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Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying

The New York Times reports on an "extraordinary army" of secret Commandos working in the U.S..

The special-missions units belong to the Joint Special Operations Command, a secretive command based at Fort Bragg, N.C., whose elements include the Army unit Delta Force.

This is the group that was put into play for security at the Inauguration. They are part of a program called "Power Geyser." The first mention of the group is on a website for a book just released by former Army intelligence analyst William Arkin.

In a nutshell, the problem with this is the Posse Commitatus Act of 1878, which prevents the U.S. Military from acting as law enforcement officers inside the U.S. Amazingly, the article quotes a single, unnamed civil liberties advocate who says that "as described" by the reporter, he had no problem with it.

Patrick at the Samuel Coleridge Foundation outlines the problems, here's just a snippet, read is whole post:

So here's the problem: the (now crumbling) legal wall that was erected in the Nineteenth Century to keep the US military from tyrannizing US citizens is now one more scrap of paper in Alberto Gonzales' trash can for quaint old laws. Its origins are interestingly tainted: the main part of the drive to enact it was because Federal troops were attempting to guard the civil right of universal suffrage in a south that strove to keep blacks away from the polls. But regardless of the bad birth, by and large it has been good that the hand that would unleash US troops on the American citizenry has been restrained.

Now, in The Post-9/11 World Where Everything Has Changed, our administration sees no need to follow this law even pro-forma, by going through the requisite authorization by Congress or declaration of an emergency by the President...they simply put the troops in place, counting on the idea that any subsequent challenge can be cleared by the courts after the fact.

...But what happens, if something happens? Our troops are not trained or equipped to perform in an American city without bringing to it what they brought to Fallujah. Their rifle bullets will pass easily through residential walls; their grenades will kill at a range of several meters. They are trained to eliminate any potential threat during execution of a mission. In contrast, our law enforcement personnel are trained to protect and preserve the lives of the citizens, and to use deadly force only when required.

.....if you look to the past, the citizens of a police state have never ended up better off, or safer. Because once we accept this step, the next will come, and we'll accept that too: maybe dangerous suspects that might have weapons will justify apprehension by the military...then suspicions that a suspect might be hiding in a neighborhood will justify entry and search by the military...then inability to exactly determine a suspect will justify large-scale detention and interrogation by the military.

18 U.S.C. 1385

Sec. 1385. Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus

Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act ofCongress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

[Updated to delete reference to 13,000 which pertained to the total number of officers doing security)

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    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 11:29:08 AM EST
    Praetorian guard anyone? Isn't that more than the amount of troops in Afghanistan? Hey, maybe that's why the search for WMD ended last week?

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 12:09:19 PM EST
    So, did Bush secretly waive posse comatatus on an unending basis for vague domestic goals? Sounds like yet one more impeachable offense. What can these military forces do that the FBI can't? More law than the pc is being broken by this, for sure. How many secret state of emergency orders is Bush using to remove his enemies?

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#3)
    by wishful on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 12:46:22 PM EST
    Does anyone remember when Tom DeLay got Tom Ridge to illegally order Homeland Security to mobilize military aircraft to locate Texas Democrats. They were trying to stop the currently-in-litigation gerrymandering by leaving the state? What ever happened to those taking illegal action? Oh. Nothing. Right.

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#4)
    by jondee on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 01:39:48 PM EST
    Are we ending up paying them to do to us what we payed them for so long to do to Salvadorans,Congolese, Haitians,Iranians etc etc.? Thank you sir - may I have another? Right Jim?

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 01:50:31 PM EST
    TL - you read too quickly. The story doesn't say there is a group of 13,000 commandos with this special duty. It says that a very small (and highly classified) number of such commandos was among the 13,000 police, military, and federal agents who altogether were assigned to guard the inauguration.

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 02:43:16 PM EST
    Important correction: the NYT article does not claim that there were "13,000 secret commandos." It states that "a small group" of secret commandos was "part of the extraordinary army of 13,000 troops, police officers and federal agents marshaled to secure the inauguration."

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 03:47:24 PM EST
    Thanks to both commenters for pointing out the error. I will fix it.

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#8)
    by chris on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 04:20:28 PM EST
    Ever since the DoD started sending Marines on "urban warfare" exercises in American cities (I helped organize one response back in the day). On 12 September 2001, as I watched young kids from the Guard take over the Armory in New York, nervously hefting their weapons and trying to look tough, I could have predicted the scenario in that Post article. The main question now is, how can we respond? Perhaps most critically, how can we get the commandos themselves to question this domestic mission?

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 04:31:54 PM EST
    The main question now is, how can we respond? Perhaps most critically, how can we get the commandos themselves to question this domestic mission?
    Odds are that you won't ever achieve that. Their "specialized training" would prevent it. At least that's what I think. It's truly horrific to think of some of the things the shrub has done via executive orders... I thought Republicans were against big government? LOL

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#10)
    by Linkmeister on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 05:33:48 PM EST
    Ah, Todd, you forget. Ever since Richard Nixon they've been the "law and order" party. That trumps "small government" every time.

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 07:50:51 PM EST
    How long have commandos been operating inside the US? What or who have their other missions or targets been? Have any of them been political, prior to the Bush affair this month? Gee, it would be so nice if there were people and organizations whose job it was to find out stuff that was new and important and communicate it. We could call them "reporters" and "news organizations." It would create jobs!

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#12)
    by Adept Havelock on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 08:00:08 PM EST
    I'd really appreciate some observations on how this relates to Posse Comitatus. Seems to me that this would be a flagrant violation. What loophole allows this if it isn't a violation?

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 08:08:27 PM EST
    Consent of Congress.

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 08:38:14 PM EST
    Here is some info on JSOC. JSOC units regularly conduct training with similar units from around the world, and provide training to nations that request US support. JSOC has also provide support to domestic law enforcement agencies during high profile, or high risk events such as the Olympics, the World Cup, political party conventions; and Presidential inaugurations. The full text of PDD-25 is reported to exempt the Joint Special Operations Command from the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 18USC Sec.1385, PL86-70, Sec. 17[d]. which makes it illegal for military and law enforcement to exercise jointly.

    Re: Secret Commandos Doing Domestic Spying (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 23, 2005 at 11:02:47 PM EST
    The scandals are coming! The scandals are coming! The reason why our country continues to be habitable is that violating our civil rights leads inevitably to BAD RESULTS. For instance, NORAD's standing orders shouldn't have been changed by Rumsfeld in July 01. He also shouldn't have pretended that he had nothing to do with 911, but that's a different topic. Bush shouldn't have taken the whole month of August off, after threatening Afghanistan, in July 01, with invasion in October. Oops, but again, a different topic. It would have been best if Ashcroft would have listened to FBI agent & whistleblower Sibel Edmonds, rather than have the FBI investigating CA medical marijuana clinics and Bush family political enemies. But that's a different topic, too. Extraordinary measures may be necessary to secure the safety of Americans. But destroying American's ability to travel by making everyone hate our guts, AND giving away 4,000 shoulder-fired missiles to persons unknown in Iraq, probably not among those measures. Gonzales can crawl up our rectums, but it probably won't make us safer. That won't stop him from loosing the dogs for secret political purposes. But IF the only way we can be safer is to have secret police serving Bush's political expediency -- well, we've already seen how well that 'works,' and what comes out of the windows is not confetti.