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LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members

By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 09:03:50 AM EST
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Apparently, it doesn't just take a village to dismantle an LA street gang, it takes 900 state and federal agents. LA Police Chief Bill Bratton held a press conference at 5:00 a.m. (PT) today to announce the results of Operation Silent Night, in which 900 law enforcement agents arrested 19 of the 43 members (so far) of the Vineland Boyz gang in Los Angeles and surrounding communities. The gang is believed by police to be responsible for two murders of police officers, one in 1988 and 2003.

LAPD Chief William Bratton called the gang a "modern-day Mafia." The Vineland Boyz gang is a criminal organization, "involved in drug trafficking, murders, attempted murders and extortion," Bratton said.
Bratton said Tuesday's operation was the culmination of an 18-month investigation.

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    LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members | 29 comments (29 topical)
    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:18 PM EST
    God forbid we legalize drugs and take away the revenue stream from street gangs. 900 agents of the state...that's enough to make any civil libertarian nervous.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#2)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:18 PM EST
    Yep, they should have used 10 agents, that way shots could have been fired.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#3)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    kdog, Think. "Legalize drugs and take away the revenue stream from street gangs." Then all they'll have left is, well, murders, attempted murders and extortion. I used to live near Vineland and the 101 freeway. My wife and I dealt with all the crime there for years, but the day after two stray bullets from a gang fight lodged themselves in the wall of our apartment, we fled. It is repulsive to me that anyone would denigrate the LAPD for removing these murdering thugs from our streets.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    I didn't denigrate the LAPD, just said 900 agents on the street made me nervous. I've got no qualms with murderers facing justice. Guns and ammo cost money sarc, gangs sell drugs to make money to buy guns. Take away their cash-cow. Street violence can only decrease.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#6)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    kdog, if you think they would not find another criminal activity to become their "cash cow" (like extortion, theft, etc.), well, I don't know what to say to you. The denigration comment was directed mostly at TL - "Apparently, it doesn't just take a village to dismantle an LA street gang, it takes 900 state and federal agents." Repulsive.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    Sarcastic - I did not denigrate the LAPD - I'm a big fan of Bill Bratton -He's a friend of mine, as is his wife, Rikki Klieman. Do a search on talkleft for him and you'll see.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    I'm sure they would sarc, but nothing nearly as lucrative as drugs. It's a start. Isn't making the work of a criminal enterprise more difficult a worthwhile proposition?

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#9)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    “if you think they would not find another criminal activity to become their "cash cow" (like extortion, theft, etc.), well, I don't know what to say to you.” Extortion and theft are hardly markets; I think you drastically overestimate the profitability/risk. Drugs are relatively easy as there is a benefit to all participants; a willing exchange of money for a product.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#10)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    TL, No you didn't objectively denigrate the LAPD, but that was clearly your intent. All one has to do is look at the reporting. Please. Your intent and bias are clear, to say otherwise is disingenuous.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#11)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    TL - Fair enough re: the LAPD. But you're killing me on this one. I just now realized that you were commenting on the state and federal agents, not the LAPD. Was it your intent to denigrate them? I hope not, but it sure sounds that way... kdog - you said "Take away their cash-cow [drug trafficking]. Street violence can only decrease." In my book more extortion and more theft, etc., is more street violence, not less, and it's primarily directed at, presumably, people who are not engaged in criminal activities.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#12)
    by DawesFred60 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    What a joke, 900 cops going after 19 gang guys, but for your info, most are new gang members and likely setup by the real gang guys. many cops on the L.A.P.D, Are members of other gangs. life moves on inside the empire, sad,sad, world. you are next gang members, and anyone can and will be called a gang member in the coming round-up's.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    Sarc...see pigwiggles comment. It's a lot easier to catch, try, and convict extortionists and common thieves. Reason being there is a victim who will report those crimes. Drug dealing is done with willing participants, and more difficult to stop.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    I mean, the war on drugs is around 40 yrs. old and I can get almost any drug you would want delivered within the hour, with little risk to buyer or seller.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#15)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    Murder has been illegal for more than 40 years, and yet, people still kill other people. I guess we should end that prohibition as well.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#16)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    kdog - my answer to pw is the same as to you. Is it your contention that absent the "easy" money of drug trafficking, the gang bangers will, in general, abandon their "in the fast lane" life-styles, and become steady-eddie 9 to 5'rs?

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#17)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    TL - I don't expect you to respond, although I wish you would. The article you linked to speaks of "900 local and federal law enforcement officers." I assume "local" means LAPD. You wrote, however, "900 state and federal agents." Do you have some information that we're not privvy to? Or did you make a mistake?

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#19)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    "Just give 'em more liquor stores and dirty coke! That's what God recommends."

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#20)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:20 PM EST
    DA, We've had this conversation before, but is this your understanding of Dutch law? If so, it looks a lot like California law. Additionally, I can show you government web sites which have conflicting information about heroin addiction rates in the Netherlands. Also there is information out there that Alaska had triple the use of marijuana when they legalized it in the 70's. You believe what you want to based on what you see and read, and I'll believe what I do. My beliefs are based more on my experience of what is true than what people tell me is true. IMO, most crime is committed bu people under the influence of ALCOHOL and drugs. In fact where I work, we consider the medical baseline for people medically cleared to be positive for alcohol, marijuana and amphetamines. These people are not committing crimes to get drugs, they are committing crimes while under the influence of drugs. I do not know what the actual heroin addiction rates for the Netherlands are, (Who does one believe?). I believe they still have a drug problem and that their solution is no actual solution at all, just a different way to address the problem. As it stands, drugs are illegal in the U.S. and I believe that is currently good policy.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    The government is making a killing off of the war on drugs while simultaneously keeping down the dissenting voices by locking them up for drug crimes. Patrick, check out what happened to violence in america during alcohol prohibition- creating a black market brings with it gang type behavior. and besides, if we really got rid of all drugs people would just drink sterno and huff ether to get high. Would you rather your kid smoke pot or drink sterno Patrick?

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    As an Angelino, I support Bratton. He has had a good corrective effect on the LAPD, but that isn't to say that the LAPD is somehow purified. Those 900 officers were only vaguely under Bratton's control, and included quite a few LA County Sheriffs, who are famous here for violating the law, so this event isn't directly about Bratton, though I'm sure there is much for him to take credit for, in restraining the other agencies. Bratton also held the LAPD back from attacking peaceful protesters in the MANY nonviolent street protests we have had over the last several years (there have been some incidents, to be sure). There are still a lot of problems, and problem cops. Furthermore, I agree that putting a 900 officer task force on the ground in the barrio is inherently problematic, especially as we don't have clarification of whether the Homeland Security agency or "anti-terrorism" funds were involved. I don't agree that 'pot' and Sterno are comparable in any way, except that neither are dangerous drugs like methamphetamine. This major news event does in part explain why Senator Boxer sent me this today: "I recently joined almost 30 of my Senate colleagues in cosponsoring the Combat Meth Act of 2005, S.103, authored by Senator Jim Talent (R-MO)."

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    I live in the middle of meth lab nevada. I also do not like the speed, it eats a lot of it's users... But there are other ways to get high that are less safe even than meth. And history shows that the masses will be getting loaded forever. What is wrong with acknowledging that?

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#25)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    v2marty, Even if everything you say is absolutely true, and if alcohol prohibition was the sole cause behind the increase in violence, it was still the right thing to do at the time. For the sake of argument, I agree that people will do whatever they can to get high and that no amount of legislation is going to end the demand for drugs, but that is not tacit agreement that drugs should be legalized, merely an acknowledgement that there has to be an approach which seeks to strike a balance with the protection of society on one side and the desire of people to be free in their choices on the other. You figure that out and you'll be rich. Personally, I'm glad they had 900 officers available to them. That's a pipe dream where I work. But overwhelming numbers have always been a good tactic to avoid the use of violence. One on one, a person may fight, but against odds like that, even if they fight, flee, ect, there is little chance of them getting away.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#26)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    Patrick, the differences between California and Holland is that MJ is sold in cafes out in the open, which is quite a different practice than the medical MJ procedures in CA which are still technically illegal under Federal law.
    Are you from California? I mean, come on! There are cannabis "clinics" in just about every neighborhood. They are technically illegal as are the ones in Holland but there is little or no enforcement/regulation of them. That's almost identical. I thought you were posting from California.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#27)
    by Patrick on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    In fact, California allows 6 mature plants and 8 ounces of bud, not shake, bud, per person, which is even MORE liberal than Holland no? According to the California Attorney Gneral (I used to know the opinion #) Hashish is treated the same as regular marijuana (Which makes sense to me anyway) so that 8 ounces can be hashish too.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#28)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:21 PM EST
    All hail the Dutch! "Hence the [Dutch] soft drug policy, by failing to address the issue of supply, has made Holland the main centre for hard drug trafficking in Europe." "The Netherlands is seen as the largest source of Ecstasy for the United States and the rest of the world." Also, I'd like to see a factual causal link between Dutch liberalized drug policies and any lower usage rates they might be experiencing. For example, "An experiment in Zurich, Switzerland to allow sale and use of narcotics in designated areas was abandoned as a failure because of the increase in the addiction rate and related health issues." I suspect that any lower usage rates in the Netherlands is due to: 1) "The Netherlands has extensive demand reduction programs", and 2) that "The Dutch being sober and pragmatic people" generally shy away from drugs. Culturally, they are much different than the US.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:22 PM EST
    One thing I've noticed reading Talk Left is that many of you - including Libertarians, Liberals, Centrists, and even a couple of Conservatives are all in favor of legalizing Pot. As many of you know, I disagree, although I believe that our legal and punitive focus requires wholesale reform in the matter. But for the sake of the focus of this thread, Marijuana is not Crystal Meth is not Cocaine is not Crack is not Heroin is not "Extacy" etc. I would hope that none but the Libertarians would argue in favor of the legalization of Crack; therefore, the revenue streams on the black market would remain quite lucrative even in a Corporate marketed Reefer Nation. Decrease hopelessness and economic disparity, increase access to quality jobs and education, and decrease street violence / drug abuse.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:22 PM EST
    "But there are other ways to get high that are less safe even than meth. And history shows that the masses will be getting loaded forever. What is wrong with acknowledging that?" The claim that there will always be meth is an argument that since meth is dangerous (because it is so addictive), it should be tolerated. The use of meth is deadly dangerous to all sorts of people, like the neighbors of labs, or the millions in burgled automobiles. None of that sort of chaos occurs from cannabis use or growing. It does grow, happily, just about anywhere. People can fairly easily reduce the potency to their preference. Plenty of stable people use it, and it isn't directly connected to any major problem, like meth is. One reason why may be derived from considering that cannabis is in the HOPS family, as in BEER. Hops are a sedative. Meth is not sedative, whatever else it is.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#32)
    by pigwiggle on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:22 PM EST
    SU- You are right that likely more folks will use MJ if legal; he!!, if MJ were legal I would use it. The only reason I don’t is the fear of loosing my security clearance and funding. But look, if you are worried about ‘secondary’ crime from a legal drug market, that is where efforts should be focused; i.e. punish property crimes, pull welfare funding, etc. Clearly some folks can use illicit drugs in a responsible fashion; I used meth to study for exams in college and smoked MJ nearly every day of my schooling for a BS in Chemistry and a BS in Mathematics. The only illegal activity surrounding my MJ habit was the sale, purchase, and use. Like most folks who try meth I didn’t become an addict, and if I were to form an addiction I guarantee I have the force of will to not use. My point; it is unconscionable to restrict the liberty of an entire population because of the irresponsible actions of some. I suppose I could make the more pragmatic point. There is a thriving drug market with supply responding to demand. The DEA and ONDCP have documented this themselves; drug busts have very little effect on the market, but rather, drug busts reflect the volume of the market. Mutually beneficial trade is a very old and very strong phenomenon. As I’ve said before; like bugs on the freeway, smashed against my windshield convinced they are slowing the progress of my car, so are the drug warriors fighting capitalism.

    Re: LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 01:00:24 PM EST
    Pig: "Like most folks who try meth I didn’t become an addict, and if I were to form an addiction I guarantee I have the force of will to not use." Like most folks? There's a claim in search of some sort of fact to stand on. The point of meth's highly-addictive character is that VULNERABLE individuals become easily addicted to what it does for their neurotic personalities. You have only to look at the bodybuilder crowd to see why these people use addictive drugs like steroids. It feeds a primal need. Meth feeds a primal need for speed -- not to stay up and study, which I did without those 'aids' -- but to foster psychotic ideation about being superhuman and therefore above, morally, the slower creatures that a meth-head preys upon. Addictive personalities is the issue. There are some addictive personalities who use cannabis and shouldn't. It doesn't turn them into violent, hyperactive criminals. It makes them dysfunctional - -and when they see a professional, they are induced to quit for their own good. Since the cannabis isn't addictive in itself, that isn't so hard. Addictive personalities of a certain antisocial type LOVE meth, and form their worldview around the drug in a way that justifies a whole range of TANGIBLE criminal activity, such as rapes, murders, robberies, carjacking, and blowing up neighborhoods where their labs were.

    LA: 900 Agents Arrest 19 Gang Members | 29 comments (29 topical)