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O'Reilly Does Segment on Bloggers Paid by Dean

On Bill O'Reilly now on Fox News. Unbelievable that this non-story has risen to the level of national cable talk shows. (Update, Crooks and Liars has the video up.)

O'Reilly gets it wrong, he says Kos was paid by Dean to blog nice things about Dean. Right wing blogger and radio host Hugh Hewitt is on by himself. He slams Kos and praises right wing bloggers like himself and Power Line and Captain's Quarters and Roger Simon and Instapundit (who I don't put in the same category) and says that none of them are on the take. Newsflash to Mr. Hewitt: Neither is Markos or Jerome.

Fair and balanced? Not tonight.

On the other hand, major Kudos to DNC chair hopeful Simon Rosenberg, who writes today defending Markos and Jerome and says:

Ultimately, however, we cannot lose sight of what is truly at stake. Williams is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the vast power commanded by the corrupt and radicalized Republicans that control our politics, and to some extent, our media. The power the right can bring to bear on any issue because of its investments in communications and intellectual infrastructure needs to be matched, and exceeded.

Now, some on the right are cynically using the work of bloggers who have helped open up the democratic conversation to try to excuse the actions of Armstrong Williams. It's stunning to me, as someone who has worked in TV news as a producer and writer, that Williams can be talked about in morally equivalent terms to Markos Moulitsas, who was transparent about all his business relationships, or Jerome Armstrong, who shut down his web site to prevent any conflict of interest. Williams was paid with taxpayer money to propagandize for a corrupt Republican party leadership, and what happened deserves a full investigation in which the involved parties are held responsible.

Regardless of our policy differences, as a party and a political movement we must build the communications infrastructure to restore our national conversation, because having two strong competitive sides is the only way that we can preserve and strengthen our democracy.

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    Yeah, well who is to blame? Who gave the right wing media this hammer to beat bloggers over the head with? Zephyr Teachout, the internet liaisson for Howard Dean. She said they engaged Kos, so he would write nice things about the Dean campaign. Main Stream Media still hurting from all those times that bloggers made them out to be untrustworthy, now jump on the story to say bloggers are on the take. It's revenge time for them. The fact that right wing media like Fox is spinning it as a Dean pays liberal bloggers is part of the political game. I think bloggers on the right are fools if they go along. This this is hurting all of us bloggers, right wing and left wing. The New Democrat

    Oh I'm shocked, shocked I tell you! Bill Olielly lies again! Oh, dog bites man! What will we tell the children!? You know, at this point, cue Fred Dawes.

    Re: O'Reilly Does Segment on Bloggers Paid by Dean (none / 0) (#3)
    by scarshapedstar on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 06:26:12 PM EST
    You know, for the vast right-wing conspiracy being such a one-trick pony, it's a shame the "liberal media" falls for the same trick EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Remember the swiftliars? Bush abandons his post in wartime, so what does the "liberal media" focus on? John Kerry doing, uh, something... something that Republican paid political operatives don't like! Now THAT'S a pressing issue! Fast forward to today. The government illegally pays people to secretly spread propaganda, and what does the media talk about? Publicly disclosed work for a primary campaign. This is getting kafkaesque.

    Uh, dude, that's why I cued Fred.

    scar writes - "You know, for the vast right-wing conspiracy being such a one-trick pony, it's a shame the "liberal media" falls for the same trick EVERY. SINGLE. TIME." You know, maybe the VRWC is just smarter than you. You complain like crazy about Armstrong Williams taking tax payer money to advocate the adminsitration's position. But you ignore all of the other advocacy groups taking tax payer money. And, as in the case of Williams, none of them were transparent in their use of it. Then you find a Robert Novak in the form of Zephyr Teachout to blab all about who did what, and all of a sudden we get lectures on "disclosure" and "transparency." Me, I don't see why anyone should be given taxpayer money to push an agenda. And if you have a blog, and if you start writing for, consulting for, whatever, disclaimer or no, you are dancing with the devil. So Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, meet Pot. Enjoy the party.

    "O'Reilly gets it wrong, says Kos was paid to blog nice things about Dean." Ah, but that's exactly what Kos was paid to do. The Dean campaign simply chose not to tell Kos that's what the money was for.

    et al - This is the "dancing with the devil" I referred to in the above comment: "On Tuesday Markos Moulitsas Zúniga of the Daily Kos, the most trafficked blog on the web, attacked me personally and erroneously for having written a column in the Union Leader (Manchester, NH) in which I defended New Hampshire's first-in-the-nation primary. "The author is a Republican, and a consultant. He stands to lose lots of cash if NH loses its leading role," he wrote of me in his weblog. Also on Tuesday the former Director of Internet Organizing for Dean for President, Zephyr Teachout, revealed that the selfsame Markos Moulitsas Zúniga (who goes by the handle "Kos") had been a paid shill for the Dean campaign, accepting fees for promoting the campaign of the angry little ex-Governor of Vermont on his blog. Oh yeah, Zúniga also gave "advice" to the campaign. A very interesting revelation for a guy who wrote after the Armstrong Williams pay-for-advocacy scandal broke, "we can assume every conservative pundit is on the White House's payola rolls," and accuses the "so-called" liberal media of being "outright shills for the Bush administration." Sould you care to read it all. Click here.

    Re: O'Reilly Does Segment on Bloggers Paid by Dean (none / 0) (#8)
    by wishful on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 07:36:28 PM EST
    PPJ, Do you have some new definition of "tax payer money"? Or do you have a scoop on "all the other advocacy groups taking tax payer money" with respect to bloggers Kos and MyDD?

    wishful - Don't confuse yourself. The issue is two fold. 1. Journalists and advocacy organizations taking tax payer mobey. That is government funding in case you need help. See Arnstrong Williams and Planned Parenthood. 2. Journalists/bloggers taking money from political/business organizations. See KOS. In either case the results are bad.

    Re: O'Reilly Does Segment on Bloggers Paid by Dean (none / 0) (#10)
    by bad Jim on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:34:44 PM EST
    Fascinating. I'm sure that Williams and the others took every opportunity to make sure their audience knew that they were being paid by the government or funded by an advocacy group, the way Kos prominently noted his ties to the Dean campaign. Yeah, right. I also missed Kos pretending that he was an unbiased journalist.

    How can you equate blogging with broadcasting or publishing? The two are not the same. A blogger need not be a professional journalist. A blogger is free to advocate just like a 527 if he or she so desires. How can you equate a blogger earning consulting fees from a campaign fund with taxpayer money going to a paid tout sitting in a broadcast booth of a news organization? Two very different things here. But be that as it may, all members of the reality based blogging community should provide full disclosure and insist that career journalists working for news organizaitions do the same. There really is no need to scrutinize the freeper blogs and their ties to public financing. It's a gimme.

    Re: O'Reilly Does Segment on Bloggers Paid by Dean (none / 0) (#12)
    by john horse on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:55:09 PM EST
    This is news? Anyone who visited Kos in the last year knew that he was a consultant for Dean. Why? Because he said so on his website. I don't think it is an issue and those right wing pundits, like Bill O'Reilly, didn't think this was an issue until one of their own got caught with his ethical pants down. Can it be that, as Armstrong Williams has suggested, that there was more "journalists" on the take than just him? O'Reilly and Hewitt doth protest too much.

    PPJ...Advocacy groups are just that...and I think they readily acknowledge their public funding. Here's a clue, they have a "non-profit group" status. Which is kind of different than someone posing as an indepedent journalist taking money on the sly from an administation to praise a particular piece of legislation.

    Re: O'Reilly Does Segment on Bloggers Paid by Dean (none / 0) (#14)
    by bad Jim on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:15:55 PM EST
    Someone recently also insinuated that it was somehow improper for Atrios to appear on Air America. Of course he had posted the times he would be on air, and his readers' comments were things like "You talk too fast" or "You say 'um' a lot." Kos and Atrios are political advocates, and it simply is not a conflict for them to engage in political advocacy outside their blog, particularly when they write about those outside activities. Here's a general rule: conservatives resort to moral relativism when even they know their folks are doing something wrong.

    Re: O'Reilly Does Segment on Bloggers Paid by Dean (none / 0) (#15)
    by BigTex on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:29:01 PM EST
    Seems y'all are missin' th' point o' th' issue. While bloggers aren't shy about takin' sides on an issue (IE this is a lefty blog here that will defend a criminal in virtually any circumstance - note I didn't say all) they stayed true t' their own ideals, whatever that was. Blogs are becomin' an alternate source o' information dissemination, which in essence is all that news shows and magazines are. In fact, they are bein' given press credentials, and are tryin' t' position themselves as an alternative media. Good, bad, otherwise; that's fer everyone t' decide on their own, but at th' least th' blogs were biased, but clean, no tint from others tellin' th' bloggers what t' report. Now Kos and some others hire themselves out. Suddenly, he's not clean, he's workin' fer someone, not fer himself. That's th' equivilent o' a reporter or anchor takin' a position in someone's staff. That's th' only noncriminal action that will end a reporter's or anchor's career. So when a blogger does th' same thing, it sends shivers down' th' media's spines because no one is held accountable fer th' grossly unprofessional action. I'm not slammin' Kos, but, as blogs blur th' line o' becomin' a bona fide media source they need t' be aware o' their position. It's one thing t' be biased, another t' be Dean's man (or anyone's man.) If blogs weren't tryin' t' blur th' line then it would be a nonstory, but since blogs are seekin' t' become an alternate media this is a serious act that deserves th' play it's bein' given. Nothin' illegal happened, but th' lapse o' ethics is jaw droppin'.

    Re: O'Reilly Does Segment on Bloggers Paid by Dean (none / 0) (#16)
    by bad Jim on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:06:28 AM EST
    In words of one syllable: Kos is not a news source. We know which side he's on. That's why we read him. He told us he worked for Dean. We thought that was cool. What we saw is what we got. What's wrong with that? He's not like Bush or some of these folks. He did not lie, cheat or steal. He is not tarred or stained. This is just a ploy to cast blame our way, to say "Well, your guys are bad, too,", which is, in this case ... thin stuff.

    I saw it, didn't think he was that fair, but it is O'Reilly way of getting his ideals out.

    BigTex wrote: ...this is a lefty blog here that will defend a criminal in virtually any circumstance - note I didn't say all... No, actually this lefty blog defends, on average, only a tiny amount of the accused out of all cases in the world. Perhaps you confuse a focus on those worth defending with a defense of "virtually" all? Kos and some others hire themselves out. Suddenly (suddenly?), he's not clean, he's workin' fer someone, not fer himself. That's th' equivilent o' a reporter or anchor takin' a position in someone's staff. No, that's the equivalent of a private citizen keeping a public diary saying upfront that they are working for a politician and that they have always been a bit biased towards said politician and warning their readers to take what he has to say with a grain of salt.

    Big Tex: Good post. A texican of many words.

    Re: O'Reilly Does Segment on Bloggers Paid by Dean (none / 0) (#20)
    by Ray Radlein on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 04:30:17 AM EST
    And let's not forget about Jerome Armstrong of MyDD, who was so incredibly in the tank for Dean that he completely stopped blogging altogether while he worked for the Dean campaign. Whooo-eee, that's one powerful lot of propaganda he was spilling there, what with not blogging and all! How could you trust anything that he wasn't saying at the time? Why, he could have easily been not saying all kinds of sneaky things! Of course, given that Joe Trippi asked Jerome to come to work for Dean several months before Zephyr even started working there, I find it just the tiniest bit possible that perhaps Zephyr doesn't understand quite as much about why the Dean campaign hired Jerome and Markos as she thinks she does. Keee-rist. What a bunch of bullcrap. Anyone who peddles this garbage is a fool or a cur.

    Re: O'Reilly Does Segment on Bloggers Paid by Dean (none / 0) (#21)
    by john horse on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:01:15 AM EST
    Tex, re: " That's th' equivilent o' a reporter or anchor takin' a position in someone's staff. That's th' only noncriminal action that will end a reporter's or anchor's career." Many years ago it was revealed that George Will had helped Ronald Reagan prepare for one of his presidential debates, then appeared on network tv to evaluate that debate. How come Will's career wasn't ended? During the 00 election, the sister of the senior political correspondent for Fox worked for George Bush. This fact was omitted from his public interview with Bush. How come his career wasn't ended? Oh, I forgot, they had immunity. They were conservatives.

    Re: O'Reilly Does Segment on Bloggers Paid by Dean (none / 0) (#22)
    by john horse on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:45:23 AM EST
    Can taking money compromise your integrity? It could. In an ideal world, newspapers, tv (CBS, CNN, Fox, etc.) and even blogs would accept no advertising for this reason. However, since we don't live in that world, what I expect is that our media be upfront and transparent. They should reveal any possible conflict of interests (like Kos did and Armstrong Williams did not) if they are commenting or reporting the news (and there is a difference between commenting or editorializing and reporting).

    good point john horse. how about having a Sec of State help run a campaign that seems fair too? maybe that would be pushing the limits

    A surprise that OReilly lies and carries the water of the rightwing? And Roger Ailes (the smart one) nails instapundit for what he really is

    This is the tactic the right used successfully --if they have a problem they try to make the problem universal -- your candidate is a slacker loser who was awol --destroy the military career of your opponent even if you have to lie to do (something instapundit took a big part in by the way) and if it turns out you have been illegally paying the electronic media to flog your progams --try to make it look like everyone does it..and once again lying and distorting to do it. (and instapundit once again playing a role in promoting the lies.)

    bad jim writes - "I also missed Kos pretending that he was an unbiased journalist." As I noted, there are two issues. Bloggers/journalist/advocacy groups taking money from the government. This is wrong just on the face of it Period. Armstrong Williams is the latest example and many have beat up on him But, as I demonstratd in my link, there are hundreds of advocacy groups, AARP, Planned Parenthood, EDF, also taking money. That is also wrong. I trust you don't need "why" explained to you Bloggers/journalists/advocacy groups taking money from political groups/advocacy groups and other individual, i.e. private money, is a different matter. But, once they take money, no matter the disclaimers, no matter how transparent, they lose a certain amount of force. See my 1/14 at 8:36PM in this thread comment for a very clear example. obelus writes - "How can you equate blogging with broadcasting or publishing?" I'm not. See the comments to bad jim. Ernesto - Let's be honest here. We both know that the majority of the public does not understand that their taxes are being given to these groups. Maybe the Williams flap will educate them. BTW - I am sure that you oppose government funding of the various "faith based" groups. If you do, how can you agree that government should fund any group?

    "Bloggers/journalists/advocacy groups taking money from political groups/advocacy groups and other individual, i.e. private money, is a different matter. But, once they take money, no matter the disclaimers, no matter how transparent, they lose a certain amount of force. See my 1/14 at 8:36PM in this thread comment for a very clear example." I'm comfortable with one standard for all: full disclosure. Why should it be different for bloggers?

    blogesota - It is not different, and disclosure is fine. And there is nothing wrong with what Kos did.. The problem is, once you start working for someone, you leave yourself open to responses like this. And obviously, it gives the other side a talking point. "On Tuesday Markos Moulitsas Zúniga of the Daily Kos, the most trafficked blog on the web, attacked me personally and erroneously for having written a column in the Union Leader (Manchester, NH) in which I defended New Hampshire's first-in-the-nation primary. "The author is a Republican, and a consultant. He stands to lose lots of cash if NH loses its leading role," he wrote of me in his weblog. Also on Tuesday the former Director of Internet Organizing for Dean for President, Zephyr Teachout, revealed that the selfsame Markos Moulitsas Zúniga (who goes by the handle "Kos") had been a paid shill for the Dean campaign, accepting fees for promoting the campaign of the angry little ex-Governor of Vermont on his blog. Oh yeah, Zúniga also gave "advice" to the campaign. A very interesting revelation for a guy who wrote after the Armstrong Williams pay-for-advocacy scandal broke, "we can assume every conservative pundit is on the White House's payola rolls," and accuses the "so-called" liberal media of being "outright shills for the Bush administration."

    Re: O'Reilly Does Segment on Bloggers Paid by Dean (none / 0) (#29)
    by Sailor on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 11:42:59 AM EST
    PPJ, try this link before commenting further. Kos was hired for and performed technical web consulting, not content, and disclosed the link. He did nothing wrong. Jerome disclosed the relationship and stopped blogging in the mean time. Zephyr and the WSJ have quite a bit to answer for in their ethiccal lapese in covering this story. You just expect this crap from Rush and O'Lielly. "You know, maybe the VRWC is just smarter than you." Or maybe there are so few MSM companies, and most of those are owned by corporations in bed with the WH, and vice versa.

    No comparison to the Armstrong Williams matter, but the repubs and their shills have become masters at creating a smoke screen. There will come a day when the smoke will not be thick enough to hide the real agenda of Dubya and his cronies from the American people. I thought we were there last summer, now I am hoping for the midterm elections. It's not going to matter if what is said is true or credible, ala Mr. O'Reilly, the voting folks will have to confront a fiscal crisis, sons and daughters in body bags, and watch the Halliburton walking away with bulging pockets, then they may connect the dots.

    Sailor - I haven' t read the WSJ article, but if it is as described, someone needs their rompies whacked. I think this whole thing has become confused and mixed. I still see the two issues as I described. As to what Kos did, I don't know. From this post it is my understanding that he "consulted" and "wrote." If that's wrong, someone can tell me. He did put a disclaimer. The other blog just shut down, although he was supposedly only giving technical type info. Either way, as I have stated, I see no wrong in what Kos did. It is his blog, and if he wanted to tell his readers he was working for Dean, that's fine. If not, fine. But.... Once you start taking money, then your status changes, and as I have noted, others will use that change. Perhaps fairly, perhaps unfairly. The bigger sin is in what Williams did. But, I see no difference in what he did than what various NP's do. Williams probably believed in the message he was giving, and so do the NP's. But both are wrong. William's message offended the Left. Planned Parenthood's message offends many on the right. All should be respected and the government should just quit giving. As for the MSM being owned by corporations, and not very many... True. But the news rooms have been left of center for years, with the owners basically not caring. What they want is profits.

    Man oh man it gets DEEP in here! (which is nice because it heightens the discussions, even if one needs tall boots). We are BLOGGERS, nothing more, nothing less. Those who want us to be demons or god-like can want all day and it aint gonna change anything. For sure there are many very bright and articulate bloggers out here, and there IS power. This is the world wide web and we attract wingnuts like dirtbags to a repugnican coronation ball, so lets not get too full of ourselves, ok?

    Straight talk from Tex, especially your conclusion. Also, re: George Will, he clearly articulated his position throught. Joe, who asked for "demons" or "god-like"? Averse to using ad-hominems, however, would be appreciated. And the "just bloggers" defense (I'm just doing my job..) has been tried before, unsuccessfully.