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Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Detainees
Posted on Sun Jun 05, 2005 at 12:10:48 PM EST
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Senator Joe Biden this morning said the U.S. should close Guantanamo.

"This has become the greatest propaganda tool that exists for recruiting of terrorists around the world. And it is unnecessary to be in that position," said Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del.

Time Magazine today asks, What's going on at Gitmo?

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    Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo | 24 comments (24 topical)
    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    I wish the bird sanctuary idea would gain traction...

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#2)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    Its about getting the guys out of the camp and the eyes of the world. but the camp maybe getting opened for you soon.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#3)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    meanwhile, the executive director of Amnesty International had this to say today in an interview: " Despite highly publicized charges of U.S. mistreatment of prisoners at Guantanamo, the head of the Amnesty International USA said on Sunday the group doesn’t “know for sure” that the military is running a “gulag.” Executive Director William Schulz said Amnesty, often cited worldwide for documenting human rights abuses, also did not know whether Secretary Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld approved severe torture methods such as beatings and starvation. Schulz recently dubbed Rumsfeld an “apparent high-level architect of torture” in asserting he approved interrogation methods that violated international law. “It would be fascinating to find out. I have no idea,” Schulz told “Fox News Sunday.” " Gee, almost as if they figured no one would dare ask them for proof, and they had no idea what to say when someone did. Exit stage left Amnesty International, trailing their shredded credibility. Too bad too - they used to be a valuable organization.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    Boy oh boy, could the ten-ton monolith have begun to roll down the hill? Blagh's even gotten into the act with his "Join the C.A.I.G. Party" Campaign...he's going to become an "agitator," in the words of Seinfeld's landlord Silvio...and Bush will be dancing for nickels, if not for a lap dance from Turk... Everyone, get involved...do something...take your thumbs out of your butts...or do you want another four, perhaps twelve years of Bush?

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    It really doesn't matter whats happening at Gitmo, the rightwing and it's cheerleaders will find a way to justify it. Honestly folks, do you really think the rightwingers would be sitting idly by if any of this crap was happening on a Democratic watch? It's all about the fact that this is their guy, and their time, and they're not going to let anyone steal their thunder with truthful accusations of grave misconduct.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    But Fenria, just take one minute and think for a second, 'cause Blagh is Bush-obsessed and it only occurred to him this morning - Hasn't there been a slight, even hardly-noticeable shift in the way the Bushies are dealing with the media and the way the media is dealing with them? Newsweek, first and foremost case: When the Rather-gate docs were blown up, the 'cons ran all the way to the bank (and the polls!) with them, and they tried to do the same with Newsweek... Sure, they got their pound of flesh, but then a strange thing happened - instead of trying to justify the Newsweek story, as they had with Rather-gate, the bloggers got to work and started tying other stories (from the govt's own reports, no less), and the 'cons were stopped dead in their tracks...there was too much out there, like Myers and Karzai, stooge of all stooges, throwing the "incitement" charge right back at Bush and his little poodle McClellan - to this tune, people - the Bushies are now on the defensive(does McClellan trying to backpedal from his "people died because of Newsweek poop-up ring a bell?), and with their own "they're just isolated Koran abuses" sop, they have just admitted what the faulty Newsweek piece alleged, in other incidents... And now the press, having initially cringed, expecting to be pummelled over Newsweek, has looked around and smells blood... Which is why Blagh is going to start grinding his own personal axe about Maher Arar...if there's anything in this affair to trip up the mighty Prez, this blogger's going after it... So Fenria, chin up...sometimes it looks darkest before dawn...

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#7)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    Gee, almost as if they figured no one would dare ask them for proof, and they had no idea what to say when someone did. Funny, I've been thinking the same thing about the administration's claim of weapons of mass destruction (or the program related activities).

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    Exactly...but DP, the chicken-sh*t Senators and Congressmen won't be able to hold a groundswell of popular support for investigation, if not impeachment of Bush's war crimes...do you think the Republicans wanted to impeach Nixon in '73? Blagh'll answer that for you - hell no... So, we can all sit back (and yes, PPJ, Blagh is saying "we," because you were the other day when you asked Blagh what he was personally doing for humanity - answer: Just watch...) and say, "They won't vote to impeach," or do we find a couple of guys up there with the balini's to start the ball rolling... Or we can sit back and complain...for another four years....

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#9)
    by Randinho on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    Anyone wondering why James Robertson did not post a link to the comments he just quoted please raise your hands. Thank you. Here's the link and here's why he didn't post it: The U.S. military on Friday released details about five cases top officials said were among only 10 reported over the course of more than 28,000 prisoner interrogations. Schulz said, "We don't know for sure what all is happening at Guantanamo and our whole point is that the United States ought to allow independent human rights organizations to investigate."

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#10)
    by Randinho on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    [I actually hit the post button too soon TL. Please delete the previous post.] Anyone wondering why James Robertson did not post a link to the comments he just quoted please raise your hands. Thank you. Here's the link and here's why he didn't post it:
    The U.S. military on Friday released details about five cases top officials said were among only 10 reported over the course of more than 28,000 prisoner interrogations. Schulz said, "We don't know for sure what all is happening at Guantanamo and our whole point is that the United States ought to allow independent human rights organizations to investigate." [my emphasis]
    Next time perhaps you might want to consider telling the entire story James. Telling half-truths just makes you look intellectually dishonest.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    Shorter James Robertson: AI calling attention to human rights abuses of the old Soviet Empire = Good AI calling attention to human rights abuses of the current U.S. Empire = Baaaad.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#12)
    by Darryl Pearce on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    Well, Martin Luther King Jr told Nichelle Nichols to keep working on Star Trek because even though her character was a set piece, she was a black set piece. When push came to shove on the Iraq invasion/occupation, I didn't fall for the exaggeration of dangerous or the make-believe united crime underworld... I stood on the street corner protesting for peace. Being threatened with harm by my own countrymen inspired me to lose 50 pounds and get back into shape. I'm here.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#13)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:43 PM EST
    nice straw man. One, I didn't post the link because I hit post too soon. Two, note that further down he admitted that he had no idea whether any international observors had been there or not. meaning, they did no research at all. They posted opinion as fact. Kind of like Eason Jordan and Linda Foley...

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#14)
    by Randinho on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:43 PM EST
    Nice try, Jimbo. I also hit the post button too soon, but I corrected it. You could have if that's what happened. No strawman here. You chose to omit their larger point simply because it did not serve your purpose. That's the very definition of intellectual dishonesty.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#15)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:43 PM EST
    They had no larger point. Their larger point was "gosh gee golly, we had no evidence, but we really, really wanted to believe this". And TL, along with much of the left, is willing to believe the word of terrorists before they'll believe the word of the US military.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#16)
    by Randinho on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:43 PM EST
    I'll type this slowly so you understand since italics mean nothing to you: "Our whole point is that the United States ought to allow independent human rights organizations to investigate." And indeed that is the problem. No one knows exactly what's going on there because this administration feels it has to answer to no one. Secretive behavior is starnge behavior for someone with nothing to hide. Shorter James Robertson: Nothing is true unless I say so.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#17)
    by jarober on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:43 PM EST
    Nice try Randy. The part you omitted: "Schulz said, "We don't know for sure what all is happening at Guantanamo and our whole point is that the United States ought to allow independent human rights organizations to investigate." He also said he had "absolutely no idea" whether the International Red Cross had been given access to all prisoners and said the group feared others were being held at secret facilities or locations. " Which part of "absolutely no idea" is unclear to you? Amnesty didn't look into this; they did no research; they didn't contact the Red Cross or the government. But hey - why should they have to do something complex like a Google search: Red Cross Visits to Gitmo The relevant bit: "The ICRC's work at Guantanamo Bay Geneva (ICRC) - The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has been regularly visiting the US detention facility at Guantanamo Bay since early 2002 for the purpose of monitoring that persons held there are treated in accordance with applicable international laws and standards. It also enables those detained at Guantanamo Bay to remain in contact with their families by means of Red Cross messages." Amnesty Intl: "We have no idea what's going on there, we refuse to ask anyone, so instead we just threw our political opinions out and called it a report" Shorter Randy: "If it makes the US look bad, I'll believe anything" You want to get upset about bad acts? get upset over the Padilla case. That's worrisome, and something that you, TL, and the rest of the left spend virtually no time on. You would rather make vapid political points (the same stupid tactics Ann Coulter uses from her side), and pay no attention to the real problems.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#18)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:43 PM EST
    Blag - Impeach? Good heavens, what have you been doing for the past few days? Randy P - Five! Great gobs of goose greese. Quick Mama, grab the guns and raise the drawbridge. We have insulted 5 people who are trying to kill us. How dare us!

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:43 PM EST
    James, why is it you PRETEND that you don't understand the word "all"? "He also said he had "absolutely no idea" whether the International Red Cross had been given access to all prisoners and said the group feared others were being held at secret facilities or locations." And yet you try to make that into the RIDICULOUS claim that AI doesn't 'know' whether the Red Cross has had (some) access. It really is sad to see you lie that way. The DoD ADMITS that some prisoners have been hidden from the IRC. Some could equal HUNDREDS. The IAEA hasn't been allowed to investigate the looting of nuclear materials in Iraq. Why not? The fact is that the Bush Cartel has blocked any real investigation into its MANY treasonous crimes against the Republic. Once they have been removed from power, by whatever means, the investigations will occur. And then you can proceed with the rest of your life, you LIES exposed. Bush's lies have already been exposed, in spades. But you cover for his treason.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#20)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:44 PM EST
    PIL "And yet you try to make that into the RIDICULOUS claim that AI doesn't 'know' whether the Red Cross has had (some) access." Huh? Did you even read the comment? Schultz is admitting they don't know, but wants... He then says he doesn't know if the IRC had access to all.... And he never will know, or will he ever be satisified. So what? That's called rhetorical positioning to prime the donation pumps. Not to mention help the political party of his choice. BTW - You keep throwing the word "treason" around. Treason has some very specific actions tied to it, and for good reasons. If words start to mean whatever someone wants them to mean, then the system will truly be broke and we all should worry abouut the Republic.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:45 PM EST
    Troll Jim also is unable to do the harshly-difficult grammar of fitting the word 'all' into the sentence. What a flipping suprise.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#22)
    by Randinho on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:47 PM EST
    Jimbo, You're still ignoring the larger point which is that without independent access to ALL no one can be certain how prisoners are being treated which leads to the question that no one guzzling the Bush Kool-Aid in the volume that you, Richard Aubrey and PPJ are guzzling it is acknowledging: If there is nothing to hide, why are people being hidden?

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#23)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:47 PM EST
    RP and PIL PIL, you can be my Secretary. Do you pick up cleaning? RP - The IRC has visited. AI is unhappy. Surprise, surprise.

    Re: Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo (none / 0) (#24)
    by ppjakajim on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 12:59:47 PM EST
    PIL and RP - This link's for you.

    Biden Calls for Closure of Guantanamo | 24 comments (24 topical)