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ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 12:25:14 PM EST
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The ACLU wants Alberto Gonzales, if confirmed, to appoint a special counsel to investigate torture abuses:

The American Civil Liberties Union today called upon senators to insist - prior to voting on the nomination of Alberto Gonzales as attorney general - that he commit to immediately appoint an outside special counsel to investigate and prosecute any criminal acts by civilians in the torture or abuse of detainees by the U.S. Government.

"In America, no one is above the law, even those at the highest level of government," said Christopher E. Anders, an ACLU legislative counsel. "Senators should demand now that Gonzales show the American people that he is beholden not to the political sways of the White House, but to the interests of truth and justice, by committing to the immediate appointment of an outside special counsel to investigate any and all criminal conduct by civilians in the use of torture and abuse against prisoners."

At his confirmation hearing, Gonzales failed to adequately answer inquiries from both sides of the aisle about the Bush Administration's policies on the torture and abuse of prisoners and detainees. The ACLU said that the appointment of an outside special counsel - with full investigatory and prosecutorial powers - is the only way to ensure that all civilians who violated federal laws against torture will be held responsible

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    ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture | 51 comments (51 topical)
    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#2)
    by ras on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 01:25:58 PM EST
    First the Berlin Wall was taken down; now Iraq becomes a democracy. The attacks on Gonzales will be seen for the smokescreen that they are, attempted distractions by political rivals. Kinda hard not to notice the bigger picture today, nor which US presidents made it possible.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 01:46:22 PM EST
    fascism one party rule. yu are still quite naked. gloat on.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#4)
    by Andreas on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 01:56:31 PM EST
    It is nothing new that right-wing extremists are drawn to "Schreibtischtäter", war criminals and torturers. That is known since the Nazi regime.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#5)
    by Adept Havelock on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 02:00:46 PM EST
    How sad. We have reached a point in our national discourse when bringing up the fact the the current nominee for AG wrote a memo defending torture, and the use of it, is considered mere partisan politics, a smokescreen. Could it possibly be that there are many Americans who actually disagree with the notion that there is nothing wrong with torture? I certainly am uncomfortable with it. Too much of a slippery slope for my taste. How pathetic that so many are willing to ignore basic moral questions in their zeal to maintain power at any cost. Too bad people can't see past their own short-term political gain, and realize that endorsing torture is one more step towards turning this great nation into just another bannana republic. To the retorts of "the left does it too" that are sure to follow: Since when does two wrongs make a right? Sounds like "moral relativism" to me. -A cholera on the extremists of both houses.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#6)
    by cp on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 02:52:53 PM EST
    actually, i think the 2006 mid-term elections will be a shock for the republicans. by that time, the full extent of the catastrophic failures of the present administration will be hard to hide. the first victims of voter discontent will be those repubs who have to stand for re-election. at that point, the dominos will begin to fall, and the entire congress will start to swing back to the democrats. normally, this is two decade or so process. however, given the extent to which the republicans have screwed up, since they gained control of both houses, and now the white house, the process has accelerated. it will be entertaining, if nothing else.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#7)
    by jimcee on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 03:41:06 PM EST
    I used to like the ACLU but then they got nutty. I'm not sure if it was when they were going to sue all those towns that had a religious name ala "Santa, St., etc", I think that was the eighties or with the changes demanded of city emblems in LA. With all the percieved serious civil rights violations in the world one would think they could find something more tangable to latch onto. Is there nothing more important for them to look into? Crikeys.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 03:58:33 PM EST
    Call for special prosecutor is long overdue. Do the dem-leaning prosecutor lists have anyone as aggressive as Ken Starr for the job? Can we allow this prosecutor to do a little shock and awe to help develop the case?

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 04:17:07 PM EST
    It's a matter of integrity and a measure of their perspicacity that the ACLU is so well-known for managing to aggravate all points on the political compass at one time or another. They are as likely to champion the right of Nazis to organize,demonstrate, and otherwise exercise their Nazi first amendment rights as they are to champion the case of possible abuse of human rights by Alberto and Dubya. If you think they are nutty, you just don't understand their mission, the legal basis for their arguments. For us history buffs: I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." (Patrick Henry) Founding father, patriot, and early member of the ACLU.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 04:57:24 PM EST
    To CP: Oh yes, the 2006 elections will be as "bad" to the GOP as the 1994 midterms, 2002 midterms, and the 2004 elections. What was it that Terry McAuliffe said on election night 2002? A great night for Democrats? LOL!! And if the Dems are in such denial as to pick Howard Dean as DNC Chair, then I guarantee that the "God, guns, and gays" tantrum that Dean threw will come back to bite the Dems in the behind all across Red State country.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#11)
    by Che's Lounge on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 04:57:32 PM EST
    CA, I wonder why Patrick Henry hated america so?

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 05:18:46 PM EST
    Patrick Henry was a bit of a class warrior. I think Adams the elder referred to him as a cur or mongrel or something like that. Sort of like today, the patriots are not of one mind. The generous patriots assume that their opponents have good intentions and poor thought processes, the less generous patriots wonder like to paint their opponents into a corner with questions like why do you hate America. But, yes, Patrick Henry, mongrel as he may have been would be facing that question today.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 06:30:53 PM EST
    "(Patrick Henry) Founding father, patriot, and early member of the ACLU. " What an absolute crock of S**T. Patrick Henry was not a member of the ACLU and it is beyond supposition to assume that he would even agree with their positions, let alone deign to join the organization.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#14)
    by scarshapedstar on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 06:32:03 PM EST
    Even I will admit that the ACLU's war on religion is counterproductive. But the people who think average people simply don't care about torture, well, you've got your heads up your a**es. If torture is such a winning issue, why not show the tapes on TV? Why not have Bush electrocute some Iraqi genitals himself and call it an important policy speech? And then when the ACLU has the nerve to complain about such a fine display of patriotism, the Republicans will control the government for a thousand years. Idiots.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#15)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 06:49:00 PM EST
    Who exactly would the wingnuts LIKE to force a look at how people in our custody got themselves tortured? Torture took place. Torture is illegal under US Federal law and a number of international treaties to which we are signatories. There is no possiblity of torture being legal, or under any circumstances, the right thing to do. When crimes such as torture are as widespread as we have seen, it is not an accident. If the president did not condone torture, it would not have happened. There is no excuse for Mr. Bush not being aware of it. In the military, not knowing what your men are doing does not exonerate you. It just shows that you have failed as a leader. If Clinton was impeached for a blowjob, Bush should fry for this.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:12:46 PM EST
    Patrick Henry as early member of ACLU was tongue in cheek. Guess I have to point that out since some of the right wingers don't seem to have any good sense or sense for humor either.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:26:04 PM EST
    Good for the ACLU, It about time. and by the way say why Alberto the bush boy was doing what he did for bush and Fox, look it up and do your own research..start with the mexican news papers in 1992-96.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 07:26:04 AM EST
    For us history buffs: I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." (Patrick Henry) The quote was actually by Voltaire.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#19)
    by Adept Havelock on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 08:50:31 AM EST
    Thanks for the Voltaire pointer noname. I always had a fondness for that old freethinker!

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:09:04 AM EST
    - Love Voltaire - Love the ACLU and their active employment of the Freedom of Information Act to the benefit of those who want America to remain a democracy. CP writes:
    actually, i think the 2006 mid-term elections will be a shock for the republicans. by that time, the full extent of the catastrophic failures of the present administration will be hard to hide. the first victims of voter discontent will be those repubs who have to stand for re-election.
    From your fingertips to God's cyber-connection, cp.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:55:29 AM EST
    The quote was actually by Voltaire.
    Or, rather, is usually popularly attributed to Voltaire, as it appeared in The Friends of Voltaire (1906); it was actually written by Evelyn Beatrice Hall as a characterization of Voltaire's attitude, based on, for instance, his writing in the Essay on Tolerance: "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too."

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:20:20 PM EST
    If the people on this board think the vast majority of the American people have any problem with the thought of some Al-Queda nut being tortured in order to uncover a plot to do harm to the United States, they are sadly mistaken. Not on would the majority of Americans not have a problem with it (under those circumtances), the would demand it.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#23)
    by Adept Havelock on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:26:27 PM EST
    MB- And I assume you have evidence to back up this somewhat unlikely assumption about the "vast majority" of the American people. Studies, polls, or suchlike? Or have you just been hanging around too many freepers?

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:37:44 PM EST
    just my belief. When our immediate safety is at issue, nobody's going to care how they get the info., just that they get it. I suspect all of you (the people on the board) believe that too when push comes to shove.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:48:19 PM EST
    some Al-Queda nut being tortured in order to uncover a plot to do harm to the United States,
    I challenge you to produce one "Al-Queda nut" in custody or point to one example of a plot foiled by the wearing of underwear on a detainees head. Who on earth thinks that the rounding up of civilians by the military to combat insurrection, got some or any of the "right" people. Who on earth (besides the loyal wing-nuts on this site)things that a bunch of poor slobs who were in the wrong place at the wrong time(it was their country, after all, we didn't arrest them at ground zero). And I rephrase your ridiculous statement and put it to the people like this: If you knew that, out of every 100 people tortured, 90 of these were innocent and the other 10 had marginally relevant and highly unreliable info., would they find this equation justifiable. For God's sake I hope not. And, by the way, how would you sort out the info. obtained from the knowledgable detainee from the terrified blathering of the rest (I'd be blathering any lie I thought would get people to stop - I have no pride!) SHAME ON YOU for your thoughtless dismissal of thousands of lives. SHAME ON YOU for making MY country a country of torturers with no accountability. I say, BRING IT ON (the special outside counsel). Like the prisoners, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:52:20 PM EST
    lol, yeah, they're all just innocent by-standers. None of them were actually fighting to protect the people who launched planes into the Trade Center. As for rest, that's just what I think: that if signiciant info could be had to protect American lives, that Americans wouldn't give two cents about how that info was retrieved, just that it was.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#27)
    by Adept Havelock on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:54:51 PM EST
    Sorry to disappoint MB. I don't turn my back on my moral beliefs just because the going gets tough. I happen to believe these principles are worth fighting and sacrificing for. "Do not do as they do, or the battle is lost before it is joined".

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:00:19 PM EST
    Let me get this straight. There's a dirty bomb planted somewhere in the US. We are lucky enough to capture one of the people who knows of the plot. He won't talk. We try everything (short of torture),and he won't talk. Are you telling me you're not going to do whatever you can to save maybe millions of lives? I hope you're kidding.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#29)
    by jondee on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:16:18 PM EST
    MB - Apply your draconian(look it up)thought-processes to the gross incompetance exhibited by the administration in office during 9/11,and you come up with what? Negligent homocide? Dereliction of duty? Or does hiding behind the symbolism flags,God(the ultimate in name-dropping),guns etc Give you a pass in perpetuity?

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#30)
    by Adept Havelock on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:16:33 PM EST
    Why do you assume torture would provide any valid information? I and most others would say anything to make it stop. For a decent assesment of what types of confessions can be generated by torture, I suggest you look at the history of organizations that routinely employed it like the KGB and GRU. People would implicate everyone around them, only to make it stop. What makes you think it would be any different because "we" were commiting torture. I would suggest using the NEST teams, and I'm sure there has been some classified govt. research into detecting radiological signatures since 9/11. If not, this administration should be impeached for being incompetent.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#31)
    by Adept Havelock on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:19:19 PM EST
    I swear, the conversations on this issue have led me to believe that if Bush ate a live kitten on TV during primetime, some wingnuts would defend his act.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:23:13 PM EST
    this administration should be impeached for being incompetent? You've got to be kidding me. This administration may well go into history as the greatest US administration ever. The administration that finally forced the Middle East into democracy. Not a small accomplishment friends....

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#33)
    by Adept Havelock on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:33:13 PM EST
    Nice try MB, but your only using half my statement. I said :"and I'm sure there has been some classified govt. research into detecting radiological signatures since 9/11. If not, this administration should be impeached for being incompetent." As for "forcing the Middle East into democracy" , you are just another premature triumphalist (you know, there are cures for that problem). When IRAQ has had a few elections without devolving into a fundamentalist Islamic state, and can have an election without locking down the country with thousands of US troops, I'll believe Bush has spread democracy to one part of the middle east. Until then, I'm to much of a realist to be anything but a skeptic. I couldn't help notice you ignored my points about torture though. No quick tips on how to reply from Free Republic?

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#34)
    by Adept Havelock on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:35:14 PM EST
    As for the "greatest admin. ever?". Someone is clearly off their meds if they think Bush Inc. is superior to say... George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, or Abe Lincoln.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:40:11 PM EST
    yeah, it's premature. But Bush stands to be one of the greatest Presidents ever if this region starts a transmformation which is now absoultely possible. As for the torture issue, sure, if it could be proven that torture absolutely cannot he get informaion, I would be against it. I don't want torture for torture's sake...just to save lives.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#36)
    by Adept Havelock on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:48:40 PM EST
    MB- if this region starts a transmformation which is now absoultely possible. And one election where turnout was encouraged by the deliberate spreading of the rumor that no vote=no food rations leads you to this conclusion exactly how? Step 1)Invade and occupy Iraq Step 2)Sponsor an Election Step 3)-a miracle happens? Step 4)Big democracy cake walk in the ME. What exactly happens in step 3 that leads us to step 4 and the cannonization of St. George? Can you explain? Also: "As for the torture issue, sure, if it could be proven that torture absolutely cannot he get informaion" Plenty of studies have been done that prove torture is not a good method of obtaining intel. Our own military (used to) reject it because of this fact. From what I can divine of your somewhat garbled statement, you want people to prove a negative. Take a logic class, you'll find that can't be done.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:53:02 PM EST
    Step 3- middle East populations take note of Iraq, and demand transformation from their own governments. Reforms become the norm. Peaceful transformation occurs over time.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:56:07 PM EST
    As for the torture issue. The greatest number of lives is of the utmost import. If Amercian lives can be saved by these tatics of "iterrogation" (not for sport) then they must not be prelucded. And that is what I believe most American would agree on.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#39)
    by Adept Havelock on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:03:10 PM EST
    MB- step 3- At this point, nothing more than wishful thinking. The ME is hardly Soviet Occupied Eastern Europe. Why do you assume that a culture so unlike Eastern Europes would respond in the same way? Different history, culture, society, and traditions. Your view seems to simplistic to me. Your take on torture? If you can't accept the fact that it's been proven not to work, diminishes our ability to provide moral leadership in the world, and calls into question many of the basic assumptions about this nation there's no reasoning with you. I guess your just another "my country right or wrong" type. On this note, I excuse myself from this thread to return to RL.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 05:24:39 PM EST
    Adept - Can you provide a link that proves torture doesn't work? I mean I'm willing enough to agree that it doesn't, but it just dawned on me that I haven't seen any real informtion on the subject from a real person who might have some knowledge to draw from.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#41)
    by glanton on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 06:22:03 PM EST
    I have yet to see any real evidence that our government or our soldiers are "torturing" anybody. This is grasping at straws, as they say, which is pathetic when there's so much to criticize about our policies. All it does it give nuts like Rush and Coulter ammunition.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#42)
    by Adept Havelock on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 07:19:16 PM EST
    PPJ- For starters, try reading the works of Solzhenitsyn or any of his comrades that suffured through the gulag system. Viktor Suvurov's (the 60's defector)work also touches on this issue in a few spots. You also might read some of the accounts of SS and Gestapo questioning during the second world war. That's how I came by my information. One book at a time. No easy "one click" link for you, my good man. -Ask yourself how many real conversions were won by the Holy Inquisition of the Catholic Church. Glanton- For me, it's the fact that we are debating if torture is a legitimate tool that bothers me. The Right is encouraging a slippery slope that if "agressive" interrogation is allright, what's wrong with taking it a little further? I mean, if the techniques in Gitmo are no big deal, how long until we decide to start using more draconian measures? That's my main concern.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#43)
    by glanton on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 07:36:17 PM EST
    Adept: Okay, granted. But I've noticed a lot of people these days are willing to cross the line a little bit, calling Gonzales "Mr. Torture" and that sort of thing. And I'm not saying it's never happened--I'm just saying it's not policy right now to torture people for information. And I'm not so sure that we need to fight to keep it from becoming policy. I hope not, anyways.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#44)
    by glanton on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 07:38:38 PM EST
    However, Adept, this: "I swear, the conversations on this issue have led me to believe that if Bush ate a live kitten on TV during primetime, some wingnuts would defend his act." stands out as one of the truest posts in the history of this blog. We agree in spirit, especially the part about poxing the extremists.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#45)
    by Robert on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:11:19 PM EST
    The ACLU has become a marginal subversive organization. "Rights witout responsibility is license." Let us have civil responsibility legislation. Torture transgressions are reported and corrected in our society unlike coutries the the left leaning apologists prefer. I watch Fox news

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 06:54:43 AM EST
    Torture statistics please on Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, New Zealand. Those are the countries that this left-leaner admires. I suppose let's not forget Poland, maybe Iceland. The right wingers are responsible for places like Chile, Guatemala, Columbia where torture is unheard of, right? I hope the ACLU presses this matter. It's important. We should not be testing the limits of torture. We should be adhering to our treaties and values. Unfortunately, mob mentality, meanness, and stupidity are being developed and exploited by the current cabal in DC and the upshot is that lots of Americans have lost their bearings and can't spot the absolute horror that is behind the smiling Alberto. Happened in Germany a few decades ago. Human beings can be whipped into a completely stupid frenzy with a little planning and devotion to the cause.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#47)
    by soccerdad on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 06:58:43 AM EST
    I watch Fox news
    You didn't have to tell us we could tell

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#48)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 07:46:00 AM EST
    Stick a billy club up my arse, I'll tell you Jesus ate dinner at my house last night, if that is what you want to hear. Common sense dictates torture is ineffective. In fact, torturing a suspect could lead to receiving bad info that would be more detrimental than no info.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 10:58:46 AM EST
    Robert writes: "The ACLU has become a marginal subversive organization" ... They have been ever since Reagan smeared Mike Dukakis in his 1980 campaign by calling him a "card carrying member". He also writes:
    Torture transgressions are reported and corrected in our society
    Yes, stupid, primarily from Freedom of Information Act requests generated by...guess who? The ACLU.

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:00:08 AM EST
    Kdog... as tempting as the billy club scenario sounds, I'll have to pass. By the way, I found Jesus. He was behind the couch the whole time. LoL

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 12:03:39 PM EST
    Ah yes! The Anti-American Communist Losers' Union. Gotta love how these jokers try to remain relevant. I hope these liberal leftists keep this up because it can only give the GOP a supermajority in the Senate come the 2006 midterm elections. [medscribe, you are limited to four comments a day.]

    Re: ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 12:19:34 PM EST
    Ah yes! The Anti-American Communist Losers' Union
    Sorry, I can't resist..only a knucklehead of the first order could call an organization committed to DEFENDING civil liberties anti-american. What America do you live in pal? (mfox....sub "mook" for "knucklehead" if needed)

    ACLU Calls for Special Counsel on Torture | 51 comments (51 topical)