not appreciate the role of the federal government in "helping" the private coal companies recognize that human beings are riding those tram cars and using those picks and that $$ for their safety are necessary even if the almighty profit level is reduced.

    I do not mean to minimize or denigrate the land that you call home. My message is directed totally at the likes of Rand Paul and his selfish ilk who so often focus only on their own $$ interests.

    Parent

    I got Japan and Cameroon in (none / 0) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:12:08 PM EST
    what a dirty little game :)  Lots of trickery and a few questionable calls too.  I would have gone with Cameroon....and that didn't happen.  Here we go with Italy and Paraguay.  I'm going with Italy even though I've been told Italy has a problem finding middle ground.  They either play excellent or horrible.

    rajnish357 - SPAM (none / 0) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:20:48 PM EST
    Plus my spyware program - Webroot - blocked it as potentially hazardous.

    New iPad Accessory (none / 0) (#71)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 01:44:57 PM EST
    thats (none / 0) (#83)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:29:39 PM EST
    awsum

    Parent
    this is great (none / 0) (#96)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:44:31 PM EST
    Zach Anner Thanks You

    he is thanking you for giving him 2 million votes for his own show after this video audition.

    as a former new yorker (none / 0) (#116)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 03:28:16 PM EST
    this sounds like a great idea to me.

    tourist lanes.


    Pretty Silly (none / 0) (#117)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 03:34:57 PM EST
    I like the tourists, but wouldn't mind segregating the bridge and tunnel crowd... lol

    Parent
    Madison Square Park is also the site of (none / 0) (#135)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 05:21:05 PM EST
    a wonderful exhibit of sculptures on top of surrounding buildings.  Wormley

    Parent
    great (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 05:23:37 PM EST
    Lots Of 911 Calls (none / 0) (#137)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 05:30:16 PM EST
    Man about to jump.

    Parent