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John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the Blogosphere

By Jeralyn, Section Media
Posted on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 05:49:43 PM EST
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Update: Alterman responds to Cloud.

Nobody really cares about Mr. Cloud personally, or the fact that he found Ms. Coulter so charming and “ironic” sipping her white Bordeaux and throwing her blonde locks back as she downed her Nicorette. The issue that engages those of us who are invested in protecting and defending the honesty and integrity of American journalism is that Mr. Cloud has used the powerful and influential pages of Time magazine to declare Ms. Coulter’s work “mostly accurate” while admitting that neither he, nor Time’s minions, did the necessary work to defend that pronouncement.

*************
Who is John Cloud? He's the Time Magazine reporter who wrote the puff cover piece on the she-pundit with long blond hair. He also is today's most ridiculed reporter in the blogosphere.

First, Cloud's Infraction

Initial Response to Infraction

Cloud's response to his critics

His just desserts:

On Time Magazine's List of 100 Most Influential People

Update: AOL News Tracks the Blogs reports:

Following the Right and Wrongs

So, TIME magazine does a cover story about the "real" Ann Coulter. In
the Blogosphere, you'd think a war had begun -- and it has, over
journalism and politics. Some hate the story and its message, and Ann
herself isn't happy. Read on...

· Talk Left tracks the arguments; the author defends himself.

· Eric Alterman keeps on criticizing the story here.

· Cancel my TIME subscription, says Daily Kos.

· Michelle Malkin has some complaints about the cover.

· Think Progress, Skippy and Wolcott take serious issue.

· And Light of Reason finds the whole argument moot.

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    John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the Blogosphere | 60 comments (60 topical)
    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#1)
    by pigwiggle on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 07:04:35 PM EST
    Not influential? All of my left leaning friend, without exception, know and despise her. All of my right leaning friend, again without exception, know and lust for her. This very post contains a laundry list of folks (people who certainly have something to say with many listening) influenced enough to spend some of their finite time to hate her in print. Plenty of influence.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 07:13:49 PM EST
    all of my left leaning friend, without exception, know and despise her. all of my right leaning friend, again without exception, know and lust for her. you only have two friends? seriously, i stopped by to thank talkleft for the links, but, as a minor correction, my first post really didn't deal with john cloud's piece, as much as with the non-fact-checking time interns who wrote the incorrect caption labeling the "communists for kerry" conservative satire group as actual leftist protestors, on one of the pictures in the gallery.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 07:24:37 PM EST
    Skippy, you're right, so I deleted that link. Sorry for the mixup.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#4)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 07:29:22 PM EST
    We need less emphasis on personalities and more emphasis on issues. The cult of celebrity is the biggest obstacle to political dialogue in this country today.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 08:26:47 PM EST
    The saddest part - or funniest, take your pick - is when Cloud states that it's not his job to be a fact-checker (Memo to Cloud: That's part of the job description a being a reporter, douchebag - fact-checking your sources and your interview subject) and refuses to admit he was lazy and did next-to-zero actual reporting for this story. Instead he goes into these bizarre rants about Eric Alterman being a name-caller, about David Brock being snitty because he and Coulter aren't friends anymore, and - best of all - he inadvertently compares Coulter to Stalin and Hitler. Hah!

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#6)
    by Darryl Pearce on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 09:14:30 PM EST
    I will never forgive Coulter for calling my family traitors. Should the opportunity present itself, I shall demand that she apologize to me and my son, a medic in the army.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 09:56:57 PM EST
    My favorite line is where Cloud says that he doesn't care what conservatives or liberals think of his piece. As if "consumers" or "readers" of news are some other form/class of American than "liberals" or "conservatives". Who exactly is he writing for, if not for "conservatives" or "liberals"? Not a huge market to sell magazines to Anarchists.... ...Centrists? ...The undecided? The MSM Corporatist media's target audience? But wait, they aren't interested in swaying public opinion, just reporting news? Conformity to the Corporatist status quo through a manufactured/contrived ideological division of the population -- seems like ad revenue depends on on a stable market for them...something to think about. Technology has driven market forces to the Corporatist philosophies that now govern all aspects of our daily life - the most powerful in our society now use those forces to control our access to information. The independent minded journalist is an oxymoron. Coulter is a racist witch, but that some of us already new - the rest are in purposeful denial.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 10:27:33 PM EST
    boo hoo, talkleft! i hate to have links deleted! so i am manually re-inserting it, ha ha. skippy writes a letter to time about their incorrect caption on a picture in their annthrax story. personally, i was outraged when cloud, in the cjr interview, said time decided to do the story on coulter because the right won the election "pretty decisively." proof that the main stream media thinks 51% to 49% is "pretty decisive."

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 12:04:16 AM EST
    thanks for the list of links! (i found the daily howler's analysis was the most informative -- but not on your list)

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 04:16:40 AM EST
    Wile E Coyote: Well, if you'd bothered to read the article, you might have come across this little gem:
    But then she added with a grin, “Liberals are about to become the last people to figure out that Arabs lie.”
    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 05:39:46 AM EST
    TS - Actually he's writing for the editors. If they don't like it, he doesn't get paid. et al - Most of you, I would guess, have never read a book by Coulter, instead depending on "reviews" to tell you what said. Not exactly the most reliable way to collect ibformation. I would grant you she has a sharp tongue and a mean turn of phrase, but calling her a "racist witch," among other things, is hardly engaging in am exchange of ideas.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#14)
    by cp on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 05:52:44 AM EST
    cloud doesn't respond to the actual criticisms, he merely flings dung at those criticizing, setting up various straw men, and knocking them down. had he done even a cursory job of fact checking, he would have to have realized that most of what coulter writes is not only intellectual drivel, but either outright lies, or bald misapplications of fact. her book footnotes tell the tale, should anyone bother looking. the only reason ms. coulter has any audience at all is because of her perceived good looks, looks which are in quick decline. one might legitimately refer to her as a hard right bimbo, all looks and no substance. this is the critique that cloud should have addressed, but chose to ignore.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 07:23:28 AM EST
    Wow PPJ, when it's someone on the right it suddenly wrong to stop that all important open exchange of ideas that you so rigorously adhere to. All those racist quotes of hers must suddenly make sense if only I read all of the book. Whatever...

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 09:10:06 AM EST
    Pigwiggle, please stay on topic. John Cloud, the she-pundit.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 09:18:58 AM EST
    cloud doesn't respond to the actual criticisms, he merely flings dung at those criticizing, setting up various straw men, and knocking them down.
    exactly. it cracks me up that he simply avoids answering alterman's assertions by saying that alterman simply avoids answering his assertions.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 10:33:54 AM EST
    PPJ, I have not read her books, but I have read her columns. She has said some very disturbing things about Arabs. I would definitely say she is a racist.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 11:04:07 AM EST
    PPJ - It's a little hard to have an 'exchange of ideas' with someone who literally believes that the opposition is traitorous. She's suggested that liberals be intimidated by reminding us that we can be killed, she's called for the invasion of all Muslim countries and blanket forcible conversion to xtianity, and she's even suggested (and I heard her say this) that all liberals (like Europeans, she said) have loveless marriages and joyless sex. Why don't you come up with some plausible context in which any of that qualifies as rational argument. None of those suggestions are 'ideas', as such. They're dehumanizing comments, calls to hatred, calls to violence, calls to bigotry. The only ideas she has are that liberals are all evil people who love terrorists, sell out their country, and hate God and religion. All claims that are ridiculous lies on their face, just flat out and completely wrong. Raab - Seriously man, what the heck is this with the witches? Did somebody curse you back in the day, throw a chalice at your head in a Sabbat gone horribly awry, what? It just isn't fair to malign pagans by comparing them to Coulter.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#23)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 01:08:25 PM EST
    Natasha, They're dehumanizing comments, calls to hatred, calls to violence, calls to bigotry. The only ideas she has are that liberals are all evil people who love terrorists, sell out their country, and hate God and religion. All claims that are ridiculous lies on their face, just flat out and completely wrong. Well said.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 01:33:22 PM EST
    I only had to read one paragraph to see that Cloud is completely Pu**y Whipped by Coulter. Which feeds my suspicion that many conservatives are sexually repressed and can only find release in fantasies that involve relinquishing control. Imagine answering "the ad" and getting "Nazi Condy" and "Kill 'em Coulter" for the night. Trolls - please sprinkle "grains of salt" liberally.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 02:05:41 PM EST
    Tampa: Yep it looks like for once you maybe correct. (can't use the word right here). I did like the human dirigible line though. Mfox: You the troll, man! What a post.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#26)
    by michael on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 03:09:03 PM EST
    I am amazed...I read this article about three hours ago and went straight to my computer and wrote a letter to the editor of Time Magazine....the cover is disgusting and the article offends because it so portrays Ann Coulter in a light that is erroneous and disengenuous....now I find out there is a huge uproar over this cover and the article....thank God there are still a whole bunch of sane people on the planet!

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 03:26:13 PM EST
    I never thought I would live to see the day when calls to violence, war, mass murder, ethnic and political cleansing are once again made publically acceptable. Have we learned nothing from the horrors of the Holocaust? Are the death of 12 million forgotten? It is my opinion that this Coulter is no different today than Hittler was in his day.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 03:29:50 PM EST
    As a FAR left liberal dem, I don't despise Ann Coulter at all. As a matter of fact, I think she's good for us democrats. She epitomizes all the nasty, negative, racist, homophobic, sexist bullsh*t that the republican party stands for. Liberals could not have painted a better picture of the republicans or selected a better spokesperson to represent them. Let's encourage her to spew her venom as much as she wants. It's like having Charlie Manson speaking for Ginzu knives or for the NRA. After watching her one time, anyone with half an ounce of sense would be so disgusted with republicans that they would race to the nearest Hillary Clinton fan club and sign up.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 03:31:13 PM EST
    Huh? Do you not see that it's hypocritical to plead for an "open exchange of ideas" when people are criticizing someone on the right, yet engage in the exact same thing when it involves those on the left? You can't have it both ways... RACIST WITCH

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#29)
    by terry on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 03:40:57 PM EST
    What a waste. Ann Coulter is a physically beautiful person with an ugly, hate-filled mind. I don't mean her politics either. Many lefites also fit that description. It's time to take back American politics from the extremes and return it to the moderate majority.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 04:26:19 PM EST
    I think Ann is in the same pack as the Arien Nation folks. She probably has a skin head and wears a blond wig.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 04:31:01 PM EST
    A bulimic velociraptor with a text-book case of hysteria. PPJ, why do we need to read Coulters books when we have you?

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 04:44:30 PM EST
    Cloud wanted to write about how WONDERFUL and GENERALLY CORRECT Eric Rudolph is, but the conviction scandal scotched the story. Why won't those activist judges leave a good man alone to kill innocent people he hates? Then he wanted to do a piece on the Grand Wizard of the KKK, but even with the fisheye lens, they couldn't fit the hood on the cover. Not only that, but Grover Norquist complained that his best hood was at the dry cleaners. Some wag suggested they put one of those blown-in-half 7-year old 'terryists' from Iraq on the front cover, but Time's publisher Ed McCarrick said the magazine design already uses 'too much' red. They prefer pictures of white supremacist liars over the red truth spurting out of soldiers severed thighs all across Iraq. They never met a bigot they didn't like. Apparently, they wanted to admit it. Stockholder lawsuit, in progress.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 04:45:26 PM EST
    Does Anne have a adams apple?

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 04:50:04 PM EST
    I guess I would say I am almost scared to make my statement in a room full of liberals. I can see why Ann talks the way she does. When a Rebulican or conservatives make bad comments about the liberals and the democrats, they crawl out from their holes in the walls in mass number to beat and bash every word of what is said. But when the Dems and liberals of the world say something negative about the Reps. and conservatives we just take it and we don't start bashing them. Conservatives and Republicans do not act like bullies on a school house playground. We make our statements in a fashion so that they do get underneath the skin of the liberals and Dems. And the sad part is they fall for it. I love Ann and I admire her work and what she stands for. So instead of blaming her and putting her down take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself if all this fuss over one persons thoughts and beliefs is really worth it. Take the hostility and put it to use.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#35)
    by jondee on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 05:01:17 PM EST
    Carolyn - Yes, youre all so virtuous, noble, and pure. Oh, and as Ann never tires of reminding us, THE true Americans. The best we on the left can hope for is your intercessions and blessings.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 05:04:02 PM EST
    they crawl out from their holes in the walls in mass number to beat and bash
    followed by
    we just take it and we don't start bashing them
    Not that I mean to scare anyone away, but that's just too blatant. Anyway, as far as I can tell, the only winner in all of this is Ann Coulter.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 05:55:55 PM EST
    Having read and watched Coulter, I guess the problem I had with the article is that it seemed to take her too seriously. She is a shallow thinker and a hack that has gotten where she has by saying outrageous things (that unfortunately are as idiotic as they are controversial) and her long legs and hair. She has made herself into a ridiculous cartoon character. What saddens me is that she is even given a stage for her vitriole and foolishness. It is not like she has done anything to deserve any worthwhile consideration. I guess as long as there are superficial male commentators with their own shows and penchant for short skirts then she will continue to degrade our airways. btw -- I wonder if she would find hateful insults and threats so funny if someone would say describe her as a blonde-headed bimbo who wants to be gang-raped by a group of skinheads. That kind of distasteful remark (that I find difficult even to write) is akin to the "humor" that spills forth from her mouth all the time and illicites embarassed titters from her mother. What a true joke of a human being!!!!

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 06:15:34 PM EST
    Can you actually not understand the difference between a public political pundit who has no power and Hitler, who had the power to kill 6 million Jews and loose the dogs of war that killed millions more?
    Not that I like the comparison between Hitler and Coulter (Hitler was more rational), but - When Hitler wrote "Mein Kampf" he was in prison with no more real power than Ann has now. Hate is hate.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 06:28:53 PM EST
    She should marry Michael Moore. They deserve each other. They're both nutzzzzzzz!!!!

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 07:52:16 PM EST
    Ann Coulter’s one-liners are weaker than the fiscal policy of the Carter administration. She is in no position to give advice or her opinion on social policy because every word out of her mouth other than “liberals” is beyond generic. Her below par traditionalist mentality is everything, but fascinating. I don’t know what is more insipid, Time publishing an article meant for cleaning up dog excrement or the fact that this woman still has a job, if you even want to call it that.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#43)
    by brian on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 07:53:20 PM EST
    Ann is a great American and a wonderful writer. If the loony left would get on track with the people of the U.S.A. we could make some good changes. Not all the right has to say is corect......but they are not as far from it as the looney left.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 08:26:28 PM EST
    Blair Kirkpatrick's remarks were the most intelligent. Her sick humor, which she tries to excuse with her pathetic, nervous laughter, seems to indicate serious mental illness. What has always upset and amazed me is the numerous venues which offer her visibility. That anyone would publish her writing is a sad commentary on the sickness and hatred which permeates today's society. and then we wonder why school children shoot each other up. When I was growing up, we saw girls like that as sick, sexual teases and it is sad that she is being exploited... the same way children wd have exploited such a child on the playground. So those who put her out there are irresponsible in that they are supposedly well, intelligent and mature adults.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 09:44:22 PM EST
    I was not shocked to see the Neo-Con Nazi Ann Coulter as the cover model of Time Magazine, especially after the magazine named a man who failed to report for his military physical so he can serve his time in Vietnam and finincially ruined every company he has been in charge of,who now holds the position of President of the United States, George W. Bush. What I am terrified of is the fact that Time Magazine would consider an individual like Ann Coulter, who speaks like a member of the Nazi Party in World War II. The unfortunate fact is her sentiments and opinions seem to be more and more common nowadays, it is frightening that the "Land of the Free" is becoming a mirror image of the land they were fleeing. I hope that the American people will wake up from their National, Facist dream before it is too late to recover.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 10:19:52 PM EST
    Terence writes - "Ann Coulter’s one-liners are weaker than the fiscal policy of the Carter administration." Not bad, but don't quit your day job. Allen - You make my point. Coulter isn't in jail, and will fade as her entertainment value fades. Sailette - Nice psychobabble. Have you ever even spoke with her?

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 10:44:38 PM EST
    You Dumocrats have proved once again that all you can do is hate, moan and groan and be sore losers. keep it up. We Republicans love as we are watching you hate your way right out of the White House once again in 2008.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 10:50:47 PM EST
    I see...the left finds a conservative woman to be nothing more than "legs"--interesting. She cannot be smart...she cannot have the right to have her own opinions...she must be a stupid blonde, right? (One may wonder if liberals really believe in the women's movement!) Perhaps Ms. Coulter is correct: liberals think they are the only intelligent people on the planet and the rest of us are stupid. Personally, I am sick and tired of liberals thinking they are the only ones allowed to have an opinion in politics and everyone else had better sit down (and in the case of conservative women cross their legs like good girls) and shut up! I think Ms. Coulter has done more to un-mask the liberal sexist, just has Dr. Rice has un-masked the bigots, in journalism and in politics today: they are alive and well in the Democratic Party!

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 11:07:16 PM EST
    to ppj: thank you, it has been some time since a "social-liberal" has questioned my understanding of events that have touched me and mine personally. I find this kind of personal attack, in what is supposed to be an open forum for public discussion, quite similar to the way that a conservative will question the level of education of his/her opponent when challenged publically. it is a shame that you were never taught to debate in a more mature and respectful manner. as a matter of fact I wrote my comment straight faced and meant every word of it. many of my family fled hittlers rage, my parents included, many others were victims of that rage. despite all evidence before me, discouraging me, I still hold out some faith in the human race, hoping that one does not have to relive the horrors of the past to understand them, and to work in a differnt direction. admitedly my experience and knowledge is second hand, passed down and related to me after the fact. the fact is that allen was right in stating that when hittler wrote mein kampf he had about as much influence as Coulter has ever had. hate is hate, no matter the source and evil is evil no matter the time. I can only hope that the evils that would drive one to call for more hatred, suffering and death will not consume the world again in my lifetime.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 11:49:13 PM EST
    Why isn't someone talking about Ann's sex change? She was a HE obviously. You can tell by looking at her adam's apple. It's time for her or his big mouth to tell it ALL.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 11:52:48 PM EST
    I heard that on Air America.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 12:57:57 AM EST
    I am certain that TL supports GLBT people, so that's why no one talks about her in those terms. It is enough that this person has several times said very evil and negative racist jokes and taunts for the hilarity of unamerican racists and their fake war on terror. Then Time magazine, which used to care about its reputation, tosses it out in order to fit a white supremacist on its front cover, as if her legs in white hose were what the swarthy hordes will need to see to recognize Amerikkkan autocracy. Jane Fonda's actions, even if she repudiates them, have NOTHING to do with Ann Coulter's expressions of hatred. There is no evidence that Fonda's actions changed anything either way. Coulter's hatred is hypernationalist nonsense, whereas Fonda was opposing the massive destruction of a people (ie. Genocide). Coulter is presenting an argument for genocide; in NO WAY was Fonda in any way doing that. She was doing the opposite.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#60)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 06:24:23 AM EST
    JO - Let me explain. Coulter's comments were pro American. Now you may not like them. I may think they are extreme. But, they were pro American and when stated expressed a generally held belief. They were regarded by most as a "cheerleader" type statement. Fonda's comments were anti American, delivered in the middle of a war in which thousands of Americans were being killed, and worse, delivered in the enemy's country while sitting on a SAM used to kill Americans. Her comments were obviously designed to aid the enemy, and to hurt the morale of our troops. I, and millions like me, will never forgive her. Your argument is that Coulter's statements will enrage the enemy and make them fight harder, thus increasing the danger to our military. So when the Left says things like...We must get out of Iraq...The War is unjust...The US government is cruel and unjust... You must agree that these statements improve the morale of the terrorists by making them think that they have supporters in the US, and that they can win if they just hang on. Have you made any such statements?

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#61)
    by michael on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 06:38:07 AM EST
    Ms. Coulter, for someone who likes to dish it out, needs to learn how to take it. Although I cannot abide her style or her politics, something about the article elicited a little bit of sympathy on my part for Ms. Coulter. She obviously has far more serious problems than just an abrasive personality. Could a 12 Step program or a little psychotherapy be in order?

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#62)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 06:38:19 AM EST
    Mr. Wolcott sounds as if his advances were spurned by Ms. Coulter

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#63)
    by Aaron on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 07:55:27 AM EST
    Sure, Jim, Coulter's comments were pro-American. Just like the bloviations of her hero, Joseph McCarthy. Doing stupid, destructive things in the name of being "pro-American" can be profoundly harmful to the nation.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#65)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 09:37:41 AM EST
    Jim, What are your criteria for defining "American" and "un-American" in the context of comments from Coulter and Fonda? I have a feeling that your argument here is circular and narrowly self-serving. I suggest that you see yourself as the sole guardian of all things American. Therefore, by definition anything that you disagree with is "un-American". In this particular context, any statement which questions America's right to aggressively intervene at will throughout the world is contrary to your definition of American-ness, therefore "un-American" QED. No?

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#66)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 09:49:07 AM EST
    This young woman Coulter needs to look at what she is doing, what she is saying. To those who know better it does not matter if her comments are made in jest, or whether she truly means her calls to war, her calls for Arab American internment, or the nuclear holocaust of the North Korean people. Her comments, bordering on fanaticism, are at best irresponsible, at worst hatemongering. Freedom of speech is a sacred thing, but lets not forget what one cleverly delivered speech can do. Dictators and mass murderers throughout the past century would seem to agree, proper use of the bully pulpit can rouse the people to do just about anything. In my view we can only hope and do what we can to ensure that this woman never occupies any office of authority in our lifetime, and remember that one must not hold office to hold great influence and power over a nation.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#67)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 09:58:11 AM EST
    a closing remark to ppj: Sincerely, no attempt was made on my part to close down political commentary on this woman, by my comments relating Ann Coulter to that man. My intention was to relate to others in a simple manner, for all to see, the depth of madness this nation is slipping toward. When we as a nation find that so many among us approve of such public hatemongering, even celebrate it, should we not look back upon the lessons of history and remember, and do not unto others? In my life I have watch this nation I love slip toward its demise. I can only hope that the American people come to their senses soon, sooner than later.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#68)
    by rob on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 10:18:28 AM EST
    The left cannot win at the ballot box, so character assination is always in good order. Ann is intelligent and also easy on the eyes.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#69)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 10:48:55 AM EST
    rob you just wanna "hit that", "easy on the eyes", guess it is in the eyes of the beholder, the _itch "is poison".

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#70)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 11:22:30 AM EST
    Sosumi writes - " The wrong blonde lost her life." Could you tell us why you cannot honor one without wishing death on the other? warblby writes - "My intention was to relate to others in a simple manner.." I think Americans are smart enough to understand well reasoned arguments. Name calling isn't one of them. BTW - Do you condem Ward Churchill's "Little Eichamans" comments? I mean you being so intense on not hurting someone's feelings and all. Ian - If you have problems seeing Fonda's actions and statements as un-American, then I can do nothing for you. As for your psycho babble, my favorite color is blue, and I love to fly.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#71)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 02:49:54 PM EST
    Jim, in full-on lying mode: "Coulter's comments were pro American." Coulter's comments were as anti-american as they come. What about "All men are created equal" don't you understand? What about freedom of religion don't you understand? What about the TREATIES we have signed, which are US LAW, that specifically protect the sovereignty of foreign nations, that you do not understand? You lie through your teeth, Jim, but you may just not be able to see your hypocrisy. If you keep on making such TOTAL LIES come out of your mouth, I may have to go back to pitying you. "Cheerleading." No, we don't consider making religious and racist slurs 'cheerleading.' It's called rabble-rousing; and Jim, and Rob, you are apparently rabble.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#73)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 05:00:16 PM EST
    "Ann is intelligent and also easy on the eyes." Funniest thing I've heard since learning SpongeBob was gay.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#74)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 05:38:23 PM EST
    PPJ - If youve ever disagreed strongly with Coulter about anything, youve never given any indications of at this site. Could it be you have some quiblings on points of emphasis; ie: she dosnt emphasize enough how commie and traitorous the "MSM" (every outlet but Fox,the Spectator,and NewsMax) is? Or, was it because she never followed through on her vow to throw herself, like a Hindu mendicant, under the wheels of Reagans funeral cortege? It may be, given the pervasive infestation of the mainstream media by the radical-left, too much to ask for all to display the same level of steely resolve and unfailing patriotism that you do.

    Re: John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the (none / 0) (#76)
    by jondee on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 06:28:22 PM EST
    A public figure with a ready made audience has a moral resonsibility in troubled times to refrain from making inflammatory statements and drawing half-baked, lurid caricatures of large groups of people that they dont know - unless thier chief function is as propagandists. As Auden said in 39' : "In the nightmare of the dark, all the dogs of europe bark - intellectual disgrace stares from every human face." He saw Coulter coming.

    John Cloud: Today's Most Dissed Person in the Blogosphere | 60 comments (60 topical)